Message Boards

Topic : 07/17 Living on a Prayer

Number of Replies: 987
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Friday, February 08, 2008, 12:25:06 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 02/15/08) What happens when a parent’s agenda becomes so extreme that his or her children are forced to live a harsh, stoic existence? Dan and Janna are a college-educated couple married for 15 years with seven children, ages ranging from 2 weeks to 14. They have no income, no heat, no running water and are about to lose their house. Dan and Janna believe that their primitive lifestyle is God’s will, and that they are being led by the Lord. Janna’s mom, Carol, and stepdad, Rich, are worried about the health of their grandchildren. Are they eating enough? Are they warm enough? They say because the children are home schooled, they live in a cult-like home environment, and are not exposed to the outside world. Carol and Rich are willing to bail this family out one last time, but why are Dan and Janna refusing the help? After eight failed businesses, why won’t Dan get a job to support his family? Where will they go when they are forced out of their home? Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
surprised
February 17, 2008, 1:10 pm PST

Dan the Man

WOW! Oh my God. This guy has an answer for everything. God will provide. Isn't there a saying that God helps those who help themselves? I heard this story. There was an extremey faithful woman in New Orleans who prayed to god in her home to save her as the water rose. Peope were running everywhere but she was not afraid because she put her trust in God. As the water rose, a neighbor pushed a boat by her front door and said come on out you need to go. She said don't worry about me, I am in good hands. Soon she had to go to the second floor and continued to pray. The neighbor came by again with several people in the boat and called for her to come out. She said don't worry about me, I will be fine, and she continued to pray. She had to move to the roof but coninued to pray. Later the neighbor came by again and said come now we have room for one more. She said God will provide for me I will be just fine. She later found herself in heaven. She was confused when she asked God why he had not saved her. God said, I sent a boat for you three times! Dan is nuts! And extremely lazy and selfish. Other then that, I like him.
 
User Mood
Peaceful

Message Emote
blank
February 17, 2008, 1:28 pm PST

IT was implisit

Quote From: toniecw

The rain water was being used to flush the comodes...food can be easily gotten from churches all over the country.

 

These two adults are college educated people...think of it as a camping experience using a large house...

 

May You Be Blessed

Love, Light and Peace

Tonie

 

The father, in responding to the fact that they have no running water, said he collects rain water and therefor does not need running water.
To me, that implied that they use the rain water for everything.
I imagine he thinks its ok to just boil it...
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
February 17, 2008, 1:39 pm PST

02/15 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: christab

I hope someone steps in on behalf of the children and take them out of that "home" and then charge those parents with neglect and abuse.   Those parents might end up killing those children because their "God" told them they need to be saved.

 

Why are those people allowed to live like that...WITH children?

I could not agree with you more.  This man's testosterone level is higher than his IQ and his wife seems enthralled.  I do not blaim the parents, although I think they should have called CPS instead of Dr Phil.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
February 17, 2008, 1:45 pm PST

02/15 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: april_75

   I agree that human services/child protective services should investigate the conditions in the home.  How safe if that collected water, just how cold is it getting in the house.  But most importantly, are the children being abused, or are they truly loved. 

  I'd hate to see children taken away from loving parents.  I'd like to see some form of loan for them to make necessary changes.  However, Dan needs a job to be sure he can repay the loan and the rest of his bills.  Surely, he can find something that provides for his family even if it's not his preferred type of job..

The point is that Dan is an idiot.  Any loan would be squandered as the money from her parents was in the past.  CPS is the only way to protect these kids.  This man is still living twenty years ago when he made a business work.  The only one!  He continually revisited 1988 during the interview and ignored any questions about getting employment.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
February 17, 2008, 1:50 pm PST

nefarious product

  if someone is going thru red lights...whether accidentaly or not is totally crazy and to sell these crazies a product that will help them get away with it is even crazier.
 
User Mood
Good

Message Emote
blank
February 17, 2008, 2:08 pm PST

02/15 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: jstme52

VERY GOOD TRUE POST!

BUT will people listen .. to the word of GOD?
Of course not., its much easier, more fun(?) to be judgmental throw stones, and worse.

PEOPLE forget that they too can be in such a situation at ANY unexpected moment, for all their best efforts-perhaps not exactly like this situation, but the BIBLE also states that we are to have COMPASSION for others who perhaps are not as fortunate, or SMART as us. GOD is no respector of anyone, and HE looks at the heart.

From what I've seen and heard the hearts of most of the people posting are certainly NOT GOD-oriented, and as such, GOD is not amused., people should beware, and FEAR the LORD for treating one of His own in such a disrespectful, looking-down-ones-nose attitude. REALLY.

No one thought to even applaud the fact that at least he is THERE for his children!! In a time when dads are looked down upon, partly as being absent from his kids lives, this society  (talk about MISGUIDED) only applauds those whom bring in 6 figure incomes, are gone 90% of the time due to workaholic status, while a man seeking after GOD is thumbed down!!

