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Topic : 07/17 Living on a Prayer

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Created on : Friday, February 08, 2008, 12:25:06 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 02/15/08) What happens when a parent’s agenda becomes so extreme that his or her children are forced to live a harsh, stoic existence? Dan and Janna are a college-educated couple married for 15 years with seven children, ages ranging from 2 weeks to 14. They have no income, no heat, no running water and are about to lose their house. Dan and Janna believe that their primitive lifestyle is God’s will, and that they are being led by the Lord. Janna’s mom, Carol, and stepdad, Rich, are worried about the health of their grandchildren. Are they eating enough? Are they warm enough? They say because the children are home schooled, they live in a cult-like home environment, and are not exposed to the outside world. Carol and Rich are willing to bail this family out one last time, but why are Dan and Janna refusing the help? After eight failed businesses, why won’t Dan get a job to support his family? Where will they go when they are forced out of their home? Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.


 
jewelsf
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July 21, 2008, 1:11 am PDT

Fiestyd, a great response!!!!!!!!

Quote From: feistyd

Seriously!! You really think this is really  a possible explanation?

 

While each person with this syndrome do exhibit some similar traits the diagnosis of this syndrome is an extensive process and is very multifaceted, as I am sure you know.  You already have him diagnosed and labeled as disabled. This man very clearly stated that he had not interest in holding down a job... that means WON'T work (at least for anyone but himself).

 

It amazes me how many times when people do irresponsible and/or stupid things the need to 'diagnose' a syndrome/condition is overwhelming.

 

How about sometimes it just is what it is??!! 

   It got to me also that this person has already diagnosed him without having ever met that man! I happen to know of a lot of people just like him, mostly men of course, who may not use the Bible as their excuse, but they sure have plenty of other excuses on hand as to why they can never hold down a job. I know one man in particular who has made his wife support him and their family, (yes, I think she should should leave him!) while he has sat on his big butt throughout their entire marriage and has only worked for only a few months here and there at a time. I have always compared him to the dorky cousin in the movie "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation) because they both are holding out for a management position. Most people have to work their way up to a management position, not just walk in without experience and expect one to be handed over "just because they feel they deserve it"!

   And not everybody has the great luck in life of getting to own their own business. That is not even reasonable, someone has to work for them too! Whatever you choose to do as an adult is your business, but when you bring children into this world, you had better be responsible for them if it means that you have to take a job at 7-11. Honest pay for honest work. I have more respect for people who work at mini marts and fast food places than I do for this man. Actually, I have NO respect for this man at all! But I have great respect for someone who works at any honest business, no matter what it is.

   I love your remark where you state "It amazes me how many times when people do irresponsible and/or stupid things the need to diagnose a syndrome/condition is overwhelming."

   You hit the nail on the head with that one! If you want to, you could take any individual and find a syndrome/condition to diagnose them with to suit that persons needs. And personally, I think that Dr. Phil would have picked up on it if this man did have a mental problem. There is a great deal of interviews and preparation that goes on before he has a guest on the show. It's not as if he walks out onto that stage blind to what he is going to deal with. This man is just plain lazy, irresponsible, and only wants to do things his way. It's his way or no way! And I have just as much blame for the wife too, she should know better than to allow this not only too continue, but to have even more children that they cannot take care of. Why isn't she holding down a job while he stays home with the kids? Does she have a syndrome/condition too? I would LOVE to hear a response to that question! Do they both have the same condition?

   As Fiestyd said, "sometimes it just is what it is"!
 
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July 22, 2008, 8:25 pm PDT

07/17 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: galestanton

   If you will read your Bible without prejudice or predetermined mindset you will find that Dan is a very admirable Christian who is a little off base and aren't we all imperfect. At least he tries harder than we do. You seem to rely on human understanding, as do most of us lukewarm Christians. Dan is passionate. Dan is hard-core and God says in Revelations, chapter 3 that he will smite lukewarm christians. He would that we were cold or hot. Lukewarm christianity is not good enough to get us to heaven, or so God says- if you choose to believe God. Dan has read this scripture and knows his passion is appreciated by the Lord. 
If Dan showed any passion on this particular show, they must have edited it out.
 
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July 23, 2008, 8:58 am PDT

07/17 Living on a Prayer

I was just reviewing some of the old boards, and thought I'd give my general thoughts on this episode.

