Topic : 07/24 Behind Closed Doors

  It is just amazing to me how people can watch a show and be so quick to make judgements that have an affect on someones' life.  You are hearing simplifed facts not all of the details.  You were not in the mothers shoes.  You do not know ALL of the details but you are ALL so quick to condemn her. 

  Do you all really believe it is so healthy for Heidi to continue her relationship with the abuser and to forgive him??  That Heidi and Susan should not try to resolve their past and try to heal their differences??  To heal is to forgive. 

  I have gone through and read these comments and agree with some and amazed at others.  For example, a 27 yr old writing in saying she was 27 and she would know what to do.  Well gees lets think about this statement..........it is 2008, twenty-five years later from the time of the incident.  We have the internet, we have tv talk shows, we have so much more accessible to us now and they now teach this in school.  I have to agree with this mother that most likely she did NOT know.  Maybe she was naive to this illness.  The exposure was not so readily accessible and basically it was pretty tabu.

  The purpose for being on this show for these two women was to try to "heal" and the only thing I saw that this program did was bring MORE TRAUMA in their lives for them.  I have not seen anyone at all really trying to help them.

  If you listened closely Susan tried to tell Dr Phil that Heidi was continuing a relationship with John and Heidi completely denied it.  But then when John appeared he confirmed tha he talkes to Heidi and they have seen one another.  How can that possibly be a good thing??  This abuser needs to be TOTALLY out of Heidi's life for her to ever completely heal.  She will never get over her past until she gets him out.

  These women need help.  By everyone sitting here bashing the Mom and saying Heidi does not NEED her is not HELPING!!  You are all only making matters worse.

   I am sure every one of you have your own skeletons so do you need to degrade others to justify your own.  You want to make comments do something positive to help these two instead of hindering the healing process its quite obvious they need it!!

As a survivor of biological paternal mental and sexual abuse and the mother of an abused child-(by my husband/her step-father);  I am shocked at the response of the posters and Dr. Phil's attack on the mother.  Growing up I swore I would kill anyone who touched my daughters.  Guess what the SOB is still alive.   Why didn't I kill him??  Why did I continue to believe lies about nothing happened??  I thought I was being peranoid and imagining things.  I thought I was just being suspicious because of what happened to me.   I thought it was my fault I didn't trust men-(my husband).  It was me, not him.  By the time she told me something happened;  I was so mentally screwed up I didn't  know truth from lies; right from wrong.

I agree we did not hear the mom on tv  say "I'm sorry-I f----up" on national television.  It does not mean she has never said it to her daughter.  Perhaps she has tried or wanted to and the daughter never gave her the opportunity. 

There are no winners here.  Blame doesn't change the past.  My mother stayed with my father until he died, why??  He had molested all five of his daughters?  How could she?  I still have a relationship with my mother.  At 52 years old I know how things were back then. 

How could I have stayed with the SOB who molested my daughter?  I don't know.  At least my daughter was able to go live with her biological father and get away from him and me.  It took me another 7 years to get away from the abusive SOB. 

Today I have the strength...I could kill him if I saw him...I'm not sure me sitting in jail the rest of my life would solve anything...but maybe it could save another young girl.  Back then it took him putting a gun to my head for me to wake up and get out.  Domestic abuse is such a complicated thing and is done by both abuser and abusee.

To end this---if you are reading this and are in a similar situation---here is how it ended for me.  None of my three children have anything to do with me.  It hurts like hell but I understand why.  I have asked for their for giveness and not received it.  I have three grandchildren (that I know of) and never see them.

It is not your fault--GET HELP--I was to embarassed to get help.  I had no support structure..that is the first thing an abuser get rid of.  Now I suffer and worse I know my children have to live with it and my grandchildren may never know their grandmother.

No one wants to hear these stories or except that this happens.  IT DOES! 

Jamie, you are the greatest.  If you lived here in NYC, I would give you a big hug. 

 I disowned my father when I was 18 (I don't think he molested me, but one doctor said he might have, and maybe I was very young, or maybe I blocked it out), and my mother and I heard he died a few months after the fact.  I didn't feel that bad when I heard about it, but I didn't feel free of him either.  I always thought if he was dead, I would feel like a weight was gone or something.  But it felt the same as when he was alive (probably because I hadn't seen him in nearly 20 years at the time).  Funny thing though, slowly, as time passed, after he died, a few years later, more and more, I realized I had been blaming him for all these things, when actually, my mother was even worse, only in a subtle "What did I do?" kind of way, just full of her own ego.  I realized how much my father and I actually had in common as people, and I realized I couldn't hate someone who had so much in common with me.  It would be like hating myself.  And then I gradually realized I didn't hate him anymore.  I realized the things that made me mad at him, were things he couldn't help, and he never meant to be a bad father.  So mentally, in my mind, I came to peace with him.  But not my mother.  Not yet at least. 

Jamie, I would love to email with you, but I don't want to put my email address out on this board for everyone to see. 

