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Topic : 05/30 "Butt Out!"

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Created on : Friday, January 11, 2008, 01:07:38 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date 01/18/08) Do you have someone in your life who’s so annoying and frustrating that you just want him or her to go away? What do you do when that person is your ex and the parent of your children? Todd says his ex-wife, Nicholle, needs to butt out of his life, even though they share custody of their two daughters. He says he’s tired of her showing up unannounced, so she can be with the girls when it isn’t her time. Nicholle says Todd and his new wife, Michelle, fail to keep her informed about the girls -- like the time their little girl was in the emergency room. Both parents agree that the girls feel upset every time they have to go to their dad’s house. Cameras capture a typical custody exchange. What is the cause of the chaos? Dr. Phil points out the mistakes these divorced parents are making as he tries to get to the bottom of the threats and name-calling. Can these co-parents learn how to get along with each other for the sake of the kids? Then, meet a mother who hates her son-in-law so much, she refuses to have a relationship with her own daughter unless she divorces him. They face off for the first time in three years. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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June 1, 2008, 7:11 am PDT

05/30 "Butt Out!"

Quote From: cndrlla

I read your post three times, and have to conclude that there's a whole lot of this story that is not being told.


Courts usually side with the mother when it comes to custody issues, and are reluctant to remove a child from their mother.....so I have to surmise that there was a reason why you lost full custody, and why suddenly your ex decided not to allow your daughter to visit or talk to you on the phone. A child does not suddenly go from loving her mother to hating her....why does she say you "were so cruel"?

 

You do not say how old your daughter is, but, you mention "12 years" so I'm guessing she's at least that old and therefore can make up her mind about how she feels about you. However, if she is being fed lies about you, keep in mind that she will be 18 before long and can decide then whether or not she wants to communicate with you. Until then, it doesn't sound like you can do much more than withdraw from this situation.

 

Like I said...there's a lot you've left out so I don't think anyone can make a fair assessment of this situation or give you the advice you requested without much more information.

My daughter is just about to turn 12 years old. The judge got tired of having the case in court. My ex would continue going to court complaining about small details that were untrue. He is very manpulative.

Christmas when my ex was on his way to  pick her up she was crying she did not want to go with him. She was scared of what he was going to do to her. She said she was going to lock herself in her room and not go. I told her if she didn't want to go with him that she had to stand up to him and say that but she was not going to hide from him or the situation. She did not like my answer.I let him know that she did not want to go with him on the phone a few days later and I think that angered him.

Part of the history - When she was four my ex told me he was remarrying and his new wife would have more rights than me because she was married to him. When she was 5 he had his wife be the volunteer at my duaghter's class and her girl scout troop leader. When she was 7 I had to get a court order for my duaghter to attend my wedding. When she was 8 I had to get a court order for my daughter to see my mother dying of cancer. When she was 9 I had to get a court order for my daughter to attend my mothers funeral. All while having joint custody because these things were to occur on "my time" and I should not schedule events on "his time."

 
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June 1, 2008, 9:24 am PDT

05/30 "Butt Out!"

Quote From: cndrlla

Oh, here's a message for Todd:  Awww...you don't like paying child support....TOUGH!!  You're ex didn't make those babies all by herself, so you don't get to get off scott free just because you decide you don't like her anymore! There's no free lunch!

 

You aren't paying child support just to your ex, you dingbat! You are paying for your children to eat, be clothed, have a roof over their heads, medical care and all the other things that go along with having children....or maybe you'd feel better if the state took care of them and they all live in poverty on welfare?

 

I see your new wife is pregnant. I sure hope you don't get tired of her one of these days and then gripe about paying her child support, too.

 

Here's a thought: if you don't want to support your children, DON'T HAVE THEM!!

 

Man up, little boy, and shut up about the child support and all the other petty things you ALL whined about on the show!

 

You ALL need to love those children more than you hate each other....make a peaceful life for THEM and put your own selfish desires on the back burner until they are grown!

