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Topic : 01/08 Cyber Bullies

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Created on : Friday, January 04, 2008, 02:07:51 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
You've heard the saying, “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” But what happens when someone posts malicious comments about you on the Internet? This trend, known as e-vengeance or cyber bullying, can have deadly consequences. Thirteen-year-old Megan Meier committed suicide after being taunted on MySpace by “Josh,” whom she believed to be a cute teenage boy. Unbeknownst to her parents, Ron and Tina, Josh’s profile was fake, which they believe was created by an adult neighbor to monitor Megan. Was this a case of freedom of speech, or harassment? A state senator proposing anti-cyber-bullying legislation and a First Amendment attorney weigh in. Then, Colorado councilwoman Sandy Tucker made national headlines when she posted a controversial joke online. When the mayor asked her to remove remarks he considered offensive, Sandy refused and then resigned. She doesn't feel the need to apologize and says people need to lighten up. Holly lives in Sandy's town, and joins the show via Web cam to tell the former councilwoman why the joke is no laughing matter. Plus, meet a man who says he's constantly taunted by racist slurs while playing Xbox Live. Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

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January 8, 2008, 6:46 pm PST

Not Possible...

Quote From: lashru

I've been playing a variety of multiplayer online games since 1999 (as an adult, I must add), and have experienced cyber bullying and griefing from a variety of perspectives including enforcement against the bullies.  It's a difficult issue but there are a number of measures game providers can, and have, taken to reduce the incidence of bullying as well as to punish the offenders.

I originally played Everquest, and experienced a variety of harassments and griefing, most of which fell into the context of the game.  Within EQ, players had the ability to give a command that would capture the last ten lines of the current chat window and send it to a secure database for the EQ game masters to review for policy violations.  If you reported a violation, the GMs would then check the report database and examine the actual text.  If it was found a player had violated the rules, s/he was treated to anywhere from a 24 hr to permanent suspension.  If a player's character had an obscene name, that character could and would be deleted outright, without the opportunity to preserve its possessions or transfer them.

While I was a guide ( a volunteer in-game support person below a GM) in EQ, I frequently dealt with petitions complaining about obscene and harassing remarks, emotes, behavior, and character names, both within and outside the context of the game.  In general, if you wanted to go on an anti-elf racist rant in game, that was perfectly acceptable because elves don't exist in the real world.  However, if you wanted to say those same things about Arabs (as happened on 9/11, when I was a senior guide), you were in violation of the TOS, and you could and would be punished up to and including being banned from the game permanently.  I know for a fact that Sony/Verant (EQ's publisher) and the GMs (Sony employees) took the real-world harassment and threats very seriously, and acted on them as swiftly as was possible.

That's what's lacking in the game I play now, World of Warcraft, published by Blizzard.  Several months ago, I was a victim of cyber harassment of the most offensive kind.  As I was adventuring in-game, minding my own business, I encountered a couple strangers, one of whom challenged me to a duel.  I declined, and he repeated the challenge a few more times (what we call spamming), which I ignored.  Then he emoted raping me.

Don't get me wrong: in no way did I ever feel I was personally at real-world risk of being raped.  Unless the person on the other side of the rapist toon was a GM or Blizzard employee, there's no way at all for him to obtain my personal information and track me down in real life.

I reported his behavior, and basically got the usual line from the GM who responded: well, it's not a real-world threat, he doesn't have your information, it only happened the once, so just ignore him and move somewhere else.

The problem with that "resolution" is, it isn't.  At all.  When someone emotes something so totally objectionable, the last thing the victim needs to be told is, hey, shrug it off and move yourself elsewhere.  You want, and need, to see that the other person is punished.  I was told, as well, that it was my word against his, and it was only one incident.

Why was this so objectionable?  I've had friends who were raped, and I can well imagine the psychological effect that twerp's emote would have had on them.  And, in addition, I'm acutely aware of the social implications.  Here's some twerp who thinks rape is funny, that it's amusing to pretend-rape someone because, heyyyy, it's "just" a game.  I seriously doubt he'd go up to one of his sister's friends, ask her out, and if she refused, pretend to rape her.  And I would bet a fair bit of money he would never have done that had his mother been watching over his shoulder.  Nor would he have found it as funny had it happened to his mother or sister.

