PLEASE I know this is long but please read through.............. And start reading everything you can on "how to get away" etc. And start getting things ready. When the show in March is over if she is still with him I predict the preverbial poop is going to hit the fan & Dr. Jeykle is going to turn back once again into Mr. Hyde!
It's going to be REAL hard to hang around & wait for when she's ready but Karen IS going to need help when the time comes. A good friend or a close family member is *invaluable* to a woman in her position. If you have to *back away now* with the understanding of "when you need me I'm here" then that's what you should do. Or if you can be an ally in her plan to escape then that's a great of course but you may at some point be banned from the house & that may even be by Karen herself. I know this sounds very "dramatic" & I don't want it to sound that way but the truth is Karen might as well have been taken by a cult & brainswashed..........
Ok tell tale signs of abuse & the isolation of the abusers victim in your post..........
"The support , closeness and love that Karen has from her family is what you hate most about us. "
You are VERY correct in this assessment. And he's going to REALLY HATE ME for telling you all this! Butttt I'll do it any way. :) Ths *Isolation* of their PREY is so "classic" it's just written over, & over & over. How can he possibly convince her she is just utterly *good for nothing* & completely "break her spirit" with the support of her family telling her the opposit? It's "classic" & calculated............
They will "move them from family & friends too. &/or they will insult family members or conive some way to create a "rift"............... in your next 2 sentences
1. "We don't tell her what to do in her own life, but we are listening" So this is Rick now blaming things on the family for telling her what to do......? It's a "shifting of the blame" which is classic not only for an abuser but particularly for the narcissist! It's not EVER going to be his fault & even when he's admitting he's doing something "not right" it's because he's forced to do it. :) This is particularly true right now for himm because if Rick is suppose to be "working on this in counseling" he'll need someone to blame things on besides Karen herself. He will than likely be on his *best behavior* with Karen right now & this is all a TRICK! Back to isolation though......more than likely you "telling her what to do" is also you re-enforcing her that none of the things Rick says are right. How could be possily allow you to contradict him? He doesn't want anyone "Listening to her" Or reassuring her that she is correct in anything because the goal of an abuser is to get her to the point that she *doesn't know what is right* & questions *herself* & actually accepts the blame etc. etc. Dr. Phil had this in the list of effects the narcissist has on his *victim* & I believe it was that she will "Start to point out the fault her abuser points out to her even when he's not there." So she will actually end up abusing herself verbally &/or picking out who "dumb she is" or "how unattractive" or how she "can't do anything correct". etc. He can't get her to this point with her family there telling her she's really capable of great stuff. So you all gotta go......... And now what did you say about HIS family? Well more on that in a minute first we'll go to #2 statement this part of the isolation................
2. "If all of this helps you to change, then I can forgive all of the times that we have suffered it."
He doesn't care if you've suffered. YOU represent a voice of reason to Karenas well as her way out if & when she's had enough. He doesn't want your forgiveness & he doesn't care about this. It does not matter *what he says* this is THE reason he behaves the way he does around YOU. And me? If he's reading along here with the things I've given away it'll insight him! I'll be everything under the sun he can think of ie "a man hater, a women's liber, a beotch, a bitter divorced woman, " etc. etc. I'm nothing of the kind but he's gonna really be ticked off here. :( And people are going to have to be REAL CAREFUL around him & I hope I'm making myself real clear here.........
Generational abuse - "You're family also needs to be supportive of Karen instead of ridiculing her the way you do. They do not help matters because they are only supportive of you and what you are telling them"
Have you ever watched the movie "the burning bed"? get a copy & watch it unfold & who's family is right there all along enabling? The movie when it's on TV is alway really cut up & I don't think they show the son attacking the parents like he did too.
More than likely the abuse is generational & this is the life he lived as a kid himself.... We only know the life we live & you can read above her in the "what happened on the show" in the 2nd section
Dr. Phil askes Rick - “You said you’re not arrogant, you’re just always right?”
Ricks answer - “Well, when it comes to her, yeah,” he says. “I think I grew up arrogant, whether it was with women or anything else. I was always taught, ‘If there’s somebody better than you, just do something, get on top of that person. Be as best as you can.’”
Rick realizes at the end here he is giving away that he grew up *to be arrogant* whether it was with a woman or anything else. He was TAUGHT "If there's somebody better than you, just do womething, get on top of that person". He was TAUGHT that bullying them is being "as best as you can be"! Behaviors are TAUGHT! And sadly THIS is the lesson their children will come away with too.
