Message Boards

Topic : 07/01 A Secret Inside: Extreme Hoarding

Number of Replies: 343
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Friday, April 25, 2008, 02:58:59 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/28/08) Imagine being forced to dwell in a space that is so cluttered with junk, food and trash, you can barely walk. Nancy and her boyfriend, Bob, live this nightmare every day. In their two homes, flies and plastic containers fill the kitchen, moldy food is stuffed in four refrigerators, and boxes and plastic bags litter the house. The two youngest children sleep on the same couch in the living room, because one's bedroom is cluttered, and the other child doesn't even have a bedroom! Nancy, a former nurse, admits to being an extreme hoarder, but how did she and Bob, a former corporate attorney, allow their lives to degenerate to this chaotic clutter? Their home is trashed, and they're in debt $100,000. Could other issues be contributing to the chaos in the house as well? Hear from the three children, 16, 11 and 9, who are trapped in this mess. Are Nancy and Bob finally ready to rescue their family from the rubble before the kids' lives are ruined forever? Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

User Mood
Depressed

Message Emote
blank
April 28, 2008, 6:26 pm PDT

Hoarding

  Well let me tell you, my best friend has been an EXTREME hoarder for years!  I have cleaned her house countless times and helped look after her 6 childern.  I quit after the last time; child care workers had been called by one of the mothers of her kids friend.  The reason they were alerted to this situation was that a dog they had passed away and the body was lying in just outside the front door (she had died over 4 weeks earlier, and no one did anything they just stepped over the rotting carcas).  I received a call from one of the older childern, begging me to help her, as she was at school and could not get home.  She was hysterical!! worried that her mom would be in trouble.  So I drove over there and parked my vehicle in the long driveway so that no one could enter.  I then walked up to the house (I had no been there for over 2 years).  Horror was the only word, I called my Sister and asked panicked what should I do, and her answer was to lock the door.  My reply to this was; I can't it is just barely hanging and the garbage and dead dog were in the way. I did not allow the Child Protection people in, stating that the owners were not home, as they were not at the time.

 

My sister, myself, and other people came and cleaned up the place, as good as you could, and the workers came back and gave an OK.  I do reget not letting them in the day they first came, because maybe my friend would have gotten some help.  I have never been back, this was over 2 years ago.  After that day I made my mind up that I was  just bandaiding her problem, a real friend would have let her kids been taken away and her to receive help, whether see was willing or not.

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 28, 2008, 6:40 pm PDT

Now that there is awareness - are you a good Samaritan?

If you aren't with you must be against. Where are the Samaritans who pause to check on the hurt and instead of just walking by, actually feel compelled to do something is better than nothing.

 

I can do for others what I can't do for myself.  I have some of the same afflictions depicted in this program but I find it easier to help others who have this same trait. Why?  If you don't have an attachment to each and every item you are able to make important decisions about what to do with them. When in a financial crisis you start to find more than one use for EVERYTHING thereby making decisions to get rid of something or keep it and whether to store it with like items... here or there?

Example: Empty pill bottles have many uses. You can keep bobbie pins in them (bathroom), sort nails or screws (hardware), assorted buttons (sewing kit) ... where you would probably toss them... right?

Why should I go buy something to handle these situations when I could get more excited over spending that money on a good sale item and boost my self esteem and feel pride in my ability to stretch that dollar. The problem arises as soon as I get home and realize I already have one but no space to put it so I just sit it down on a vertical surface and say even though I have one it is always good to have a spare as opposed to returning it . Why? Inflation. When this one breaks I'll have a spare and will have saved money by keeping it.

 When I overhear someone say 'my such and such broke' - and I can speak up and say 'don't buy another one just yet I think I have one for you' and I can be a hero and they can say maybe it's not so bad keeping all that stuff. Since this happens quite often among family members next time I see something 50%-75% off I think that having three might not be such a bad idea to get it 'just in case'. Only when you bring it home you don't remember where you put away the other so 'like' things never get together and anytime you have to pull out stuff looking for other stuff things do get messier and you think now it might be easier to leave it out since I DO plan to (sooner or later) rearrange everything and get all of the things organized. After all if it isn't hidden away I can see where things are and find them easier since their location is in my short term memory and the longer they stay out eventually they will be part of my long term memory. This is where some of us say in spite of the mess we know where thing are... that is until we start (and have a hard time finishing) moving things around to get organized.

