Topic : 01/28 The Baggy Pants Debate

After watching the Baggy Pants show, I'd have to say that some of those folks need to be much more concerned about children seeing how incredibly rude they behaved! Seriously.  I mean, occassionally people get carried away (although, it is usually over very personal and very emotional issues that they are dealing with), but I found it to be utterly ridiculous that a bunch of adults couldn't have a civilized conversation on national TV. I am also a bit disappointed in you, Dr. Phil, for allowing them to treat you and your show with such disrespect.  Honestly, I don't see that much got solved by the very obnoxious discussion. I certainly wasn't enlightened by anything I heard.  What a shame.

And one other thing......  why was the discussion focused solely on the boys and baggy pants? Because, I have to say, the only thing about so-called "fashion" that I dislike more than boys in baggy pants, are girls with their thong showing!!! UGH!

Thanks for letting me vent!

Dr. Phil,

I am a retired Police Officer with 22 years experience.  Whenever I had occasion to speak with a young man who was wearing baggy pants, I was very concerned for my and my partners safety.  I was also concerned for the wellfare of the young man wearing the pants because we did not know who he was, what he was about and what he was capable of doing.  We would be on a heightened defensive and would often come accross to the young person(s)  as rough or mean and uncaring.  We did not know if that person was carring a concealed weapon (firearm or anything else).  We would not allow that person to touch their pants, or go near their pockets.  They were far more susceptible to patdowns and many times searches because of what was felt under their clothing.  THIS WAS NOT PROFILING!  This applied to all ethnicities in baggy pants.  My biggest concern is that the young person would be wrongly shot being seriously hurt or killed because of a silly fashion statement.   Please express these concerns to these young people, because the last thing a Police Officer wants to happen is to have to use our duty weapon to (shoot or otherwise injure) ANYONE needlessly.  Also, many times we would see a demeanor of defiance and disrespect coming from the baggy pants people even more so than with others which we came into contact.  This also only heightens our guard/concern about the person with which we are in contact. 

Young people think the police are all out to get them.  I want all people - young and older alike - to realize that a police officer's primary concern is making it home safely after his/her duty shift.without incident.  I took the job as a way to help people, not hurt, harrass or otherwise bully anyone.      

The baggy pants issue was lost in the debate.  The debate clearly became an issue of defending group rights.  African Americans ,Gays, and the hip hop community were in defense of their feelings and rights.  Baggy pants is not the issue.  Saggin' is the major issue.  I have no problem with baggy pants as long as they are waist high.  I am not in favor of a law to enforce how pants are to be worn.  However, I will not support the right of any person or group attempting to defend the degradation of our youth.  It is a matter of respect.  Respecting one self and the rights of others.  So if defending saggin' then in my opinion you are defending disrespect.   Disrespect for parents that do not want their children to sag.  Youth only see this as a means of being accepted.  Adults have a responsibility to raise children.  Hip Hop artist as well as all other members of society have a responsibility to be positive role models for our youth.  Telling parents to just cut the television off is irresponsible.  I understand that appearance is 90% perception.  If you do not care about your appearance then it is perceived that you don't care.  The father said "choose your battles."  For African American young men, this is a battle worth fighting.  It's not only an appearance issue, it is also an attitude issue.  The attitude that starts with "it's nobody's business", creates a nonchalant attitude toward education, laws, and respect.  The young man's response should have been a wake up call for the father but he was no listening.  I think "Pull em up" is a crusade worth continuing.  Help save our youth.  

It is a mine-field. What is proper clothing?

Some European countries ban headscarves because they want to clamp down on religious fanatics, but where do you set the boundary between decency and persecution of people, who happens to thinks otherwise.

Should we not be able to contain that some people seems to dress otherwise?

When I see bans on baggy pants, my mind also brings videos from Iran on before my eyes, where women are hit by policeofficers because they can see a little of their hair.

Is it not the same?

Everyday I am more amazed at what other people are trying to impose on our freedoms.  I am sure that there are other issues in these communities that need worked on besides what people are wearing.  I believe that trends come and go - just like those really big bell bottom pants I used to wear.

I am a 50 year old woman who has twin 16 year-old boys.  I am their parent and believe that I am the one who should say what is right and what is wrong as far as what my children are wearing.  I am not particularly fond of boys walking around with their pants down but I don't feel I should be able to judge someone because of the clothes that they wear.  I am overweight and like to wear dark clothing to help hide some of myself.  I sure hope that dark clothing doesn't become offensive to others.  Now that I think of it, I really dislike the color green - maybe I will start a campaign to ban green clothing.    Come on people, where would we draw the line??

As a former Law Enforcement officer, I found baggy  pants were in our favor. Have you ever seen a kid attempting to run away from you after committing a crime while wearing baggy pants. Well, it looks like he has a bad case of the hemroids and when he jumps the fence he is all mine to take to jail, they never make it.  The baggy pants are a good "asset" to law enforcement.

But if the boys that are going to date either of my daughters come to my house with their back sides hanging out of their pants, they are going to have a very lonely date alone.

I believe that the rapper said it best ...that change should begin in the home.  If parents don't like this style of clothing or any other for their boy or girl...DON"T BUY IT!  That is what happens in my home.  While I still provide for all their needs, they will dress and behave in a manner that I deem appropriate.  I want my boys to have their own sense of identity.  However, I am a firm believer that their appearance is a reflection of my parenting.  I do not want  myself or my children to be stereo typed one way or another even though in today's sociaty, every one is stereo typed one way or the other.  I can only hope that the morals and values that I have raised them with will prevail.

As far as government intervention in this debate...city officals need to stay out of it.  What is decent or indecent is one's own perception.  City, state and federal government monies would be better spent on resolving real problems faced in today's world.  

As an adult, the baggy jean looks stupid to me and gives me the perception that the people wearing them are of lower class with little respect for themselves or others.  I was not raised in a time when showing your underware was cool.  I do not enjoy looking at another person's underware.  I understand that this is considered fashion, where I would not agree with that term. As a child of the 80's, I wore too tight, ripped up and bleached jeans that my parents along with others didn't like either.  As the father put it..."once the chiild grows up, the pants will come up."  So hopefully in the coming year, a new fashion tread will start to take the place of the current. 

I may get blasted for this, but here goes:

If I were African American (and male) I would want to dissociate myself from the fashion sense of a thug fresh out of the joint.  It perpetuates negative stereotypes and I think enhances racial profiling.  Since this fad arose out of prison, police could make negative assumptions that  would land me in prison.  Dress for the life you want, not necessarily like you're serving 3-5.

The positive aspects about the law are that 1) It would protect the public from indecent exposure (whether intentional or not),  2) It may curtail negative, blue collar, and "gangster" stereotypes used to disparage a group of people

The negative aspects of the law/ordinance is that 1) Is it right for the government to regulate what is covered up?  Should we be allowed to walk around nude?  Where is the line drawn, and how much regulation is too much? 2) Would making it illegal just make it  more of a fad?  3) If you're going to put a stop to baggy pants, why not low-rise jeans on women that show thongs underneath?  It's essentially the same thing, so why is it not okay for one group, and okay for women?  Can you say "sexist"?!

I'm not going to miss this fad if it goes....It's demeaning to the people that wear it and on some level is a bit rascist and sexist by saying that it's cool for a young man (esp a young African American), to wear essentially a prison fashion.  But people wear it anyway....sigh, i'd hoped that this 10+ year old fad had gone the way of the dinosaur.