Topic : 01/08 Cyber Bullies

My heart goes out to the mom and dad who lost their sweet daughter. They were monitoring her computer access, but she had gone places where they didn't approve... therefore, the confrontation between parents and child. I am 55 and won't go NEAR  MySpace.com

One thing that you have to remember about being 13 is that the "world is out to get you" in your own bathroom mirror, at least! Remember how it felt to be that age? Not fun for me and even "not funner" being the parent of 4 already and 2 to go.

I defend to the death Sandy's right to be wrong. The only problem is that she put it on the official website of the county? (do I understand that correctly?) If it had been her own personal site, OK, but not an official website. Still I think people do get a bit too uptight these days.

Terry definitely had his civil rights betrayed. ANYTIME, even in jest, that someone threatens my family, my civil rights have been crossed. Your rights end at the tip of my nose.  I just wonder about people that spend SO much time playing games online and allowing their children to do the same. You saw the picture of Terry playing basketball with his kids. THAT'S a great dad!!! Put the games off until the kids go to bed.

Freedom of speech is a PRECIOUS thing, and should be guarded carefully!!! However, you don't have the right to go into a theater and yell, "FIRE."

I love the internet and use it everyday, if not for pleasure, then for my business. HOWEVER, people had better start waking up and realizing that laws will need to be put into place to protect themselves and their children. But, I have at least 6 email accounts myself and choose to correspond with different people from different accounts. I do NOT do IM because if I'm online, it's time to work and get off-line.... I don't have time to chat. Too bad that kids can't understand that if someone hurts their feelings, just change  your email address. That'll take care of the gossip. But that comes from a 55 year old's perspective who was ONCE 13 and there was no internet back then. Heck, we didn't even have a TV. My father said we should read, and read we did.

I think Dr. Phil did very well on this one except for not understanding how Terry's civil rights had been violated. To me, this one was too obvious!! To the Meirer's, realize that you did your best and that kids make their own choices and although you can guide, you cannot protect them from everything, although you want to. I know from experience... one of my six children lives on the street, uses drugs and prostitutes. She's in Rehab (again) and we keep hoping for the best! But, she's made her choices and I've stopped blaming myself. As for Mrs. Drew... she should be at least censured by the police department. (Don't know what good that would do, but it would be akin to the "Scarlet Letter," no?

This lady need profession help in dealing with her daughters suicide and not trying to blame someone else for her daughters inability to cope with the stress.  She is feeling guilty and looking for blame.  You cannot be bullied on the Internet unless you are on the Internet yourself and allow the bullying - parents need to supervise what their children are doing.  Talk to their children instead of allowing them to be on the Internet.  She is so very wrong in her thinking but understandably so.

 Children or not, words hurt.  We were always taught "sticks and stones may break our bones, but words will never hurt us".  As many times as that was recited to me in school as a response to sharing my pain with adults, it never helped.  In fact, it made me wonder what was wrong with me because the verbal bullying DID hurt and i would have easily chosen the sticks and stones (though, those weren't eliminated, either).

In the past, the only difference between childrens' defamation and adults' was that children would do it to your face...adults would do it behind your back.  The internet evens the platform...and either way, it hurts.  The internet removes any risk the bully may have had on the playground:  The teacher isn't there, the parents don't know about it, the victim can't point him out, and the bully can pretend the victim is a faceless cartoon character without feelings, thus removing what little guilt he may have felt in person when he looked into the crying eyes.  He doesn't see the result of his actions.

Telling others  "we don't need to take what every one else thinks and says about us to heart... when someone does try to tell us that we're fat, ugly, stupid, dumb, etc."  doesn't lessen the pain.  Eating disorders are spun from painful words.  School shootings have been spawned from verbal pain. 

It doesn't matter why they do it, how they do it, where, when or who does it...it hurts EVERY VICTIM.  This is why the Bible does have so many references to hurtful words.  God knows how much it hurts others.  The tongue is sharper than a double-edged sword.

Encouraging as your post may be...and it is...telling us that we shouldn't hurt from gossip and slander is like telling a crash victim that his broken leg shouldn't hurt because the person who hit him didn't mean it...was mad at the world...or whatever excuse that is made for the driver who hit him. 



 

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Thanks.  Sorry about the tiny font.  First time I have used this board and I didn't catch on while cutting and pasting it that it was so hard to read.  I have reposted it and hope that I can fix that problem.

 

As far as myspace goes.  They have quite a few tools that can be used.  I think one of the best ways to protect kids would just be to learn enough yourself so that you can teach them what to do and not to do.

