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Topic : 04/23 The Lost Boys and the Children of the Compound

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Created on : Friday, April 18, 2008, 03:23:45 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil continues to examine the controversial Eldorado, Texas raid where 416 children were removed from an extreme religious sect known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Hear from Eldorado Mayor John Nikolauk, who has presided over the town for 20 years. What are his greatest fears now? Then, Dr. Phil sits down with Franklin and Deloy, two members of the Lost Boys -- young men who leave the polygamous community when they reach the age of puberty. Franklin and Deloy say they had no education past the sixth grade and need help dealing with repressed emotions, especially in the wake of the Eldorado raid. How can they move on with their lives? And, the fate of the 416 children removed from the compound now rests in the hands of lawmakers. Dr. Phil speaks with Gib Walton, President of the Texas state bar and Harper Estes, President Elect of the Texas State Bar to discuss the outcome of the hearings and to sort out custody issues. Plus, find out what you can do to help these children ripped from the only lifestyle they have ever known. Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

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May 1, 2008, 6:33 am CDT

04/23 The Lost Boys and the Children of the Compound

Quote From: friendlygal

Thank you for your opinions. I still stand by the fact that the FLDS are not a part of the LDS church in any way. But I also wanted to add that even if we went to help them they wouldn't except help, because they look at the outside world as evil, us included because we do not share their views. It's so sad! It's almost as though no one can reach them except that looney toon Warren Jeffs!

Pres.Hebert J. Grant of the LDS was the last to extend  a hand to the FLDS. and the FLDS bit it.

I do understand that it has took the lds a long time to distance themself from the flds, and fear being lumped in with them again, but time have changed, i'm not sayig everyone has changed, but most.

 

In my opinion, if the leaders of the lds did open their arms to their lost sheep, to show them the way to the righteous side of the Mormon church, it would show the world the difference in the two sects, and show the lds in a different light.

 

But thats just my opinion, and I guess it would be hard to trust that it would end like that, but in the end churches are to do what christ like, and be above it all.

 

remember I'm not saying you have to see it my way, just talking here.

 
May 1, 2008, 8:03 am CDT

How do you know?

Quote From: friendlygal

Thank you for your opinions. I still stand by the fact that the FLDS are not a part of the LDS church in any way. But I also wanted to add that even if we went to help them they wouldn't except help, because they look at the outside world as evil, us included because we do not share their views. It's so sad! It's almost as though no one can reach them except that looney toon Warren Jeffs!

I understand, and I won't ask you to debate that fact that FLDS are not a part of LDS, even though I don't agree on that (see kennyllc comments). 

My question is, how do you know that the FLDS women, children,  and the lost boys wouldn't accept help from the LDS leaders with some prompting?  As getrealtime has said, it has been many years since a hand was extended to the FLDS, but it wasn't  to rescue the abused.  If the LDS truly do follow Jesus' teachings, wouldn't they turn the other cheek and try again?  Just a thought, but would it be difficult for you to open that discussion within your ward?  How do you think it would be recieved?

 
May 1, 2008, 8:13 am CDT

Yes, but

Quote From: kennyllc

LDS apologists come here and talk about those people like they are the plague, while their very heritage is absolutely  the same. The reverence toward these prophets and saints is precisely the same also.

Not only that, just because they live in a compound in Texas, it doesn't nor has it ever confined child-molestation through polygamy to El Dorado Texas. It has been proven through references on this board that polygamous child-molestation has been sanctioned by the state of Utah as late as 1997, while I also don't trust that the LDS church truly excommunicates all the adherents of such a lifestyle.

The LDS zealots on the net have been trying fervently to scapegoate polygamy ever since the appearance of the FLDS in the public eye. It is a disinformation campaign at best. 

So far as leaving to each his own, well, we could put a great big HIS in the middle of that sentence, because these children they marry in order to HAVE THEIR WAY of polygamy are coerced by them and their parents of Mormon heritage.

 

Polygamy was once called "the most holy doctrine" by Brigham Young who is still revered as a great prophet and church leader of the past.

kenny, I agree whole heartedly with your posts.  I feel you are dynamic and passionate with what seems like first hand knowledge of the nuances of the LDS.  (I don't know if "nuance" is the right word, but whatever.)  I am in So. Utah right now, Big Water to be exact. ( about 100 miles East of Colorado City) I have some time on my hands and plan to donate my time to helping with the rescue that is still going on out here.  Are you in an area where you might be able to put your passion to work in any way? 
 