I believe that the point that is trying to be made here is that both parents have the children 50% of the time.  In this case, there should be no support paid to the mother.  They are each providing 50% if the care and support to the children, which cancels out the need for child support.  If my husband and I ever split up and we shared 50% custody, I would not expect child support.  Also, to respond to Tracy here as well, you are so wrong about dead beat fathers being a rare thing.  It is very common.  I could tell you so many stories about people that I know who have children with men that do not pay support.  There is no excuse for this.  My own best friend has a son with a man that does not pay support for his child.  She is suffering because of it, because she does not make enough money to support him by herself.  And, yes she works full time.  This topic is so important because so many people just blow it off.  These are our children for God's sake.
 
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June 1, 2008, 9:38 am PDT

05/30 "Butt Out!"

Quote From: roaringredhead

Elizabeth - I've been there when it comes to bad mouthing a spouse to Mom.  My Mom got upset with hubby as well.  I realized right away the mess I made.  I had complete ownership over all of it.  I made sure never to make the same mistake.  My Mom loves her son-in-law.  It's sad that for a week or two she was so upset with him. A lot of what I shared with my mom was purely emotional, and not true to what was going on.  In reflection, I was acting childish running to Mommy so I could get what I wanted.  I finally got what I wanted, but it came with a cost. 

 

Alberto - You won't change until you take ownership for your infidelity.  I think you did cheat on Elizabeth. Diana and Elizabeth believe you cheated as well.  What people think sometimes is more important than what is true.  Obviously, something happened...tell the truth.  

 

 

 

 

I have two sons-in-law and a daughter-in-law. I make it a point NEVER to allow my children to discuss with me any arguments they may have with their spouses for the following reasons:

 

#1: it's not my business.

 

#2: they will make up and forget what the argument was about, but, being their mother,  I  may not be so willing to forgive and forget a spouse's boorishness, and that may change my relationship with them.

 

#3: see #1     

 
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June 2, 2008, 10:58 am PDT

05/30 "Butt Out!"

Quote From: roaringredhead

Todd - Calling Nicholle names and not treating her with an ounce of respect, I'm sure is hurting Nicholle's self concept,  but it also is affecting the children's authentic self.  The girls are learning vicariously by what you are saying and how you are feeling toward their mother.  They obviously love their mother. Don't disrespect Nicholle infront of them.  Get the "stupid" label off your phone. 

 

Personally, I do not believe in corporal punishment.  It is obvious that you do believe corporal punishment is an acceptable form of discipline.  Yes, I heard Michelle say, "I've never seen Todd beat the girls with a belt."  Dr. Phil should have went further, and asked if Michelle's ever seen Todd spank the girls or use any form of corporal punishment.  Belt, spoon, boot, coat hanger, hand....it's all the same. 

 

It's obvious that Nicholle is NOT on the same page when it comes to discipline.  I would recommend sitting down and getting on the same page, because as long as all the adults are not united the children will play you against eachother.  "Mom, I don't want to go to Daddy's.  Daddy spanks usDaddy sometimes uses a belt to spank us."  I don't blame Nicholle for checking in on the girls by calling from time to time. If I heard that from my child, I would go to that judge and ask for full custody. 

 

Michelle - "There is totally no reason to know how the kid's day is going." Are you serious!  Anyone that is a parent would want to know how their child's day is going.  Wait until your baby is born, and a relative keeps your newborn for a week or two.  I would love to see how many times you end up calling throughout the day.  I'm married to my daughter's father, and when I'm running errands or out with the girls you better believe I call to check in.  My husband does the same.  Obviously, you and Todd created some trust issues by not telling Nicholle that her child was in the hospital.  I am so glad that Dr. Phil called Todd on that issue. 

 

Nicholle - Get on the same page with Todd and Michelle concerning discipline before the girls go back over to Daddy's house.  I'm sure that if you both were on the same page concerning respect, discipline, communication and parenting styles that the transition from one home to the other would be much smoother for the girls.   