The problem is, many online forums (whether chat sites, games, or other ways in which people communicate, simply cannot afford the real-time monitoring necessary to ensure that these venues remain completely safe and user-friendly.  Nor should they have to.  That's like expecting an adult-chat party phoneline to ensure that none of the participants says anything offensive to any of the other participants.

The central problem is, you cannot FORCE people to behave themselves from the get-go.  All you can do is provide something of a foul-language filter, and ensure there are meaningful consequences in the game when they do (and trust me, they will) misbehave.  Not monitoring, but rules, enforcement, and meaningful punishment.

I'm personally not in favor of limiting free speech on the internet, I think it's un-American.  I think you parents out there have a responsibility to ensure that when your children are allowed online, they are monitored and their content is vetted by the adults responsible for them.  If your child has a subscription to some chat site or game that you don't know about, you have larger issues than whether someone on that site is a pedophile lurking.  I think adults should be free to communicate online however they like, up to and including "hooking up" and cybersex, if that's mutually agreeable.

However.  Any company that provides any kind of communication forum, where the communications can be captured in text form, should provide its subscribers (paid or free, shouldn't matter) with the means to capture proof of harassment, to document it, and report it to some authority which has the power to verify what happened, then punish any violations of the Terms of Service.  And if the violation includes a threat to visit real-world violence or harassment upon the victim, that should be reported to the appropriate authorities for additional criminal or legal action.

What we need is to ensure that people currently abusing the anonymity of these fora face real consequences, and that their victims have the tools to prove violations have occurred.

And then we all need slightly thicker skins, and to teach our children that anonymity is never an excuse for bad behavior :)
It is physically impossible to really emote rape on WoW.  The most you can do is say  "username" rapes "username."  I mean I could see you being upset with Blizzard if they had actually animated an emotion where you could rape someone but blaming them because someone in the game said that isn't fair, and, by the terms and conditions that that player agreed to, they haven't broken their contract.  I understand that, yes, if certain people were called certain things or encountered certain experiences it could hurt them, but people do and say rude things to me in that game all the time and I don't think it's Blizzard's job to kick everyone out of their game that says something that MIGHT be offensive to someone else.  I do know that if there is an extended amount of time that a person is harassing you in this game they will do something about it.  Anyway, I just don't think it's fair to condemn a company based on one event to which you, personally, did not enjoy the outcome.
 
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January 8, 2008, 6:47 pm PST

01/08 Cyber Bullies

Quote From: southmark

HOGWASH!!!!
Unfortunately, being rational as an adult doesn't help a dead 13 year old who was inexperienced and at a critical age having to deal with the real world.
 
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January 8, 2008, 6:47 pm PST

Gaming Bullies

As a member of  Xbox Live since 2004 I was completely offended by tonights show. Many obvious facts that Xbox Live subscribers, and Xbox console owners know were not included, along with no opposition to the rediculous statements that were told.

Quote from Xbox 360's parental control site
"These comprehensive settings allow you to decide what games your kids can play, for how long
they play, who they can interact with online, and what movies they can watch."

First of all, the Xbox console comes with a very indepth parental controls system that allows you to block content recieved on your gaming console, allow the ability to recieve voice communication (Therefore solving the entire situation, allowing you to play online, but not deal with harrasment), and many other details.

Also, if you do decide to use voice communication, if someone is being rude you can quickly mute them, block them (so you won't ever play them again), and leave negative feedback, which will show up on there gamercard so everyone knows they have a bad reputation and will tend to stay away from them.

I would like to note that they said anyone who harrasses someone over an online game should be put to justice. Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but it's a majority of 6 million 12-16 year old kids who are just being rude. So unless Microsoft sends out the address to the FBI of these 6 million children, there isn't much control you can put on this issue.

I believe that all gamers a plenty warned and the Xbox 360 allows you to solve this problem very easily.