 

I will say that I don't have cold or frozen food spoilage like depicted on this episode but I do over stock canned foods so I can share that with family when I go visit since I don't have much of a social existance other than family because embarrasment about the condition is real and is accompanied with real pain.

 

I have personally had five different 'housekeepers' who are professionals come in hopes they would help me only to have them give up on the hard work (and their 'payoff' was more than a pat on the back). So don't  JUST be critical. Be helpful. Check out if there is anyplace in your area where you can be part of the solution not make our problem larger.  Knowing, from my point of view, that you will have more of an ability to have people admit a problem if you take a 'do no harm' approach by removing the shame of hoarding.

 

I probably jumped around in my post but I will stop here and leave the rest to the professionals as they attempt to understand WHY and HOW to HELP US. I will mention there are books on the subject to help you see through the eyes of the afflicted. Buried in Treasure is just one of them.

 

Sincerely,

From Another Side

 

P.S. Dr. Phil, thanks for allowing a place for us to make comments on your shows, it would be helpful if you can post other books that can help us and others with understanding of this condition, as not all of us can afford professional sessions and need to have the most updated reading material not something that has been sitting on a library shelf for years and is outdated.

 

 

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 28, 2008, 7:00 pm PDT

Severe hoarding

My mother-in-law Reta is the worst type of hoarder collector.   Her house has been piled up with filth and used goods' purchases and dogs for most of her adult life.   The house's stench can be smelled a long way down the road.    She has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on storage rooms and purchases.   She always eats out or has food brought in.   She once had a birthday cake that she piled in a heap on the floor; maggots ran through it.    As she sat and slept in a reclining chair she dropped her food containers, her dirty clothing, newspapers, etc, where she sat, without getting up.   This mingled with general filth of dog hair, dog urine, and odds and ends she had purchased.   I helped clean up this house once.   Every couple of years, one of her sons cleaned the house (it took almost exactly 2 years for her to pile up a two story house to the rafters).   She was like this since her 20s.    In her last years, she even began saving her own fecal matter.

 

The most amazing thing I noted during the cleanup was this:  nothing had more value than another to Reta.   Her multi-carat diamond ring and gold coins were worth no more to her than molded leftover Chinese food or maggot-filled birthday cake.  

 

Reta always bought books, collected other people's newspapers, magazines, loose papers.    If someone popped a balloon she would stare at the broken end of the balloon obsessively until she could stuff it in her bag she always carried.    She would go to a buffet lunch and pour entire bins of sausages, etc into that bag.     I have tested her on occasion (to understand her thought processes a little better) by telling her I was going to keep the broken balloon.   As a result, she did not interact with anyone all evening: she just sat and stared at the balloon and tried to steal it away.    She complained obsessively for years to my husband (her son) that I wouldn't let her have the piece of balloon.  I believe she concentrates on hoarding every moment of her life and is domineering to her adult children, or anyone else who allows her to be.  She is sharp-tongued, crude, and very manipulative and intelligent to get her way.  

 

I believe hoarders this severe are complete sociopaths.  They will do anything they can to get what they want and manipulate their children, abuse them to control them, whatever is necessary to make them assist her or not clean.   My mother-in-law is cruel to waitresses, people on the plane, people in stores, and does not seem to care about the feelings of others.  My husband tips waitresses at Dennys $20 to keep them happy because she disrupts, complains about burned food so they bring her more and then keeps the "burned" food too.   When she leaves a restaurant or a dentist's office, she cleans out the office or area, stealing magazines that aren't hers, etc.    Only one of her four children has retained spouses; she has driven off all the rest because she doesn't want significant others to inhibit her excursions to shop or package her stuff in boxes.     A typical box could have used clothing, molded food, rat droppings, dirty used clothing, urine soaked newspapers.  

 

She always talks about recycling, but never recycles!

 

She attended lectures and read newspapers and books and could appear quite intelligent.   It didn't take long to realize the discussions were one-way.    Reta collects facts like she collects junk or spoiled food.   I believe that fact collecting is a symptom of the severe hoarder.   She marked passages in books, put in post-its, wrote little notes incessantly.

