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Topic : 07/17 Living on a Prayer

Number of Replies: 986
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Created on : Friday, February 08, 2008, 12:25:06 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 02/15/08) What happens when a parent’s agenda becomes so extreme that his or her children are forced to live a harsh, stoic existence? Dan and Janna are a college-educated couple married for 15 years with seven children, ages ranging from 2 weeks to 14. They have no income, no heat, no running water and are about to lose their house. Dan and Janna believe that their primitive lifestyle is God’s will, and that they are being led by the Lord. Janna’s mom, Carol, and stepdad, Rich, are worried about the health of their grandchildren. Are they eating enough? Are they warm enough? They say because the children are home schooled, they live in a cult-like home environment, and are not exposed to the outside world. Carol and Rich are willing to bail this family out one last time, but why are Dan and Janna refusing the help? After eight failed businesses, why won’t Dan get a job to support his family? Where will they go when they are forced out of their home? Talk about the show here.

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February 12, 2008, 12:54 pm CST

02/15 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: blondiecc

I don't think this has much of anything to do with home-schooling at all.  What concerns me is the crazy extreme behavior all in the name of "God".  People that are doing this, and there's the taboo of being protected by the division of church and state.  Religious nuts abound, and that's no excuse for neglect for children to grow up in this condition.  These adults can believe anything they want and these children have the right to be taken care of completely and properly with food, clothing, and an education that prepares them to be productive independent people.  I know a family going through the same kind of circumstances and I don't understand how they get away with freak extremes and neglect imposed on their innocent children.  I will be fascinated to see this show!
These extreme lifestyles go against everything the Bible teaches. The Bible says a great deal in favor of men working and providing for their families. In one verse, a man who will not provide for his family is called worse than an infidel. Even the Apostles preaching the Gospel didn't have everything handed to them. They supported themselves though manual labor. Paul made tents. No easy task in those days.
 
February 12, 2008, 2:24 pm CST

By God's grace

I love the Lord and give Him the credit for all that I have. But I also am a woman.....with a heart disease...who works everyday doing construction in order to support my family. Now only by the grace of God am I able to work a physically demanding job like the one I have. My mom had the same disease and spent her whole life (44 years) "disabled". We spent our childhood on welfare and food stamps. Granted it made me who I am today, but at the same time people need to learn to count their blessings and discern one from the other. Maybe this family should look for other such blessings like the fact that they are physically ABLE to work....I would urge them NOT to give their children a misconception of who God truly is.
 
February 12, 2008, 7:29 pm CST

justification?

Is living that way justification for being lazy?  Isn't sloth supposed to be one of the seven deadly sins?  The point where people can't function is where this becomes more of a case of the "elevator not going to the top" and less of a religious belief.  I think after 8 failed businesses, anyone could be depressed or "give up" on the future-but don't hide behind God and blame Him for your crummy life (God helps those who help themselves).

 

What do you say to someone that far gone?  How do you smack them upside the head enough to make them perceive reality?  They just need to regain the control over their lives that they lost when their businesses went under.  I don't think God would want them to BE failures just because they failed. 

 
February 13, 2008, 5:44 pm CST

GOD WANTS US TO HAVE ABUNDANT LIFE

Hello, I am not trying to judge anyone, but I know that Jesus came so that we might have life more abundantly. Anyway A man is supposed to provide for his family according to the word. And another thing, again I am not trying to judge anyone that is God's job, and we are to the love the Lord with our whole heart, soul and mind. I would consider myself to be a "Jesus freak"  BUT we can get so finatical about anything that we leave a foothold open to the enemy. The bible talks about balance. Another thing to consider is fruit of the spirit. 1 of them is kindness. I don't think these parents are being very kind to their children by not providing utilites, running water etc. It is of the utmost importance to learn spirtual discernment as well.  is God really telling them these things or perhaps could it be Ol' Satan.  I  am praying for this family. I know Dr. Phil and Robin love God ( I can just tell) and maybe God will use them to speak some sense in to them and have them take an accurate spiritual pulse. Looking forward to seeing this show- Jenny
 
February 14, 2008, 2:40 pm CST

THIS is God’s Will?

Okay, I’ve seen the previews for the episode and read the message boards, and this definitely sounds like a must-see.  I want to know Dan and Janna’s entire reasoning (bet you it’ll be a bunch of BS anyway) behind this lifestyle.

 

I definitely agree with the messages that state that Child Protective Services should be involved.  They should’ve intervened yesterday.  Seriously, I do not understand how God would allow them to have seven children that they cannot take care of (all that “multiply and be fruitful” garbage in the Old Testament that they obviously fell for) and then live in squalor with no electricity, little food, no money, no plan for this family, and even not enough room in the house (which they will lose) for the children to play in, never mind do their homeschooling.  I have a question for them: how are you going to home-school your children without a home?

 

They say that this primitive lifestyle is God’s will, God’s plan for them, that they are being led by God, and that God will provide them with everything.  I have news – God is too busy admitting people into Heaven, controlling the weather, and making improvements of His Kingdom to cater to only one holy-rolling family.  God may have a plan for everyone, but His long-term plan was for people of the Earth to make some things of themselves by gaining employment, establishing careers, and providing for their families.  He is not going to have a million dollars rain down from the sky for Dan and Janna to catch in their hands, buckets and hats.  He is not going to have a huge mansion drop in the middle of a big field for them to live in.  I may not be a Bible expert, but didn’t God assign His followers and Disciples to do laborious tasks in order to earn their keep?  Even the Amish had to work by churning butter, washing clothes, educating children and building barns.  An old saying comes into play here: “If you don’t work, you don’t eat.”