  


 
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January 8, 2008, 6:48 pm PST

Anyone who cyber bullies and kills anyone is a devils Advocate

  Anyone who cyber bullies or kills and scams or is racist or prejudiced or anyone who rapes or murders someone or anyone.  Who takes and pressures someone to have sex. And also anyone who malests anyone like like

  children.  But someones takes says bad things about someone is not thinking at all about the person they are doing it to. Cyberbulling and threatening someones life is a cyberbully  is threatening somesones safety its all the same thing they are not careing about that person because of there color of there skin, we back racist and prejudiced they are better then anyone else. And also anyone who steals purses or money or scams people out of money.

                                                DEVILS   ADVOCATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                         Lynnds6363

 
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January 8, 2008, 6:49 pm PST

This wasn't some stranger from another country

Quote From: southmark

Why did this 13 year old have a "online affair" with a unknown male to start with? The mother had no control over her kid!!!! Now Little Miss Mommy wants to have people arrested 'cause she did a miserable job of supervising her 13 year old. Megan was no angel when it came bullying herself. It's always SOMEONE ELSE"S FAULT IN AMERICA TODAY. The typical KNEEJERK reaction is pass more laws than communist China. SHE HAD NO IDEA WHO HER DAUGHTER WAS TALKING TO ONLINE & DID NOT SEEM TO CARE UNTIL IT WENT TOO FAR. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!! WHO"S TALKING TO YOUR KID?

This woman was a so-called "friend" of the family living in the house just around the corner.  She would come over for coffee, holding inside this dirty little secret. She was a mom, attacking another mom's daughter. Do you honestly think that is in any way correct? If kids bully each other that is one thing, but when MOMMY gets involved on behalf of her children that is just so wrong.

 

 

 
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January 8, 2008, 6:51 pm PST

EH?

Quote From: southmark

HOGWASH!!!!

Well then why don't you explain what really happened?

 
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January 8, 2008, 6:52 pm PST

01/08 Cyber Bullies

Quote From: seeyah

This was 47 year old woman participating in SEDUCING a 13 year old girl with an attractive but fake 16 year old boy to allegedly gain information about what Meagan was saying about her daughter. That is just so wrong. Why pick a fake boy? To cause further humiliation that's why. IF all you wanted was "the goods" my guess is using a fake girl would be more productive. This was done to purposely seduce and humiliate a very young girl. It is despicable.

 

Meagan's internet useage was well monitored by her parents. Moreover, Lori Drew KNEW Meagan suffered from depression. 

Thats right!! What 47yo woman would do this.Shame on Lori Drew she knew megan suffered depression and she created a fake my space,that is a sick person to seduce a 13 year olg girl.Megans family has suffered the worst loss and how anyone can defend the sick actions of Lori Drew is pathetic. 
 
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January 8, 2008, 6:53 pm PST

01/08 Cyber Bullies

I see several different viewpoints to this.

 

Firstly - Condolences to the family who's daughter hung herself. No matter what else, that's a tragedy. And, if it turns out that the adult neighbor, her employee, and child participated in this, IMO, the girl's family probably should pursue this in civil litigation. However-

 

Making new laws (especially for the Internet) that you cannot say X, Y, Z ?  Nope. The flip-side to this story is: if this young girl was in such a condition that this one last straw pushed her over the edge... my very first thought was ' Well, why didn't the parents picked-up on this depression/condition, and seek help for this girl. They already said that she had a very bad 7th-grade year... and evidently, lots of trouble. whether the other kid was the cause or not... she was mentally teetering... and the family should have taken responsibility... seen that she was troubled, or that something intense was bothering her, and 1. sought help for her.... and 2. Kept her off the internet - or - at least, deleted her original myspace account, and just started a fresh, new one (which the 'fake boy' (neighbors) would have been unaware of). I think the girl's parents, ultimately were responsible for her mental health and well being... and the ball was in their court to take whatever action was needed to remove her from the situation (be it 'no internet'... or delete the old account and make a new one, with her parents monitoring everything on it. IMO - they dropped the ball.

