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Topic : 07/16 Bully Husband

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Created on : Thursday, February 14, 2008, 03:51:34 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 02/20/08) Dr. Phil takes on a couple whose story will shock you. Karen says she’s tired of being degraded and controlled by Rick, her husband of six years. She says he calls her “fat pig” and “fat whore,” criticizes her makeup, makes fat jokes and puts photos of nearly naked women on their computer and exercise machine to motivate her. Karen says if she tries to get close to him, he pushes her away and says, “Don’t even touch me until you’re under 200 pounds.” Rick says when he married Karen, she was within his standards, but now she definitely isn’t. He says he’s just trying to motivate his wife, but says it’s a good thing when they fight physically because it’s good exercise “when the beast wails her arms.” Karen says she puts up with the mental abuse because they have two children, and as crazy as it sounds, she still loves him. Is there a chance to salvage this relationship? Tell us what you think!

Find out what happened on the show.

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February 21, 2008, 11:25 am PST

Today Marks 27 years

I watched the show yesterday because I mostly wanted to hear if Dr. Phil would describe what really happens to a person who lives this life.  As my life has become isolated, kids gone, long work hours & little time & energy for anything else I have time to think rationally.  To all that think Karen should leave - these men suck you dry.  The times you attempt to talk it out you are left so emotionally sucked dry you just don't have the energy to breath some days.  Sometimes you just think that leaving him will add your list of faults and it's too unbearable to think of.  And they do offer some good things.  I always remember an Oprah show where she said something about there has to be something good about them otherwise nobody would like them.  When you're at your lowest and really feel this is all you can take they have an incredible radar and they turn on the charm.  They do an extra chore, they share something with you, they have this radar that picks up that you're not buying it and they turn it all on again to win you back. 

Lately I've been riding out the charming times and recognize that the indifference, ignoring and little insults slilp right back into full swing in no time.  In fact it's kind of a game to see if I respond even slightly how quickly we get back into pattern.

Today is my 27th anniversary and it's really sad because I've spent the past week trying to think of a time in the 27 years that I felt easily, comfortably, calmly at peace with my husband.  Three kids, all those holidays, vacations, those family times and the past 5 yrs just us.  There are some great memories of really good times.  We're grandparents and our happiest moments are with the kids, we make a great team of loving them. 

It's still what I feel in my soul.  I think about the rough times & there were plenty & I realize that he never, ever turned to me.  I try to think of when I was pregnant, new babies, money struggles, lose of jobs, illness, rough times with teenagers - he never turned to me, he always turned out to someone else.  How'd I forgive that?  Well, I always found out way afterward when he was loving me again (the crisis was over) and it was all so good "now" why not try.  He'd never spend money or not come home or physically abuse me or outwardly, boldly emotionally abuse me.  He's good at his game, he is a master.  He is the one that knows it all.

This past Thanksgiving, my favorite holiday of the year but I've martyred it for years cooking for everyone and entertaining the dysfunctional family he did his head game & ended up calling me the worst name ever -beginning with f and c.  It absolutely ruined my holiday no matter how much he apologized and begged for forgiveness.  He didn't know I was onto his pattern.  His words still hurt but only on the surface.

We don't leave because we're tired, worn down and just not strong enough.  Send Karen your strength in your thoughts, not your anger.  She really doesn't need to hear she's spineless too.  

 
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February 21, 2008, 11:34 am PST

Empathy Required

All of you who are critical of this woman need to back off.  You don't haveany idea what makes her take this abuse.  Those of you who would walk away the first time a man insulted you or hit you, good for you!  There are woman out there like her and me who didn't.  I won the trifecta for females for abuse.  I was sexually abused from the time I was 8, raped at 25, cancer at 27 and met Mr. Wonderful six weeks after my last cancer surgery.  My self-esteem was zero and this "bully husband" could have been mine. I put up with the verbal, emotional and physical abuse for 7 years (married him after 6!).  I didn't leave, he did.  The man saved my life as I truly believed he would kill me eventually but I "LOVED" him and couldn't leave.

 

I know now that to have something better in your life you have to truly believe that you deserve it.  I never thought I did.  This woman believes she doesn't deserve any better.  She has some personal issues in her life that she didn't share and can't truly be dealt with unless she does.  Hopefully, the counselor provided by Dr. Phil will help her identify these issues and come to terms with them.  This is NOT about her weight!  I was too thin, then too fat, then too thin.  She will never be pretty enough, smart enough, thin enough, add to this list what you want, for this man.  He has no respect for her and will never forget what abuse she allowed him to inflict on her.  It will continue. 