 

First of all, I would like to say that I do not believe that it is wrong, to choose to live a very simple lifestyle. Some would even say that this is the right way to raise your children - by teaching them to appreciate nature, hard work, and the simple things in life. Not to mention, people lived just fine without central heating or indoor plumbing for centuries.

 

Now, if those kids don't have shoes on their feet while their dad does have shoes, that would be a different story. That's blatantly telling your children that you care about your own comfort more than you care about theirs.

 

What I think is upsetting to people about this episode, is a) the rather bizarre view of the scripture that this guy is taking, b) the fact that he's probably sharing this bizarre view with his children, and c) he's not truly living the "simple life" values, because he's mooching off of his in-laws and investing in get-rich-quick schemes, some of which are illegal.

 

I do think that it is wrong to teach your children that it is ok to not "till the land," so to speak, and expect God to provide anyway. Because that would be neglecting your duty to your children to prepare them for the adult world.

 

I do think that it is wrong to mooch off of your in-laws. Especially if you're going to squander what they give you. If you don't want what they give you, be honest about it and return it to them, or find another use for it - don't sell it for pennies on the dollar. That's just being contemptuous of their generosity.

 

But I don't think it's wrong to choose to live a very simple lifestyle.

 

Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the matter.
 
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July 23, 2008, 9:22 am PDT

07/17 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: katerine

I was just reviewing some of the old boards, and thought I'd give my general thoughts on this episode.

 

First of all, I would like to say that I do not believe that it is wrong, to choose to live a very simple lifestyle. Some would even say that this is the right way to raise your children - by teaching them to appreciate nature, hard work, and the simple things in life. Not to mention, people lived just fine without central heating or indoor plumbing for centuries.

 

Now, if those kids don't have shoes on their feet while their dad does have shoes, that would be a different story. That's blatantly telling your children that you care about your own comfort more than you care about theirs.

 

What I think is upsetting to people about this episode, is a) the rather bizarre view of the scripture that this guy is taking, b) the fact that he's probably sharing this bizarre view with his children, and c) he's not truly living the "simple life" values, because he's mooching off of his in-laws and investing in get-rich-quick schemes, some of which are illegal.

 

I do think that it is wrong to teach your children that it is ok to not "till the land," so to speak, and expect God to provide anyway. Because that would be neglecting your duty to your children to prepare them for the adult world.

 

I do think that it is wrong to mooch off of your in-laws. Especially if you're going to squander what they give you. If you don't want what they give you, be honest about it and return it to them, or find another use for it - don't sell it for pennies on the dollar. That's just being contemptuous of their generosity.

 

But I don't think it's wrong to choose to live a very simple lifestyle.

 

Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the matter.

Living the "simple life" is fine.  However, this situation has gone FAR beyond that.  This family is ready to be "homeless". 

 

People who live the simple life do so successfully, a roof is provided over the heads of their children and their basic needs are met.  Generally, (but not always) these are "content" people who would rather go back to days of yore and live a rustic lifestyle....and I agree with you....."mooching" OFF OF OTHERS isn't how they go about the business of maintaining a "simple life".

 

It's an oxymoron for these parents to say they are "choosing" to live simply.....and then MOOCH.  This is the whole basis of this story.  This story isn't about a family that is successfully living without common day luxuries and making it just fine.  This about a family that is heading for DISASTER. 

 

 This entire story is about a family that is  NOT  "choosing" to live simply.....it is about a man who is "choosing" to gain "success" and live just like everyone else but not "choosing" to go into the work arena but continued attempts and failures of starting his own business or self employment and when these ridiculous endeavors don't succeed....the ELECTRICITY gets TURNED OFF.  They are only living without electricity because they DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY THE LIGHT BILL... not because they "like" it that way.  Naturally "need" is the mother of invention but believe me....if somebody would "pay" the light bill they would USE the electricity.

 

I would imagine if a family came on there that was living nicely, was content and CHOSE TO LIVE in a log cabin without electricity and running water, living off the land and deeply religious, and it was just a matter of their extended "family" not approving of it....... (AND  was NOT MOOCHING off of relatives and anybody else that will give a "hand out")....Dr. Phil's advice would be very different. 

