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Topic : 06/13 Teacher Sex Scandal, Part 2

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 03:02:37 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 11/02/07) Dr. Phil continues his look at a teacher sex scandal that has a school and families divided in a small town in Texas. High school teacher Joelle Ogletree faces accusations of sexual misconduct with some of her male students. Joelle claims she's completely innocent but reluctantly agrees to face Matt, one of her accusers, in person. When Dr. Phil drills down into the details of the case, it's her word against his. Matt maintains that when Joelle was his high school French teacher, she came on to him. He says that as a student he received sexually explicit notes from her, but that the notes were written in code. See the encrypted messages and judge for yourself: Are they provocative or harmless? Then hear how Joelle and Matt interpret them. Plus, Matt agreed to take a polygraph test and have the results reviewed by an independent examiner. Find out what the test reveals and how Matt reacts when he hears them read aloud, as he sits face to face with Joelle. Hear both sides of this gripping sex scandal from the accuser and the accused, and judge for yourself if justice has been served. Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

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June 20, 2008, 8:57 pm CDT

Unbelieveable

I am shocked that this poor woman is going through this I dont agree with the fact that she is able to call a student and ask for help with personal chores. I dont see a reason for any contact with a student is necessary outside of school unless the teacher has a child that is friends with the student other than that I think the teacher should talk to the parents of the student or guardian. This womans life is ruined because a boy now a man wanting attention told a lie. She should be given her teaching job back at the highschool or even in an elementary school setting being that she also teaches English. I will pray for both sides cause they are both victims in their own ways.
 
June 20, 2008, 9:01 pm CDT

06/13 Teacher Sex Scandal, Part 2

Quote From: redryder72

I'm wondering why Dr. Phil didn't have her take a polygraph exam.  Now, I'm not a true believer in the accuracy of those tests, but as long as he's paying to shell them out, why not give the 'teacher' a polygraph? 

 

If she's as innocent as she says she is, maybe there is nothing for her to worry about. 

 

I still think there is more going on here.  The accusers just  didn't get those ideas out of nowhere.  She crossed the line, that is very clear. 

He tried to on the first episode and she refused to take a test. he asked why and she said that her other attorney told her not to take a polygraoh test. Her 2nd attorney said she already assed a test b4 so why should she take another one. Yet the same woman has gone through many trials regarding this issue before but is going through another trial on Dr Phil's show. From that moment I knew that she commited the crimes. I don't care what the polygraph test results were. They could have been messed with spiritually to always give results that said "deception". Were I come from, I know such things are possible. I believe both boys were telling the truth, and the one who recanted did so only because he didnt want to put her in trouble, not because he lied either.
 
June 20, 2008, 9:10 pm CDT

06/13 Teacher Sex Scandal, Part 2

I think the teacher did had sex with student, Dr. Phil you should be smarter then that she couldent look to no one face , If she wae innocent why she didnt prove it buy taken polygraph test just like the student and see if she pass or fail !!!
 
June 20, 2008, 9:32 pm CDT

06/13 Teacher Sex Scandal, Part 2

Quote From: jaksmom

Did you hear the kids last statement about the teacher marrying her high school teacher?  I bet those boys thought they could make up stories about her because she married her high school teacher. They thought it would be easy to make her look like a pedophile. So what, like she said, "does marrying her teacher make her a pedophile?"  She obviously has a good relationship with her husband if he has stuck by her side through all of this.  Someone else posted that the boys were probably just trying to get revenge for a bad grade or something, and I agree.

It is obvious this kid and the other kid are lying.  They come from very prominent families who are able to buy their way out of anything.  This was a big joke to these boys to start with and it turned into a scandal--they have ruined another person's life and career---does that mean anything to these kids and their parents?  Do the parents realize what thy are sending out into the world---or do they care???

Something for these kids and their parents to think about--"What goes around-comes around"  Perhaps these kids needed a could spanking a long time ago--sounds like real brats.

