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Topic : 12/06 Desperate to Be a Mom

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Created on : Friday, November 30, 2007, 01:44:52 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
How far would you go to be a mother? Dr. Phil's guests are women whose biological clocks are ticking time bombs, and they're willing to risk almost everything to become pregnant. When Tonya and Keith got married, they agreed not to have children. Six years later, Tonya has had a change of heart and is now obsessed with having a baby, but Keith is totally opposed to the idea. Can they reach a compromise without resenting each other, or will the baby talk end their wedded bliss? Next, Eric and Michelle have been married over a year and have been unable to conceive. Eric refuses to spend another dime on fertility treatments because he says there's no guarantee she's going to get pregnant. Michelle won't take no for an answer and has even considered going behind her husband's back and charging fertility treatments on her credit card. After talking with Dr. Phil, will Eric decide to invest in the procedures, or will Michelle put her baby dreams on hold? And, Dr. Phil fitness expert, Robert Reames, and his wife, Arminae, share their painful five-year struggle to have another baby. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

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December 6, 2007, 7:03 pm PST

Offended

I did not read though all of the posts but I just want to say I am dissapointed and offended that adoption was not mentioned once on the show.  Being a mom is not about becoming pregnant.  My husband and I knew we wanted to adopt even before we faced fertility issues,  the plan was to have both bio and adopted children.  Things don't always happen the way we plan.  Four years after we started trying we decided to turn towards adoption.  Four years after that is when we finally got our baby girl.  I just cannot understand shelling out thousands of dollars for fertility treatments that may not work.  I did recently go through testing to find out my problem but more so because I am in so much pain.  I have endometriosis and my ovaries are not producing "good" eggs.  I am having surgery to relieve some of my pain but the odds of me ever becoming pregnant are slim and that's ok.  I love my daughter more then anything and hope one day to give her a brother or sister,  well actually several of each but I don't make plans,  they make themselves.
 
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December 6, 2007, 7:08 pm PST

12/06 Desperate to Be a Mom

Quote From: alanna_vezeau

I didn't mean to be hurtful. I didn't consider infertility as a disease before you bit my head off. Sorry, but I thought God does mean for people to die, hence giving them cancer, car crashes, etc. But I suppose you are right, just because a person has cancer doesn't mean they shouldn't try to live. I agree with that.

 

But as a side note, how many miscarriages/still borns did you have to have before one made it through?  How many miscarriages should a person have before giving up? At what point is it not okay?

Thank you for that, I apologize for the way I came off. I do believe God gave me this disease for a reason. I've learned more about myself, my husband, my relationship with God, an incredible amount of patience and I truly appreciate every little blessing. I don't think for a second God meant for me not to have children, but he did have quite a few lessons planned.

 

Miscarriages are not necessarily a part of infertility, its one of many problems. I have never had a miscarriage. I had never been pregnant until last year. For some people, and for me, there was no breaking point. I would go to the ends of the earth, end of my bank account, I couldn't imagine not "trying" to get pregnant. It was worth every second and every penny. And I will do it all over again.

 
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December 6, 2007, 7:10 pm PST

PCOS

 I was diagnosis with PCOS back in 1972. Back then they called it PCOD (syndrome vs disease). The treatment then was to go through the hormone stuff ,then surgery. I had a wedge resection in hopes that the eggs would get out of the ovaries and down the tubes to be fertilzed. Unfortunately, they say I got an infection before leaving the hospital that was not caught. My tubes were now wrapped around my ovaries and had massive scar tissue. I was devasted. I endured two more surgeries to try and remove the scar tissue but had no luck. My doctor told me I would probably be 40 having my first child (I was 24).

People say they know what infertility is like - they don't. Unless they have gone through it, they don't. Besides all the temperature taking (yes, years of waking in the morning, putting the thermometer in my mouth and going back to sleep until time to get up-which we now know was dangerous with a mercury filled therm.),
the drugs,
the shots,
the doctor visits (worst was during periods when they needed to do a biopsy to see if you ovulated), the hyster-salpingogram (they use to do them with oil which I about passed out from the pain- water is much less painful),
and every period was like a miscarriage to me. I once heard that women miscarry many times through out their life but never know because  they didn't know they were pregnant. For me, every period was a miscarriage and this pain went on into my 40s. Only someone who has been there can know.