 

She needs the tools to build her own self-esteem and I disagree with Dr. Phil on one point.  She can't do this with him in the house!  She will constantly be barraged with insults and no matter how hard she tries in therapy, it will be undone the minute she walks through the door of her own home.  The first three months away from an abuser are the hardest and with constant education of the cycles of domestic violence and abuse, personal therapy and the support of women who have been there, she will get better.  She needs to reach out to other women in her community who have already broken this cycle.  They can keep her from repeating it with her own daughter. 

 

I have taken advantage of the education offered by my own local domestic violence shelter without living in and I now I volunteer to mentor to other women in my community who have been victims of rape and domestic violence.  It is a 24-hour a day commitment but women helping other women is the best way to stop this!  Telling her YOU would leave is not the answer.  YOU don't know what has happened in her life to led to this point. 

 

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February 21, 2008, 11:46 am PST

Bully Husband

It's obvious what this guy's problem is - he is impotent - that is why he does not wish intimacy with his wife - not because she is overweight.  He uses that has an excuse.
 
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February 21, 2008, 11:49 am PST

02/20 Bully Husband

Quote From: colorbee

I watched the show yesterday because I mostly wanted to hear if Dr. Phil would describe what really happens to a person who lives this life.  As my life has become isolated, kids gone, long work hours & little time & energy for anything else I have time to think rationally.  To all that think Karen should leave - these men suck you dry.  The times you attempt to talk it out you are left so emotionally sucked dry you just don't have the energy to breath some days.  Sometimes you just think that leaving him will add your list of faults and it's too unbearable to think of.  And they do offer some good things.  I always remember an Oprah show where she said something about there has to be something good about them otherwise nobody would like them.  When you're at your lowest and really feel this is all you can take they have an incredible radar and they turn on the charm.  They do an extra chore, they share something with you, they have this radar that picks up that you're not buying it and they turn it all on again to win you back. 

Lately I've been riding out the charming times and recognize that the indifference, ignoring and little insults slilp right back into full swing in no time.  In fact it's kind of a game to see if I respond even slightly how quickly we get back into pattern.

Today is my 27th anniversary and it's really sad because I've spent the past week trying to think of a time in the 27 years that I felt easily, comfortably, calmly at peace with my husband.  Three kids, all those holidays, vacations, those family times and the past 5 yrs just us.  There are some great memories of really good times.  We're grandparents and our happiest moments are with the kids, we make a great team of loving them. 

It's still what I feel in my soul.  I think about the rough times & there were plenty & I realize that he never, ever turned to me.  I try to think of when I was pregnant, new babies, money struggles, lose of jobs, illness, rough times with teenagers - he never turned to me, he always turned out to someone else.  How'd I forgive that?  Well, I always found out way afterward when he was loving me again (the crisis was over) and it was all so good "now" why not try.  He'd never spend money or not come home or physically abuse me or outwardly, boldly emotionally abuse me.  He's good at his game, he is a master.  He is the one that knows it all.

This past Thanksgiving, my favorite holiday of the year but I've martyred it for years cooking for everyone and entertaining the dysfunctional family he did his head game & ended up calling me the worst name ever -beginning with f and c.  It absolutely ruined my holiday no matter how much he apologized and begged for forgiveness.  He didn't know I was onto his pattern.  His words still hurt but only on the surface.

We don't leave because we're tired, worn down and just not strong enough.  Send Karen your strength in your thoughts, not your anger.  She really doesn't need to hear she's spineless too.  

At my first domestic violence education class (free and offered at most shelters to the community), there was this woman who had been married 42 years.  She hadn't left but described your marriage to a 't'.  He didn't hit her but was emotionally abusive.  She was attending this class to help her help her daughters who were trapped in marriages and relationships that were abusive.  I urge you to call your local domestic violence shelter and ask about educational programs available to women in your area.  They are free and do not require registration.  He doesn't have to know you are attending.  Or, just go by and talk to someone there.  They will give you information that will help you break this cycle.  You don't have to leave to feel better about yourself.  You seem to already have the cycle down and that is one of the first things they teach you.  Educate yourself more and you won't be able to believe what you can accomplish and how much better you feel about yourself! 

 

I've been out 14 years now and volunteer my time to mentor to other women in your situation.  Find another woman you are comfortable with and talk!  It works like any other addiction, you need someone who understands where you are coming from to help.