 
June 20, 2008, 10:23 pm CDT

School Board doesn't care the boys are lying

Quote From: swainland

Having taught school for years - it would seem that the boys got together and made up a pretty story probably aiming at a teacher who may have corrected them for something they did in the class room; may have given bad grades which they earned; or many other things that upset them.  At their age they could have gotten a hold of an "adult" magazine, put their heads together and created a story to get even with a teacher.  I have seen this happen.  Kids have an vivid imagination that will not quit.  They have ruined this teacher and her family and should be taught a lesson by the courts.  She (the teacher) could even Sue the kids (now adults) for scandal which in my opinion would teach them a great lesson.  People are all too ready to accuse the teachers when things go wrong instead of actually stopping and getting to "the bottom" of all stories.  Teachers are worked very hard with MANY extra duties plus teaching and HIGHLY UNDER PAID.
 It's crystal clear the school board never investigated anything, just took the word of the boys.  If they had, they would have seen their stories changed, one even admitted it wasn't true. The other two couldn't come up with other explanations when they were confronted, such as Natt and the headlights, or moving the piano, the other boy claiming when it where it took place, yet the teacher was over an hour away at a Dr. appt. during that same time.

And the mother of one of the boys stating the teacher started dressing different, wearing her hair different, yet never stated how she dressed, or how she wore her hair etc. Since when does this make a person a pedifile, even if she had changed ?  Which the teacher stated she hadn't, other than wearing maternatiy clothes due to being pregnant.

It's obvious she's innocent, otherwise the D.A. would have taken it to trial again, and never has.  At least they were smart enough to see the boys were lying, pity there isn't anyone on the school board with any intelligence to see this.

Instead they've helped ruin a good teacher's life, her career, put her and her family through hell, all based on lies, and don't have the guts to admit they were wrong, and unjustified.

I hope she wins her lawsuit for every dime the school district has, and I would be sueing the boys families for every dime they have as well.

It's really sad when a person's life can be destroyed by false accusations, what happened to innocent until proven guilty ?  Apparently it went out the window with justice for all.

It's obvious the boys are afraid of what will happen now if they come clean and tell the truth, not to mention the financial cost of having to pay for what they've cost the teacher and her family financially.

It might be good for the people of that town to remember, especially the boys, what goes around comes around.


 
June 20, 2008, 10:58 pm CDT

She's guilty!

The boys passed the first tests, failed this one. She REFUSED to take this one! That's enough baloney already. Any teacher one-tenth as smart as her would never have written a coded message unless she was afraid the message could be read by someone else. Oh, and she wrote "IASS" to say SHE was so sorry to a kid who had "said he ruined" her day? I think not! She also said in the first show that she did not play sexual games with them but that one of the boys had made a sexual statement during the game and she immediately took offense. Yet she invites the same boys to her house for chores, and her car in PRIVATE, Oh and if someone is sick or needs to be rushed somewhere there is a clinic and staff and drivers, etc that take care of that. Otherwise the other option would have been to call 911. That would be better for the person in emergency and would protect the teacher. Of course she didnt realize that! The funny thing is that she kept looking for argumentative, analytical answers to prove the boys wrong. The boys weren't looking for anything, it came naturally to them in detail. That only happens when you are telling all of or some of the truth. And analytical, scientific answers never come to you when you are deeply touched about something true. If those boys had made this up, they would want this whole mess to be history as soon as possible, so they would stay away from bringing it up again or from making new comments let alone coming back to it and giving details with an aggressive and sublimly emotional attitude. Teens also do not take pranks as far as going to court to testify and taking polygraoh tests before judges, let alone comming back to Dr Phil's show 6 years later when they should have been spooked out by the original disaster.
 
June 20, 2008, 11:16 pm CDT

Something IS going on, but what??? I have 2 Theories!!!