In later research I found out that the scar tissue is common for wedge resections - that it rarely ever results in pregnancy. I doubt I had an infection but I will never truly know. I think because I was going to a University Hospital aka teaching hospital, they were more anxious to do it. In the 80s when invitro came about I contacted my specialist there and he said it would not work for me. I know believe it woud have but, then again will never truly know.

Now they have an idea what causes it thus changing it from a disease to syndrome. PCOS is a symptom of insulin resistance. I was fortunate as I did not suffer from the hair growth. I have a friend that has to shave her face every day, often twice if going out in the evening.

I remember the greatest pain I had after not being able to have a child was when my Mom told me it was no big deal. That she would have been just as happy with no children. This coming from a woman with 7 children - how would she know what being childless is like?

As for the emotional pain - it took years to get to where it was not there everyday. The turning point was in 1999 when my 2 nd granddaughter was born. I was, praise the Lord, able to hold her and not go into a deep depression. It was as it should be when a grandchild is born.

Is there any pain even after all these years? Yes. I am 55 and still miss not being able to give birth to a baby. Do I still want to - no, too old but that ache is still there and gets stirred up once in a while when programs like today is on TV.

One recent experience though pointed out what I missed not having a baby. My daughter-in-law is pregnant again and was talking with one of my sisters. We were all discussing the impact children have on your life. My sister kept on her bandwagon of how you have no life with a baby and finally shouted out "no I don't know cause I have never had a baby." an walked away.  I don't agree with her - you do have a life, just not the life of a single person. Your life now includes others and changes to reflect that.

My younger sister made the choice to not have children. She married a guy who had two teenagers and didn't want  anymore.She made the choice between parenthood and the love of her life. Does she miss not having a child of her own? Yes and at times it hurts. But she is happy with her choice. Her thinking is 'children come and go, but a spouse is with you to old age.'  I love her thinking.

Please do not judge or even say you know how we feel when we can't get pregnant unless you have walked in our shoes.
 
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December 6, 2007, 7:12 pm PST

12/06 Desperate to Be a Mom

Quote From: lynn2574

I keep reading peoples posts about why dont people adopt more?. that is not an answer for everyone.  There are valid reasons to not adopt.  There is concern with the adoption laws in the US, that often side with the birth parents, and could end with a child being taken back by their birth parents.  There is the cost it can be overwhelmingly expensive.  International adoptions can also be extremely expensive.

Then there are the emotional concerns.  Unless you are an adoptee, I dont believe your opinion about how wonderful adoption is is completely valid.  Have you lived a life of feeling like you dont fit in?  Have you lived a life never understanding a biological connection?  Have you lived your life knowing that you were given away by the people who were supposed to love you unconditionally?  Ive yet to meet a fellow adoptee who is not insecure with relationships, and tended to worry as a child that their adoptive parents would go away.  I certainly understand that this is not the situation for ALL adoptees, however, it has been prevalent in my experience, the experience of my brother, 4 relatives, and multiple friends and clients I have dealt with. 

I have a tremendous respect for people who adopt.  I think adoption is a much better alternative to foster care or growing up with an abusive or unfit parent.  However, many people have lived or witnessed many of these concerns, and adoption is a road that they cant emotionally go down.  I get the feeling that there is a lot of judgement towards them because theyd rather conceive a child, or dont feel adoption is a valid option FOR THEM.

I AM adopted,  yes I wondered why I wasn't wanted but then I finally hit a point and understood it wasn't about not being wanted it was about them loving me enough to try to give me a better life.  My daugher was adopted,  I love her so much and I care very much about her birthmother because she was very very young and knew she could not do it and she did not want her raised the way she was.  She wanted her to have a better life.

 

Adoption is not for everyone but I think there is a point where being a mom is so much more important then getting pregnant to fulfill that.  Would I like to be pregnant?  Yes,  but it's not a reality.  I'm ok with it.  I just recently got my diagnosis of Endometriosis and it stung,  but it was just an answer to what I already knew.