 

Maybe it was the adult neighbor, her employee, and kid who provoked this. But, it could have had the same outcome if it had been someone from Mississippi, or India. If the girl was already on thin ice, she needed mental help... and they failed to recognize that, and failed to take any action. But, from what I gathered in the story... they didn't seem all that interested... until after she had hung herself. They are interested, now.

 

Bullies - cyber, schoolyard, or otherwise... are going to exist. It has been my experience that those in control and authority tend to minimize bullying, and sometimes even hold the victim equally guilty. I've seen it... I've experienced it first hand... I lived through it in my Jr. and High School years. I've even seen police just stand by and do nothing, even when told that there was a fight (too much paperwork, or too near the end of their shift). Now... it's gone to the other extreme with "Zero-Tolerance". I know of kids suspended or expelled from school.... EXPELLED!.... for trivial offenses, that in my day would have yielded 'staying after school, or 2-3 licks with a paddle'. Oh... that's right... paddling is considered abuse now, isn't it. Does anyone else see a relation between less paddling and more crime by young people? I do.

 

We already pass more and more new laws, every year... so many, that the people 'in charge of laws' can't even keep up with them all. That just doesn't make sense... at all. Why- there should be a law against making up too many laws! We, as a people, are way too quick to 'demand' new laws... when there are almost always laws in place, which will cover the issue... but they're just not enforced or worded properly. Dangerous dog laws....  if you own the animal and don't keep it properly restrained... and it harms someone, then YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE! Simple. If you are threatened on the internet.... the company providing the service should be partly responsible for providing proper and authentic identification of the person. If someone threatens you... and they tell you that they will cause you or your family harm of some kind, then they have committed a crime, and if it's across state lines or country borders, doesn't that make it federal? You don't have to actually commit the act... just threaten to. Of course... you have to be able to 'prove' the threat.

 

The internet site, company, provider... whoever is providing the 'games', chat rooms, messengers... they should have enough security so that they can identify everyone using their site... or close it down. Every computer has an I.D. or address... and that can be traced. Minors shouldn't be turned-loose on the internet, anyway... not with total freedom. Point is... making new laws won't help do anything except eat away at our cherished freedoms, jam-up our already overcrowded and broken legal system, and cost us all more money that we already don't have. We have to force those in authority to use the laws which are already in place, to go after these people, or they can quit, and be replaced by someone who will. 

 

But for Pete's sake... pin the tail on the donkey... don't pin the donkey on the tail. I'm waiting for someone to propose a law making it mandatory for everyone to always be nice, and pleasant to everyone. (Let's call it the "Warm-n-fuzzy Law"). Let's all make nice... all of the time! The day that law passes, is the day I leave the country, and surrender my citizenship. Humans have not evolved that far, yet. Maybe in another 10,000 years... but not now. Where's my proof? Do you have keys? Do you have a lock on your front door? Do you have locks on your vehicles? Have you even been in a store that has security.... and cameras? Did you know that we have jails and prisons in every country on this planet.... and that all of them are full? (Well, there is one  in Montana that's not full... but one of the walls fell in).  Do you ever watch the nightly news or read a newspaper? I rest my case on that point.

 
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January 8, 2008, 6:54 pm PST

Here's a question!

Who's picture did the neighbors use  to create this fake myspace account, and why are they not being arrested for identity theft (or something there of)?  I'm pretty sure that that kid isn't to happy that he got tangled up in this...there's your real crime....
 
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January 8, 2008, 6:58 pm PST

Ooops

Quote From: bobby_2007

That's it, blame the victim and the extended victims, the parents.  That solves the problem of bullying others, especially that of a 13 year old dealing with an actual adult who was assisting and training another adult, an 18 year old, and Lori Drew was literally teaching her daughter, also 13 years old - to lie who you are and bully another.  I bet they had lots of laughs over that!  I believe the original writer has a narcisistic personality problem!  All about self and little understanding of compassion and especially realizing this issue is about a 13 year old against two adults and another 13 year old being assisted by those two adults.  A child is dead.  HELLLoooooo
That is exactly what I said. hehe. I wasn't blaming the parents at all.
 
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