  I believe that the young man, Matt, is lying,  BUT I do believe that SOMETHING happened. He said that, "he didn't want her to be a teacher at a school that his relatives would go to. I think he's lying about the sex, but being that Joelle didn't have ANY emotional response I think there is something that they both know that isn't being said. I think that she would have had a more emotional response, like just come right out and  say "You F'ing LIAR",  but she started right out with trying to prove how these things couldn't have happened the way he said. For instance, the "headlights" thing. Matt said that in the first incident she shut the car lights off. Joelle said that the car she owned at that time had lights that came on whenever the car was on, therefore couldn't be shut off without the car being shut off as well. I do think that is a rather relavent fact, especially being that Matt was so adamant about stating all of the small details. That being said,  I don't think that's how she should have reacted the first time she had a chance to jump knee deep into this young mans butt about being a liar. Think about it; Matt has basically torn her life to shreds, and was toying with having her put in prison. She should HATE this kid, she should want to tear him apart. Instead she just tries to convince everyone that this thing couldn't have happened the way he said it happened because her lights couldn't be shut off. I have been FALSELY accused of a sexual assault, and I know that, given the chance, I would have called the person a liar, and had all sorts of emotional responses. Now granted, I was only about 8yrs old when this happened, and the "so called" accuser was only 2yrs old. The mother asked her daughter if I "touched" her and she said "yes" and there is a little more to the story that is too long to get into here, but it was TOTALLY and COMPLETELY false. I know the emotional response that I would have had,.....that is IF I could have called the 2yr old a liar. It was her response, or lack thereof that makes me feel like there is more to the story that she knows. That was over 30yrs ago and I STILL feel very strongly about it, and remember EVERY detail of that day. Matt is mad or hurt about something and wants to make sure that Joelle doesn't remain a teacher at that school. He's justifying this because she did something inappropriate and she knows what it is, but won't say because whatever it is, it's bad as well. She's being too "clinically" defensive and not "emotionally" defensive, which would be the appropriate response, at least at first. I don't like saying how someone should act in any certain situation, but she really should have been more emotional. Now after the emotion then she could come up with the clinical defensiveness, but there has been no emotions shown until she was told that Matt would be coming out and they would be face to face. At that time she was scared. I understand being scared, but the rage should have overshadowed the fear. She never said, "I didn't do a thing to you", "I have never touched you", or "I never layed a hand on you, and I surely never jacked your d**k", which, she really should have said something along these lines. That tells me that she did something, just not the actual sex that he says happened. Matt is just too sure of himself, too cocky, and most importantly, too willing to look her dead in the eye while speaking and that only comes from truth, which I don't think is the case, or anger, and especially anger fueled by betrayal, or something like that. He wants to hurt her, but not too bad. I think if she was going to prison, he would come forward with the truth but he thinks she is getting the appropriate punishment. I don't know exactly how the other kid comes into the picture, but I think he may have either just "jumped on the band wagon" once this thing began or either she pissed him off too. There may have been an emotional relationship WITHOUT the sex between two of them, then that one found out that she was messing with the other kid too. This teacher also refused to take a polygraph test. She said it was because her attorney told her not to, but if she was being 100% truthful, he would tell her that it couldn't hurt. He knows that there is something more to this too.