I would need to hear MUCH more about why Heidi speaks to John.  I know a great deal about sexual abuse, unfortunately, and in the case of a young girl being molested, it is NOT unusual for her to fall in love with him...but hate him at the same time.  Look, fact...children are sexual beings, sex feels good...so John, may have made Heidi feel good while destroying her.

Unless Heidi has had INTENSE therapy and came to a place where she could forgive John, for a "positve" reason, I think she is talking to him because he still has a hold on her...and THAT is the WORST thing that can continue. 

She doesn't forgive her mother...John had the stronger bond...it's really so twisted, but this is NOT uncommon.

I do not "buy it" that is all O.K. because he said he was sorry, or because he admitted to it.  Heidi needed to hear it from HIM...so that is a reason why she will talk to him. 

Healing...easy to say...not easy to do.  Unless John is out of Heidi's life, healing is just not possible...the cancer is still in her.  The hold is not broken...BREAK IT OFF!  That is what ANY competant therapist would advise...this girl was brainwashed by the second most powerful drive of our species...sex...and it went on for ten years?????  Separate them if it can be done...hard to enforce now that Heidi is an adult, but IF she gets into productive therapy, she will be brought to a place where she sees the need to break from John.

After that, her issues with her mother will be up for grabs...

I have heard where victims DO forgive the abuser, but it is for closure...to sever all control he has...like a release...not saying Oh, that's O.K.  One is healthy, the other is continuing the cycle.

There may be ways, if both women are ready, that a competant thrapist will bring these two women to a place where the past can be left behind...not forgotten, just looking at the big picture...and trying to heal.

I'm really NOT a judgemental person, yet if you see your husband performing oral sex on your daughter...you allow him to have access to her...which he obviously did for quite a few years...seriously...what do you want me to say?  

My only advise would be to look inside yourself for your HONEST reasons...do it with a professional.  Get it straight in your mind, then tell her...with remorse and repentance.  If she picks it up, you are coming out of a long dark tunnel, if not, you tried your best when you felt that you were able.  That's the best I can say...

except that John has to go, and only Heidi can do that.  If she doesn't I fear for her future life with anyone.

Are you aware that there are statutes of limitation on rape cases?

This was not a child on the set, she was an adult with children...the one that should have been pressing charges didn't.

Don't kill the messenger folks...

Dr. Phil had them on his show to help them heal themselves and each other with forgiveness...

Just my thoughts

Love, Light and Peace

Tonie

My daughter was sexually abused by her stepfather from the age of 11 to the age of 15.  There are so many things that happen in this family dynamic.  Not all stories are the same.  I'd like to tell you mine.

When I met my ex, my children were 5 (son) and 2 (daughter).  We had been living with a friend, having been basically dropped on his doorstep by my ex husband,  and he was Mr. Wonderful.  He provided a home, loved the children and was everything we had ever wanted or needed.

We both agreed that we did not want "strangers" raising the children, so we worked opposite shifts.  He worked days, and I worked nights.  Our family was happy.

When my daugther was 13, she started cutting.  Some of the victims of abuse will know about this.  It's a defense mechanism that some kids use.  When they can focus on the pain they are feeling from the cutting, they can block out the pain they are going through from the abuse.  I had always had a very close and loving relationship with my daughter.  I asked her numerous times why she was doing this to herself,  and she would tell me she didn't know.  Counselors I had taken her to had put it down to the fact that her biological father had basically abandoned her, and when he did contact her, it was usually a dressing down for her not calling on HIS birthday, or Father's Day.  Of course I don't even need hands to count the number of birthday cards or Christmas gifts he gave her, because it was zero.  I would tell my daughter I was sorry her father was this way but it had nothing to do with her, it was his problem, and he was the one missing out on a wonderful, talented, smart and beautiful child.  At the same time I noticed her relationship with her step father was deteriorating, but put it down to "teenager syndrome".  How I wish I wasn't so blind.  But you never  think it could happen to you.

When she was 15, she was still cutting, and one time, she cut a little too deep.  Her best friend and my best friend went to the ER with us.  Once they had established that my daughter had NOT been trying to commit suicide, they released her, and made an appointment to see a crisis counselor the next day.

We were on the way to the counselor's office when my daughter asked me to listen to a song by Good Charlotte.  The lyrics were:

This world
This world is cold
But you don't
You don't have to go
You're feeling sad, you're feeling lonely, and no one seems to care
Your mother's gone and your father hits you
This pain you cannot bear.

I turned to my daughter and asked her "Is this what's happening while I'm at work?"  She said, "Not hitting.... no."  I pulled into the next parking lot I saw and told her, "Start talking."  She told me that her stepfather started abusing her when she was 11.  He had sexual intercourse with her numerous times, forced her into oral sex, and had her perform oral sex on him.  I looked into my daughter's eyes, and immediatly pulled her into my arms.  I asked her why she never told me.  She said "I didn't want to hurt you."  I said "Honey, you tell me everything!" She said quietly "I couldn't tell you this."  I turned the car around and went straight home and confronted my husband.  Of course, he denied it.  One look in his eyes and I knew he was lying.  You have no idea what goes through your head at that point.  He used to collect knives.  Decorative, but still sharp.  My first thought was "Grab that knife on the shelf and slit his throat!!"  The second thought, and the one that overrode that one was "You can't protect your daughter from jail!" I picked up the phone, dialed 911, and had him removed from my home, pressed charges, and am happy to say he is in prison serving 5-10 years.  He must also register as a sex offender for the rest of his life, and there is a LIFETIME Protection order against him, not only for my daughter, but for me, my son, and anyone in my family.