 

 
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February 21, 2008, 11:54 am PST

very good point

Quote From: patsdaughter

All of you who are critical of this woman need to back off.  You don't haveany idea what makes her take this abuse.  Those of you who would walk away the first time a man insulted you or hit you, good for you!  There are woman out there like her and me who didn't.  I won the trifecta for females for abuse.  I was sexually abused from the time I was 8, raped at 25, cancer at 27 and met Mr. Wonderful six weeks after my last cancer surgery.  My self-esteem was zero and this "bully husband" could have been mine. I put up with the verbal, emotional and physical abuse for 7 years (married him after 6!).  I didn't leave, he did.  The man saved my life as I truly believed he would kill me eventually but I "LOVED" him and couldn't leave.

 

I know now that to have something better in your life you have to truly believe that you deserve it.  I never thought I did.  This woman believes she doesn't deserve any better.  She has some personal issues in her life that she didn't share and can't truly be dealt with unless she does.  Hopefully, the counselor provided by Dr. Phil will help her identify these issues and come to terms with them.  This is NOT about her weight!  I was too thin, then too fat, then too thin.  She will never be pretty enough, smart enough, thin enough, add to this list what you want, for this man.  He has no respect for her and will never forget what abuse she allowed him to inflict on her.  It will continue. 

 

She needs the tools to build her own self-esteem and I disagree with Dr. Phil on one point.  She can't do this with him in the house!  She will constantly be barraged with insults and no matter how hard she tries in therapy, it will be undone the minute she walks through the door of her own home.  The first three months away from an abuser are the hardest and with constant education of the cycles of domestic violence and abuse, personal therapy and the support of women who have been there, she will get better.  She needs to reach out to other women in her community who have already broken this cycle.  They can keep her from repeating it with her own daughter. 

 

I have taken advantage of the education offered by my own local domestic violence shelter without living in and I now I volunteer to mentor to other women in my community who have been victims of rape and domestic violence.  It is a 24-hour a day commitment but women helping other women is the best way to stop this!  Telling her YOU would leave is not the answer.  YOU don't know what has happened in her life to led to this point. 

 I appreciate your compassion for Karen's past suffering.  I agree that the sense of deserving abuse most often comes from suffering prior abuse and/or neglect.  I also cannot imagine building health within the house of the abuser.  I know I could not do it.  I also want to point out that a person can be beaten down over time.  Fear of the abuser becomes fear of death - too many times - and for good reason.  How many abusers kill their spouses? This is the strongest fear within us, according to every system of psycological thought I have studied, both in eastern and western thought.
So the person literally has to come to the place of saying - I will do anything to escape.
Thank-you for serving women who have taken this first step - to leave their abuser.  health takes time and work - but it can come.
 
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February 21, 2008, 12:01 pm PST

Short Version Karen

Leave

 

Nothing will get better until you leave.

 

Leave and don't look back.

 

Then listen for the little voice inside your head that is telling you that you are alright.

 

And you will be.

 

But remember, the first thing is, LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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February 21, 2008, 12:11 pm PST

Dr. Phil? Robin need to do more pre-marital advice

Quote From: alinepenni

I recall hearing that, "For some people, the only way to look good is to make others look bad". This seems to be the case with this husband. You hit the nail square on the head when you say that he can only feel superior if others are inferior. Unfortunately, you are also correct when you say that NPD (which is classified as a mental disorder, BTW) is VERY difficult to treat.

 

Helping the wife to understand that the issues surrounding their marriage are due in large part to his mental disorder is only the first step. She will need serious intervention to recognize that she allowed this man to demean her. She still "believes" that she loves him. A co-dependent person is one who finds their self worth based on others' opinions of them. If the man you "love" and place above everyone else says you are defective, you belive him!

 

She lives in a world of hope that eventually he will revert back to that "Mr. Wonderful" who first loved her so many years ago, if only she  tries hard enough, or losses enough weight, or says the right thing.  This woman remembers how happy she once was with her husband, and has stayed with him in order to find that "secret formula" which will bring them back to that place. She hangs on in hopes of living a future with him and their children as SHE had expected. She needs much helping in accepting that the man she fell in love with does not exist, and most likely never did. A person suffering with NPD comes on strong and flattering, making their target feel wonderful and precious. The minute "less than perfection" (which is perceived as a reflection of themselves... remember, Narcissus was doomed to stare into a pool of water at himself)  appears, it's unacceptable and the narcissist turns a cruel  response upon his "reflection".