  I do have 2 theories, and both hinge on the notes. These are JUST THEORIES, but I think I'm definitely on the right track. First, I have to say that these notes show a comfort level between Matt and Joelle that definitely show some level of inappropriate behavior, and they are wrong in and of themselves. One theory goes like this; We have to take a look at the most important note, and actually the only one out of the 3 that I can get any clues from. SIWYWJFM-"Sometimes I Wish You Would Just F*** Me" or "Sometimes I Wish You Were Just Funnier Matt". From a teacher, saying "just funnier Matt" doesn't sound right. If i had written it, that  may not mean a thing, but being that it's grammatically incorrect, and being Joelle is a teacher, it's not likely that it means what she said it meant. Now, assuming that the note meant "Sometimes I Just Wish You Would Just F*** Me, we have to look at it piece by piece. If she just wanted to have sex she wouldn't say "sometimes". The "sometimes" means that there is a reason they haven't had sex but that she understands what that reason is. If she didn't understand it would probably go something like this; WWYJFM, which  would mean "why won't you just f*** me?" Now, the reasons they aren't having sex vary. Maybe it's because she has a husband and Matt doesn't want to get beat to death, or he feels bad about having sex with a married woman, or maybe another reason, but there is a reason. I do think the note means just what he said, as do the other 2 notes. Now, "just F*** me", though vulgar, sounds more like something that would be said by any normal person who could speak proper english. I think that maybe she offered to have sex with him, either he refused or it just hadn't happened YET. Matt knew that nobody would believe that she offered, and he refused so he had to make up something that people would believe, and was bad enough to get her fired. He took the partial truths and added to them. That is why he can remember parts of what happened, because parts ARE true.
  OK, this is the second theory; This theory is similar to the other one, but in this one SHE refused to have sex. Joelle could have been having an emotional relationship or just leading him on, as well as the other kid, and she strung him along without having sex. In this case, the "sometimes" means that, at times, she wants to give in, or it's just part of whatever game she's playing with him. This may have all been a tease. Joelle may have been toying with this young man. He fell in love. He found out about young man number 2 and got mad and made up this story. She couldn't tell the truth because she was still wrong and could still be fired. I did just figure out one of the other notes though. The "IASS" they both agreed meant "I Am So Sorry". That could have been when he found out about the other young man. These are both just theories, and could be reversed with the other young man being the "main player" but I think I'm VERY close to the truth here. Either way, she knows what the reason is that these kids said these things, but she's not saying what it is. It's obvious that she can't tell the truth because she would lose her job, and her husband, which she may have wanted to get rid of him anyway. Although If she did, she now needs him to be by her side to make the appearance of a happy marriage. I think that her guilt is what makes her not have emotion towards him. That would explain why she just sat there trying to explain how the instances he spoke of couldn't have happened that way and why she didn't just say "I never touched you" or "I never layed a hand on you". It could also be why she didn't want to get into a "screaming match" She didn't want to let something accidentally slip out and reveal her part in all this. She did stay very calm throughout the whole interview, and I think that was because she had to think about everything she said. Matt's story, on the other hand changed from the times he told them because they were only half truths and he couldn't remember what parts he had actually made up. The facts about how this whole thing played out may be in dispute, but I think I'm pretty close to the truth. The one thing I am sure of is that something DID happen. Joelle IS NOT completely innocent, as she swears she is. These are just 2 possibilities, but like I said, SOMETHING did happen. I would REALLY LOVE to know the entire truth in this case. I think the best way to get the truth is to get this young man on a polygraph machine and ask him some specific questions about why he thinks the other polygraph test proved him deceptive about some of the other possibilities, and if he's angry with her, which he should answer "yes" to that question. If the polygraph showed that he told the truth about being angry with her then that shows something did happen. Then you start asking other questions. I also think she should be put on the polygraph BEFORE she's ever allowed to teach again. They said that she had her teaching license back, but I think they should find out what REALLY DID happen before they allow her to teach. If she offered sex and he refused then something needs to be done about that. If there was an "emotional" relationship that hadn't turned sexual YET then she doesn't need to teach either. If she was leading this young man on to get him to "get rid" of her husband, or if she just wanted her husband to think she was sleeping with this young man, they need to take her license away. This woman was wrong, and they just need to figure out to what extent.
  On a lighter note; does anyone else think this kid looks like Clay Aiken?
 