 

The whole point of the show is that what this guy is doing....is FAILING. 

 

It wasn't a show about a couple that CHOSE to live simply.

 

 

 
 
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ramair
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July 23, 2008, 2:08 pm PDT

07/17 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: galestanton

   If you will read your Bible without prejudice or predetermined mindset you will find that Dan is a very admirable Christian who is a little off base and aren't we all imperfect. At least he tries harder than we do. You seem to rely on human understanding, as do most of us lukewarm Christians. Dan is passionate. Dan is hard-core and God says in Revelations, chapter 3 that he will smite lukewarm christians. He would that we were cold or hot. Lukewarm christianity is not good enough to get us to heaven, or so God says- if you choose to believe God. Dan has read this scripture and knows his passion is appreciated by the Lord. 
Every time I read my Bible, I come across a lot of scriptures Dan blows off because they don't fit his agenda.
 
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July 23, 2008, 2:10 pm PDT

07/17 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: katerine

I was just reviewing some of the old boards, and thought I'd give my general thoughts on this episode.

 

First of all, I would like to say that I do not believe that it is wrong, to choose to live a very simple lifestyle. Some would even say that this is the right way to raise your children - by teaching them to appreciate nature, hard work, and the simple things in life. Not to mention, people lived just fine without central heating or indoor plumbing for centuries.

 

Now, if those kids don't have shoes on their feet while their dad does have shoes, that would be a different story. That's blatantly telling your children that you care about your own comfort more than you care about theirs.

 

What I think is upsetting to people about this episode, is a) the rather bizarre view of the scripture that this guy is taking, b) the fact that he's probably sharing this bizarre view with his children, and c) he's not truly living the "simple life" values, because he's mooching off of his in-laws and investing in get-rich-quick schemes, some of which are illegal.

 

I do think that it is wrong to teach your children that it is ok to not "till the land," so to speak, and expect God to provide anyway. Because that would be neglecting your duty to your children to prepare them for the adult world.

 

I do think that it is wrong to mooch off of your in-laws. Especially if you're going to squander what they give you. If you don't want what they give you, be honest about it and return it to them, or find another use for it - don't sell it for pennies on the dollar. That's just being contemptuous of their generosity.

 

But I don't think it's wrong to choose to live a very simple lifestyle.

 

Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the matter.

Your thoughts are mine, too!
 
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July 23, 2008, 2:36 pm PDT

07/17 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: feistyd

I think the Lord would appreciate a passion for taking care of his family!

 

Do you also pick and choose what parts of the Bible 'fit' your beliefs?? I am sure many have mentioned

the parts of the Bible that say these parents are responsible for the well-being of their family.

 

Another who tells me that reading my Bible will bring about any kind of admiration for Dan must be missing quite of few pages from theirs.. Every time I read any Bible, I come across lots of scriptures Dan blows off because they don't "fit" his personal agenda. Yepper, those who think Dan is such a "fine" Christian, must be "pickers" and "choosers" themselves.
 
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July 23, 2008, 3:28 pm PDT

I agree with most of this..........

Quote From: katerine

I was just reviewing some of the old boards, and thought I'd give my general thoughts on this episode.

 

First of all, I would like to say that I do not believe that it is wrong, to choose to live a very simple lifestyle. Some would even say that this is the right way to raise your children - by teaching them to appreciate nature, hard work, and the simple things in life. Not to mention, people lived just fine without central heating or indoor plumbing for centuries.

 

Now, if those kids don't have shoes on their feet while their dad does have shoes, that would be a different story. That's blatantly telling your children that you care about your own comfort more than you care about theirs.

 

What I think is upsetting to people about this episode, is a) the rather bizarre view of the scripture that this guy is taking, b) the fact that he's probably sharing this bizarre view with his children, and c) he's not truly living the "simple life" values, because he's mooching off of his in-laws and investing in get-rich-quick schemes, some of which are illegal.

 

I do think that it is wrong to teach your children that it is ok to not "till the land," so to speak, and expect God to provide anyway. Because that would be neglecting your duty to your children to prepare them for the adult world.

 

I do think that it is wrong to mooch off of your in-laws. Especially if you're going to squander what they give you. If you don't want what they give you, be honest about it and return it to them, or find another use for it - don't sell it for pennies on the dollar. That's just being contemptuous of their generosity.

