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Topic : 01/15 Internet Mistakes

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Created on : Friday, January 11, 2008, 01:03:06 pm

Author : DrPhilBoard1

Girls dancing on bars half-naked, passed out on the beach, hugging the porcelain … these are photos posted for all to see on the Web site Facebook, in a group called Thirty Reasons a Girl Should Call it a Night. These shocking and provocative pictures are supposedly submitted by the women in the photos themselves. The women say they love to have fun, and this is a way to bond with other girls just like them. But are there unforeseen consequences to letting the public behold you at your worst? Dr. Phil speaks with women on both sides of this debate. Jasmine is the moderator for the group Thirty Reasons and says, although she’s responsible for taking down questionable photos, she hasn’t found one yet! Amanda and Norma are incensed that women would degrade themselves in this way. Hear from the president of a company who uses Web sites like Facebook and MySpace to weed out potential employees. Could documenting your good time on the Internet become your biggest regret? Then, a teen who loves to drink says criticism of Thirty Reasons just reinforces the double standard of gender inequality. What do Dr. Phil and the teen’s mother think? Plus, a mayor’s sexy photo has her town’s residents outraged. And, meet a substitute teacher who says he was unfairly fired from his job two times for what’s on his MySpace page. Share your thoughts here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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sigridmac

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January 15, 2008, 5:55 pm PST

01/15 Internet Mistakes

Quote From: oldbatinredhat

I think maybe there is a misunderstanding of how "public" schools were set up to operate? They ARE publicly funded but they are to be run by local school boards who are elected by the adult residents in the district. The school boards are a representation of the people who elected them and hold a public trust to do what they believe the majority feel is right in the handling of the education of their children. The boards hire the superintendent who is answerable to them in running the schools the way the LOCAL public see fit. The tolerance of what is allowable from district to district may vary. If Ian were afflicted with a handicap or had a physical characteristic that was used against him in a discriminatory manner, that is one thing. I believe that much of today's show, including Ian, fall under something that is bothersome to me. That some people seem to believe that EVERYBODY has to be accepting of standards that are contrary to their beliefs just because they "have the right to be expressive" or whatever. Schools and businesses have the right to have "standards" that they use in order to employ and retain the kind of personnel that they want. I think that it is odd that Ian felt he should have been "warned" instead of fired the SECOND time that he had the self-composed song with the "f" bomb in it on his site. Once, shame on them (maybe).... TWICE...shame on HIM! I mean, he may have thought that it was okay because he didn't give out the URL of his webpage to a student the second time, but from experience of watching teenagers and the internet, once somebody they know comes up with a controversial or provocative (thought or otherwise) website, kids will continue to flock to it like flies to honey....or something. By the way... I know a teacher who does some things in PRIVATE that are totally ignored because they're private..... but who made the mistake of doing something illegal that was still done on personal time but made the local paper and internet. Was called on the carpet and warned severely for it. I'm not in favor of discrimination or radical actions towards people whose beliefs are not mainstream but I do understand the desire to choose to limit the exposure that children, including impressionable teenagers, would have from a person whose behavior you would consider unacceptable by the local standards.

The teacher made two big mistakes. First, he should not have given the website address to any of the students. Second, he should have set his website on MySpace to "private," so that only his friends could see it. That doesn't help him to promote his music, but it would enable him to post any video he wanted and only his friends online could see it.

The larger issue really is one of freedom of speech and the ability to do what we want in our free time. Unfortunately, this now conflicts with technology. If the teacher merely performed in clubs, his underage students would never have been able to see it. This is one of the downsides of the Web; what people view as their own personal private space is wide-open to the public.

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sharfcc

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January 15, 2008, 5:56 pm PST

We do look!

