Topic : 07/17 Living on a Prayer

I personally don't think this is a reflection of typical home schooling. I DO, however, think that it's wise that they DO home school these children. Children are likely the cruelest creatures on earth, and the children of this family would be ridiculed horribly by their classmates.

 

I cannot tell you how unimpressed I am with university degrees. This is not the first time I've encountered a couple without an intelligent brain cell between them holding a university degree. There is a story that is perfect for people with this "belief". It's a bit lengthy, but well worth a read:

 

In a small village right by the ocean lived a man named Joseph. One day their came an enormous tidal wave. The entire village was flooded. The village people were making every effort to leave their homes for safety. Joe climbed up onto the roof of his house and sat there praying to God. One of his neighbours came by in a boat and yelled out to Joseph "Joe, come with us! We'll take you to safety!" Joe replied "Thank you, but I'm fine. God will take care of me."  An hour went by and another boat approaches. "Joe, come with us to safety!" shouted the captain of the boat. Again Joe responded with Thank you, but my God will look out for me. I have faith."  Some time later as the village was sinking deeper and deeper into  the ocean, the coast guard was passing by Joe's house and noticed him on the roof. They shouted to him "Don't worry Joe, we'll help you! We're throwing you this life raft so you can get to safety!" Once more Joe shouted with confidence "I have faith that God will provide for me. HE will save me, but thank you!" Moments later a helicopter flew overhead. They threw down a rope and said "Joe! Grab the rope! We'll take you to safety!" Again, Joe maintained with complete conviction "I'm okay. God will protect me. My faith is strong!" Soon all the rescuers were gone and all the other villagers taken to safety. Joe is still on the roof of his house, the floods almost consuming him. Finally Joe shouts out "God, why have you forsaken me? I have been a loyal and faithful follower all my life. Why now, in my hour of need have you abandoned me?" God replied "Joe, I've sent you 2 boats, a life raft, and a helicopter. What do you want from me?"

 

The moral of the story is that God helps those who help themselves. I have an incredibly strong faith and belief in God; and yes there have been times where I've been presented with more than one opportunity. Often I've prayed that God would put a big neon sign over the one He wants me to take... and yes, I've made costly mistakes. But I don't make the same mistake twice, and I don't sit back and "wait" for God to provide. I get a job. As at least one of these two needs to do. She is just as responsible as as he is. I think they're both plain lazy and using "God's will" as an excuse to justify their irresponsible behaviour.

 

What really makes me angry though, is that they'll come on a program like this where they are often generously offered a financial way out (I wasn't able to see the end of the program) and/or the sympathetic public will send them tens of thousands of dollars of support. Meanwhile people like myself have struggled for thirty years in dead end jobs fighting to make ends meet.... Maybe they do have the right idea and I'm the stupid one who's living wrong. I don't really believe that, but it makes you wonder.

 

My heart went out to the family on this show as it appeared to me that the father has Asperger's Syndrome.  Most people on the autism spectrum will be under or unemployed due to their disability. Their verbosity, rigid thinking, poor perspective taking, impaired cause and effect, and poor social skills frequently result in job failure. Many try self employment in areas of strong interests and some do succeed. This man has good logic for things, such as how to run a household without utilities but exceptionally poor people/social logic which is typical of Asperger's. I assume that he can't  successfully work not won't work. The religion appeared to be a poor coping strategy that was plugged in to try and make some sense of a very confounding world.

It did not sound like the father was exploring his disability but it may help the family, wife, and grandparents  to do some reading on the topic. It would be good if he would be willing to get an assessment and support services specific to his disability to help with vocational and social services.

There were a lot of judgmental responses to his disability which I assume were based on a lack of awareness and understanding of Asperger's Syndrome. In my eyes the primary issue isn't religion, or homeschooling but and devastating impact on an extended family due to an undiagnosed and untreated neurological disability. As an Autism Specialist and parent of a 21 year old man who experiences autism this man's characteristics and responses to life issues were all to familiar.  How about offering him an assessment and specific support services for what appears to be a significant disability Dr. Phil?  Autism Supporter

The father on this show seems to be able to quote the Bible very well, but he also picks and choses what he thinks fits in to his agenda. In the past he may have failed at numerous business ventures, and did well in others.  His eyes (the window of  the soul) say something completely opposite!  They say there is a thin line between genius and insanity, this man has crossed that line.

   Are you kidding me?! I don't understand how you can so easily defend this man. He is not a lost little lamb, but a scammer who is too lazy to hold down a job. He's very good at getting every last penny of his wife's parents that was put away for their retirement, to the tune of over $50,000.00! That was hard earned money the he certainly didn't work for. And yet, with that "hand up" and a college degree he still couldn't get his act together? I take offense when you implied that "he has already done way more in his life than most of these people ever have". Again, are you kidding me? What exactly has this man done? Make more babies than he can afford to support? Yes, he is good at that! And they still continue to bring even more into this world while they cannot provide a roof over their heads, running water, heat in the winter time, and no telling what else.

   My husband is a responsible man. He is 60 years old and has worked full time since the age of 15. In the last 40 years he has worked between 110 to 140 hours per week, 7 days a week for 6 months out of the year, and 6 days a week for the other 6 months. Yet you dare to compare this man to someone like my husband? I don't think so! He has health problems at this point and needs to retire out, but he can't because I became disabled 7 years ago. We need to keep our health insurance going, even though I qualify for Medicare, we need a good prescription coverage plan for the both of us. So he doesn't have the luxury of deciding to "just not work". And BTW, we don't expect anyone to give us a handout, we take care of ourselves!