 
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December 6, 2007, 7:16 pm PST

12/06 Desperate to Be a Mom

Quote From: meryl55

i so totally disagreed with this show . . . i felt dr phil was only supporting the female and her wishes to have a child.  and so he reversed his mastectomy - big deal.  robin is mother incarnate and can never see herself as being anything but a mother. . . even after her children are grown.  she has never had to face the real world (she has been totally taken care of by her husband ) , she has never had to worry about getting a job to support herself or to ad to family finances.  she has never had to worry about retirement, insurance, or electric bills.  she has no education to make it in the real world.  i heard on another show that she keeps asking her married son about having children . . . how insensitive - maybe her son does not want children. and she spends all her days going to her husbands job - what other wife in teh world goes to work with  their husbands everyday to be supportive???   answer - someone who only identifies themselves has being a wife and mother.  BORING . . . anyway maybe dr phils views today were biased - based on the fact that all his wife is is a mother and therefore feels every woman is like that.

he reversed his mastectomy

 

 

He reversed a VASECTOMY,  mastectomy is for breast cancer.

 
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December 6, 2007, 7:18 pm PST

Two different situations

I don't see how you can compare going into debt for fertilization treatments and going into debt for something wrong with a child that is already born. The way I see it those are two separate situations, the first is going into debt for something that may not work and if it doesn't work things are still the way that they were before, where as the second situation, even if it didn't work would change the lives of the two parents that are involved and the child. That would be like my parents telling me when I was diagnosed with epilepsy at age 16 that they wouldn't pay for medication just because there was no guarantee that it would work.

 
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December 6, 2007, 7:19 pm PST

Can't weight for my dream come true

Quote From: onecutepeanut

Dr. Phil, you really surprised me, but impressed me.  You really do love your wife, Robin.  The fact that you reversed your surgery for the love of your wife was so very touching.  *Thank You*

 

Now for Keith and Tonya.  First of, Tonya you made a promise with Keith before marriage not to have children.  Secondly, I am a firm believer that women or men that don't have kids shouldn't marry into a "READY-MADE Family".  It is very unfair to the childless partner.  I would "NEVER" be interested in a man with kids.  Secondly, Keith, that is what you get for attempting to marry a much younger woman instead of someone your own age with kids.  I do agree with "Never Say Never....".

 

Eric & Michelle, I feel you both are going to be just fine.  What I don't understand is unless the Dr. Phil show is willing to pay this cost, it is easier said than done to just go on with this expensive procedure to conceive.  Can't a longing to have kids be cured by adopting?

 

And the celebrity couple, you are already blessed with a daughter.  I don't get this "giving birth to someone else's eggs".  It is not the mother's child, it is only the father's.

 

Good Luck :-)

What you said about marring someone older just hurt me. My fiance and I are 23 years apart, and we are desperately trying to have a baby. We have been trying for 30 months now and nothing. Yes I am only 20 years old but I have known since I can remember that I wanted to have a large family. I did not plan on starting this soon, but then I met my fiance and he is 43 now and does not have any children and would like to have some soon. We have thought about adopting, but we feel like that our wanting our own children  will still be there, and we don't want to adopt a child and every day resent it knowing its not ours. We would like to adopt someday but we want one of our own first. We have tried everything we can without the Dr. yet. That will be our next step. We bought a Clearblue Fertility Monitor, but we have not been able to use it yet. I have not had my period since May and medication is not working to start it back. My insurance kicks in on the 15 of this month so then I will be able to go see a different doctor and see what is going on with me. Sometimes I feel as though I am a failure to my fiance because I can not give him what he desperately wants. For all of you who are still trying I say Bless you all and if you don't mind I will say a prayer for you every night along with mine.  Good luck to you all.
 
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December 6, 2007, 7:20 pm PST

12/06 Desperate to Be a Mom

Quote From: sissyshame

Every message board I have ever seen where invertility is the topic, is filled wih people who have to be right. 