 

I have researched medical treatments for this type of person.  Until recently, nothing existed.   Apparently, Zoloft has some effect on some.    Therapy doesn't help; the inviduals are completely mentally ill.    I read one report that showed there was no brain activity in parts of the cerebral cortex in these individuals, and that schizophrenics and hoarders have in common the same areas of unusual brain activity in the hypothalamus and two other areas of the brain.      This appears to be a systemic defect of the brain and the chemical mediators in the brain (ex dopamine) that mediate pleasure.     

 

 

This is one of the worst forms of mental illness and one of the most disruptive for families of these sick people.    Children should be removed from such individuals.

 

 

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 28, 2008, 7:03 pm PDT

04/28 A Secret Inside: Extreme Hoarding

 I honestly hope she took the help offered her, and get back to being herself.
I do hope though that some type of Child Welfare Office (well as a professional the Doc would have no choice but to call ), was involved, no I don't think she was evil or lazy, however that house was a definite HEALTH ISSUE for those children.
Also I hope the Humane Society removed those animals, imagine, living in that in your own filth, nope the animals don't deserve that either.
But I do hope she took the help, this isn't just "Being Lazy " being lazy is leaving the dishes in the sink while you watch TV or play on the computer, this is a real mental health issue, and has to be dealt with as such.
 

Message Emote
blank
April 28, 2008, 7:04 pm PDT

quote

Quote From: nasale

You are probably the most informed person on here today. I tried to post earlier and apparently, my message was too 'strong' and it wasn't posted. You DO understand what's going on but sadly, your message will fall on deaf ears.Nobody is interested in the facts-most would rather talk about what they didn't get. I have seldom seen so many nasty hateful posts on a subject they know NOTHING about. This is truly pathetic,.
Don't think people realize how sick this woman is.  I think she is deeply depressed.  I know she didn't ask for help because I am sure she was too embarrassed.   I know this didn't happen over night and I am sure she is truely begging for help but has been afraid to ask.  I am just thankful for her friend to seek help for her and especially the children.  I think this is more of a problem then most people realize but this one is just an extreme case of hoarding.  I am thankful she and her family are getting the help she needs and it seems Dr Phil is doing the right thing.  I hope he has a follow up to see if she did gets the help she needs.
 
User Mood
Mellow

Message Emote
frustrated
April 28, 2008, 7:16 pm PDT

Where's the Father

Through out this whole ordeal for the children where is their FATHER?????  Mom said they were divorced but did he fall of the face of the earth??  What about other family members??  I can't believe no one could take these children out of that cess pool.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 28, 2008, 7:18 pm PDT

what a story!

Quote From: msvicki90

My sister has been a hoarder from a very early age.  We shared a room as kids and her side of the room was always chaos.  We are, and have always been, polar opposites in that respect.  I find it hard to breathe when there's clutter and she finds it comforting.

 When she married her hoarding didn't stop.  Until just recently, they lived in a single wide trailer.  It was so packed that there were 'goat' trails in it to get through from one room to another.  She had anmials, too, and the smell was horrendous!  Once, she got very angry at a repair man who told her that her home was a health hazard. 

Our parents died within two yearsof each other and she inherited the house we grew up in.  It is substantially larger than her trailer,and has a basement.  She's 56 now, and I'm 49.  We live over 2000 miles apart, but I know she still hoards.  While they've been moving their things into the house, her husband has suggested it would be a perfect time to go through stuff and get rid of things. She balks and says that if she threw stuff out he would no doubt come to find out HE needed it and get mad a her. 

She takes no responsibility for her actions and doesn't see a problem at  all.

Our parents were always worried about her hoarding, too.  But she is very defensive about it and they would never bring it up to her.  Same goes for me.  I would so like to know why she hoards.  We had some lean times as kids, but we never had to go without.  Why does she do it?

 That is crazy...your poor sister, she is in such denial.  I find that repair man you mentioned so brave! Good for him.

