Topic : 04/11 Women Beware!

Number of Replies: 352
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Friday, April 04, 2008, 02:15:24 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Women beware: Men are on the prowl! Some guys win your heart and dupe you for thousands of dollars, while other men learn the slick techniques of pick-up artists so they can get you in the sack! Go inside a classroom where single men are being taught The Mystery Method -- a step-by-step technique on how to meet, attract and date beautiful women. The instructors say this method teaches guys to be more confident. When the students hit the bars, will The Mystery Method help them land a lady? What do the women think of their techniques? Then, meet Ross Jeffries, the self-proclaimed "Father of Seduction." He says he’s taught thousands of men to seduce women through language. Now he fears that he’s created monsters, because many of his followers are seducing woman through deception, and he says that’s exactly what The Mystery Method is all about. A heated debate ensues between Ross and The Mystery Method instructors, Nick and Scott. Is Ross’ technique actually as benign as he claims? And, Victoria says she fell in love for the first time with a guy whom who she thought was the perfect man, until he she says he ended up scamming her out of $100,000. Did Victoria miss the warning signs? How can she pick up the pieces of her broken heart and move on? Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.


User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 11, 2008, 4:59 pm PDT

04/11 Women Beware!

Quote From: hyphup

Therapy will not teach him how to date and act around women. And yes, 'Mystery Method' and other methods, are about helping people with social anxiety and bad social strategies. It's not manipulation.

Look at books like 'Love Tactics', which are for both men and women. Some tactics sound manipulative, but they are really just what often happens accidentally when people find eachother attractive.
A healthy person doesn't need to learn how to 'date' and how to 'act around women'...and actually therapy CAN teach a person that anyway...by dealing with the CAUSE of the problem.

The point is, if a person is themselves then they are themselves...there is no need to 'learn to date'...

I don't even get that....what is the purpose of dating? To meet someone and fall in love and make a family and live life together? So why START with head games?!

THIS method on the show is nothing but manipulation...period. Head games. Mind ****ing.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 11, 2008, 5:04 pm PDT

04/11 Women Beware!

Quote From: lizzyp

Who doesn't try to fix things with superficial things?  If that works for them right now, who cares?  Good for them! 

 

I agree that manipulation of another person is negative but seduction is a two person game.  One person has to initiate the seduction and the other has to succumb to it.  We can all pretend that we are always the good person and the other person is always the bad person, but I'm sorry that is not true.

 

I'm trying to make a blanket statement that things are not always as they seem.  If the issue is that they are learning how to manipulate another person, then yes, I agree that that is negative.  BUT, my point is that you have to be naive enough to let yourself be manipulated for it to work.

 

Be a stronger person and open your eyes.  Try to figure out what that person is really trying to say to you when they are running a pattern.  If you are intuitive, you can pick it up.  If you pick it up, don't react in the way that they are expecting.  If you do not make the response that they want, they will leave.  A PUA will not bundle you into the back room and rape you.  That is not what they do.  Consent is KEY.

"Who doesn't try to fix things with superficial things?  If that works for them right now, who cares?  Good for them! "

You are again, twisting what I said. I am saying it's a superficial fix, not fixing something superficial. If a person has a real problem talking to people in a social situation it's NOT a superficial problem. You are getting what I said exactly backwards.  This is a REAL problem being dealt with in a SUPERFICIAL manner. Like putting a little bandage on a gaping wound.

"I agree that manipulation of another person is negative but seduction is a two person game."

Yes, GAME. I don't believe in playing games, I think it gets people no where. I think the best way to date and make friends is to be very real, upfront and honest.


 
User Mood
Mellow

Message Emote
blank
April 11, 2008, 5:06 pm PDT

men play games?

two sides to every story .

 
User Mood
Apathetic

Message Emote
blank
April 11, 2008, 5:26 pm PDT

04/11 Women Beware!

Quote From: PennyLane78

A healthy person doesn't need to learn how to 'date' and how to 'act around women'...and actually therapy CAN teach a person that anyway...by dealing with the CAUSE of the problem.

The point is, if a person is themselves then they are themselves...there is no need to 'learn to date'...

I don't even get that....what is the purpose of dating? To meet someone and fall in love and make a family and live life together? So why START with head games?!

THIS method on the show is nothing but manipulation...period. Head games. Mind ****ing.
I guess no girls need Dr. Phil's book -- advertised to the right; either, huh?

Dealing with causes as opposed to dealing with behavior is a controversial topic in psychotherapy. But to summarize: Dealing with causes is not necessarily a superior approach to dealing with behavior.

