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Topic : 06/12 Teacher Sex Scandal, Part 1

Number of Replies: 352
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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 03:01:39 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 11/01/07) Dr. Phil explores a disturbing trend: Female teachers engaging in sex acts with their underage male students. The number of accusations has doubled in the past five years. You've probably heard of famous cases like Mary Kay Letourneau, and Debra LaFave and the recent case of a teacher in Southern California, Meredith Johnson Vincent, who was arrested on suspicion of having a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old boy. Dr. Phil meets one teacher who has chosen to fight back. Joelle Ogletree was a respected high school French teacher until she was accused of sexual misconduct by three of her students. Find out what goes through a mother's head as she faces 160 years in prison. Plus, the Dr. Phil show speaks with one of the boys who says the sexual improprieties absolutely did happen and claims he passed a polygraph examination. When he agrees to take another test for Dr. Phil, what do his answers reveal? Joelle has been banned from even volunteering at her daughter's school because of the accusations. Should she be allowed back in the classroom? Watch and decide: Do you believe her ... or her students? Tell us what you think!

Find out what happened on the show.

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June 14, 2008, 7:54 am CDT

Why does the school board continue?

Quote From: ramair

now that I've watched the fourth boy, who also failed the polygraph examination Dr Phil arranged for him, I'm strongly convinced of Joelle's innocence. Having thus been cleared, I can't understand why she hasn't been reinstated. What's keeping the school district from reinstating her? "Carry-it-with-them-to-the-grave" pride? Fear of "eating crow" and admitting they acted too hastily? I consider their refusal to reinstate Joelle a "face saving" gesture that just makes them look stupid. Yes, if Joelle's credentials are reinstated, returning to the classroom might feel awkward. But, she seems like a classy, confident woman who can handle it. It should be her decision.
It never ceases to amaze me when government entities have been proven wrong they still persist in their original views despite the evidence. How long, after people have been completely exonerated have prosecutors continued to state they thought those people were guilty. The most recent example was the Duke LaCross case in North Carolina, where the prosecutor absolutely refused to even look at evidence of innocence that was brought to them by the defense lawyers. I think she should get her license back and teaching in the same school would be the kind of vindication she should be entitled to. If I were her, however, she should never allow herself to be alone with any male students, she ought to install a hidden camera in her classroom, never give a child a ride home without her husband being in the car, never have students to her home for any reason and never, ever gi ve a child a note of any kind. If she needed to do that she should mail it or e-mail to the parents. I would almost suggest she wear a burqua to class, but then they would run her out of town for being a muslim.
 
June 14, 2008, 11:53 am CDT

Agreed!

Quote From: spgfld1903

I feel sorry for the teacher...I NEVER go out on a limb and say "i'm sure"  but this time I just feel it. After watching both shows...i feel the kids not totally truthful. one recanted..one is less than honest/and the one that was on the show..i think a very small part of what he said was true....maybe  im wrong...but thats the way i see it.

I wasn't there, so, like you, I cannot say "I'm sure".  Had I been on a jury with this case, I'd have to vote not guilty.  I don't believe the boys' stories.  I think Joelle was foolish and immature, very unprofessional, but I don't live in Glen Rose...this is a New Yorkers mentality.  Small towns often do get a little too familiar.  Everyone knew the man she married had been her teacher, and is a good bit older than she.  Truthfully, that is nobody's business, yet in a small town, everyone knows your business. 

What got to me was that the entire community, including the school administration had no issues with Joelle's conduct until the bomb was dropped.  If they truly found it so offensive, why allow it to continue?

Obviously it was not so atypical, until the male egos took over and suddenly, the town was up in arms. 

I feel it myself, she was railroaded.

 
June 14, 2008, 8:22 pm CDT

have you ever heard of False Memory Syndrome?????