 

I may not be employed myself as I am posting this, but the reason why is that I have been living with cerebral palsy since birth, and have mentioned this in a personal information section on my résumé.  Not all work establishments are going to hire me because of my disability – let’s be realistic – and they certainly won’t hire me if they think I will need constant supervision and/or assistance on assigned tasks once I tell them my limitations.  Which is why I am getting assistance to seek employment at the learning centre in my hometown, and I have been a bit busy putting together a “business communication” package that will surely wow employers wherever I go.  As well, due to my limitations, I may never be able to provide for a family as society would expect of me, and I have come to accept that.  My point is, I would never use God as an excuse to not work saying, “He will provide me with a good life and lots of money, and a wife and children worthy of my love and devotion.”  That is crap, and I would actually be sent to hell for that.  Dan and Janna need to get it through their heads, pound out a few copies of their résumés, and look for actual jobs.  (That they are looking to God to provide for them is actually a waste of their college educations, and I don’t know why few people, if anyone, brought this up.)

 

Those poor kids need to be in the custody of Janna’s mom and stepdad, or several good foster homes, until Dan and Janna get their acts together, get themselves some employment (you might actually need two parents working to provide for this kind of family) get those children into an actual school, (not putting down homeschooling parents, but this arrangement obviously isn’t working out for them, and I have read statements from other parents of this category describing their embarrassment) and a complete makeover and their lifestyles and attitudes.  Their children – and God – will thank them in the long run.  Many previous messages on this board have said it best – God will only help those who will help themselves.

 

I may be Christian, but I do not practice the religion, and this is why.  And we wonder why religion as a whole continues to be vilified in the media.

 
February 14, 2008, 4:09 pm CST

Xenos Christian Fellowship is a cult

My sister has been going to this church for over 20 years.  She gets her 4 kids to go around and ask people if they have Jesus in their heart.  She also has tried to proselytize to minors without their parents consent.  There have been some parents who have confronted her and do not let their kids around her family.  My sister has demonized our whole family and does not make any decision without Xenos's input.  I know a lot of people who have left and had nervous breakdowns.  Their hold on people is just like brainwashing.  They are told by the church who to make friends with and how to manipulate people with love bombing, etc. 
 
February 14, 2008, 7:07 pm CST

02/15 Living on a Prayer

Definitly a must see.

I will say right now, I'm NOT a beliver, however I am NOT trying to put down anyone who is, to me a person's spirituality and belifs system is a personal thing.

I have seen though (not sure if this is what's going on here ) that many people who have suffered delve into religion, and if that helps, then hey better then delving into drugs or alcohol, but a small per centage go so far in that they are no longer recognizable I hate to say this, because it seems to be the all encompassing word for everything, but it is almost like and addiction or obsession with something that may or may not exist (forgive me, clumsy attempt at being diplomatic ).  Could something have "Snapped " after eight failed business attempts, and he simply gave up on himself, using religion as a crutch ?  I've personally seen this happen to people.

Like I said this one is a must see, however I will say there is NOTHING wrong with homeschooling if you have the time and patience, its when you get to the point that you isolate your children from the rest of the world, that it becomes a problem. Most who Homeschool take their children outside the home to social activities.

As for having so many children, I've heard the whole "Gifts from God" thing, or my personal favorite "we will have as many as God allows us ", but if you can't or will NOT look after them, get separate bedrooms for a couple of years, and if you get pregnant again after a year with (here's the catch ) NO CONTACT, then I will belive it was "God's Will ".

 
February 14, 2008, 7:15 pm CST

02/15 Living on a Prayer

God wants us to have abundant life here on earth and make the most of what we can learn here.  That is by working here with jobs and taking care of our families and making sure they come first. maiing surew they have a roof over their heads.God loves us sure but if he had 8 failed busineses then he sure didn't work hard enough to make sure that his family was protected. Only satan will harm , not God.    The parents must be listening to satan if they don't care about their children.   How will the learn and grow and make mistakes and learn from those mistakes.??  Thats how we all learn from our mistakes that we make here.   God wants us to do our very best that we can here.  It seems that the parents isn't ,so the children are suffering.
 
February 14, 2008, 9:33 pm CST

Give me a break!!

I am so sick & tired of hearing that a families are making their familes suffer, because of "God's will"!!  God does NOT want us to suffer!!  This is Satan's work.  Yes, we should all put God at the head of our families, with faith, God will provide.  That dosen't mean that parent's can sit around, not work and expect God to provide!  The Lord helps those who helps themselves!  We are "his" children.  We must work to support our families spiritually, financially & with morals & ethics.  This guy is soooooo mistaken.  Children services should remove these children immediately!  Given to families who truly love them, (there's allot of them to comply with this!)  These children are being negelected!  I don't think this guy has ever been to a real church in his life.
 
February 15, 2008, 6:27 am CST

02/15 Living on a Prayer

 "Most recently, I’ve come across a red light photo blocker. You can spray it onto your license plate, and if you accidentally went through a red light, it would overexpose the film, and they can’t send you a ticket. I thought I was led by the Lord to do this business, but so far I’ve only sold two cans.”

Wait--so he was led by God to sell a product that helps people break the law and endanger others' lives by running red lights?  Somebody please explain the Christianity in that one to me, because I don't get it.

I guess, though, if they were logical, they wouldn't be on the Dr. Phil show in the first place . . .
 
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