And I would add that many psychologists will end up reinforcing bad beliefs that they themselves have, such as: women don't like sex, and: you need to have a lot of money to get a good woman to like you.

Many people, men and women, do not know what it means to be "themselves".

We're not starting with headgames. Let's talk about the tactic most discussed today. The point of knocking a girl off her pedestal (temporarily, because you lift her back up later) is complicated, but it boils down to something that happens in most interactions where both people end up finding the other attractive, which is: that both consider that other person as an equal or slightly superior to themselves. The full explanation is far more complicated. But the execution of the technique is not very complicated. The technique by itself won't make a girl jump into your bed.

Starting a family is not the only purpose of dating. The only way you can really discover yourself -- who you are -- is in relation to other people, in many different types of relationships, including the romantic kind. If you both understand that your relationship is temporary, and/or non-exclusive, there is nothing wrong with that.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
happy
April 11, 2008, 5:40 pm PDT

Separations....

Quote From: ktjktjktj

I thinks it's again necessary to untangle two different issues that have become blurred in this episode.  Issue 1:  men who con women out of money.  I think we all agree that's bad.  Issue 2: men who make an effort to attract the women they like and the men who teach them how it's done.  I don't see a problem there.

 

These potential gigolo farms are teaching men how NOT to be themselves and do the exact opposite of what they would do in the situation.  It reminded me of those Extreme Makover shows, but slightly perverted, the "overhaul your personality" edition.  And really, at some point, a girl doesn't want bull-sh** mind-rape games, because it's a waste of time and energy. 

 

Even if "pick-up line" university teaches them how to approach women, it doesn't teach them how to approach other people in non-romantic situations, which if they are painfully shy, they'll still have a problem with. And then what?  After they get the girl then how do they know how to conduct that relationship?  Does the girl respect Mr. Wonderful after she realizes he just knew some pick up conversation?  It smacks of corny.

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 11, 2008, 5:47 pm PDT

Re: davewriter

Quote From: davewriter

The only logical explanation I can offer to this abombination of a love technique is its creators, Nick and Scott, got so burned in past romances, maybe even marriages, that they created this technique as means over getting revenge, getting back what women stole from them.  I don't know what to say about this except this is so pathetic, it's not even funny.

 

What the hell is up with you two?  Do you think women are so spoiled and materialistic, that women treat men as if they're made of money?  Let me tell you that while SOME do, that doesn't count for ALL women.  Let me guess, you picked up a few golddiggers in your lives, and now you want some of that money back.  There are more subtle ways of getting it, like getting jobs.  Look at all the men out there who put their profiles on Internet dating sites looking for love, relationships and marriage.  Or do you think they're suckers?  Whatever, I'll bet they'd be embarrassed at what you're doing, and they'd rather take instructions from cartoon characters on how to pick up and date women.  All I know is I haven't gotten into the dating game, and yet I am turned off by what you have to offer.  Let me tell you right now, I want no part of it.

 

I'm just starting work on a novel, and in that novel, my protagonist is a young man who becomes a controversial radio personality.  SPOILER: He gets so burned in his marriage (his wife will cheat on him constantly throughout their whole marriage, and even give birth to a baby that he finds out is not his) that when he gets divorced, not only does he swear off women ("The only women I can trust now are those I can't legally marry!") and devote much of his time to the children that ARE his, but he also goes on an anti-female tirade, claiming that all women will treat their husbands and boyfriends the same as he was treated.  He would even agree to have "Romeo and Juliet" barred from the high school English curriculum, calling it "a stupid, overrated play."  Still, I would have to be crazy to make him come up with something like this.  Can't make my plot unrealistic, now can we?

 

I'm so glad that Ross Jefferies, the Father of Seduction, has seen the err of his ways, and I can't wait to see him rip some new ones to you.

 

"Women Beware" is right.  These are not men who value women, marriage or families (don't know about children, though,) and crap like this is the reason why marriage and families continue to be out of vogue in 2008, after all these years.  You should be ashamed of yourselves! 

davewriter, there's a story behind this.  There's a reason why Jeffries did what he did.

First of all, Jeffries and Mystery (creator of Mystery Method) are enemies.  Did you notice how he was defending his own purported method of "seduction" while downplaying the Mystery Method?  Jeffries hasn't seen the error of his ways, he was just trying to make Mystery look bad on national television. 

