Topic : 08/05 Fat Abusers

I totally agree. Ricks act totally sucked. I've seen better more convincing tears on bottom barrel soap operas. I still can't believe Dr. Phil bought that junk. I became almost sick when their therapist said how well he’s been doing….. seriously!  I’ve met narcissists who were way better at A) hiding their abuse and B) convincing people that they weren’t abusive or that they had changed. Rick was SO transparent!  His wife is so beaten down I don’t think she even knows which way is up, that was such a disservice to her to go on national television and be told things are turning around hooray what a happy ending- that isn’t what’s happening. She is now more stuck then she was before because now she has hope that he’s actually better. It's like she was actually being abused more by going on the show. The real issue was not adressed, Dr. Phil treated him like he was a normal person capable of normal reasoning. It would take years of thearpy to fix his problems after the years of trying to convice him he had a real problem. Somtimes I think God works on shows like this to convice people they need help and usually thats what I see, but the outcome of RIck and Karen makes me think the devil was the one working the scenes on this one.

That's pretty sad when we're arguing the same point lol

Wow, I lost 100 pounds all by myself many years ago, and I'm told by you that I am naive about weightloss. Just because I said a person needs willpower. That is too funny. You have judged what I know about the issue without even knowing me.

I certainly know that weightloss has a lot to do with willpower. Not putting food into yourself when you know it's not healthy. Getting up and exercising. And all the mindgames one can play with oneself (or not) about how X is making me fat. PULEASE. You have to condition your mind for weightloss. If you're not ready, you will look for any excuse that works.

Was I attractive when I was fat? No, I was not. I was fat and unfit and looked it. I have lost and gained a few pounds here and there over the years but will NEVER get back to what I was back then. I didn't think  looked attractive when fat and don't find others do wither. That is a personal choice. You can't force someone to be attracted to someone they aren't attracted to.

"Penny Lane" and I think I love this name best Penny but then I'm a Beatles nut and it's funny that you switched to it because I had just thought earlier that you had used this name too at one point.  Again I'm a Beatles nut and so that's why it struck me when you'd used it and why I'd remembered.  Originally when you had used Penny Lane (or when I originally notice) I think you had a distinct pick to go with it maybe the album cover? or a street sign? Anyway I was some what taken aback when I saw your name tonight because I'd literally been thinking this earlier.  LOL

As for the "fat gene" and calorie intake/exercise thingie etc.  I think saying one needs to be "a bit more diligent in watching calories and exercising etc etc" is in some instances putting it mildly.   You know it's like someone saying "this girl was having an issue with it being genetic" and really the only way to know this is to have first hand knowledge of her.  People are just all different and I don't think we can say with any certainty unless we know them what the issue is.  for example my in laws thought my weight gain was due to me quiting smoking and lol it has nothing to do with me quiting smoking but everything to do with the medication I'm on.   You know you've got a baby there now and so your experience with child birth and another woman's experience could be just polar opposites.  When I read or hear them refer to labor *pains* as "discomfort" I laugh because it's a way of making it seem a lot less than it really is.   Now the fact is that there wouldn't be near so many women who would have another child if it was truly unbearable but whenever I hear someone say "there will be some real discomfort" I just want to slap them, because it would just be better to be honest and say "hey this is gonna hurt like hell but it isn't forever and in the end someones gonna hand you this bundle that the pain will pale in comparison to.   But see as I'm saying this to you you could be thinking "what the hell is she talking about it wasn't really *pain*".  But that's just because our threshold of pain is different. 