RIDICULOUS! The only thing that Dan might be guilty of is loving his children so much that he would like to be self-employed, make his own hours, to be available for his family., and he like so many others, has made mistakes-so what? At least he doesn't give up, he keeps trying and I'm sure that soon there will be a break-through, perhaps then the snippy MIL will go away quietly. I am reminded of a favorite adage:

IF you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem

If you are not part of the problem then you are part of the solution!

Listen up everyone-either help or stay out of it!

Excuse me, but we are invited by DrP to come here and give our opinions. Let me say something else, opinions are like butts, we all have one and they all stink.But we are invited to come here and say what we think about the shows. It doesn't matter how much we debate this situation, nothing is going to change unless Dan changes his attitude about going to work somewhere. It doesn't matter how much we all talk about God, those kids are going to get hungry and cold. Dan is thier father, he is charged with seeing to thier needs. No matter how much he talks about 1988, he and they are living in the present. His wife is growing weary of this situation herself. No matter how much Dan himself talks about how God is leading him, those kids are going to get hungry every day as long as they live. They are being thrown out of thier house for God's sake. Do you not think this should be a wake up call for Dan and Janna? It seems like thier situation is going downhill fast. They are heading for disaster with thier eyes wide open.There is no Biblical excuse for this behavior. Doing something in the name of God does not make it right.You know, my father was a mean alchoholic, but we never were cold or hungry. He went to work everyday. Granted, he drank every weekend, every holiday, every vacation. But he made sure we were warm and fed. I think I have finally found someone who makes my father look good.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
February 17, 2008, 2:25 pm PST

THEIR reason for home-schooling

I grew up in a home very similar to this.  My mother seriously considered home-schooling us.  Why?  ... Because it would cost less. When you send kids to school, you have to pay for things like semi-decent cloths for them to wear.  You have to buy food to put in lunches, or get free/reduced lunches and there-by revealing the true situation at home. If you home school, you don't have to hear your children ask for money for field trips, book orders or P.E. uniforms.

 

When your children don't know what they're missing, they don't expect anything.  And if you keep their minds in a virtual cradle-board, when they're grown, they will see the world just as you do.

 

As for home-schooling materials... There are many out there, but they cost money.  It's easier to go to the local teacher supply store, purchase grade leveled workbooks and call it "schooling."

 

Parents who are really dedicated to home schooling, who do it for the right reasons and with the right materials, don't look at it as an easier, cheaper way to raise kids.

 

cb  

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
February 17, 2008, 2:31 pm PST

02/15 Living on a Prayer

Quote From: smom62

..."This dog don't hunt".

 

I think the point that made Phil so angry (he wasn't alone) and that the family wasn't getting is that the details just don't matter.  It doesn't matter if the guy had a great business that failed or if he tried 'hard'  The point is, he's got seven kids, he's got to do whatever it takes to make things work for his family.

 

It's not about God, it's not about trying hard, or homeschooling, or having dreams, or anything else.  It's the brass tacks of the situation, which is 'Dude, you've got a family of NINE people to support, get off of your butt and start flipping pancakes because at least that pancake paycheck will feed you and your's or your kids are going to be homeless".  Because that is what is coming next, here.

 

It doesn't matter if he has dreams, or doesn't like it.  It doesn't matter if he hates going to work every minute of his life.  How many people are out here that hate their jobs?  So you flip pancakes and do your dream job work ON THE SIDE. 

 

To his wife? Let me tell you what I've learned about standing by your man while dealing with financial hard times and job loss.  It is NOT helpful to stand by your man if he's going down the wrong path.  Saving his feelings and avoiding reality means that you help him STAY there, not move forward.  The woman needs to grow a pair herself and look him straight in the eye and say "FLIP PANCAKES, NOW!"  WAKE UP, WE COULD LOSE EVERYTHING, INCLUDING OUR KIDS". She isn't at  his side just to make him babies and dinner. She's there to help him be successful and sometimes that means kicking him in the pants.  Yep, sometimes you have to look a man straight in the eye and tell him the truth.  And mean it. And you don't keep making babies if you are struggling to feed the ones that you have now.

 

A man's ego is a powerful thing.  It can move mountains or it can destroy them.  This is all about the guy's ego.  He doesn't want to be a worker bee, he wants to be the boss.  Well, the boss' position is earned, not granted like a wish from the tooth fairy.  That is so far removed from where he is, I can't even see that happening. 

 

Traditional lifestyles (whether or not they include religion) can work, very well.  However, this guy doesn't seem to understand the first thing about it. You cannot just be the 'head of the household' in name only.  It's not just a theory, there is PRACTICE behind it.  You make the decisions and the family rises or falls from them. And if you make mistakes, you learn from them, not keep repeating them. You have to be willing to do whatever it takes to stay afloat, even if you hate it.  Because once you've had babies, it's not about you and your dreams, it's about them. 