I am in the admissions department of a world class university, and let me assure you that WE DO LOOK! My associates and I will share information and sites, and to be honest, some of it is just for the sake of amusement. If an applicant, male or female, desires to represent this institution as a future student, then we will attempt to glean as much information as we can that will attest to the character and good judgement-or lack thereof- that is available to us. We have too many applicants to have to be concerned with this kind of person.This site alone can put a perfect SAT/ Valedictorian into the " Denied" pile. Also, recent lawsuits filed by parents against colleges and universities when a student has become injured, or worse, due to alcohol abuse, has given us cause for concern. Why would we invite an admitted out-of-control binge drinker here? We also use them employment applications. The child who so glibly announced that any place that would deny her acceptance to college or her dream job because of assumptions of her made from these sites is simply living a fantasy. It will cost you, life is still determining the price.

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carpeomnius

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January 15, 2008, 5:57 pm PST

01/15 Internet Mistakes

Quote From: coachjoeh

When the show started, I joined facebook and checked out "30 reasons..." There are almost 5,000 photos. To be honest, I did not look at them all. But I did look at 2,000 of them. Mostly I saw young people having fun; partying. Like many of us did at that age. The photos of girls passed out or hanging over the toilet were few; may be 5%. And in many of those pictures, you could not see the woman's face. So I don't see how she will be affected by the photo being there. I did not see either of the women shown on the show who were 'tagged". But I would guess since they probably didn't even know their picture was being taken, they were not the ones who put those pictures on the website. Therefore, I can't see holding them responsible for their photo being there. If someone did post their own photo being in a compromising position, then they should have to deal with the repercussions. But what about those who are not aware their picture is on that site? Should they lose the opportunity at a great job because the potential employer found a picture they didn't even know existed? Absolutely not!

I agree with the teacher. What I do in my personal life has nothing to do with my job performance. I like to drink. I get drunk some nights. But if I show up to work sober and do my job, then so what? To be honest, I don't agree with random urine tests. Let me state I have not smoked pot in a very long time. I chose to stop. But let's say I still did. I work Monday thru Friday. Let's say one Friday night I decide to get stoned. By Monday morning I am sober again. I'm not feeling any effect of the pot. I perform my job perfectly, no problems. Tuesday morning I'm called for a urine test and I test positive for pot and am fired. Is that fair? I wasn't stoned on the job. My use of pot did not affect my work. Why should I be fired?

Some would say because I engaged in something that was illegal. In my opinion, that is a weak argument. Most people do something illegal everyday. It might be something as simple as speeding. Speeding is illegal, but does anyone get fired for doing it? What about sodomy? It is illegal in many states. So if I'm an employer and I overhear one employee telling another that he and his wife had anal sex the night before, should I fire him?

It may seem like a stretch, but I don't think you can have it both ways. If you believe that someone should be fired for doing something illegal or questionable, then you can't make your own list of what fits that.

Part of the things people look at when they are trying to find employees are character, personality...and not just past job performance. When you work for a company, at least in some capacity, you are a representative of that specific company. I'm sure most employers would not want somebody who takes illegal drugs into their system to be a representative of their company. It makes their entire company look bad, especially if they have been proven to take a blind eye towards illegal-drug users who work for them. It is also ridiculous to compare taking illegal drugs into your body and, say, going 5 or so miles over the speed limit. If you, as an employer, hear one of your workers speaking of having sexual intercourse with his wife on the job, then of course you should take appropriate action, whether that be to warn him not to use that language or whatever. However, this all depends on your standards and your company's standards. Perhaps you work at an adult sex toy shop? Then it might be appropriate, in your view, to have such discussions among employees, etc. But most stand-up and respectable work places will not approve of such discussions in the context of on-the-job communications, nor do I believe they should. Perhaps a sensitive customer over-heard such discussions and decided not to shop at that place anymore? That's at least one lost customer because of the foul speech of an employee who is supposed to be representing his or her company.

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karilm

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January 15, 2008, 6:02 pm PST

What is mom thinking??

I saw the show and wasn't upset at anyone except the mom in the audience. She's doing too little to keep her daughter under control. It's easy to blame ADD or ADHD. The mom said she new that the daughter was drinking on weekends and THAT in itself is distructive to her child. SHAME on her. It's very sad.