   You say that there has been no crime committed by the parents? I disagree! What about child endangerment or neglect? I believe that those are crimes. People get arrested for treating their pets in this manner. Why does the Dr. Phil show or anyone else for that matter need to help this man find a job? He has a college degree! He can get off of his butt and get out there and find a job just like everyone else has to do. What makes him better than anyone else? Nothing. How did you find your job? Did you look for yourself or did someone find it for you? When I was able to work, I had to find jobs on my own, that's pretty much the way it works.

   It's because of people like you that a man (and I use that term loosely) such as him expect to be able to get away with this type of behavior and refuse to take any responsibility for themselves. That would be fine if it was just him and his wife, they are adults and if they prefer to sleep under a bridge, that is their prerogative. But they have 7 children at home who didn't sign on for this type of life. Since when did the word "Responsibility" become a four letter word?

   Put an arm around this guy and guide him with love? Ugh! He needs to grow up!

   I agree that the children aren't bad, they are helpless victims in this situation that their parents have chosen to put them in. You know, there are thousands of people (actually millions) who are Christians but they have to get up every day and go to work to support the families that they have chosen to bring into this world. They don't sit around waiting for God to provide for them. There would be an awful lot of starving Christians out there if this was the case. And when is it Dr. Phil's position to find this man a job? This man has a college degree and two legs that are able to walk on their own. So why can't he get out there just like everyone else and find a job on his own?

   Drug addiction and alcoholism are a disease. So yes, I can understand Dr. Phil offering to help someone out under those conditions. Laziness and irresponsibility is NOT a disease! Every person on earth has to get out and find their own jobs, so why is this man different? And I also think Dr. Phil did a very good job in poking holes in all of this man's convenient passages from the Bible. Did you happen to notice that he never had an intelligent response to any of them? I'm not even going to bother responding to the rest of the drivel that you have written because it is too stupid for me to bother wasting my time. It all boils down to common sense, which this man and your post are both lacking. And BTW, I have compassion for those who are unable to help themselves, not for those who choose not to!

Seriously!! You really think this is really  a possible explanation?

 

While each person with this syndrome do exhibit some similar traits the diagnosis of this syndrome is an extensive process and is very multifaceted, as I am sure you know.  You already have him diagnosed and labeled as disabled. This man very clearly stated that he had not interest in holding down a job... that means WON'T work (at least for anyone but himself).

 

It amazes me how many times when people do irresponsible and/or stupid things the need to 'diagnose' a syndrome/condition is overwhelming.

 

How about sometimes it just is what it is??!! 

I've had quite a bit of experience dealing with people with autism and asperger's syndrome.  However, I have dealt with several people with bi-polar disorders.  In my humble opinion, Dan seemed to have manic tendencies and of course they never work out as planned.  He's got some mental problems, I'm willing to bet.  Can you believe that he's angry with grandma for butting in their business??!  Once they come to grandma for money, it's her business now! 

I am a church going Christian and I think Dan's hiding behind that "God's will stuff" as an excuse for his failures.  I've heard that Bible passages are commonly used by mentally ill people because how can anyone dare question them if they say "God" told me to do that?! 

If Dan was truly doing "God's Will" then his businesses, etc. would PROSPER.  The God I know wouldn't be whispering in that man's ear ways to bilk the government with special license plates in order to pay for  his ever growing family that he can't support.   The woman is just as guilty, in my opinion. He isn't having all those kids by himself that they are neglecting. 

God promises he'll feed the birds but he doesn't throw the worms up in the nest!

Dr. Phil did a great job with trying to talk to that couple and Dan had no answers.  You can't argue with someone mentally ill and change their minds.  That couple has got to want to change and Dr. Phil recognizes that.

This show originally aired in February.  It re-aired in July and the family were losing their home soon because they weren't paying the mortgage.  I wonder what happened after the show aired the first time?  Did they end up on the street?  Did Child Protective Services take the children away?  I wish they'd follow up on these shows!

   It got to me also that this person has already diagnosed him without having ever met that man! I happen to know of a lot of people just like him, mostly men of course, who may not use the Bible as their excuse, but they sure have plenty of other excuses on hand as to why they can never hold down a job. I know one man in particular who has made his wife support him and their family, (yes, I think she should should leave him!) while he has sat on his big butt throughout their entire marriage and has only worked for only a few months here and there at a time. I have always compared him to the dorky cousin in the movie "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation) because they both are holding out for a management position. Most people have to work their way up to a management position, not just walk in without experience and expect one to be handed over "just because they feel they deserve it"!

   And not everybody has the great luck in life of getting to own their own business. That is not even reasonable, someone has to work for them too! Whatever you choose to do as an adult is your business, but when you bring children into this world, you had better be responsible for them if it means that you have to take a job at 7-11. Honest pay for honest work. I have more respect for people who work at mini marts and fast food places than I do for this man. Actually, I have NO respect for this man at all! But I have great respect for someone who works at any honest business, no matter what it is.

   I love your remark where you state "It amazes me how many times when people do irresponsible and/or stupid things the need to diagnose a syndrome/condition is overwhelming."

   You hit the nail on the head with that one! If you want to, you could take any individual and find a syndrome/condition to diagnose them with to suit that persons needs. And personally, I think that Dr. Phil would have picked up on it if this man did have a mental problem. There is a great deal of interviews and preparation that goes on before he has a guest on the show. It's not as if he walks out onto that stage blind to what he is going to deal with. This man is just plain lazy, irresponsible, and only wants to do things his way. It's his way or no way! And I have just as much blame for the wife too, she should know better than to allow this not only too continue, but to have even more children that they cannot take care of. Why isn't she holding down a job while he stays home with the kids? Does she have a syndrome/condition too? I would LOVE to hear a response to that question! Do they both have the same condition?

   As Fiestyd said, "sometimes it just is what it is"!