Quote From: jokr8790

 There is a reason polygraph evidence is inadmissabile in a court of law. They have been deemed too unreliable without any evidence to support their scientific validity.  More importantly, the courts, absolutely correctly, in my opinion did not want a trier of fact substituting the results of a polygraph for their own  view of the evidence, i.e.  essentially letting the machine decide the credibility of a witness. Having said that, did you observe the young man when he was telling his version of what occurred. He was unable to look at her directly, his eyes kept blinking rapidly and most importantly, she exposed him in major contradictions of what he had said earlier. The fact is though, I think Dr. Phil should have reviewed the transcripts andthe evidence for himself so he could confront the young man with these issues. Again, her demeanor during the show did not bother me. She has been living with these allegations for years and by now must be pretty weary of them. If she was hearing about them for the first time and showed no emotion, then I would be suspicious. I think she was extraordinarily foolish in her interactions with these boys, but innocent people do foolish things without thinking about them which only later become suspicious.  What worries me here is the tendency of a number of people on this post to presume guilt by nature of the accusations, instead of presuming innocence which is the hallmark and shining light of American justice. I believe except for England and Canada, and unfortunately England I believe has abolished the right to silence, America is unique in its unwavering historical adherence to that principle with some notable exceptions. Sooner or later though we always return to that bedrock principle to prevent miscarriages of justice and thank God we do.

Has it been that long that we have forgotten about the witch hunts of the 80's and 90's???  Can we forget the private agenda's of the misguided therapist (or the sudo-therapists)?  THE DRAMA?  Can we scream False Memory Syndrome?   Could this be someone seeking attention?  Or is this someone who is the product of poor mental health therapy? 

 

What is so unclear here?  These boys lied, and now one stands alone.  This young man may have created this lie on his own, or with the help of others, but he is now trapped in this wicked web.  How does one get themselves out of this mess?  Are they strong enough to admit their mistake?  Generally....NO.  Because generally, when someone who has created and lived this lie for so many months (or years), will not recant.  Then they would have to admit to themselves and all of their misguided enablers, they were wrong, or worse, they lied.   

 

I ask and I wonder:

Was this young man, who is standing his ground, ever treated for emotional problems? 

Has he basically been a good person, needing an excuse for his current or past bad behavior? 

Has he received repressed memory therapy?

What do his parents say about this accusation?  What has been their actions to these accusations of abuse toward their son? Why were they not supporting him during this very public proof against his allegation (the last program with the polygraph)? 

 

False Memory Syndrome.   Here in the year 2008, this horrible syndrome still exists.  Oh yes, it was hesitated for awhile because of the many lawsuits against the accusers and their therapists, but it is quite apparent, this beast is breathing again. 

 

The truth is boring, there is no drama.   When you have been falsely accused, the court of public opinion, and lets face it, the authorities, do not always care about the truth.  Polygraphs are used because they are respected.  They are respected when administered by examiners who are trusted and respected for their professionalism.  These test are more than less, the truth.  And that is why you find that they are still widely used by many authority professionals.

 

These young men lied.  They are now faced with the fact they they must admit this.  The final young man is truly troubled.   He is not facing reality, or is so dishonest, that he does not cares about the consequences of his actions.  There are so many victims of false allegations....so many! 

 

Be careful of this beast (false memory syndrome).  Accusations such as these, can and do, cause the death of a living child....

 

I applaud the teacher for her bravery.  This is a horrible experience to have to endure, not only for her, but for all of those who love and support her.  

 

 

 

 

 
June 17, 2008, 12:17 am CDT

Simply Ridiculous

Dr. Phil,

 

It really bothers me when people say (and you're one of them),  "Your reaction to these accusations from these boys just doesn't seem right.  You seem so bland about it."

 

Give me a break!  If people don't react to tragedy the way we're expected, we get criticized.  I'm not a crier and have never been one, not even when my dear father died at a young age.  Should I squeeze out tears and fake it because that's how most people react to a loved one's death and YOU expect me to, as well?