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lalarissa

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January 15, 2008, 6:04 pm PST

No need to be rude

I think it is easy to see from an older, wiser viewpoint that it is not a good idea to 1) underage drink, 2) to get that drunk to begin with, or 3) to post unattractive behavior on the internet. I also believe though that we are dealing with young and immature girls and they are not horrible people b/c they do these things. For some crazy reason - immaturity I would assume - they think this is funny and cool. We have all done things not so wise when we were young but the opportunity to display it so easily was not there. It's the job of the parents and society to deem what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. I believe this can be done w/out being so stinkin' mean. I think Amanda had such a condescending rude tone when she was speaking to the 17 year old and she would be glad I was not the girl's mother b/c she would have been the one "torn up" had I been there in the audience. She has no right to speak to someone that way. If she does not like the behavior, stay off the website. You can not save the world. Post on websites that invite her opinion like this one. Amanda's behavior was unattractive as well and she was doing it on national television to a high school kid. Parents do need to be more aware of what their teens are engaging in. Getting this info out is important and addressing it is important but it can be done w/out the name calling and the condescending attitude.

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carpeomnius

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January 15, 2008, 6:06 pm PST

Thanks

Quote From: sharfcc

I am in the admissions department of a world class university, and let me assure you that WE DO LOOK! My associates and I will share information and sites, and to be honest, some of it is just for the sake of amusement. If an applicant, male or female, desires to represent this institution as a future student, then we will attempt to glean as much information as we can that will attest to the character and good judgement-or lack thereof- that is available to us. We have too many applicants to have to be concerned with this kind of person.This site alone can put a perfect SAT/ Valedictorian into the " Denied" pile. Also, recent lawsuits filed by parents against colleges and universities when a student has become injured, or worse, due to alcohol abuse, has given us cause for concern. Why would we invite an admitted out-of-control binge drinker here? We also use them employment applications. The child who so glibly announced that any place that would deny her acceptance to college or her dream job because of assumptions of her made from these sites is simply living a fantasy. It will cost you, life is still determining the price.

Thanks for giving us all a moment of clarity amidst the babble of young near-sightedness. There are consequences for our behavior.

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tired66

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January 15, 2008, 6:07 pm PST

I agree

Quote From: doglverx5

I am so tired of niave parents blaming their child's bad behavior on ADHD. It is like a blanket of denial!!! I work with a woman who blames all of her son's "poor judgement choices" on ADHD and depression- from skipping school, to flunking school, to setting things on fire, to drinking at school. They are always he "victims". They are using a condition as an excuse. I really feel a lot of respect for those families out there who with ADHD and work at helping their children become accountable functioning adults rather then a criminal statistic. I know first hand how hard and diligent the work is, but after all, our children are are legacy.

The mother's response worried me. If that young girl has been drinking as much as she reports, that drinking may be the real issue. Frequent abuse of alchohol effects one's ability to concentrate, especially in young drinkers. I have worked with several youths that had been diagnosed with ADHD and were acting out despite taking medications. Several of those youths had drinking and or drug issues. In many of those cases, dealing with abuse issues resolved the issues that were attributed to ADHD. It is not always correctly diagnosed. Often, well meaning general physicians make the diagnosis and prescribe medications based on what they are being told by parents and youths. Alcohol is definately not a good idea even in a properly diagnosed case. Judging from what I have seen from the past, I am assuming that the Dr. Phil show provided the mother with additional information after the show. What information he did provide was spot on, but the show was not about ADHD or drinking per se. I found it sad to see once again how our youths are not receiving proper guidance and supervision from their parents. I have a 15 1/2 year old girl and she is not allowed to have a MySpace/Facebook page because I value her safety above her favor. She is also not placed in situations where she must make the decision to drink or not at this age. That should come later when she is more mature and can fathom the consequences. She has friends and is very social, but a parent can and should direct the nature of the socialization. We are suposed to stand by them and guide them through this really exciting, but challenging time of their lives.