While we were in counseling after the fact, my daughter told me that he never "hurt" her.  What she meant by that was that he never hit or was "violent" with her.  This is the reason he wasn't convicted under Megan's Law.  What he did to her was much more sinister in my opinion.  He used her love for me against her.  He always told her how much it would hurt me if I ever found out.  She was "protecting" me.  At the same time, he would set her up to lie.  For instance, he would give her money, but tell her not to tell me.  When she would have something new, I would question her where she got it.  She would say she "found" it, or she "borrowed it from a friend".  When I would accuse her of lying to me, he would chime right in, set her punishment, and say, "I can't believe she's lying about this."  What he was doing, I found out through some support groups, was setting the groundwork in case she did tell.  He started making me doubt my own child's credibility, so when she finally told, he said, "How can you believe her, you know how much she lies!"  You have to understand, I  WANTED her to be lying.  Not because I had any feelings left for him, but because I didn't want her to have gone through what she did.

I have to be completely honest with you here.  The whole time my daughter was telling me this, inside my head I was hearing "NO NO NO NO!! This isn't possible, he isn't like this!"  But as I looked into my child's face, I knew.  I also knew I would do ANYTHING it took to get her away from him.  As Dr. Phil said, I would have lived under a bridge if that's what I needed to do to protect my child.  

For all of you abuse survivors (I refuse to call you victims.  You are SURVIVORS. BE PROUD OF THAT!) you have no idea how much your stories broke my heart.  I was in tears reading your accounts, especially the ones who didn't have the support of your mothers.  I am SO sorry.  I wish I could meet each and every one of you and wrap my arms around you and give you the comfort and solace that you didn't get from the one person in the world who should never have broken your trust.  I'm not saying I did everything right.  I'm saying I did what was best and right for my daughter when she needed me the most.  Just like I have since the day she was born, and continue to do to this day.  She is now 20 years old, and is still the wonderful, talented, beautiful child she was.  Yes, there are scars.  There always will be.  But she has NEVER blamed me, she has NEVER played the pity card.  She is and continues to be a joy to everyone she meets. 

I will also be forever grateful to her best friend.   She had told her what was happening.  The night we were in the ER, she and my daughter were talking across the room, and she told my daughter, "You have a choice. Either you tell your mom, or I will."  I think that was the catalyst that had my daughter tell me. 

Just as an update.  Her abuser was eligible for a parole hearing November of 2008.  We received a letter from the Victim's Advocate office informing us that he would not be granted a hearing because he has not completed the mandatory Child Sexual Predator's classes that are required for his parole.  So he will not be eligible until he takes those classes.  I hope he never does and has to serve his full sentence. 

I know this is a long post.  Thanks for reading it.

As a survivor of biological paternal mental and sexual abuse and the mother of an abused child-(by my husband/her step-father);  I am shocked at the response of the posters and Dr. Phil's attack on the mother.  Growing up I swore I would kill anyone who touched my daughters.  Guess what the SOB is still alive.   Why didn't I kill him??  Why did I continue to believe lies about nothing happened??  I thought I was being peranoid and imagining things.  I thought I was just being suspicious because of what happened to me.   I thought it was my fault I didn't trust men-(my husband).  It was me, not him.  By the time she told me something happened;  I was so mentally screwed up I didn't  know truth from lies; right from wrong.

I agree we did not hear the mom on tv  say "I'm sorry-I f----up" on national television.  It does not mean she has never said it to her daughter.  Perhaps she has tried or wanted to and the daughter never gave her the opportunity. 

There are no winners here.  Blame doesn't change the past.  My mother stayed with my father until he died, why??  He had molested all five of his daughters?  How could she?  I still have a relationship with my mother.  At 52 years old I know how things were back then. 

How could I have stayed with the SOB who molested my daughter?  I don't know.  At least my daughter was able to go live with her biological father and get away from him and me.  It took me another 7 years to get away from the abusive SOB. 

Today I have the strength...I could kill him if I saw him...I'm not sure me sitting in jail the rest of my life would solve anything...but maybe it could save another young girl.  Back then it took him putting a gun to my head for me to wake up and get out.  Domestic abuse is such a complicated thing and is done by both abuser and abusee.

To end this---if you are reading this and are in a similar situation---here is how it ended for me.  None of my three children have anything to do with me.  It hurts like hell but I understand why.  I have asked for their for giveness and not received it.  I have three grandchildren (that I know of) and never see them.

It is not your fault--GET HELP--I was to embarassed to get help.  I had no support structure..that is the first thing an abuser get rid of.  Now I suffer and worse I know my children have to live with it and my grandchildren may never know their grandmother.

No one wants to hear these stories or except that this happens.  IT DOES!