For me being on those meds I was literally eating 1100. calories a day walking 2 miles a day and *gaining weight* .  Prior to those meds I hadn't come close to that strict of a diet and there was no way I was exercising like that etc.  I've always had a pretty active life with a lot of stuff going on in the house and running after kids etc.  I was never a "heavy person".  Having had this experience with the meds had left me thinking that perhaps people that are "predisposed" or who have the "fat gene" may have more than just a problem leaving them to be more "diligent"  .  I know for me right now if I was "a bit more diligent in watching calories and exercising" I would indeed be gaining weight.  I have to be in the gym and working like a dog just not to gain.  As a kid I had a girlfriend who's mother was going to weight watchers for her weight problem.  Her husband was having a weight issue and really the whole family had the same problem  well so the mom is going to be having everyone eating weight watchers food.  Now this is just eons ago Penny you probably were a lil spit in your momma eye and weight watchers didn't have all the food in the super markets yet and the like (this was like the 70's) and weight watchers would  send home these recipes that my girlfriends mom would make.  Most were just God awful, but the real thing is this that the junk food had been wiped from the house and so I would be at home able to grab a hand full of cookies and she was eating celery and yet I was this lil petite rail and this girl had a real issue with weight.   we were good friends and inseparable and so we were at all the same activities cheer leading, tennis etc.  and yet she had a weight issue and I use to feel so bad because she'd try so hard to work it off and really much more than I etc.  My point is that what was easy for me for her was a *struggle* and that continued into her teen years when it's actually easier because we're getting curves etc.  it's in out 20's and when we start having babies etc. that the weight becomes a *bit of a struggle* or it creeps on us and for me that was the 5 to 10 lbs. thing for her it was a 25 to 30 lbs. thing.  :)  Now as adults were were truly living separate lives and hardly saw one another but I don't think I would have ever been comfortable saying to her that she just has to be more diligent at what she eats etc because I knew for a long time she took in the same as me and she had a weight problem and I didn't.  And then yet my sister came from the same house as me and she had the weight issue and I didn't though same house or not my sister could and at times did eat circles around me.  Her portions were always double what I ate or seemed to be.  :)

I just think there's a lot more to the issue of weight gain than any of us really know.  And just like my MIL & FIL thought they just *knew* my weight issue was my me quiting smoking and they were *wrong* we can't say for certain what the issue is for any of these people.   If I take in 1200 calories a day over the course of a year and then go about my day and I'm not gaining weight  & then next year I'm doing that exact same thing and I am gaining weight it has nothing to do with the calories going in or more of them.  I mean we can't just stop eating. 

That all said I will say my husband who has struggled with weight came from a father who'd blamed his weight issue on his mother for making him "clean his plate" and he'd get so p*ssed at me because I'd say "yea but she didn't tell you to mound on the food like that did she?  I mean it's not like you're never going to see food again or you're gonna be executed tomorrow you could just cut back on some of what's on your plate."  And frankly hubby always had a "portion issue".   The first time I dished out ice cream for us into a dish he thought I was kidding and said as much!  he started to laugh and said "umm honey is this a joke?"  and smiling I said "Is what a joke?   Is that not enough would you like more?"    And this was long before I'd discovered his father's portion issue etc.  this was truly not intentional. 

I really think that some times there's a lot more at play than just "too many calories going in".    That said I have to say I thought it was the man with the verbally abusive wife (I am so darn bad with names) anyway I thought they said he was drinking all this Mountain dew?   Holy cow I about fell over when I hear that I'd be shooting right off the walls with all that sugar.  He was taking in an awful lot and I'm surprised he wasn't already having an issue with diabetes.    I can't even remember what it was they said he was eating along with that but Dr. Phil said "if you just cut out those things from your daily intake you'd save etc. etc. etc. "  and was trying to make the point about "life changes". 

Ok sorry this is a book but I think discussions like this are good for us all because they're thought provoking and I think they add a different perspective for all of us.  It certainly is refreshing from the flaming ones often found on message boards.   

rofl you girls are cracking me up here.  

funny how things come out or come across when we're writing and there's no real "tone" to something huh? 

I hope against hope that this is genuine for you. Frankly I think the best sign for him is having turned over the finances to you.  I will add that frankly I think you need a small stash some where and that is just for safety sake.  When people think I'm "looking for him to fail" or that I'm "not able to give a 2nd chance" etc. that's not the case.  What I am is just tired of seeing this *same senario* turn so ugly that there's no way out.......     If Rick is able to "change" for real he will be the exception to the rule and if you've gone *anywhere* on the internet dealing with a narcissist you have to know that.  That is not me just being negative but rather just realistic and knowing how many women have been "tricked".   Just like here with 1 or more therapists saying "with hard work you can turn things around" or "I've never seen a harder working guy" etc there have been other women who get outside of that "help" and aren't even able to articulate how it's not right or how he's still emotionally abusing.  They know their spouse is but to try to point it out it's the wife who is looking "petty" or "silly" or "too sensitive now".   And that is why there are sites like www.youarenotcrazy.com   each time a narcissist goes to a therapist or a counselor they "learn" how to deceive even better but it's the *outside world* they'll deceive..... 