 

 

I'm willing to bet that, if  Karen looked back on it now, she would see that there were signs from the beginning and he never really was "Mr. Wonderful."   I find it hard to believe that he suddenly turned into a monster after she gained weight.  If  he is that shallow, there must have been signs.  I'm willing to bet he was the type to have nudie pin-ups in  his garage, even when they were courting. 

I would like to see Dr. Phil -- actually Robin -- conduct a workshop on how to find the good guys and what clues to look for BEFORE a woman gets married.  They could spare a lot of broken souls.
 
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February 21, 2008, 12:31 pm PST

Disgusted

This "guy" is no man at all. For him to be as unattractive as he is and as fat, to put down his wife and push it off on her is disgusting. Does he realize no one wants a bully or finds one attractive at all? He didn't seem remorseful at all and seemed not to care that she was hurting. He admitted, somewhat, that he was wrong but you can tell he has no intentions of changing. I hope she leaves him. I hope her children don't turn out like their father. I hope even more she leaves him for the sake of their children before they end up victims or become like him.
 
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February 21, 2008, 12:37 pm PST

Words Of Wisdom

Quote From: patsdaughter

At my first domestic violence education class (free and offered at most shelters to the community), there was this woman who had been married 42 years.  She hadn't left but described your marriage to a 't'.  He didn't hit her but was emotionally abusive.  She was attending this class to help her help her daughters who were trapped in marriages and relationships that were abusive.  I urge you to call your local domestic violence shelter and ask about educational programs available to women in your area.  They are free and do not require registration.  He doesn't have to know you are attending.  Or, just go by and talk to someone there.  They will give you information that will help you break this cycle.  You don't have to leave to feel better about yourself.  You seem to already have the cycle down and that is one of the first things they teach you.  Educate yourself more and you won't be able to believe what you can accomplish and how much better you feel about yourself! 

 

I've been out 14 years now and volunteer my time to mentor to other women in your situation.  Find another woman you are comfortable with and talk!  It works like any other addiction, you need someone who understands where you are coming from to help.

 

I never thought of a abuse help center focusing on emotional abuse.  I really believed that it was for the women that were physically abused.  I'm going to give it some thought. 

I just don't want Karen to doubt for a moment that things will get better.  At least her "spouse" is bold about his abuse.  He comes right out and does it.  She can't hear it or see it because it's gone on for so long.  My husband says the same things just very, very subtly.  It's a mind game of listening to him.  Just the other day I was talking to our adult son & said something & I hear him in the kitchen telling me not to say that.  What the heck?  See only I heard it.  I only I heard the name calling on Thanksgiving.  Or when I had one piece of chocolate, one piece & he says "don't be eating junk all the time."  Words from a man that can consume a cake in 2 days, eats 3 bowls of cereal in the night.  My response is "what calories don't count in the middle of the night & when no one sees you?" 

These men are so controlling it's insane.  You can't talk to them.  I actually am left speechless when I try to express something - whether it be in the "right" tone, the "right" time (there are so many rules) and I'm actually asked "where do you get off? there's a list of things that I could say about you but I keep my mouth shut"  And every arguement turns into a long list of my faults.  And I'm asked why it's always his fault?  And then I get the "lets just kiss and stop this treatment of each other."   And if I reject it, well I'm just unreasonable & never want us to be happy. 

I once told him in the 1 of 2 counseling sessions we had - if I lost my legs & arms he'd be the most supportive person in the world for a short while.  Then it would slowly turn to "what about me, I'm married to a woman with no arms & legs, don't you feel sorry for me."  If that sentence fits run like the wind. 

I just don't talk anymore.   Which has had me question my relations at work & with friends.  I feel like I'm drowning and there is no life preserver.  I know in my heart that I'm okay but these past few years I've really started to question who I am because I'm smart & I see all of this & I don't go.  I've had the most supportive people in the world and I'm still here.  I find myself spending all my free time in my home and loving the moments when I'm completely alone.  My mom is dying - well she's what we call a cliffhanger - any moment a crisis could take her but she clings on forever & I think that's when I'll go when my mom is gone and I can deal with this without a hiccup coming down the road to make me come back. 

I'm going to try a crisis center so that I can get my thoughts straight.  Thanks

 

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February 21, 2008, 12:39 pm PST

02/20 Bully Husband

OK  she needs to wake up-  leave him, staying with him IS child abuse. There are way too many facilities that offer assistance.
 
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