 

Actually, it's been over 2 years since I signed up, but I think they don't even allow people under the age of 16 or 18 or something on myspace.  Not that you can't just lie.

 

I also think that it's very easy for miss understandings to take place in regards to what happened with this suicide and that the parent's might be a bit blinded by their anger. 

 

I also have no idea how you would prove who was sitting at the computer when what was said was said.

 

All I can say is always be very careful in assuming that you know who you are talking to.  There are a ton of fake profiles on myspace.  Most that I am familiar with are used to advertise.  I am sure there are many used for other things.  I still remember over a year ago when I came upon the idea that I could talk to some of my favorite actor's through myspace.  Just to say hi or see what they had to say.  Upon further research though I came to realize that most if not all were people pretending to be them.  I think it's safe to say they are all people pretending to be someone they aren't.

And isn't it amazing someone would stop doing their good work for an IN JOKE. I have been in politics for many years and that is the kind of dumb joke? we would have told to our own group over too many beers and we would have laughed uproariously over its meaning. But none of us would have been so stupid as to post it anywhere online... KNOWING that it would come back to bite us in the ass.  

 

Sorry Sandy, this one is going to work against you. I think the term is you fell on your own sword.

I watched your show today and was wondering if it would be possible to prosecute the cyber bullies referred to under the hate crimes law.  Since the emails talked about on your show target specific people with intent to do emotional if not physical harm, it seems like the people responsible should be accountable in a way more serious than money; and since their actions were malicious why not classify their type of cyber bulling under hate crimes?

 There is a very simple solution to being bullied online.  Don't participate as the victim.  If someone is bullying you online, you can only be bullied if YOU allow it by reading or responding to the bullying.  What do parents tell their kids about bullies?  Ignore them.  This country needs to give up the notion that all problems can be cured by legislation.   I think the FBI has better things to do than monitor who is saying what to whom while playing video games or on Myspace.  Get over it folks.  You can only be a doormat if you lie down and let people walk on you.   If you need social interaction to be happy, go visit someone in a retirement home.

I had an experience with this myself recently.  I had a falling out with my in-laws.   soon after they started writing things on their my space pages about me.  At first it was just obnoxious comments about weight and money but then after the two women saw Dr. Phil's show about "Munchhausen Syndrome" they decided to make reference to it in connection to how I treat my children.  This infuriated me because besides the fact that it could affect my children, I am an educator and a business owner in an industry that surrounds children.  I felt like every aspect of my life could be effected if these"comments"  were seen by the wrong eyes.  Their pages were public.  any one of their friends could have seen it.  I was furious and couldn't believe that it had gotten to that level.  I contacted a lawyer and My Space.  I received an email from My Space telling me to Block them which did me no good since it was posted on their pages.  My Space also told me that if I sent them the link of the harassing parties that they would make a record but it could only be accessed if I contacted the police and had them contact My Space for the information.  I contacted the police but since their was no actual threat there was not much they could do.  My only recourse was my lawyer who thought the situation was disgusting. What I find truly disgusting is that I am an adult and I was overwhelmed by this experience.  How is  a child going to deal with something like this???  There is really very little you can do legally. The point is technology is a wonderful thing but it comes with a price.  Parents have to be their children's protectors.  You have to listen to everything they say even between the lines of what they are saying.  You have to watch everything they do , where they go, who they see..... You can't wait for something to happen and then expect the law to save the day.  Hopefully the laws will catch up but until then watch your kids.  Especially on the Internet.  And one final thought.  ALL PARENTS SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT KIDS ARE KIDS SOME ARE BULLIES, SOME ARE THE BULLIED  BUT WE, THE ADULTS, ARE THE ONES THAT SHOULD BE EXPLAINING WHY BULLYING IS WRONG, NOT TAKING PART IN IT.  THAT MOTHER SHOULD BE IN JAIL FOR WHAT SHE DID.  THAT MOTHER DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE A MOTHER.    SHE IS LUCKY IT WASN'T HER CHILD!!!  I WONDER HOW SHE SLEEPS AT NIGHT.

I felt terrible when I FIRST heard the story about the girl who hung herself; what a tragedy for everyone in that community! If the parents of the other girl were involved, I do think they share blame, no matter the girl's mental state. Laws simply haven't caught up with technology, but I wouldn't be opposed to laws that currently govern improper influence or delinquency of a minor to situations like this. Kids are rough enough on each other, but an adult pushing the mental buttons can really know how to manipulate a child in an even worse way. I think the laws should handle things in that manner.