The desire to have children is a natural drive, not everyone has it, and that is OK, but those who do feel it strongly.  Our feelings are valid.   We are not the dumping ground for the worlds unwanted or neglected children.  Infertile couples are not the ones who by default should adopt.  Adoption is wonderful and it is a path I had often though about taking even before I knew I had fertiltiy issues, and I may if I have bio children or not.  What I resent is the implication that that is what our role is.  I make my life, I live my life, so no one gets to decide how I do it.  What I resent is those standing on the soapbox preaching that having children biologically is wrong.  I resent the fact that the crack whore on the street can pump kids out that she will neglect, I resent the irresponsible man who fathers children than does not take care of them. 

Marriage is ALL about comprimise, and for anyone to say that someone has to live with an agreement that they made with their spouse FOREVER with no room to discuss modifying it or comletely throwing it out, is missing the whole point.  I did not want my husband to knock down a wall in our house, but it was what he wanted.  Guess what?  The wall is gone.  And I agreed to it, and I do not make him miserable over it.  My husband did not want to paint the living room yellow.  The living room is yellow.  I realize that these are overall trivial things, but these trivial things are the decisions that help you learn to comprimise on the BIG ones.  My role as a wife is to make my husbands life as rich as possible and to help him achieve his dreams.  His role as a husband is the same.  We find a way to do this for each other.

Infertility is a sad sad road.  My husband and I met in 1989 when I was 16, dated for a long time before marrying in 2006, we have been trying to conceive since marrying.  We are on our 3rd round of IUI, and will move on to IVF next if this does not work.  We have no diagnosis for our troubles.  We will consider egg donors, my cousin has lined up to carry a baby if that is what we need.  We will adopt.  We will be good parents who will love and teach our children.  We will be a happy couple who love each other better today than we did yesterday, and really feel sorry for those who just dont get it.

Very well said. And good luck to you, I know the pain very well, hang in there. Miracles happen everyday.

 

 

Dr. Phil was at least sensitive enough NOT to bring up adoption. Do these people here think the guests never heard of it? Wanting to bare and raise your own bio children is a very natural feeling for many women. We are allowed to feel that way and treat our condition/disease just like any other. No one should be forced to defend that feeling, or made to feel like anything less for going after it.

 
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December 6, 2007, 7:26 pm PST

Birth and adoption

Quote From: androsfamily

This message is as much for Dr. Phil as it is for the other readers.  FOR the men who were leaning towards having a child...The thing that concerned me about today's show is the fact that Adoption was never discussed as a viable option to the question of  things you would do to be a mom.  Dr. Phil's Fitness Trainer came on in the end and no other options were expressed to them or anyone else if pregnancy didn't occur... The reason this concerns me is that if couples out there do eventually decide to try and have a baby and it doesn't work- there is definitely another option.  We are the proud parents of a bioligical son and a soon to be adopted daughter.  Our son is 8 years old and after successfully conceiving him with no problems, I was unable to conceive again (due to Graves Disease- we chose not to go through Fertility procedures).  There are 100,000 children in the Foster Care System in the US awaiting a 'Forever Family'.  I am grateful to all who adopt, worldwide but not nearly enough adoptions take place through the State system.  Our new 3 1/2 year old daughter is everything I could ever imagine in a little girl and them some.  Sure, it's a transition, but also one of the best decisions we have ever made.  So, if you are unable to conceive and can't afford tor don't want to go through the costly fertility procedures- YOU HAVE OPTIONS!  Check out your local Department of Children and Families.  Adoption classes start all the time and there are children of all ages and races.  Also, you don't have to be married to adopt through the state system. AND- you don't have to be rich to adopt through the system either.  You do need to be happy, stable and loving. The state even offers a subsidy program to help offset your new child's needs.  Our daughter will have college paid for through the state, as well as Medicaid until she's 18 years old.  It has been an amazing option for us and we are so grateful to the state for the program.  I wish all the families well and appreciate all the wonderful work Dr. Phil and Robin do for children. 

 

Why do you want to deny other women the experience you had with your son?

I was happy for you until I read the part about the Medicaid and college education your daughter has. Sounds like the subsidy's is a large reason you adopted - a child without having to provide for two costly things: medical insurance and college education. A lot like the reasons I hear for foster parenting.

