Topic : 08/05 Fat Abusers

rainpainrain no I didn't go to the show.  And I guess my post was confusing because I hadn't see the top part of the show but I was responding to the last comment at the top of this message board where they have the caption on the show.  The part on Karen and Rick is an update from a preivous show and I think if you click on "rick" it'sll take you to that show.  This verbal and emotional abuse was pretty bad and it had already escalated to physical fighting that (in his words) were he never became "physical without provocation" .  So I guess if he's telling her she's a fat whore and she slaps him that's card blanch to give it to her back?  He'd been opening magazines and asking the kids "don't you wish Mommy looked like that?"  and stuff like that.  He'd gone out and been necking and petting with some woman and had taped her picture to the treatmill so it would inspire him to work out.  Oh yea he's not without a weight problem himself but that doesn't stop him from calling his wife a "fat slob"?  He gives *detailed directions how to clean the house* because aparently his wife doesn't do it just right.  I would have given him reason LONG ago for it to have turned physical cause I should have stuffed that list down his throat.  Seriously I would have packed his bag & he'd have found himself just out.  But this woman Karen says that she doesn't want to leave him because of the children and because as crazy as it sounds she still loves him.  The poor dear doesn't realize that the person she loves was an illusion to suck her in so he could abuse.  :(  I feel for her I do.  Dr. Phil knew all this and basically said as much Frankly I think over the past few years even Dr. Phil has been given an education by us board people to the real dynamics behind abuse etc.  I  think the average therapist or counselor didn't realize that trying to "give counsel" just gave these narcissists amunition to further abuse.   Her friends and a few family members had come on board to try to reach out to her  & I hope they were able to make a connection.  Karen was working a full time job but had *no money* because he was the one who paid the bills etc.  You know right now as *everyone is watching* this abuser has to be on good behavior and so if she's to make a touchie change now is the time to do it and I tried to tell her to make her check now a auto dept. into an account he does not have access to.  Then she can give money back for bills and she no longer has to ask for an allowance that she was not given?  She needed to start taking back some of her power while people were watching.  The escalation had gotten so that it's libel to turn real ugly once things go quiet.  Apparently she's far from her family and closer to his and they "side with him"?  I imagine it's generational.   I've this horrible feeling that they're thinking they can "work it out" even though Dr. Phil sounded as though he had this guys # and the title "narcissist" was Dr. Phils.    I dunno what's happened since,  Karens been on the message board but I guess they're not suppose to say anything until the show airs.  I have so much trouble watching this stuff because I always wanna reach in and just pull these victims out.   And really it has to come from therm.  Anyway when I saw above it said that "viewers where speechless" I thought "well I was a viewer and I had plenty to say along with many others".  LOL  I'll admit that I had a dropped jaw as I'd watched but there's plenty of people who responded and had a LOT to say.   

Here is the link to the first show with Rick and Karen. 

 

 

http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1038/

 

 

Momakababe, don't you believe in giving people another chance? Hasn't anyone given you the opportunity to redeem yourself for something in your life you may have regretted? Everyone in the world deserves that chance for no one is perfect. Myself, my wife Karen, and all the viewers included.... I appreciate you taking up the whole comment board from the first show and directing people with your advice, for people do need to realize that there is something you can do to take on this disease. And my wife appreciated all the support from the readers. But like I said maybe you need to get your own advice show to tell people what to do instead of spending all your time in front of the computer trying to ruin families. You can call it " ONE CHANCE ONLY " Yes, I am mad about your comments but it was understandable, but please don't say I'm behaving until this blows over, for my counseler and myself am working very hard on correcting this, and my wife Karen and I are doing whatever it takes to save this marriage. And it's not a overnight fix, there will be setbacks and advancements, for it is very hard for a person to change when they are used to something they have been doing for awhile... But it can be done. And if I have to be the poster person to show that it can be done, then I will. For I love my wife and kids, and I will stick with this till the end. Thank you for your concern.    " Rick"

Well, I missed the first show, and I will wait to see this show...but I don't think it's terrible to advise people to not stay with someone abusive. You must understand that...right? Not everyone has the resources you got from the show to change...

Rick, I'm looking forward to seeing you and Karen back on the show. I guess there will be "less" of you two, this time around.