 

Good luck.

 

 

roaringredhead-  I would just like to correct a few things..

 

 Todd never has never called Nicholle names to her. If she was called a name it was done in the privacy of his own home. Never did he call her names to her face, which if you were paying attention to the whole show you wouldve heard him say that. He doesn't disrespect their mother in front of them. There are a million other names that couldve been programmed into the phone other than stupid, not that big of a deal. There is also nothing wrong with a spanking from time to time, im sure many on here can agree with that. It may not be the form of punishment that you use, and thats ok. Of course kids would rather have their "time outs" than a spanking. And it wasnt a time to time phone call, it was an everyday thing where the main focus of the phone call was to tell the girls that they only have to stay at their daddys for so many more days. thats healthy??

The comment made was that there was no reason for an everyday phone call when all we are trying to do is spend our time with the kids.  We never called on an everyday basis to talk when they are with her. We have jobs, we have other responsibilities as well.

Of course its not fair for any child to have to go through a divorce. Some people (maybe like yourself) may have an easier time with the adjustment. Not everyone is perfect and I think that we showed our love and devotion to the kids by seeking out the help from dr phil that we so desperatly needed. Families are work, but blended families are even more work. If you had to walk a day in our shoes im sure that you would be singing a different tune. We have all come along way and are proud of our progress. Its sad that so many people think they can just run their mouth and critizise others without knowing the whole background for one and for two, think that they know all. Well the truth is that nobody does and that parenting takes work and sometime you will stumble. Lucky for us we were able to get back up.

 
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June 2, 2008, 9:48 pm PDT

Butt out!

While watching this the other day, the second part with the mother, daughter and son-in-law really bothered me and brought up feelings I thought I had overcome.

 

I have been with my husband for 7 years we have two children and are expecting our third this summer.  When we first met in Nov. of 2000 and in Feb of 2001 we found out we were expecting our first child..quick..I know but we were excited either way! When we told everyone, we met with a little bit of opposition from my husbands side (too soon, too young (20years each) but regardless they knew we were happy so they were happy for us.  My family decided to go the other route. From my stepdad saying I should have an abortion, to my mother saying leave him, live with us, go back to your ex. We were harassed constantly by both phone and email for the entire 9 months. My mother would say things like when you need me I won't be there since he is there to I think of you as dead since it is easier for me to handle that than to know that you are with him. They wrote letters to my husband's boss, high school teacher, pastor, parents and grandparents saying things like "he drugged our daughter and got her knocked up so she would stay with him" They made what should have been a happy time, very stressful. We had our number changed and moved and they still found a way to find us.  When I was in labour I had my mother come (what daughter doesn't want her mother there) well she wouldn't come near me unless my husband and his family left, she made a scene in the waiting room and forced her way into the room as soon as she found out our daughter was born. Cut to our wedding, no one in my family showed up expect for my parents and sister they sat at the back, again caused a scene and then as soon as the ceremony was over (20 mins) they were gone. When we found out we were pregnant again the first words out of my mother's mouth were "don't you two believe in birthcontrol" yet another stressing pregnancy. I had a miscarriage a year and a half later and so I called my mother to try and lean on her for some help and advice and all she said was its better you two didn't have a 3rd child, you don't need one.

Now here we are 7 years later, pregnant for a fourth time, no congrats, just more bitterness. We recently moved to be closer to my husband's family and she has outright refused to come and visit even if my husband is not there. She calls only when she wants something and treats my son as if he isn't there (as he looks like his father and our daughter looks like me) I don't hear from anyone else in my family as she as made sure that everyone hates us. My sister, finally getting a little dose of what I have gone through has finally started talking to me again. I get a phone call once a year from my stepdad asking to talk to the kids on Christmas and that's it!