June 20, 2008, 11:52 pm CDT

She's WRONG too.

Quote From: mominatorduex

I am shocked that this poor woman is going through this I dont agree with the fact that she is able to call a student and ask for help with personal chores. I dont see a reason for any contact with a student is necessary outside of school unless the teacher has a child that is friends with the student other than that I think the teacher should talk to the parents of the student or guardian. This womans life is ruined because a boy now a man wanting attention told a lie. She should be given her teaching job back at the highschool or even in an elementary school setting being that she also teaches English. I will pray for both sides cause they are both victims in their own ways.
I won't go into my whole theory of what happened. If you would like to read that, I just posted "Something IS going on but what??? I have 2 theories".
That being said, let me get to my response to this nonsense..........."This poor woman?????" are you out of your mind??? Did you read the notes this woman wrote? That alone shows some sort of inappropriate relationship, and if you believed that "Sometimes I Wish You Were Just Funnier Matt" you are gullible. This woman is a teacher. She WOULD NOT say "just funnier Matt". She would say "sometimes I just wish you were funnier Matt". That is just too gramattically incorrect for a teacher. I think she had a relationship, NOT SEXUAL, but a relationship nonetheless. I think she was leading this young man on, and I think that is what pissed him off. He wants her punished but not too bad. Did you see the way he glared at her?? That only happens when someone is tellling the truth, which isnt' happening here, and when someone is angry. It's especially true that anger is fueled by betrayal. One kid found out about the other kid, but she had kept it non sexual, for some reason this woman DID HAVE some inappropriate relationship with this young man. That is why she didn't have any emotional responses. She feels guilty and that's why she never said anything like "I never touched you" or "you LIAR", or anything like she should have said. She knows she did something wrong, but just not what she's being accused of. Let's say that NOTHING I said happened. Let's say that the ONLY thing that happened is what she admitted to, the letters. That was inappropriate in and of itself. It shows a level of comfort between student and teacher that is wrong. They need to find out to what extent this woman messed with these kids heads and I think she shouldn't be teaching. Would you put your male child in a class with her?
 
June 21, 2008, 12:43 am CDT

She is freaking guilty

You can say whatever you will about her demeanor during the interview, but if someone was ruining my life i would be pissed off and angry.  I would look forward to facing the liars at the expense of the world.  I don't understand why she just smirked the whole time.  As far as the idiot  who said she likes older guys- since her husband was older is just as dumb as the audience.  It seems she was victimized when she was a student.  Most abused children become abusers themselves.  She has never been happy with her peers.  OLDER or YOUNGER i don't think it matters.  And by the way its the new millennium don't invite other peoples children over your house- what were you thinking.  What is a 24yr old hanging out with children anyway.   Why not pay movers to move  her piano???? Oh and BTW her husband is creepy.

 

Now moving on to the Lie Detector Tests.........yes they are scientific but they aren't fool proof.  That is why they are inadmissible in court.  I was raped when i was 17.  I know now being an adult it wasn't my fault.  I was drugged.  But i felt so guilty for everything  I failed my lie detector test.. Its easy to say to relax but when your reliving those moments you wished you could take back.  Its very difficult. They both passed the tests in the beginning... maybe they have suppressed regret now that shows up. I believe that the administrator - finally believed Matt by the end of the show. I feel sorry for these boys. Its usually boys that dont come forward - for reasons such as these. 

 

I would never want this woman near my children.  She is very deceptive herself.(just give me a notepad ---please) 

 
June 21, 2008, 10:13 am CDT

so agree with you

Quote From: hillaryhatch

This is my first time to the message boards in all of the seasons that I have watched Dr.Phil. And I think I have been watching since the first season. But I felt like my voice had to be heard on the issue of the notes that were written by the teacher to the student, Matt. She said she admitted writing them to him but that these letters took on alernate meaning. When the screen flashed the IWTGYH - along those lines, I knew immeadiately, before Matt had even said anything, what those letters mean. Almost ANY high schooler or person who has been in high school the past 5 or so years would know what that means! I was shocked to hear that she said it meant something about having brains. PLEASE - there is something going on between these two - I do not know if she did anything sexual with him, but those notes are conclusive for me.

That was when I knew she was guilty of something.  She may not have had sex with them, but she was teasing them about it.  Her version of the code was LAME, such a stretch.
 
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