As for the rest of it; before the internet and instant messaging and emails, children killed themselves over notes being passed at school or over gossip in gym class. We cannot cover ever contingency as a society, nor should we. At some point, people are ultimately responsible for their actions. I believe that ADULTS manipulating CHILDREN however, is another matter. We should not let things get to the point however that when children give others a hard time, they are responsible for the others actions, any more than I as an adult should be responsible for another adults actions should I insult them. People tend to overreact to situations that get publicity and move in that direction and we should be careful.

I do hope the family of Megan manages to stay together and heal as well as being able to have a positive effect by helping to shape some effective laws regarding adult interactions with children. Mostly I hope they are able to heal and find peace. This was a terrible thing. Unfortunately, it has been all to common in the past and continues to be.

For the adults allegedly involved; again, if they were involved, I believe there should be laws in place to punish them. I say this again under the philosophy that while an individuals actions are their own, we've already determined as a society that adults can unduly influence minors, such as with statutory rape. If adults can influence minors in a negative way in regards to relationships, then this type of interaction should perhaps be governed as well.

Ok- enough of that one... For the councilwoman. I see her point about the joke. She felt that by including all or almost all common derogative terms and comparing it to a group SHE had membership in "democrats" she was effectively insulting no one by ridiculously (in her mind) insulting them all. I understand her perspective. I DO think it was poor judgement however. She is right, public officials ARE often held to a higher standard. Just look at how many Presidential candidates have basically blown their campaigns by showing emotion at some point. In any case, the people have spoken in her case. If the public felt her comments were inappropriate, they could remove her. In her case she bowed to public opinion and resigned. Case closed. That's how this situation SHOULD have been handled. If she hadn't removed herself it would have been in the hands of the electorate. Period. No legal issues at stake here other than free speech. Inappropriate or not, she had and SHOULD have, the right to post what she did. It did not threaten anyone with physical harm, etc. So again, poor judgement, but it's over.

As for Terry.... I do understand where he's coming from. First however, I want to say as a professional in the technology field that people need to start understanding technology and taking responsibility for their use of it if they are going to.

Parents need to understand that the internet is a PUBLIC space and forum, no different from a street corner or somewhere else you can go. Children should not be left to their own devices in using it (unless the parents choose to do so) any more than they should be let roam the streets. Your child can be exposed to things you would not wish for them to be exposed to at a Public Library, in a store or on a street corner. So do you supervise your children in those locations? If the answer is yes, then you should supervise your child's use of the Internet.

Somehow people have in their heads that it is the goverment's, some company's, or someone else's job to supervise their children and what their children can do on the Internet, which again, is a PUBLIC FORUM. This is no more the case than if your child is on a city street. Yes, societal laws can and will be enforced, but there are rules. Someone could expose themselves to your child on the street. If you are not aware of your child's activities, this could go unreported and result in no action just as someone exposing themselves via a web camera could be.

Again, this is nothing new. From the days of AOL and other online services, internet chat, email up to today where personal web pages and video sharing are the norm, there is a great PUBLIC FORUM for free speech, but there are also materials and people whom you would not wish your children to associate with or be exposed to. There are already laws in place to enforce many issues that might arise, such as child pornography/exploitation. Now, some of these laws need to be expanded and some others will no doubt need to be put in place.

However, again, each individual is responsible for their actions in a PUBLIC FORUM and we are all responsible for what our children are exposed to there.

With video games there are ratings in place. Ratings that clearly explain what age group they are targeted at as well as the content of those games. Many such games also contain online play. This is where people can play against each other and communicate while playing, just as has been in place on desktop and laptop computers for many years now. Statements on each game box and in the game itself always also clearly state that the ONLINE interactions are not rated by that ratings group (called the ESRB). This is because, just like with a telephone, public speech on the street, etc, people's speech is impossible to censor.

Parents need to be aware of this and if they deem it necessary, supervise their childrens online play. Most systems (I know the Xbox 360 and the Playstation 3) provide parental ratings that can be set up so that children cannot access certain games without parental authority. Parents need to use these tools to protect their children.

The companies that sell these popular game consoles (I'm referencing Microsoft and Sony here, since I know about their systems) also have systems in place to report bad behavior. There is a challenge here however. The system Terry spoke of whereby 10 complaints from different people are required for disciplinary action is in place to prevent one or two users with sour grapes from placing false accusations against someone and having them punished. This is important especially for the Microsoft community because unlike Sony and Nintendo, theirs is a PAY FOR USE service. So the system is in place to prevent people from manipulating it to others disadvantage.