I hope yours is the exception to the case.  I just didn't want to be one to say "ok so you're working on it and you'lll be better now".  because it's doing that very thing that later will make it difficult for you to say "no he said he's working on it but it's not really right"  because others will now look at you and be saying "well he's done all that work etc.  What do you want from him?  Change takes time.... "   It will be little things you notice that you may not even be able to put into words like "a look" that you'll recognize as aggressive that others will not understand.  and you'll be told things like "you're crazy and everyone knows it".    A fist put to your face without even it becoming a *real punch* is an intimadation tactic meant to get the point across "I'm going to hurt you"!  It worked and so he didn't & STILL doesn't need to touch you to have you fearing him.  That fear has not gone away. and he knows that.  Yet others will say "well he can't take that back and it's not like he's still doing that."   but the fact is now he can say "I didn't do anything" and that fear is there!  he doesn't have to actually even put up a fist and the *fear is still there* and that fear can be used to his advantage and he knows that.  If he gets angry and makes a fist not at you but along his side and yells a vile name is that "just a name?" is that a "slip" because change doesn't happen over night or is that because you did something that made him so angry?   And see THIS is where the *old game* will start & you will be once again wondering "was it because I said this that I was pushing his buttons that made him so made  that he was losing control?"  It will *look like* and he'll present to you that he's "done all this work and he's controlling his temper and yet YOU are pushing his buttons.  Or you're NOT doing something you're suppose to.  And well even with that what a great guy that his fist is only at his side or that he didn't make one at all but just used a vile name.  Narcissism isn't a "lack of control" where some times a "oopsie slip" is gonna happen.    narcissism is a need to control someone else and to put them down to raise oneself up.  The oppsie slip is a *reminded to you* to keep you where you are!  And if he's looking like a great guy who's "really trying so hard" how horrible of you to nit pick now?  I mean you "can't expect change over nite."  There is a whole manipulation that goes with this that isn't even describable in one post Honey.  All that stuff about your family coming from where they do and you not having the same upbringing is to *dismiss anything they say or do and to become insulted or disgusted to the point of cutting them from your lives ie "I don't want the children influenced by them" or "they've done so much damage to you I think you should cut them from your life" or "Our marriage will never work with them underminding it all the time and they're not a a good caliber and don't want you doing better than them"  etc. etc.*  that isn't him just being *arrogant* that is him *isolating you*.   That is *an abuser isolating his victim* because with support around you that is a means of escape.   This is *not my theory* this is written over & over & over again by victims.  Q.  "where are all your friends and family?"  A. well my family didn't like him and he felt horrible about it but they made me choose between him and them and so I haven't spoken to them in years and I can't go to them now."   When a abuser starts to isolate they may acually start to either verbally abuse you or your family and friends 1 at a time to the point where your family and friends just can't stand it & they will make you decide "him or me"?  because they can't watch you verbally anialated anymore.  I've had to cut loose girlfriends and tell them "I can't watch this any more, but don't ever feel you can't call me for help if you need it,"  this way it takes the "him or me" pressure off her & leaves a door for help in the future open.  :)     Do you have any idea how many narcissists say "lets go to therapy"?  they *ALL* say this.  They are very good at convincing.  And there isn't any woman/girl that hasn't wanted to work it out that's what we're taught to do "reason" etc. 

Oh & Karen a lil info on me is that my *verbal abuser* was so long ago they hadn't come up with the title yet and really didn't even have a handle on physical abuse.  But if he was a little lighter in color & 30 yrs. old your Rick could have been my *Rick*.   I was only with my Rick a little over a year and it took *years* to undo the emotional damage & he'd done and it's things you'll never think of.  The clothes I'd pick out or attention from a man etc.  All that stuff with your make up?  LOL I shuttered when I watched him pick you apart.  And just as Dr. Phil said after my abuser was cut from my life I would in the future *pick myself apart* and luckily I had my hubby & he kept saying "Ummm noooo there's nothing wrong with that blouse and you don't put your make up on too heavy.  That's your old boyfriend talking."  :)  It was YEARS!!!!  Anyway I had to share that with you beause talk about a FLASH BACK!   And let me warn you when you say "hey I've had enough.  you clearly don't want to be with me and don't like anything about me.  I'm going to give you your freedom."  they take on the "OHMYGOD you've mamed me and I am so hurt victim thing it was the hardest thing I had ever had to do.  The difference for me and you is that I was not married to him and it was a letter to him and then sitting and chatting one night and it was over.   For you there will be child support payments and visitations etc.   he'll pull this with everyone who'll listen *including you*. 