 

That teacher had been dealing with this problem for more than 6 years.  No wonder she may not be as angry as she may have been when it first happened.  You owe her an apology!!!

 
June 19, 2008, 2:26 pm CDT

06/12 Teacher Sex Scandal, Part 1

Quote From: jokr8790

It never ceases to amaze me when government entities have been proven wrong they still persist in their original views despite the evidence. How long, after people have been completely exonerated have prosecutors continued to state they thought those people were guilty. The most recent example was the Duke LaCross case in North Carolina, where the prosecutor absolutely refused to even look at evidence of innocence that was brought to them by the defense lawyers. I think she should get her license back and teaching in the same school would be the kind of vindication she should be entitled to. If I were her, however, she should never allow herself to be alone with any male students, she ought to install a hidden camera in her classroom, never give a child a ride home without her husband being in the car, never have students to her home for any reason and never, ever gi ve a child a note of any kind. If she needed to do that she should mail it or e-mail to the parents. I would almost suggest she wear a burqua to class, but then they would run her out of town for being a muslim.
That "Duke LaCross" prosecutor got himself in a heap of trouble, didn't he?
Anyway, it seems a waste of good teaching skills to continue denying Joelle reinstatement. She seems far more intelligent than many of the teachers I've had as customers while working for Wal-Mart.
I had one who didn't know how many inches were in two yards of fabric. A teacher couldn't add multiply 36 by 2? Pitiful.
And, another couldn't tell that, if a thick roll of ribbon didn't have six yards left on it, a much thinner roll wouldn't, either. Great Caesar's ghost!
 
June 19, 2008, 2:48 pm CDT

06/12 Teacher Sex Scandal, Part 1

Quote From: jokr8790

 There is a reason polygraph evidence is inadmissabile in a court of law. They have been deemed too unreliable without any evidence to support their scientific validity.  More importantly, the courts, absolutely correctly, in my opinion did not want a trier of fact substituting the results of a polygraph for their own  view of the evidence, i.e.  essentially letting the machine decide the credibility of a witness. Having said that, did you observe the young man when he was telling his version of what occurred. He was unable to look at her directly, his eyes kept blinking rapidly and most importantly, she exposed him in major contradictions of what he had said earlier. The fact is though, I think Dr. Phil should have reviewed the transcripts andthe evidence for himself so he could confront the young man with these issues. Again, her demeanor during the show did not bother me. She has been living with these allegations for years and by now must be pretty weary of them. If she was hearing about them for the first time and showed no emotion, then I would be suspicious. I think she was extraordinarily foolish in her interactions with these boys, but innocent people do foolish things without thinking about them which only later become suspicious.  What worries me here is the tendency of a number of people on this post to presume guilt by nature of the accusations, instead of presuming innocence which is the hallmark and shining light of American justice. I believe except for England and Canada, and unfortunately England I believe has abolished the right to silence, America is unique in its unwavering historical adherence to that principle with some notable exceptions. Sooner or later though we always return to that bedrock principle to prevent miscarriages of justice and thank God we do.
Dr Phil relies quite heavily on polygraphs. Not sure how accurate these polygraphs are, but they do measure certain bodily responses while the examinees are answering questions. It's these responses that guide the examiner in assessing  the veracity of an examinee's responses. Body language, as you noticed in Matt, is another guide in determining someone's veracity. Matt's demeanor suggested that he was lying. Joelle's was that of someone confident of her innocence.
 
June 19, 2008, 3:00 pm CDT

Shame on you Dr. Phil!

I just finished watching the teacher sex scandal (well actually still watching it -so upset I had to type this message first) and I cant believe you told the teacher how SHE should feel. After she heard what the boy on the phone had to say and you asked her how she felt about his answers, she was explaining to you the facts (according to her) but you interuppted her and said "I cant believe your not upset right now, if it were me I would be so upset !"  This didnt happen yesterday dr. phil!  This has been going on for some time and I am sure at this point she is not so MAD anymore! You have to let the anger go at some point and just tell your side of the story and not be intuerrupted on how you should feel! She already mentioned what this has done to her family which included sleepless nights and as if getting angry would just prove to US she is innocent. Come on!  Let people tell their stores and dont interrupt them on how they should be feeling or how they should react!  This wasnt the first time she has heard this kid tell his side......       
 