Rick has offered to go get help & the 1st thing he did was go to a program that was on national TV & that was to *humiliate Karen* as well! It doesn't matter if he was taken to task too because look how many people came here saying "what the hell is wrong with her"? It just re-enforces there is "something wrong with her" & it's humiliating & embarrassing. That's the name of HIS GAME. He's very calculated person & it's all going to play right into his hand. Right now they're in "counseling" & even if they're in seperate places This is going to be looking like he is the *greatest guy*! He's going to counseling & working so hard & Karen herself said here they're "both going to fix this marriage". And so *some how* she's played a part in what is wrong with it in her mind. & I will guarentee you she/he/they are not speaking of "she lets him get away with this" but he is STILL saying "If she would just loose weight & be a better house keeper etc." He is a narcissist & so to him & what he does *IF* it's not right is because *she makes him do it* . So he's probably saying if the marriage is going to be fixed it has to be THEM that works to fix it. And now if that was really him the other day that spoke here he actually said that here too or something to the effect they're working on fixing things. It's always going to be him being forced to do the things he's doing or because he's trying to "help her be a better person" or some such thing. He was TAUGHT to behave this way! Anyway I always get off on a tangent with this subject but at the start of this paragraph I was saying this was planned or a calculated thing for Rick & now here we have Karen saying they've been going to counseling & it's been so much better the past 3 weeks "it's like a dream". This is *another* calculated trick! Doesn't he look great? He's in counseling, went on TV & had Dr. Phil chew him out on national TV & so now when he takes the physo babble he's learned in therapy & starts using THAT in a twisted way against Karen he can say "Oh Holy cow I go on TV, go to counseling & even NOW you can't loose that friggin weight & ____________" whatever he's learned he can twist to hurl at her. & see now he's got therapists backing him up or at least the words they gave him!!!!!!
And see I only just saw this
"“My wife, Karen, is the problem in this marriage,” Rich says. “A lot of people think I’m arrogant. I’m not arrogant. I’m just always right. Karen always says the only person out there who’s going to save our marriage is Dr. Phil. Well, let’s see if he can.”
First this trip to see "Dr. Phil" was VERY calculated on Rick's part! Now Karen can't ever hold this over him again because even Dr. Phil couldn't "get her to do her part" & he acts the way he does *because of her* Rick only does stuff when he "is provoked"!
of course Dr. Phil answered though I don't think it was what either Rick or Karen wanted to hear!
"Well, I don’t whether I can. I don’t know whether I should. I don’t know whether I want to,” Dr. Phil says. “You have a theory? This is motivational, you say?”
Dr. Phil knows it's not really in the cards for a narcissist to change. There's simply nothing in it for them TO change. He had the world by the tail controlling her. He could have sex with other women, turn his wife down which is putting her back in her place etc. etc. And he gets to build himself up because he's got her reaching for him & he's "turning her down" & then he can do what he pleases...... There's nothing in it for him to change. the #1 reason abusers do NOT change... that is it. The only change in an abusive relationship is the *escalation*.
Next
Did you hear his entitled reasoning behind the arguments turning physical? I hadn't heard this until just now when I went back to read but basically he's so vile that it's Karen that will connect with the first smack & he "won't hit unless he's been provoked". So demeaning her beyond belief & to the point she's in a ragging frenzie is perfectly ok because he's trying to "motivate her" (cause he's taking care of her of course) & then she swings & now it's card blanch to turn it physical AND it ALL HER FAULT. SHE MADE HIM DO IT!!!!!!!! It's all very calculated & they are MASTERS at it!
Dr. Phil basically TOLD KAREN the very things I just rewrote here in these 2 lenghtly posts 1st to her & then to you. And Karen I'm affraid is still VERY confused. Dr. Phil
"tells Karen, “I think you’ve got to get centered up before you make decisions about what you want to do ... There’s a whole lot of complexity that goes into this issue, and I want you to have someone to help you, without him banging on you from the side. If I make those resources available to you, will you embrace them?”
Dr. Phil has said everything I have here & knows the odds & they are pretty horrible & if Karen stays once this "honeymoon" phase is over it's going to take a REAL turn. And so now it is Feb. & March is coming & so OF COURSE Rick has to be "on his best behavior" because they're going BACK to the show in March! If he's jerked around it'll LOOK HORRIBLE! And Rick KNOWS Dr. Phil is a GREAT resource for Karen & another way out. Once that show is over it's going to take a REAL NASTY turn & especially if all ties to Dr. Phil are severed.
I don't care what you all think of me "meddlesome beotch, crazy wacko doesn't know what she's talking about" etc. You don't know me from Adam but I'm pleading with you all to please just please read & educate yourselves as much as possible & Whatever she is to do please try to keep the connection to Dr. Phil open if that is made an option which I CAN ONLY HOPE. He pulled at least another 2 young woman out of abuse just last year that I know of & it's amazing how having some money behind you really evens out the score as far as having "power".
I wish Jen from the Jennifer & Jeffrey show would give a yell as to home much happier she is.
(Original Air Date: 02/20/08) Dr. Phil takes on a couple whose story will shock you. Karen says she’s tired of being degraded and controlled by Rick, her husband of six years. She says he calls her “fat pig” and “fat whore,” criticizes her makeup, makes fat jokes and puts photos of nearly naked women on their computer and exercise machine to motivate her. Karen says if she tries to get close to him, he pushes her away and says, “Don’t even touch me until you’re under 200 pounds.” Rick says when he married Karen, she was within his standards, but now she definitely isn’t. He says he’s just trying to motivate his wife, but says it’s a good thing when they fight physically because it’s good exercise “when the beast wails her arms.” Karen says she puts up with the mental abuse because they have two children, and as crazy as it sounds, she still loves him. Is there a chance to salvage this relationship? Tell us what you think!