What I believe is that I'm tired of watching abusers verbally and emotionally destroy their victims untill they are so helpless they are then there's for the taking physically.  I believe I'm tired of seeing women beaten in the name of "I was provoked".  I believe I'm tired of hearing the abused woman saying she "thought this is just the way life was because that's how she grew up!"  Just like you pointing out women in mag. to your daughter and saying "don't you wish mom looked like this?"  So did the father say those things and ended up having the *kids verbally abuse her to* and they thought EVERYONE sat there everyday having the family meeting where they'd call mommy "a stupid slutty whore......"   What had you said on the show that day your daughter is " little and doesn't know?  Those children were so young they didn't even know till much later they were bad words etc.  they thought it was like saying "i'm going to the store".  That father never touched his kids and yet they are so destroyed they will NEVER be right! THAT sir is what I believe!    I believe I'm tired of seeing your family in the headlines EVERY SINGLE WEEK!  That sir is what I believe. 

 

yes I'm sure it's very upsetting to have me tell your wife to take back her power by taking back her pay check.  :)  I'm sure it must really piss you off huh?.  :) 

 

The fact is you ARE a narcissist *not my words* sir!  And I'm sure you & your counseler are working very hard on correcting this but the fact that you're *still* playing the victim and now passing the buck of who it is that "ruined" your family says that the assessment of you is indeed correct!  it would be YOU sir that has ruined it for you not me pointing out the broken family/life and you as the abuser......

 

And you think because I'm telling your wife to take back her power and/or to get the heck out of dodge I'm a "One Chance Only" person?  How many times had you called her a "fat whore"?  And how often has she accepted that or tried to let it roll off her?  You asked if I've ever had someone give me the opportunity to redeem myself and yes I have but that's because I took the responsibility for what I did.  If I've been abusive that's me and there is no reason for it period.  If you're walking around abusing and calling your wife names there's no reason "she has to work on it" it's *your abuse* .   Working on your marriage is NOT about her being over weight or not doing the housework correctly or not being able tomanage the money good enough.  It's YOUR work on YOU!  YOU are the problem not her!  HER problem now is what she needs to work on for HER and HER CHILDREN!  And what she needs to work on is herself and taking back her power and work on the self esteem you've deteriorated with your venom.   If you are unable to accept or admit that it means you haven't even admitted what the issues ARE!   Doctor Phil told you this way back on the show and yet some how this came back around to you & your wife working to fix the marriage.  Your wife doesn't have the ability to fix anything because it's YOU that is broke NOT HER!   

 

"My wife and I are doing whatever it takes to fix this marriage" I imagine it must be a tough one for you to have to hold your tongue from calling her vile names to "motivate her" huh? The "setbacks and advancments" that you speak of does that mean every once in a while you get to slip in a little "I just can't stand to be around your fat?"  Or some kind of mean cutting words to keep her in her place while you "work with your therapist?   It must be hard work not to leave her the "honey do list" explaining how to do things etc.  And allowing a REAL balance in power?  That must be the tougest of all....... 

 

I'm sure being use to just hauling off with a nasty comment to set her straight must be really hard to change?  And well I guess that's the easiest way to say "it's hard for me to change completely when I've been doing the finaces and had control of that all this time".  Good line to get her to not insist on taking back her check.  After all you're "in counseling" and working SO DARN HARD.  What more can be expected of you, you poor baby......... 

 

but ohmygosh now I'm the meanie old woman who is so "unfair to you"  and denying you redeemtion?  And "taking up the whole comment board"? you poor poor baby.   LOL  is that kind of like you had to do all those things because your wife makes you because she's just so unable to lose weight?  Or like you had to leave the detailed to do list because she's not capable of dusting?   Is that like being "provoked into becoming physical and where you're wrestling on the floor until someone gets hurt?"   None of it your doing but just because you have too.  What did you say to Dr. Phil?  You WERE trying!  but she just wouldn't change right?  LOL even after he'd given all the things a narcissistis abuser does to his victim you STILL said you "don't think she can change"  LOL  not the smoothest there are ya?  

 

You sir are however *classic* and you'll not change because narcissist do not change.  This is *not my theory* but the words of many many man victims of *narcissists* and therapists/counselers too!   I gave your wife 1 link to a page for a support group with the listing of the characteristics and *she came back saying* "he has them all."   They all gave their ABUSERS many many changes and allowed the opportunity to "redeem thamselves" over & over.  It's a huge mistake! 