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jacksonsfire

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January 15, 2008, 6:13 pm PST

01/15 Internet Mistakes

Quote From: jpast7154

You couldn't be more misguided on this. First of all, the example the CEO gave was of a young man who lost out on the job because a background check revealed his idiotic post on Facebook. So guys are affected as well as girls. The truth is that this is the most narcisstic and spoiled generation of children who are in for a rude awakening when life smacks them in the face. You guys need to quit with the endless love affairs with yourselves, take down your pages on Facebook--who cares what you think about yourselves--and do something constructive that dosn't revolve around you for once. And as far as that substitute teacher goes, he most assuredly was dealt with properly. This young man is an adult, if he isn't aware of it, and trying to impress high school students with the fact that he's in a cool band was very childish. The content on the site was inappropriate and revealed his lack of judgement. I am a high school teacher, and our district woud have reacted the same way. He is very lucky to have his job back.

Yes, fascism is the BEST direction for our country to proceed in, isn’t it! Spare me! When corporations take it upon themselves to look into dating sites, like Dr. Phil’s Match.com, or social sites like Facebook, or even Myspace, you have a person’s civil liberties being eroded.

If my job history and performance speaks of professionalism and accomplishment, my personal life has nothing to do with hiring. When corporations can dictate my personal life, it’s time for me to leave corporate life, because I value myself too much for that. I have no intention of ever becoming another puppet, with mindless needs to follow Joe CEO, who is breaking every pedophile law in the world…and it does happen!

You need to not pull up pages on sites like Facebook, if you are bothered by it. Exercise some self control and discipline and overlook that which bothers you. Then, you won’t feel the need to control those surrounding you with a bigger picture attitude in life. Not all of us follow this linear thought process, and the teacher should sue for an intrusion on his civil liberties.

When people are so immature that they can’t pass things up that catch their eye, even though it disgusts them, then we have higher issues than a few drunk gals on Facebook. This happened during the Nazi regime too.

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kylemel

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January 15, 2008, 6:18 pm PST

More for me!

I am a member of Facebook and love it. I have checked out the '30 Reasons Girls Should Call It a Night' Group after being invited to it by a couple of friends of mine. The reason my friends and I have viewed the pictures on this group site are to find humour in the pictures! For us, seeing the stupid things these girls are doing is hilarious! We click through the pages thinking "holy crap I can't believe you got so 'loser-pissed' as to have this happen to you!". Although we think it's funny to see these pictures, we would not think it would be funny to be a part of them. It's degrading and there are people out there laughing at you.

As far as future employers, college recruiters, etc. seeing these pictures and making choices not to hire/admit these women because of their immature behaviour, I say Good! The more jobs and college placements available for the mature, responsible, deserving women in North America.

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coachjoeh

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January 15, 2008, 6:21 pm PST

I understand your point

Quote From: carpeomnius

Part of the things people look at when they are trying to find employees are character, personality...and not just past job performance. When you work for a company, at least in some capacity, you are a representative of that specific company. I'm sure most employers would not want somebody who takes illegal drugs into their system to be a representative of their company. It makes their entire company look bad, especially if they have been proven to take a blind eye towards illegal-drug users who work for them. It is also ridiculous to compare taking illegal drugs into your body and, say, going 5 or so miles over the speed limit. If you, as an employer, hear one of your workers speaking of having sexual intercourse with his wife on the job, then of course you should take appropriate action, whether that be to warn him not to use that language or whatever. However, this all depends on your standards and your company's standards. Perhaps you work at an adult sex toy shop? Then it might be appropriate, in your view, to have such discussions among employees, etc. But most stand-up and respectable work places will not approve of such discussions in the context of on-the-job communications, nor do I believe they should. Perhaps a sensitive customer over-heard such discussions and decided not to shop at that place anymore? That's at least one lost customer because of the foul speech of an employee who is supposed to be representing his or her company.

Please understand mine. I agree, most employers would not want representatives taking illegal drugs. My point was that if I got stoned on a Friday, when I went back to work on Monday, who would know? It would be out of my system, no one would know. If it doesn't affect my job and no one knows, what harm is there? A urine test can pick up pot from 30 days ago. How does what I did even 10 days ago affect how I perform my job today? Again, I no longer smoke it, just playing devil's advocate if you will. Next, I stated it was a stretch between illegal drugs and speeding. My point was if you use as a reason to fire someone that they did something illegal, you have to mean ALL things illegal; you can't pick and choose.

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