June 20, 2008, 12:23 pm CDT

06/12 Teacher Sex Scandal, Part 1

Quote From: pattyl78

I just finished watching the teacher sex scandal (well actually still watching it -so upset I had to type this message first) and I cant believe you told the teacher how SHE should feel. After she heard what the boy on the phone had to say and you asked her how she felt about his answers, she was explaining to you the facts (according to her) but you interuppted her and said "I cant believe your not upset right now, if it were me I would be so upset !"  This didnt happen yesterday dr. phil!  This has been going on for some time and I am sure at this point she is not so MAD anymore! You have to let the anger go at some point and just tell your side of the story and not be intuerrupted on how you should feel! She already mentioned what this has done to her family which included sleepless nights and as if getting angry would just prove to US she is innocent. Come on!  Let people tell their stores and dont interrupt them on how they should be feeling or how they should react!  This wasnt the first time she has heard this kid tell his side......       
Dr Phil's questioning Joelle's demeanor disturbed quite a few of us, including me. As if there's something "wrong" with a calm demeanor. He seemed almost disappointed that she wouldn't go into a histrionic melt-down. And, for what? Ratings? Am I the only one? Or, does he seem awfully "ratings-conscious" these days. 
 
June 20, 2008, 1:11 pm CDT

You are right

Quote From: michelle212

There might be the odd truly innocent teenage boy in this part of the world, but because of TV and movies, MOST teenage boys are DYING to have sex sex sex, and they would LOVE it if a beautiful experienced woman wanted to teach them the ropes.  They love it!  They want it!  They only start crying about it when their Mom finds out and tells them that they must act all traumatized about it so they can get some money by suing the school or the teacher.  There isn't one normal healthy teenage boy who will be permanently traumatized by a lovely older woman teaching him how to be a man.  They want it!  They all want sex, and they know it's better with an experienced older woman.  (Rather than trying to beg their little 14-year-old girl friends to do it.) They aren't traumatized in any way, they want MORE, and they want to tell all their friends about it.  It's the greatest thing in their lives, until Mom steps in and ruins it.  I agree that teachers shouldn't take advantage of innocent kids who don't want it -- but MOST teenage boys would LOVE to have it!  the more the better!!  Do you remember that episode in the show Soap, where Billy Tate's teacher seduces him?  It's a mutual attraction, and the next morning Billy cannot shut up about it.  He says it's like discovering America, he's so thrilled, he can't imagine why everybody doesn't have sex all the time.  He says it's the greatest thing ever in the universe.  I believe that MOST teenage boys feel this way!  They love and want sex all the time -- who better to give it to them than a lovely older woman.  They aren't traumatized by it, they LOVE it and want more.  Their Moms may be traumatized about it, but the boys sure aren't!  Come on! 

My 16 year old nephew and I were listening to the first part of this on the car radio as we traveled. He said that he would never tell if he was having sex with a teacher. He thinks these guys are crazy.

 

Now I know that most teens don't have the emotional maturity to be engaged in sex, and I am NOT condoning a teacher violating the trust placed in them. But unless the boy is very sensitive, the emotional impact is different than when it happens to a girl.

 I do however believe that teachers (male or female) who are convicted should be treated the same.

 
June 23, 2008, 12:30 pm CDT

Sex scandal

I watch the show with the sex scandal with that teacher and, I really dont belive that that boy was ever mollested because no guy could ever say no to a beautyful woman twice there age. Come on, the gumust fantacyse about that teacher and create a story and in the end he probebly belive himself. That guy is full of.... thinking that people would belive him saying that he was traumatise.
 
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