May 1, 2008, 8:39 am CDT

04/23 The Lost Boys and the Children of the Compound

Quote From: getrealtime

Pres.Hebert J. Grant of the LDS was the last to extend  a hand to the FLDS. and the FLDS bit it.

I do understand that it has took the lds a long time to distance themself from the flds, and fear being lumped in with them again, but time have changed, i'm not sayig everyone has changed, but most.

 

In my opinion, if the leaders of the lds did open their arms to their lost sheep, to show them the way to the righteous side of the Mormon church, it would show the world the difference in the two sects, and show the lds in a different light.

 

But thats just my opinion, and I guess it would be hard to trust that it would end like that, but in the end churches are to do what christ like, and be above it all.

 

remember I'm not saying you have to see it my way, just talking here.

I totally understand your views and respect them too. If the FLDS would ban the practice of polygamy our church would be so thrilled to have them join our church. I hope one day that happens! :)
 
May 1, 2008, 8:54 am CDT

04/23 The Lost Boys and the Children of the Compound

Quote From: kennyllc

LDS apologists come here and talk about those people like they are the plague, while their very heritage is absolutely  the same. The reverence toward these prophets and saints is precisely the same also.

Not only that, just because they live in a compound in Texas, it doesn't nor has it ever confined child-molestation through polygamy to El Dorado Texas. It has been proven through references on this board that polygamous child-molestation has been sanctioned by the state of Utah as late as 1997, while I also don't trust that the LDS church truly excommunicates all the adherents of such a lifestyle.

The LDS zealots on the net have been trying fervently to scapegoate polygamy ever since the appearance of the FLDS in the public eye. It is a disinformation campaign at best. 

So far as leaving to each his own, well, we could put a great big HIS in the middle of that sentence, because these children they marry in order to HAVE THEIR WAY of polygamy are coerced by them and their parents of Mormon heritage.

 

Polygamy was once called "the most holy doctrine" by Brigham Young who is still revered as a great prophet and church leader of the past.

Unfortunetly children are molested and abused every day. It happens in the LDS no more than it happens in any average family anytime anywhere. It's a problem world wide, and it is so devestating. All I can tell you is that the LDS leaders are completely intolerant of such acts. That doesn't mean you have to believe me, you have a right to your opinion, but we as a church are reminded oft of the scripture in Luke that says "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."  
 
May 1, 2008, 9:47 am CDT

04/23 The Lost Boys and the Children of the Compound

Quote From: aurapurple

I understand, and I won't ask you to debate that fact that FLDS are not a part of LDS, even though I don't agree on that (see kennyllc comments). 

My question is, how do you know that the FLDS women, children,  and the lost boys wouldn't accept help from the LDS leaders with some prompting?  As getrealtime has said, it has been many years since a hand was extended to the FLDS, but it wasn't  to rescue the abused.  If the LDS truly do follow Jesus' teachings, wouldn't they turn the other cheek and try again?  Just a thought, but would it be difficult for you to open that discussion within your ward?  How do you think it would be recieved?

Polygamy was practiced in our religion so long ago, that even though it is a part of our past beliefs it was only practiced among a small percentage of the church. The FLDS doesn't consider themselves LDS anymore then we consider ourselves FLDS. We could reach out to them, but it's a very comlex situation because reaching out to them would mean that they would have to change their practices to be LDS. In our modern day the FLDS and LDS do not share many of the same beliefs. Our church has open arms to anyone who wants to come to our church, but we do not put pressure on people to view things different. They have to WANT to change. We believe in the 13 articles of faith and one of those states that we allow people to worship how, where or what they may. There are many religions who are intolerent of us, but we very much hold respect for anyone who worships god in whatever religion they choose. So in other words our church would have open  arms to them, but we would never want to give them the idea that we look down on them, and going to them and asking them to change their ways and come to our church would in our minds be offesive to them, and we would not ever want to do that. I appreciate your suggestion though. It's such a complex situation really. 