I have heard that monetary subsidies are also available. In Oregon there is a issue where the foster parents want to adopt a child they have had since 4 months old. Someone brought up the fact that the states get money from the federal government for every child adopted out of the foster system and that the states pay their medical to 18 and even monthly stipends to the adoptive parents. With benefits like that, who wouldn't want to adopt? By the way, when we adopted in the 1979, the only benefit we had was their medical. But the day the adoption was finalized, the state dropped out of our lives as it should be with adoption unless adopting a child with special needs.

A difference between you and the women wanting a child is that you already have a bio child. Would you feel the same about your adoptive daughter  if you had not had your son? You cannot truthfully answer. When you already have something you cannot honestly say how you would feel if the situation were different - you can only guess.
 
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December 6, 2007, 7:26 pm PST

A tough row to hoe . . .

Quote From: cdragice

I watch Dr. Phil nearly everyday and generally have great respect for him and his opinions. I've always found him to be fair and sensible. However, this episdoe made me so incredibly angry that I had to come on this site and say what I feel.

In the matter of the first couple, I can see his point. Depending on how strongly the man feels about not having children, it's something he needs to consider for his wife. But SHE needs to do the same for HIM! Marriage isn't just about making the woman happy, it's about both partners doing things for each other. I was very surprised that he didn't seem to focus on that.

It was the second couple that sent me through the roof! It's sad that she needs to have a child to validate herself.  In my opinion, her husband was extremely sensible and, for once, Dr. Phil was definitely NOT. Spending thousands of dollars to CREATE a child is NOTHING like spending it to SAVE a child that already exists! That woman is throwing money after something that simply will not happen for her. I'm sorry that she can't have kids, but that's life! Maybe there's a reason for that. Not every one is meant to reproduce.

However, the thing that upset me more than anyone is that Dr. Phil did not discuss adoption. If having a child is that important to you, then spend the money on the actual child, not on the possibility of one!! There are millions of children in desparate need of a loving family at this very moment, and this woman has the audacity to spend her entire savings on something that will not happen?! And Dr. Phil told her to do it?! There are already far too many people on this planet, it makes a lot more sense to save one that already exists than to just add to the problem.

That woman is exceptionally selfish, and I was extremely disappointed in Dr. Phil for supporting her. I only hope her husband has enough sense not to listen.

   This issue about having children must have come up when the couples were discussing their marriage before announcing their engagement.  If she entered the marriage knowing he did not wish to have children--and now she has changed her mind--she should also consider changing her husband.  The marriage is over.

    This is too large an issue for compromising. 

     Unfortunately, I know how that poor second woman feels.  I was married 7 years, and I was 29 years old when I starting trying to conceive.  As a teenager, I was taught that it is contraception that was challenging.  As a young wife, I discovered that certain joy of resorting to basal temperatures, charts,  and cervical mucus.  Months passed, and still no babies.  I became a nervous wreck.  I felt less than a woman or person.  (This is how I felt--people are not Vulcans and capable of being perfectly logical) 

     It turned out that the unknown reason that I could not easily conceive reared its ugly head.  I was developing cervical cancer.  Once each year, I made enough chemicals to conceive.  I was overjoyed when this happened. Things were looking up. 

    But the cancer reared its ugly head.  It masked several alarming symptoms, and that first child was

stillborn.  One of the most horrible things that can can happen to any woman is going into the delivery room to have a child that she knows is dead.  And then, six weeks later, my PAP smear came back to the doctor marked "suspicious, probably malignant."  I learned the true value of "double lab" for biopsies.  I had an operation, and I had to take cancer drugs for six weeks.

   Eventually, I had a daughter and a son.

   I would never, ever say that it was easy.  I would never say that all a person has to do was think positive thoughts.  Or relax.  For some people it is destined to be MUCH more difficult!   And there are absolutely no guarantees.       

    (I suspect that Dr. Phil did not discuss adoption because neither one of these couples could pass the psyche test for adoptive couples.  There is too much angst in both of them to bring a child into their worlds.)           

 
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