Now, Terry's issue is likely that these direct threats have been over voice only. Now think about that. How can it be caught and directly proven that someone is threatening him by voice? I think a rational person can agree that this is more difficult. However, if people are expressing threats via text and/or email through the system, Microsoft should definitely take action. This is no different from any "regular" email, text online or indeed, in person action. Threats of bodily harm to a person and/or family are actionable under our laws. Microsoft should report these actions to proper authorities if there is indeed such documentation of them and consider disciplinary action as well depending on the nature of the contents. I'm hopeful that the exposure gained through the show can help to resolve Terry's issues, if they are indeed as they were presented.

Again, though, the major problem here is parents not understanding the public nature of these forums and seeming to want to place responsibility on others rather than themselves as far as their children are concerned.

I must say that I usually avoid using headsets while online myself. A large number of very immature children and equally immature adults ARE present and language such as Terry describes is actually the NORM on a service such as Xbox Live. PARENTS REALLY NEED TO KNOW THIS! They need to know because not only are THEIR children likely to hear bad language and be verbally abused while online, but THEIR children are often the ones SAYING the abusive words! Know what your children do when they're on the computer or on the game system, people! It IS pretty bad out there. Again, how do you regulate "free speech?"

Still, there's a difference when it comes to threats whether verbal or written, and that does need to be addressed. Parents STILL need to keep tabs on their children however. How would they know if some situation developed but was unreported and then escalated into real world violence?

We all have these marvelous educational, entertaining and world opening communication tools available to us, but we need to be aware of the environments involved, and what can or does go on there. There's no reason to be paranoid about it, but people do need to be aware and have their eyes open, especially if they have children.

Right now there is a well known but little publicized issue with the Nintendo Wii system. People can make miniature little faces (called 'avatars' or "Mii's") on their service. It is common to find penises and vaginas disguised as these representations. All you have to do is look at their "Top 100" 'Mii's' and you'll likely find at least a few. Nintendo polices this regularly and responds to reports, but they cannot stop these figures from being created and cannot take them down instantly. They need our help as consumers to discourage this behavior and to report such things. Thus they SHARE the responsibility willingly and as good "community members" but the ultimate person responsible to your or your child's exposure to such an artifact is that other person, NOT Nintendo.

Parents also have a large blind spot when it comes to web cameras. Lots of teenagers and young children have access to these as well as adults. While gaming consoles don't come with them, many computer systems and laptops these days DO. They work almost automatically.

This gives rise to the issue Terry described with the "nude Uno" players. Again, Microsoft cannot prevent someone from acting in this manner. They doubly cannot do so unless it's reported. If parents have a computer with a web cam or a gaming system they buy one for, they need to KNOW of these possibilities and be ready to deal with them as they deem appropriate. Either being willing to deal with issues and communicate with their children, or in supervising such interactions. It's THEIR job, not Microsoft's. Microsoft only comes in when something is reported, so parents or other users need to be on top of things and take advantage of available tools to report such actions.

Unfortunately, the world is full of ill individuals. Any community you choose to take part in, whether it's your local city, a computer internet site, or a gaming system, is going to expose you to a certain percentage of these people. We all need to take responsibility for helping to police these areas. Tell people what is or isn't appropriate, report violators. Don't wait for something to happen and then cast about for someone to blame, then coming up with what "should" and "shouldn't" be allowed.

The law is slowly catching up with technology but needs the help of citizens. If you're a concerned parent, EDUCATE yourself on things and help look for areas that need to be addressed. Then work towards those goals. Neither the government, nor the corporations involved can do everything for us as the public or as consumers. We need to be aware of what is out there and act according to our moral compasses and guides. Especially where children are concerned, it is evident that both the law and parents need to be more involved. Instead of being reactionary, we need to be more proactive.

This doesn't mean restricting people's rights to free speech or choosing their form of entertainment (within society's rules of course), nor does it mean enforcing our own personal morality on the rest of the population. It DOES mean being aware of things so that we can protect ourselves and our families from influences and content that we find objectionable or harmful. It would be easier to "ban" online communication; easy because we'd have no responsibility left. Just as easy to try and ban "R" rated movies, TV shows we find objectionable, or video games. Instead, we need to take responsibility for ourselves and our families. Thus, if some people want to watch an "R" rated movie, some TV show or video game we find inappropriate, they should be able to, but we need to use the tools in place to ensure that WE then don't have to! You can prevent children from accessing these kinds of things by not buying them for them or by supervising their interactions. Yes, it's harder to take responsibility and be involved than it is to "react" and try to 'ban' something. However, that IS our duty as citizens and members of the world community. Not to enforce our will on everyone else. It's time we find more balance in our interactions with technology. This will require education, involvement and applying our knowledge to situations that arise, but ultimately it's worth it and can help shape the world around us for future generations.