 
May 1, 2008, 10:25 am CDT

04/23 The Lost Boys and the Children of the Compound

Quote From: friendlygal

I totally understand your views and respect them too. If the FLDS would ban the practice of polygamy our church would be so thrilled to have them join our church. I hope one day that happens! :)

I hope so too, for the women and children it would be a way better life, I think they could get use to pretty quick,

 

I just don't think it will happen, until are goverment, takes control of the education these children learn from.  It would give them a bigger picture to look at, then what they see and hear now.

 

 

 
May 1, 2008, 10:35 am CDT

well then

Quote From: friendlygal

Polygamy was practiced in our religion so long ago, that even though it is a part of our past beliefs it was only practiced among a small percentage of the church. The FLDS doesn't consider themselves LDS anymore then we consider ourselves FLDS. We could reach out to them, but it's a very comlex situation because reaching out to them would mean that they would have to change their practices to be LDS. In our modern day the FLDS and LDS do not share many of the same beliefs. Our church has open arms to anyone who wants to come to our church, but we do not put pressure on people to view things different. They have to WANT to change. We believe in the 13 articles of faith and one of those states that we allow people to worship how, where or what they may. There are many religions who are intolerent of us, but we very much hold respect for anyone who worships god in whatever religion they choose. So in other words our church would have open  arms to them, but we would never want to give them the idea that we look down on them, and going to them and asking them to change their ways and come to our church would in our minds be offesive to them, and we would not ever want to do that. I appreciate your suggestion though. It's such a complex situation really. 

OK, got that.  You still want to debate the LDS/FLDS issue... I'll bite - a bit.  I lived in So Utah for 4 years, and the mission was to get us converted!  Our kids were treated like crap because they wern't Mormon.  I could go on and on, but I won't.  I have LIVED this, and this articles of faith, and allowing people to worship as they want is a bunch of malarkey in this So. Utah community. (St. George)  I'm not saying ALL LDS are that way, but So Utah is a different world, aboviously!  Colorado City is only 100 miles away.  That's it for my debate.  Still, my question to you - would  your ward receive a suggestion from you that they openly attempt to help the FLDS abused? How do you KNOW it would be offensive to them?  I am not saying your ward  needs to convert them, just help them. 
 
May 1, 2008, 10:46 am CDT

04/23 The Lost Boys and the Children of the Compound

Quote From: friendlygal

Polygamy was practiced in our religion so long ago, that even though it is a part of our past beliefs it was only practiced among a small percentage of the church. The FLDS doesn't consider themselves LDS anymore then we consider ourselves FLDS. We could reach out to them, but it's a very comlex situation because reaching out to them would mean that they would have to change their practices to be LDS. In our modern day the FLDS and LDS do not share many of the same beliefs. Our church has open arms to anyone who wants to come to our church, but we do not put pressure on people to view things different. They have to WANT to change. We believe in the 13 articles of faith and one of those states that we allow people to worship how, where or what they may. There are many religions who are intolerent of us, but we very much hold respect for anyone who worships god in whatever religion they choose. So in other words our church would have open  arms to them, but we would never want to give them the idea that we look down on them, and going to them and asking them to change their ways and come to our church would in our minds be offesive to them, and we would not ever want to do that. I appreciate your suggestion though. It's such a complex situation really. 

I don't think any different about your religion then I think of any other religion, they all have the hand of man in it,  and man is not perfect, 

 

I was asked one time, why do you believe in God,  I just do!! I feel it, I don't know why, I just do.

faith is like that. do I believe in one church, No. I don't think God is up there making teams to pit eachother against on a sunday night. and is rooting for one team. I think we will all be judged  one by one, and do we believe. no church will be seen as a hole. but I could be wrong.

 
May 1, 2008, 2:24 pm CDT

04/23 The Lost Boys and the Children of the Compound

Quote From: getrealtime

I don't think any different about your religion then I think of any other religion, they all have the hand of man in it,  and man is not perfect, 

 

I was asked one time, why do you believe in God,  I just do!! I feel it, I don't know why, I just do.

faith is like that. do I believe in one church, No. I don't think God is up there making teams to pit eachother against on a sunday night. and is rooting for one team. I think we will all be judged  one by one, and do we believe. no church will be seen as a hole. but I could be wrong.

I think it's so wondeful that you believe in God. And I don't look down on you in the least for not choosing to be a part of an organized religion. :)
 
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