The truth is that while some of the men who are in the seduction community are sleazy, there are some who are genuinely trying to give men the social skillsets to attract women.  The Pick-Up Artist Juggler, for instance, doesn't focus on getting a girl into bed, but focuses on how to build rapport with her.  Most of the men who go into the seduction community are men who just keep getting burned by women.  Some of them are good-looking, intelligent, even rich in some cases, but they can't bring women into their lives because their social skillset is poorly developed

Think of it as this:  there's a light and dark side to the art of seduction.  Always has been.  Any man who knows how to make it with a woman has the power to break her heart or make her feel special.  Even the ones who never had to learn how to seduce women can exploit them.  Being a PUA just means that you've artifically learned the social skillset to be successful in dating.  I'm not talking about Ross Jeffries' bizarre hypnosis, I'm talking about the ability to sit and talk with a woman and simply knowing how to conduct yourself so that she'll be attracted to you. 
 
User Mood
Peaceful

Message Emote
blank
April 11, 2008, 6:00 pm PDT

and we wonder why the divorce rate is so high!

my name is elliott.  i was born male and will probably stay that way.  although, sometimes some other 'male' creature does something or says something that makes me NOT proud to be a man.  unfortunately that is what we hear about.  when i, or any other gentleman holds the door or gives up a bus seat or is nothing but truthful shown in the way of honor and respect... you don't hear about that.

you do hear about how to play that stupid "social game" people play.  how to win at all costs so your greed is exalted.  lie cheat steal till you get what you want.  no matter the cost, no matter the body count.  it's like so many people are doing it, like speeding on the highway, everybody is doing it... so i should too.  it is kinda fun to fib about stuff, but if you can remember back to the first time you did fib... it was because you saw your parents do it.  or maybe a friend or brother sister thing, but in the end you learned it.  as i grew up in southern california, the social hypocrisy was running rampant.  no one was real it seemed, and that was back in 1963.  (i refuse to live there today, i live in the mid-west where people on the whole seem more real, you know what i mean... they do what they say they will and take responsibility for all their actions good bad or indifferent)

i fell in love with a 30year old lady about 15-16 years ago.  she said from the beginning she was bi, that's okay because i too am experienced... but we both agreed to love and be loyal. (making the long story short)  we moved to portland and continued to push pleasure buttons pretty seriously to begin a family.  "pink means yes!"  when i wanted to celebrate the way we had for the past three month prior, all my male needs were shut off with the proclamation:  "I AM A DYKE!"  so, i spent the next year and three months waiting for her to return from the hormone hell she said she was in.  although, it worried me that the hormones came on only after the color pink was achieved because the night before we were quite active. (a complete day to day is in my book, i wish Phil could read it because of my life having a 6.5 week coma and it's effects upon my position socially mentally and spiritually.  the name of the book is:  "one-of-us"  one-of-us.com)

so, my boy turned six months old and his dad wasn't 'allowed' to even please himself... i had tried to turn to magazines... all thrown out.  she said now the whole act of me enjoying made her ill.  i was given an ultimatum, get the 'no baby snip' and we could begin to share a bed again... i was elated... there is a light at the end of this... i made an appointment.

shortly after my recovery (to make the story shorter) she moved out with our son, and i have no idea where they are.  i know, i know... if i was wealthy things would be different, but i am not, so i must trust in pure (because i cannot pay for it) human kindness.

i see my experience as being one of someone saying things in such a way,  or doing things in such a way so that they could get what they want... no matter about my body count.

i am so tired of playing the game.  i want to live in a world of honor and respect.

or is that what heaven is for? (rhetorical)



 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 11, 2008, 6:19 pm PDT

04/11 Women Beware!

Quote From: hyphup

I guess no girls need Dr. Phil's book -- advertised to the right; either, huh?

Dealing with causes as opposed to dealing with behavior is a controversial topic in psychotherapy. But to summarize: Dealing with causes is not necessarily a superior approach to dealing with behavior.

And I would add that many psychologists will end up reinforcing bad beliefs that they themselves have, such as: women don't like sex, and: you need to have a lot of money to get a good woman to like you.

Many people, men and women, do not know what it means to be "themselves".

We're not starting with headgames. Let's talk about the tactic most discussed today. The point of knocking a girl off her pedestal (temporarily, because you lift her back up later) is complicated, but it boils down to something that happens in most interactions where both people end up finding the other attractive, which is: that both consider that other person as an equal or slightly superior to themselves. The full explanation is far more complicated. But the execution of the technique is not very complicated. The technique by itself won't make a girl jump into your bed.

Starting a family is not the only purpose of dating. The only way you can really discover yourself -- who you are -- is in relation to other people, in many different types of relationships, including the romantic kind. If you both understand that your relationship is temporary, and/or non-exclusive, there is nothing wrong with that.
" I guess no girls need Dr. Phil's book -- advertised to the right; either, huh?"