 "If it doesn't work out with us, we both agreed to go our separate ways".  now is that for both of you meaning in say 3 years if you're feeling he's still having to suppress this "anger" or he's still letting vile names slip on occasion and you say "this is it it's not working and I want out" is that the end or does it have to not be working for him either?  I mean if it's done and over for you, but not over for him does it mean he'll go into a rage that you want out?   Or is it still the threat of him leaving with him saying that part of the issues is you?  Is he still on your weight as a problem?   He's said you're working on fixing the marriage but you weren't the problem with the marriage it was his narcissism.  Now the issue of you allowing it to start to snow ball is an issue but a different one and keep in mind that a narcissist can spin a conversation so good that they'll have *therapists* stopping to scratch a head and thinking "is he right?"  when no he isn't.   A good test or example of a narcissist spinning a conversation to make himself the victim is at the web site www.youarenotcrazy.com  if you go into the "quiz" section they have a example of a conversation/exchange between a woman with her narcissistic verbal abuser boyfriend.  I've listened several times and it's *exhausting* "If you said this I would have just said that & this was just a question" etc.  it's exhausting that they're always the victim and there's nothing you're doing correctly.  When you are feeling that there is *no correct answer* that is you being *sucked back in* and that Karen is for future reference......

 Karen, the average abused woman at the start doesn't understand what is happening.  and the "apologies" are over & over and they're excuses are a plenty.  "I'm sick, it's an illness"  etc.  you feel really bad for him and after all it was for "better or worse".  I too am an old fashioned girl and *believe in those vows* but a narcissist counts on those very things!    Anyway the point I want to make here and that I want you to stick some where in your mind in case you need it is that if this starts to turn around and he's saying "I am working on this if only you'd do more on your part" or he starts *talking* that it's not in his control but he's being "made to do the things he is because of __________(fill in the blank with ANYTHING) "  you need to follow what you really know!  If you're thinking "he really is going right back into this"  or you're thinking "he really did just trick me into staying and now there's nothing I can do."  etc. etc.   You ARE NOT ALONE!  No matter how much you've said "it's ok we're working on this and I think he's really trying"  and no matter how many have said "he really looks to be changing"  there are people who will believe you & who will understand this*.  While I and others try to explain the unlikelyhood of a narcissist/abuser changing the average woman stays in the marriage and tries to work on it.  And so do not ever feel "I was a fool" or "I should have listened" or "How do I ask for help now when I had all that in front of me".  Do not waste time on thinking "I should have" because going to people like a shelter or your family and actually *getting out* is paramount.  you can question the prior choices later.  Just know that if you're feeling "I gotta get out of here" and yet you feel you have no resources going to any womens services you will find some help.  And if you're thinking "but it's not physical abuse" it doesn't matter because the emotional abuse is very well understood now and the professionals that deal with this all the time will have a handle on what's happening and they'll be explaining to you just like I am here.  This happens *all the time*.  And that's what I want you to remember.  Do not waste time with shame and if you've been so emotionally beaten down that all you remember are my words to you here saying that "this happens all the time and the average woman stays in the marriage & realizes later she was tricked" then please hold on to those words and let them lead you OUT!  the rest of the *womens services professionals* will help you!  And Karen that young woman the other day that I had speak on the other board that is the product of an abusive father......  Keep your kids in mind ok? 

I hope that none of what I've said you ever have to give a 2nd thought to and I hope I'm completely off target.  My wish for you is to have your counseling and to work through this all and to grow old together. 

Namaste~

(Momakababe, don't you believe in giving people another chance? Hasn't anyone given you the opportunity to redeem yourself for something in your life you may have regretted? Everyone in the world deserves that chance for no one is perfect)  FEEL BAD FOR ME I'M THE VICTIM

(But like I said maybe you need to get your own advice show to tell people what to do instead of spending all your time in front of the computer trying to ruin families.) PROJECTION -YOUR THE ONE WHO IS RUINING YOUR OWN FAMILY

(Yes, I am mad about your comments but it was understandable, but please don't say I'm behaving until this blows over, for my counseler and myself am working very hard on correcting this) AGAIN I AM THE VICTIM AND YOUR HURTING ME FOR NO REASON YOU'RE MEAN

and well all the rest is more of the same... I am trying so hard to change that whole paragraph was 'I' 'I' 'I' even in your healing its all about how your going to be the hero and be the one in a million chance narcissist who stops thinking only of himself and his own needs.  You're a mud puddle pretending to be an ocean. The only purpose of a narcissist is to show other people how strong they can become after the emotional soul rape that all narcissists do to those closest to them is finally over and they move on to their next supply. They are the real life vampires.