 

you said "  for people do need to realize that there is something you can do to take on this disease."  I didn't realize that this "personality disorder" is now considered an "illness"?  LOL I guess that's a pretty effective argument for you to hand your poor wife now huh?  I can hear it now "I can over come this honey if you just support me through this & you vowed to sick with me in sickness and health".   A narcissist is a *MASTER* at playing the victim and will use ANYTHING to manipulate.  That includes looking to become an ally with their prey!  I know these tactics well because I was *almost victim to one* and was surrounded by many ALL of my life! 

 

A naracissist will suck the very life from it's prey and they don't change.  If their prey gets away or if their prey no long presents a challenge to them they simply move on to the next thing they can suck dry. 

 

And yes there is HUGE concern from me for your wife and the kids that this cycle of *abuse* will just continue on.   Calling your daughter a b*t*h  and her seeing her mother continually verbally, emotionally & physically abused is the beginning of her conditioning to *expect this treatment from her husband*  And yea if I can get just 1 woman to see the *reality*  of the situation and help her then I've done what Ineeded to do!

 

I haven't even begun to expose you never mind give direction in how to "get away" and no I won't think twice about pulling out all the stops like the *children of the abused* to please let her know how it feels to see your mother abused or how the children themselves turn out!  And if that's me being a meanie and not giving you a "second chance" then oh well I'm just a big ole beotch.  LOL  But no I won't stop pointing out the others who gave "a 2nd chance" and ended up pulled in and beaten etc.  you an't seen nothing yet.  I'll just continue to expose you for what a narcissist really is....... and hmmm speaking of calling you out on stuff. 

 

YOUR last line " For I love my wife and kids, and I will stick with this till the end." who's end would you be speaking of and is that a threat?  I mean is that your way of saying you're going to work on it if it kills you all and that would be "the end"?  Yea I believe I'm tired of reading the HEADLINES SIR! 

 

see I'll be curious to see what doctor phil has to say tomorrow but I don't think it looks good here at all.......This is a piece from the end of the last show and even after admitting his behavior is "abuse" and having the effects of a narcissistic abuser spelled out in front of him and admiting that they defy what he says he was trying to do "motivate her to lose weight"  being told he's beeing "justifying the abuse " if he's lead by words or set up he goes right back into how it's her fault and how she's made him do the things he's done because she's just not "up to his standards" and it's not because he's arrogant but he just doesn't think she can change......   This is just the tip of it and it was pretty hard to watch.  Doctor Phil doesn't hold out much hope that he's going to change because Narcissists just don't see that they are in the wrong and/or they will just continue to justify or pass the responsibility to others.  Like me now.  :)   I was so ill by the end of the show I literally had to go to the gym to work it off!  Seems I've disturbed him now and ummm that's ok.  Perhaps he's PO'd at me because Karen's listened and is insisting on deposting her own pay check and he's lost some of that control?  I hope so!    Anyway I'm sure they'll play clips from the last show and here is just the end piece......

 

"

 

Dr. Phil tells Rick, “I’m trying to educate you, and I’m telling you that this is abuse, and your level of insight is very low … You’ve spent the entire time justifying it. Despite the fact that there are terrible results, you think you’re right. You’re right; she’s just too dumb to get it. I mean, if she’d just perk up a little and get with the program, you could just lead everybody out of this maze.”

“I don’t want to come right out and say that, but yeah,” Rick says. “And I don’t say that to be arrogant. It’s just the truth. You can’t change somebody, you know?”

“That’s my fear, that you can’t change somebody, because you’re the one that I’d want to be changing,” Dr. Phil tells him. “Let me tell you: You’re going to do exactly the same thing to your children as you’re doing to her, and they’re going to grow up as broken spirits.”

“I don’t think so. I love my children,” he says. 

“Yeah, you loved her too,” Dr. Phil points out. He offers to arrange some counseling for them individually. He tells Karen, “I think you’ve got to get centered up before you make decisions about what you want to do ... There’s a whole lot of complexity that goes into this issue, and I want you to have someone to help you, without him banging on you from the side. If I make those resources available to you, will you embrace them?”

“I sure will,” Karen says.

Rick accepts as well. “I’ll do anything that I need to do to change,” he says.

from the last show ".” Karen says Rick also controls the money. “He doesn’t give me an allowance. I have to sell items on eBay to have money to spend for myself, for things that I need,” 

 

You work a full time job.  I said on the other board and I'll say here too. 