 

We have tried just about everything we can think of to try and make things right and good among us but nothing works and everytime a special occasion arises I get my hopes up thinking this time will be different and then I get crushed when we go out of our way to try and attend the occasions. I am tired of feeling this way and it has caused occasional agruments between my husband and I. I implore the mothers and fathers to please just let your children live their own lives, be there to support them through thick and thin sometimes they do know what is best for themselves. After watching, I am so glad that I have never vented to my  mother about some of our arguments, nothing like adding feul to a fire-I keep a journal and it gets me through everything. I just wish my family would grow up and accept the fact that my husband and our children are here to stay, so my kids could know their only aunt and their other set of grandparents since they are not only hurting me, they are also hurting my kids and themselves, with all the stuff they have already missed out.

 
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June 3, 2008, 2:06 pm PDT

I can relate

I have dealt with a very similar situation for the past 9 years. My ex and I got along better right after he left the home and actually handled the care of our children jointly and as co-parents. It was not until he moved in with his than girlfriend and now wife did thing go array. I knew to much (he would be the one to tell me), I didn't need to know anything about my children when they were with him and he had no communication with me. The scenerio would have been fine if my children did not come home with projects undone, homework not completed during his week or attitude that C's and D's were okay. I felt like the divorce was between the 2 of us and not them. There should have been no reason why our children could not have seen us conversing nicely, sharing their accomplishments together and participating in school functions and teacher meetings as needed. Unfortunately because my ex felt he was paying me to care for his children he chose to do quite the opposite. Twice he told them he did not want to see them again, never showed at their activities or showed any involvement with their schoolwork. So now I am dealing with teenagers that have been taught school is not important with no help from him. My ex felt there was no need to pay for the children because of the career that I hold. The only ones that suffered here was the children.
 
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June 4, 2008, 1:00 pm PDT

Fast Forward to HS Graduation

My son of an extremely contentious divorce just graduated from high school and is heading off to college this fall. What a joyous time, but how strongly it brings up the issues again of a split family.  Grandparents that don't speak, younger children of a now-divorced affair, a litany of paper work from a three year court battle that happened four years after our split.  Both of us parents having only roughly half of the childhood memories of our wonderful sons.  Trying to heal wounds that have festered for years, now with more urgency. Trying to let go and forgive, heady stuff...

 

 

 
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July 18, 2008, 7:21 pm PDT

05/30 "Butt Out!"

Quote From: dotinks

The mom that hates her son-in-law has all my sympathy.  If the daughter loves him so much, why did they run off and elope.  I did the same thing years ago.  I KNEW that it was wrong and that my parents wouldn't approve. It felt wrong when I was doing it and it did eventually end up in divorce.  My daughter could be this mom's daughter.  She is so "in love" with this guy that she is livng with.  They aren't married yet because he is already married.  His wife is demanding a divorce and I know that as soon as those papers are finalized, my daughter will marry this idiot.  He is sneaking, lying, manipulative, and doesn't appreciate anything that is done for him.  I try to keep the line of communication open between my daughter and myself, but I can only talk to her when HE allows it.  He has isolated her far away and strands her in the house with no vehicle and only spends money on what he wants.  So I have to call his cell phone to try to talk to her.  It absolutely breaks my heart that she is listening to him instead of everyone else.  But I've stepped back and decided to allow him to cut his own throat with her.  I just wish that he would hurry up and get it done!
i'm sorry to hear that your merriage didn't last. I'm aslo sad to hear that your daughter is in a relationship like that! You see my husband(the daughter that love him so much) isn't anything like what your future son inlaw is like. My husband is great to to me and takes great care of us! we now have a baby on the way and no that he will be a wonderful caring father.
 
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July 18, 2008, 7:46 pm PDT

05/30 "Butt Out!"

Quote From: kbgsask

While watching this the other day, the second part with the mother, daughter and son-in-law really bothered me and brought up feelings I thought I had overcome.