 

But I don't think it's wrong to choose to live a very simple lifestyle.

 

Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the matter.

The only thing that we have different views on are the that fact of what is considered the simple life. The Amish live a very simple life but they provide so very much more for their families than this father does. The Amish live very admirable lives with bountiful food, and difficult yet comfortable living conditions at the same time. I would rather be Amish any day instead of being forced to live with this guy!
 
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July 23, 2008, 3:36 pm PDT

Living on a prayer

Quote From: feistyd

Seriously!! You really think this is really  a possible explanation?

 

While each person with this syndrome do exhibit some similar traits the diagnosis of this syndrome is an extensive process and is very multifaceted, as I am sure you know.  You already have him diagnosed and labeled as disabled. This man very clearly stated that he had not interest in holding down a job... that means WON'T work (at least for anyone but himself).

 

It amazes me how many times when people do irresponsible and/or stupid things the need to 'diagnose' a syndrome/condition is overwhelming.

 

How about sometimes it just is what it is??!! 

My hit was that this man probably  has Aspergers. He manifested the characteristics. He has had many jobs all relating to his special interest at the moment. I am sure some people make a living selling tropical fish, golfing, or growing trees but it requires a lot of skill, planning, and training to do so. He is very willing to work and does so frequently just very poorly. I saw this man as someone pretty clueless as to what is required to get and maintain a job. I also saw him as pretty clueless as to how to maintain marital and parental relationships and expectations. Most people with untreated AS attempt self-employment because they lack the skills to work for others. Many people with AS have college degrees, sometimes up to PhD's but often with No successful employment due to poor communication, poor social relating, rigid thinking, and poor cause and effect.

My son who has autism, mental retardation, bipolar disorder and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome has had a very difficult time with employment. (He's adopted for all of you who are getting ready to cast stones at me.) He quit one job because one supervisor told him he could plug in the vacuum cleaner in one spot and another told him he had to plug it in another spot which kept coming unplugged. His psychiatrist of 10 years said, Of course he would not be able to deal with that kind of discrepancy of expectations because he has autism! Check with anyone who has experience with adults who have Aspergers and I am sure you will find that my opinion is not off base. I did not diagnose him but strongly suggested that he be evaluated for Aspergers and he and his family be given appropriate resources to understand and support each other.
 
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July 23, 2008, 3:53 pm PDT

Living on a Prayer

Quote From: marymertz1

I've had quite a bit of experience dealing with people with autism and asperger's syndrome.  However, I have dealt with several people with bi-polar disorders.  In my humble opinion, Dan seemed to have manic tendencies and of course they never work out as planned.  He's got some mental problems, I'm willing to bet.  Can you believe that he's angry with grandma for butting in their business??!  Once they come to grandma for money, it's her business now! 

I am a church going Christian and I think Dan's hiding behind that "God's will stuff" as an excuse for his failures.  I've heard that Bible passages are commonly used by mentally ill people because how can anyone dare question them if they say "God" told me to do that?! 

If Dan was truly doing "God's Will" then his businesses, etc. would PROSPER.  The God I know wouldn't be whispering in that man's ear ways to bilk the government with special license plates in order to pay for  his ever growing family that he can't support.   The woman is just as guilty, in my opinion. He isn't having all those kids by himself that they are neglecting. 

God promises he'll feed the birds but he doesn't throw the worms up in the nest!

Dr. Phil did a great job with trying to talk to that couple and Dan had no answers.  You can't argue with someone mentally ill and change their minds.  That couple has got to want to change and Dr. Phil recognizes that.
Dan's hopping from job to job may have been impulsive and some of his thinking may be grandiose. I didn't see other signs of Bipolar in our short exposure to this man. That doesn't mean he doesn't have many disorders. Donna Williams, a world re known person with Asperger's, says that 30% of people with AS have bipolar disorders so this man may be trying to process the world through many distortions. I agree that he was truly clueless as to what Dr. Phil and others were trying to share with him. I would have like to seen an offer to have him assessed by a psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist to see what indeed is going on and then he/his family can decide how they want to proceed given the evaluation outcome. You may not be able to fix what you don't acknowledge, but you can't acknowledge what hasn't been diagnosed.
 
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