Topic : 04/11 Women Beware!

Again, I will say there is a massive generational gap here.  I unsderstand some of ya'll have been married for quite a while are extremely happy.  Im really glad for you.  I would love to see some of you out in the dating scene right now and tell me what you think of it compared to when you were dating.  I would like to know the differences ya'll would see now compared to what you saw then.   

Flirting is just part of the courtship.  Its not the only thing thats used to get a womans attention.  I read books, watch the news and even Dr. Phil.  I stay up on current events, work out 4-5 times a week.  I play musical instuments, play sports and stay really active.  I am very ambitious, I have owned my own retail business since i was 23 years old.  Im pretty attractive but have always been really shy.  I came from a very abusive childhood and have always had an extreme lack of confidence.  If you watch enough Dr Phil you know what that can do to a persons personality.  I have seeked out advice from friends, ex's, parents, married couples and all my female friends.  I have spoken to therapists, doctors and have even joined dating sites.  

The day I joined the "community" was the day I was at the lowest point of my social and dating life.  I knew I had to change something in my life.  I was extremely embarassed that I was even reading the material when i first started out.  What joining the "community" has done has made me realize that I need to improve my self worth.  I needed to quit blaming the outside world and take a look inside myself of what I was doing wrong with my life.  If I beat myself up and say negative things about myself, people are going to think  the exact same thing.  Its not about getting into a womans pants.  I haven't slept with a woman in 2 years.  That is not my goal, never has been.  My goal is to improve myself and how I see myself.  I want to be more attractive to the world, not just women.  I know that I will eventually attract the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with. 

So let me ask the women of the board this.  As I sit here and see an advertisment for a Dr Phil book "Love Smart" and can't help but wonder why is it empowering for a woman to seek advice, read books/ magazines to help improve her love life but creepy for a man to do the same?  Should a man just naturally know how to attract a woman?  Why do you percieve that all men want is just sex?  I want to date quality women that i find physically and mentally attractive.  Those women are not going to approach me, I have to make the attempts and put forth the effort to initiate the male/female interactions.  

My appologies for my spelling Mrs. Perfect.  I'll do what I can to pay a little more attention next time. 

Well, I can say, that like Penny and a few other posters, I'm ATTRACTED to the nice guy!  I can't stand jerks, they repulse me, because why would I want to associate myself with someone who is so emotionally screwed up that he has to tear me down?  I just think flirting is a way more positive experience than that.  I thought my spouse was SO DAM CUTE and he didn't even have to insult me in the process.  Different girls are attracted to different men for various reasons, so I don't think that the method works all the time with all women.

Why do you keep referring to this massive generational gap?  Do you think that human nature has made a drastic change in the last 20 or 30 years?  While there may be additional tools people utilize in today's dating world such as the internet, I don't think that things have changed that much since some of us posting on these boards married.  People are inherently the same as they were a couple of decades ago.

Back then I looked for a nice guy.  I had definite standards back then and if I were not married and out in today's dating world, I would still look for the same kind of person.  I would kick the phonies to the curb. I would look for intelligence, integrity, honesty, kindness, sincerity, loyalty, a good sense of humor and good values and someone who would just be himself........just like I did back in the dinosaur days.

We met through a friend and it evolved from there.  Like "what are you doing later" and "can you give me a ride to karate practice"?  Then he'd call me to see how I was doing, it was so sweet!  And there was so many interests we have in common...all that combined = attraction.  No animal attraction there, it's more complicated than that.  It was just easy with him, no games, no dancing around the obvious.  We stay up too late also, sometimes it's talking....sometimes not!  LoL!

Why complicate it to death?  And then if it's so complicated before you start a relationship, I'd hate to think what it's like after!  I'd lose my mind in that whole evolutionary struggle for dominance?  There's so many bigger problems in life that pale this in comparison so what's the point in putting so much energy into something that I think is better if it just comes naturally. 

My appologies, Im not trying to be insulting. 

I do think a lot has changed.  The internet and cell phones are huge communication devices that people use more and more.  A lot women I have met primarliy use the internet and text messaging to stay in contact 80% of the time.   Dating used to be more personal.  It no longer is.  People are on the go all the time.  The average attention span has drastically shortened.

Im not going to be able to convince anyone to change their opinion.  I know what joining a community of supportive guys and girls who have had some of the same issues has done for me.  I have seen what it has done for other guys as well.  It truely is amazing to see the most introverted guy who couldn't get a date to save his life become the life of the party, the person everyone wants to be around.  He is gravity, and everyone is drawn to him.  Its not about putting up a facade.  Its about giving guys the ability to find themselves.      

Some basic foundations of PUA are:
"leave them better than you found them."
"PUA is NOT about getting women primarily, it is about improving yourself and becoming a better man."
"Honesty is always best."

OK, since the majority of women on this message board have made it abundantly clear how we feel about the men taking these classes, we DO NOT like it, find it repulsive, disrespectful, and just plain sleazy and the men refuse to listen and continue to believe that it is perfectly fine I have been forced to state the truth.

The men who have to belong to the "community" aren't getting anywhere with women because you are just plain unattractive to us. If we found you attractive in the first place your need for an ice breaker wouldn't be so important. If we thought that you were good looking we would talk to you even if you stumbled clumsily over your words, appeared to be shy, were bald, etc.. By the way, I also want to touch on the bald topic now that I've mentioned it. We don't care! Stop with the comb overs and baseball hats. Those are a real turnoff. We really don't mind if your hair is receding or if you are as bald a billiard on top as long as you've got the face to carry it off. Clothes matter to us too. I remember a truly skeevy guy that couldn't get a date to save his life. He could attend a thousand meetings, read every book ever published and it wouldn't matter. He was just plain gross. His leather jacket that squeaked when he moved didn't help any either. So stop trying to defend this method, either you have it or you don't. Save your money and hire a good plastic surgeon!