 

"Karen I can only hope that you've started to redirect your paycheck from work into a seperate account that your husband does not have access to.  You should not be on "an allowance figured out by him" but in charge of your own money & having your check auto deposited into an acount & then be giving HIM money to help with bills etc.  You absolutely must take back some of your power here or this show will be over in what a week?  & then you'll be back to the same place.  Even though the show is just airing it's already taken place & so you should be feeling much better etc. & yet I thought your profile said you're stressed?  Please I'm like begging you to start insisting on certain things like a auto deposit to an account he does not have access to.  It's not hard to set it up & if you go into a boss or the person in charge of payroll they'll probably be able to help show you how it's done etc. if you need that kind of guidance.  Take back some of your life......."

 

 

I'm sure he's probably really PO'd I've given this direction and making all kinds of claims but the fact is you need to take back some of the power here.  No more lines of "I'm an old fashioned guy"  What he is an a abuser guy with all the power and pulling all the strings.   You are entitled to a say in your home.  You're working a full time job and haven't had the luxury of a pay check?  Come on now honey.  A direct deposit account and the honey do list is now written BY YOU! 

 

also what you need to do is get all of your important paperwork like the kids birth certificates etc. and they are to go into a safe deposit box in the bank or a safe place like a locked desk at work etc.  you need an emergency kit in case things go seriously physically dangerous and you need a quick escape.  If your husband says he's "working on himself" and he really has the intention of doing right by you and the children none of that should upset him.  It just means you're protecting yourself and the kids and a husband/father who is REALLY concerned WANTS his wife and children protected even if it's from HIM!  That came from the lips of my husband!  He wouldn't think twice about me putting money in an account even if it didn't have his name on it because I'm his wife and he *trusts me*!  If he's trust worth he'll trust you too.....   That is a real man and that is a real marriage.  Are we "perfect"?  no we're not and yes we've let each other down at times but abuse is a whole different animal.  Abuse is calculated and throught out. 

 

 

Right now he'll play the "that lady is crazy"  and "she just doesn't give a person a 2nd chance" and you being a "loving person" will start to "feel for him" and he's *counting on that*!  It's just a different tactic to get back to a place where you're in a position you can't fight back from his abuse.  It's classic.  I don't want to hurt you and I know this hurts but this will get SO much worse.  Therapy, couseling, "we're gonna fix this marriage" is all CLASSIC of an abuser!    In some of my next few post tomorrow I'll bring in some links to info for you to read what I'm saying here that is *not me saying this* and really if you go in through the message boards here there is an abuse board.   just ask what the classic patterns of abuse are and ask how many times a abused woman tries to leave.  You'll see threre's a process and an escalation to it all.   Later on when it's REAL bad people will be asking you "why did you stay"?  And you'll be hard pressed to explain why you tried to "work it out".  I understand you wanting to stay with the man you thought you married, but abusers do not introduce themselves as an abuser or a narcassist.  There's one site I believe called "you are not crazy".  http://www.youarenotcrazy.com/   the abuser for these people are SO smooth to the outside world that no one would even believe it.  ALL narcassists!  Though not all narcassists are "smooth enough" to the outside world to present themselves this way.  I mean some times they're foolish enough to think they can go on TV and trick a therapist into allowing them to ridicule their wife on national TV about their weight.  When they're blind sided by the professional and they've "got their number" they don't know what to do.  But they get *smarter* as they go along as to how to manipulate and make it look like YOU are the one who's "not trying".  

 

Right now it'll be me and anyone else who "exposes" that will be "crazy" or "they don't know us" or "she doesn't sound like she gives anyone a chance" or "she must be a womens liber" or "she's just a bitter person" or if it's a guy saying it he'll be "a girlie man" or a "momma's boy" etc.  Anyone who calls it not in his direction will be "odd" or "out there" in some way.  It's classic...... 

 

Money you need money set aside in case you need it, and you need the vital paperwork for yourself and your kids, birth certificates and passports.  (this way he can't take off with them either) and you need a change of clothes and if you or the kids are on meds you need an extra supply of them.  All those things should be together in one place for an "emergency escape" if you need it.  This is *vital* please please put together an emergency go pack....

     I think Leon's sort of cute myself.  What I would like is for him to lose a little weight to make himself feel better and then get out on the market.  Mrs. Abuser will find out how many women are looking for a cuddly teddy bear to make them happy.  I wouldn't want to sit next to her in a movie theatre, let alone be married to her.  Go Leon, go get your happiness outside of this marriage.  That's my opinion.