If it's a book on how to play mind games with men..no, they don't.

"Dealing with causes as opposed to dealing with behavior is a controversial topic in psychotherapy. "

This is doing NEITHER. This is manipulating OTHER people...and doing NOTHING real with yourself.

"And I would add that many psychologists will end up reinforcing bad beliefs that they themselves have, such as: women don't like sex, and: you need to have a lot of money to get a good woman to like you."

"Many"? Where are you getting this from? Are there by psychologists? I am sure there are. I don't get your point other than to try to change the topic of real psychological help vs. just playing games with the psychology of others.

" Many people, men and women, do not know what it means to be "themselves". "

That's a damn shame. However, playing mind games with people doesn't solve anything...it might give a short lived shallow boost...but it doesn't do anything but help two people live in a fantasy land of emotional paint-ball.

"The only way you can really discover yourself -- who you are -- is in relation to other people, in many different types of relationships, including the romantic kind"

BTW, that is NOT the only way you can discover yourself...that is hands down the silliest thing said today.

Yeah...romance, not fauxmance. LOL Not the little games where another person is merely a target in which you use to make yourself feel a certain way. You can learn from yourself if you allow yourself to go to a DEEPER level with another human being...what that has to do with little games I have no idea...little games are just that. Piddly nothing.

"If you both understand that your relationship is temporary, and/or non-exclusive, there is nothing wrong with that."

And that is fine...however it isn't a meaningful or deep thing, it's shallow.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 11, 2008, 6:23 pm PDT

04/11 Women Beware!

Quote From: gwarrior6

 

These potential gigolo farms are teaching men how NOT to be themselves and do the exact opposite of what they would do in the situation.  It reminded me of those Extreme Makover shows, but slightly perverted, the "overhaul your personality" edition.  And really, at some point, a girl doesn't want bull-sh** mind-rape games, because it's a waste of time and energy. 

 

Even if "pick-up line" university teaches them how to approach women, it doesn't teach them how to approach other people in non-romantic situations, which if they are painfully shy, they'll still have a problem with. And then what?  After they get the girl then how do they know how to conduct that relationship?  Does the girl respect Mr. Wonderful after she realizes he just knew some pick up conversation?  It smacks of corny.

Perfectly said.  If someone is painfully shy they can deal with that, the reasons why they are that way, tools to not be that way and then they can use those tools in ALL situations, romantic, family, business, friendships....rather than learning tricks...tricks that don't deal with ANYONE as individuals.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 11, 2008, 6:29 pm PDT

Girl Power

When I first started watching this episode, I was thinking..there is nothing wrong with coaching men on how to talk to women. Look women. Aren't we the ones who pay TONS of money for magazines with very little articles and mostly advertisements with the hope that maybe one of the six articles we just slapped down our children's week worth of school lunch allowance for will get us some sort of confidence to deal with the men we ABSOLUTELY WILL ALWAYS encounter? I mean, really, people, lets -- to coin a phrase -- Get Real (thank you, Dr. Phil).

Why the victim mentality from women? One audience member stated, in a meek and mousey voice, "This scares me".... okay, lady - what, that men may try to manipulate you? HELLOOOOO? What do we expect when we wear our low cut blouses and proceed to get hammered - shot after shot - waiting for that cute guy across the bar to come talk to us? Think about it girls, when do they actually approach you? You have more power than you realize, and we need to take back our power. Stop with the victim mentality. We can ABSOLUTELY say no. We ABSOLUTELY have the power to sense when things are not quite right. C'mon.... When was the last time that your sense that something "may not be quite right" was wrong? Chances are, a long time ago...

We are all human. I say more power to the person who thinks outside the box and thinks of another way to approach / engage in conversation with another. This just happens to be men approaching women.

I recently went to a communication class that had some different techniques on how to communicate in the business world with diplomacy and professionalism. There were many, many ways to approach people and provide them with an opportunity to come to the same conclusion as you - the power of persuasion - is that manipulation? Many would argue it is. Don't we, then, manipulate with just about everyone we deal with every day? I mean, I don't always want to grin my biggest grin and use my 'pass the butter' voice to my boss every day - especially when he has done something that was obviously meant to hurt me. But, I do - Why? Because I know that you catch more bees with honey, that is why. Manipulation? Maybe. I, personally, call it survival.

Lets get our lives back chickies, let's not let 'the man' bring us down. Regain your power, girls. You will be better women for it.
 

First | Prev | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | Next | Last