 

I have been with my husband for 7 years we have two children and are expecting our third this summer.  When we first met in Nov. of 2000 and in Feb of 2001 we found out we were expecting our first child..quick..I know but we were excited either way! When we told everyone, we met with a little bit of opposition from my husbands side (too soon, too young (20years each) but regardless they knew we were happy so they were happy for us.  My family decided to go the other route. From my stepdad saying I should have an abortion, to my mother saying leave him, live with us, go back to your ex. We were harassed constantly by both phone and email for the entire 9 months. My mother would say things like when you need me I won't be there since he is there to I think of you as dead since it is easier for me to handle that than to know that you are with him. They wrote letters to my husband's boss, high school teacher, pastor, parents and grandparents saying things like "he drugged our daughter and got her knocked up so she would stay with him" They made what should have been a happy time, very stressful. We had our number changed and moved and they still found a way to find us.  When I was in labour I had my mother come (what daughter doesn't want her mother there) well she wouldn't come near me unless my husband and his family left, she made a scene in the waiting room and forced her way into the room as soon as she found out our daughter was born. Cut to our wedding, no one in my family showed up expect for my parents and sister they sat at the back, again caused a scene and then as soon as the ceremony was over (20 mins) they were gone. When we found out we were pregnant again the first words out of my mother's mouth were "don't you two believe in birthcontrol" yet another stressing pregnancy. I had a miscarriage a year and a half later and so I called my mother to try and lean on her for some help and advice and all she said was its better you two didn't have a 3rd child, you don't need one.

Now here we are 7 years later, pregnant for a fourth time, no congrats, just more bitterness. We recently moved to be closer to my husband's family and she has outright refused to come and visit even if my husband is not there. She calls only when she wants something and treats my son as if he isn't there (as he looks like his father and our daughter looks like me) I don't hear from anyone else in my family as she as made sure that everyone hates us. My sister, finally getting a little dose of what I have gone through has finally started talking to me again. I get a phone call once a year from my stepdad asking to talk to the kids on Christmas and that's it!

 

We have tried just about everything we can think of to try and make things right and good among us but nothing works and everytime a special occasion arises I get my hopes up thinking this time will be different and then I get crushed when we go out of our way to try and attend the occasions. I am tired of feeling this way and it has caused occasional agruments between my husband and I. I implore the mothers and fathers to please just let your children live their own lives, be there to support them through thick and thin sometimes they do know what is best for themselves. After watching, I am so glad that I have never vented to my  mother about some of our arguments, nothing like adding feul to a fire-I keep a journal and it gets me through everything. I just wish my family would grow up and accept the fact that my husband and our children are here to stay, so my kids could know their only aunt and their other set of grandparents since they are not only hurting me, they are also hurting my kids and themselves, with all the stuff they have already missed out.

Hi, this is the daughter... i am so sorry to heat that you are going through this, and i know how tough it is(obviously) your right about what you said about not telling your mom any of the arguements you've had with him cuz thats all they end up knowing adn just as dr.phil said it's only poisening the well, but being young and use to mom being there thats all i really knew cuz as she said she really was my best friend. At least the good thing with me is at least my dad still talks to me (never about my husband, but at least he does) there are also many ppl on my side of the family that i still communicate with but like we used to. My husbands family absolutely adores me and love me as if i were there own which makes me feel good!! Now i don't have any kids yet, but i do have one on the way now, and let me tell you... my mom still doesn't want anything to do with me and the few times we have become in contact w/each other still tells me to leave him while being pregnent with his kid, and even called my unborn kid an @sswho*e!!!! I am also afraid of what my kdi will be missing out on as for as not getting to meet the other side of the family (mainly grandma) I want my mom in that delivery room soooo bad but my hub brought up a good point, he said this is our precious moment and by her being there it's only  going to cause probs and we dont want that, and at first i was upset cuz like u sed who doesnt want there mom in the delivery room with them, but he's right.... as much as i don't want him to be he is. I just wish my mom could see how happy i really am 
 
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