Topic : 03/03 Teens and Sex with Bishop T.D. Jakes

Putting them on birthcontrol and giving them access to abortion does not change law and culture either, which, in order to provide for the REAL needs of women, needs to be accomplished.

Birth control and protection are a start however, I find it very arrogant of you that you feel your religion and opinion is what  are the "real" needs of women.  Your stand against birth control and protection is only one of a religious nature and you have absolutely no other reason for it.  They have their own culture and their own religion and they don't need "you" to change them and tell them what they need.

They are not lacking education in protection.  Did you see the piece I posted on AIDS in Uganda?

The entire population of third world countries is not in Uganda KL.  Most women in these cultures are not educated on anything...much less protection.

Studies have shown that infidelity is higher in unmarried sexual relationships.

Ahhh yes.  Your "surveys' again where they call people up or stop them on the street and ask a married man or woman...."are you screwing around on your husband/wife"?  Those studies?  And of course everyone is honest and willing to tell a perfect stranger the most intimate part of their life.  Please, come down to reality.'

 I wish to ENCOURAGE self control, regardless of religious prefrences or lack thereof,  

A person can be very much in control and still have unmarried sex.  It simply isn't up to you to decide how and when a person exhibits self control.  Sorry.

 because of the natural consequences of engaging in pre marital and same sex sexual relationships- STDs, unwanted pregnancies, and psychological trama

Again, it isn't up to you how people conduct their personal lives.  Some people race cars...very dangerous...a young man died several years ago...famous race car driver, I doubt seriously he never had sex until he was married and yet remained healthy until his career killed him.  Perhaps you should boycott race car events.

THAT makes sense.

Thank you....now you're catching on.  What I say in these matters generally makes sense.

Ahh yes, generally when minority groups are being discriminated against drastic measures have to be taken to assure equal rights.  You wouldn't believe how many white people felt "their" rights were being infringed upon because their kids were being "bused" to formerly black schools to assure the beginning of integration and a demand that tax money didn't just go to the rich, white, public schools.

You wouldn't believe how many white people fretted and "carried on" how their "rights" were being infringed upon because a black family could now move next door to them and were no longer restricted to the ghetto and/or black neighborhoods.

Drastic times call for drastic measures.  "Oppression" of minorities is wrong whether or not you disagree or like them.  I am sure that if a Christian religious group were being "oppressed"...you would enjoy and relish in the attention of the unfairness that is being pointed out and battled.

The difference between you and me is....so would I.  Without a doubt...even though we don't agree about religion. 

Again with the assumptions.  I support abstinence until marriage, but if in the event any of my girls became pregnant, I would not send them away, I do not know of anyone who would and I doubt that anyone has recently told you that they would.

Once America goes backwards (as you suggest) instead of forwards in dealing with teen sexuality they most certainly would do this.  If society is forced to recognize sex as being "sinful" and therefore preach abstinence only to their children (as they have in the past) and it fails (which it will in many cases as it did in the past) and a teenage girl finds herself pregnant....these parents will be very hesitant in allowing the world to witness their daughter's sin and even more hesitant in admitting that this sort of "training" failed miserably.  People are famous for brushing things under the rug especially if they have been adamant in their refusal to teach their children about protection.  Will all parents do this?  No..."all parents" didn't do this in the past.  However, it can and will happen.  History can repeat itself and often does.

I take the suffering of women seriously, regardless of whether these claims come from the right or the left. 

Then why do you insist on throwing them back 100 years? 

the instances of abortion because of rape are probably over reported. 

You nor anyone else has a clue whether it is "under reported" or "over reported".  You nor anybody else (unless there was a witness) was not witness to the crime as generally a man won't rape a woman in front of witnesses.  People cannot just go about the business of "deciding for themselves" whether or not a woman's claim of rape is justified or not (unless in a court of law).  You are once again throwing women back 100 years.

After all, the whole Roe v. Wade case, which legalized abortion, was based on such a lie- Norma McCorvey (Roe) lied about being raped, as she later admitted and is now fighting to have Roe v. Wade overturned.

The "whole Roe v. Wade case" was not based on rape.  It was based on a woman having domain over her own body.

All I can say about this post is:  It isn't up to you or other "groups" to decide who is practicing "self control" and who is not.  A person can be having a very active, loving and satisfying sex life be it heterosexual or homosexual, be it married or not and still be very much in control of their life and still be a happy, productive, respected and responsible member of society.

No, the key is abstinence until marriage and heterosexual monogamy afterward.  Something you do not like for reasons you have yet to disclose

Of course I "like" marriage and heterosexual monogamy.  I experienced both those things and found them satisfying and wonderful.  However, I don't have to "live" the experience of others in order  to stand in empathy of their right to live as they choose. 

LOL....Hiya Carol !

Yeah, I saw that post a couple of days ago and didn't even bother responding because it's simply something that can't be proved or disproved....whether one wants to believe it or not  all depends on everybody's (in the family) personal testimony.  And in a family that prides itself in remaining "virgins" until marriage (even the men?), well who is going to "admit" they had premarital sex.  A family like that would ostracize anybody that would admit to unmarried sex....therefore making that person not part of the family anymore just to keep the 100% Sex Free until Marriage reputation "clean".  LOL!

I can remember many, many years ago NOBODY (my grandmother's days) would admit to premarital sex much less casual sex.  It wasn't until both my grandparents had died that my mother ran across their marriage certificate.  Seems they were lying for 50 something years about the actual "date" of their marriage.  Why?  LOL...because my uncle  (their oldest child) had already been conceived and well on the way before they got married.  LMAO!  All those years my grandmother was preaching "abstinence" to her children and grandchildren....claimed she was a virgin until her wedding night..blah blah blah.....it was all a crock.  I remember it was the first time my mother admitted to me that she was very sexually active from about the age of 16 on up.  Her mother (my grandma) preached abstinence to her CONSTANTLY. LOL

The thing about sex is...unless somebody is "caught" by getting pregnant, getting somebody else pregnant, or getting a STD.....(or unless somebody actually walks in on them) it simply cannot be proved sex is happening.  Anybody can say, "My entire family is 100% sex free until marriage...preaching abstinence works!"  However, unless one is following their family around 24 and 7 (the entire family) AND has the ability to see into the past (some sort of a psychic) or even into the future for that matter.....it's impossible to make that claim and remain credible.

Certainly if a young person (teen or adult) thinks that confession of "having sex" is going to upset the parent......they won't admit it.  I know grown adults that are in their 50's and 60's....and if their parents are still alive....."hide" the fact that they are having unmarried sex.  They feel it would just "upset" their parents (these parents are getting on in years) so why tell them.  Funny thing is their parents (in many of cases) probably did the same thing.  It's the old, "Do as I say not as I *DID*".....lol

I also know a homosexual couple, two guys, that have been living together for over 20 years.  One of the men's parents know...but the other set of parents have no idea.  They became pregnant with this man pretty late in life so they are both in their 90's now which would make them in their 70's when these two men met.  The man of these parents told me there is no point in upsetting them.  They are both extremely homophobic and think he's just a "confirmed bachelor" and his life partner....just his "buddy". 

I asked the man...."are you sure they don't know?"  He said, "Oh yes!  I have no doubt they don't have any idea.  They are both very out spoken, religious and fire and brimstone type as well, they would be trying to "save" him if they knew."  Of this he is completely confident.  I am quite sure they go around telling people, "My family is 100% homosexual free!"  :0)    if they only knew