 

And a wife is not just a babymaker/baby caretaker/man caretaker.  Being that man's partner means that you are there to support what works and stand in the fire against what does not work, for exactly the same reasons.  You do not let your family fall apart and risk their health, safety, emotional well being and even the potential of being together because your guy has a 'good idea'.

 

It's a juvenile romantic notion to think that manna is going to fall from heaven and that El Padrone in the sky is going to provide your next meal.  Sorry, but although my religion is dusty, there is a whole lotta free will involved even if you're a believer, and if you fob all of your stuff off onto God, you are refusing to take responsibliity for yourself. You do not throw your family under a bus while you're on your knees.  Work is prayer, too.

 

The guy needs to cut the crap and go to work.  He might try multiplying that resume count by 100, he'd probably have better results. And if he doesn't do it, she needs to do it.  Someone has to be the grown up in this situation and stop acting like someone that needs to be taken care of.  That was over the moment the first baby showed up.

 

It is not normal to sit there serenely when they can see the sword of Damocles hanging over their family's head.  What person in their right mind wouldn't be sweating bullets over the idea of a family of nine facing foreclosure and eviction?  My only answer is that he's listening to his ego and thinking that is the voice of God.  Well, there are seven deadly sins, not just one.  Sloth was mentioned, but I think what is driving this one is 'pride'.  And pride goeth before the fall, they say.  I would say that they're going to have to fall to get the point.    It's ridiculous to think that he's so egotistical that it would take him sitting in a homeless shelter  with seven kids to realize what he did....

 

And considering the depth of his ego, I don't even know if that will do it.  :(

Well stated.  Kudos!
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
February 17, 2008, 3:04 pm PST

Not convinced that he is a

In order to be manipulative, deceitful, a liar, or even to have a strong level of confidence in your convictions, you must have at least a modicum of intelligience.

 

This man has none.  Threfore, in my opinion, he cannot, by design, be capable of being any of those other things.

 

What I see in Dan is a vapid, mentally challenged individual.  I do not, in any way shape or form, mean this in a derogatory way, any more than I would hold a retarded person culpable for their actions.

 

But that is exactly my point here.

 

Dan is not intelligient enough to be manipulative.

 

He lacks even the smallest level of cleverness required to manipulate others. 

 

He is, in short, simply not smart enough to be deceitful.

 

Further, I would even go out on more of a limb here and state that Dan is not even lazy.  He seems to work quite hard at whatever circuituous activity he invents in order to "hit it big".  Of course, none of these grand schemes ever work out, because he simply does not know any better.  No, this man is FAR from lazy.  In fact, he is trying as hard as he can do to the best with what he has - which is, obviously, a very short deck.

 

I actually feel sorrow (not anger) for Dan.  I believe Dan is too far gone to know right from wrong (his constant assertions that he believes he is "doing what he feels is the right thing" is testament to that).

 

The argument may be made that he is manipulative because he was able to "convince" or somehow "deceive" his wife into being his private child-rearing machine and to follow him down his certain path to misery, complete poverty and total ruin.  However, Janna herself is also a trouble person.  Just think about it for a moment - would ANY of you even for a moment believe ANYTHING that Dan says as being right, correct, in line with common norms, a "righteous path" etc.?  If you do, then you are as easily led astray as Janna is (and seems to be quite content to allow to continue).  The matter of the fact is, Janna is clearly also mentally incapacitated to a certain degree - how else could she be so effectively mislead, so easily, by someone who doesn't seem to have the mental capacity of a small child?  Said differently, would you hire this man?  Would you buy mangos, tropical fish or license plate "cover-up" paint from this person?  If you have even a shred of common sense between your ears I would have to hope the answer would be "NO".  With that said, how is it that Janna is able to somehow see with such clarity the clarity in Dan's Path of life" that seems lost on the rest of society with a working brain?  Answer:  Because she doesn't know any better either.  The combination of Dan and Janna could be called "Dumb and Dumber" and not be too far from the truth.

 

Dan and Janna are apparently well-intentioned people.  However, there have been throughout the ages legions of people who had good intentions in mind who committed atrocious acts.  Having your heart in the right place when your brain isn't is a dangerous combination.

 

The children should be taken away from them, they should be put into foster homes, and Dan and Janna should be persuaded to seek immediate mental help.  Nothing short of this will help these children from eventually becoming the victims of some as-yet unknown new "path" of Dan's twisted ideology.

 

 

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
February 17, 2008, 3:19 pm PST

02/15 Living on a Prayer

Dr Phil

I cannot believe you will let these children go back to the horrible environment they are living in. I hope you have notified the authorities, I feel so bad for the  children, as for the mother she is disgusting bringing children into the world that cannot be taken care of the proper way she should have her tubes tied and as for him he needs some serious help

 
First | Prev | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | Next | Last