   It is really hard to have that worry on you, i wish you and your sis the best and hope she can get the help she needs.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 28, 2008, 7:34 pm PDT

04/28 A Secret Inside: Extreme Hoarding

Quote From: bgentry

Don't think people realize how sick this woman is.  I think she is deeply depressed.  I know she didn't ask for help because I am sure she was too embarrassed.   I know this didn't happen over night and I am sure she is truely begging for help but has been afraid to ask.  I am just thankful for her friend to seek help for her and especially the children.  I think this is more of a problem then most people realize but this one is just an extreme case of hoarding.  I am thankful she and her family are getting the help she needs and it seems Dr Phil is doing the right thing.  I hope he has a follow up to see if she did gets the help she needs.
you know what, what about the embarrassment her children feel? what do they feel when a school friend wants to come over to see them? what about the embarrassment they feel when a child's friend asks to come over and spend the night? what did these children have to tell thear friends? thats one hell of a thing to put ANY child through as such young ages, i see most people bitching at us who just cant get our hearts in what they think in the right place about her, well hell know what? i cant see past all the suffering those children have already suffered!! sick or not, GOD GAVE THAT WOMAN A GOOD MIND A HEALTHY BODY AND THE ABILITY TO HAVE CHILDREN, AND THE ABILITY TO C-L-E-A-N HOUSE, WHAT I SAW HER FORCING THOSE CHILDREN TO LIVE IN WAS SINFUL. I'M LIKE THIS IF YOU CAN GET IN A CAR AFTER DRINKING WITH THE CHILDREN ON-BOARD WELL THAT BLOWS ALL MY PITY OUT THE DOOR,SORRY I JUST CANT FIND KIND WORDS ABOUT THAT, JUST TODAY I SAW ON THE NEWS A 19YR OLD GIRL MY SON WENT TO SCHOOL WITH WAS KILLED ON I-475 IN A CAR CRASH, AND YES ALCOHOL MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED THE NEWS TEAM ON SIGHT SHOWED A MILLER LIGHT CAN IN BETTER SHAPE THAN THE CAR THE CHILD WAS IN, I'M SORRY I PITY DRUGS AND ALCOHOL NOT,WHEN CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED!!! SICK OR NOT,  NO EXCUSE TO MAKE CHILDREN SUFFER , SICKNESS OR NO SICKNESS, WHEN I SEE PEOPLE LIVING IN MORE FILTH THAN ANIMALS WELL LETS JUST SAY IT SICKENS ME TO NO END, YOU CAN CLEAN HOUSE IS ALL THAT TRASH MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR CHILDREN I ASK MY SELF, WELL IT SURE AS HELL LOOKED LIKE TRASH IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN HER CHILDREN ARE TO HER, DAMN RIGHT IT PISSES ME OFF TO SEE PEOPLE LIVING IN FILTH LIKE THIS,
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 28, 2008, 8:26 pm PDT

hoarding

This woman should not even have her kids.  They should be removed from her care.  They could get food poisoning at anytime and they don't even have a place to sleep!  Child neglect for sure!!!
 
User Mood
Mellow

Message Emote
blank
April 28, 2008, 8:39 pm PDT

04/28 A Secret Inside: Extreme Hoarding

Quote From: lindacheryl

My mother-in-law Reta is the worst type of hoarder collector.   Her house has been piled up with filth and used goods' purchases and dogs for most of her adult life.   The house's stench can be smelled a long way down the road.    She has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on storage rooms and purchases.   She always eats out or has food brought in.   She once had a birthday cake that she piled in a heap on the floor; maggots ran through it.    As she sat and slept in a reclining chair she dropped her food containers, her dirty clothing, newspapers, etc, where she sat, without getting up.   This mingled with general filth of dog hair, dog urine, and odds and ends she had purchased.   I helped clean up this house once.   Every couple of years, one of her sons cleaned the house (it took almost exactly 2 years for her to pile up a two story house to the rafters).   She was like this since her 20s.    In her last years, she even began saving her own fecal matter.

 

The most amazing thing I noted during the cleanup was this:  nothing had more value than another to Reta.   Her multi-carat diamond ring and gold coins were worth no more to her than molded leftover Chinese food or maggot-filled birthday cake.  

 

Reta always bought books, collected other people's newspapers, magazines, loose papers.    If someone popped a balloon she would stare at the broken end of the balloon obsessively until she could stuff it in her bag she always carried.    She would go to a buffet lunch and pour entire bins of sausages, etc into that bag.     I have tested her on occasion (to understand her thought processes a little better) by telling her I was going to keep the broken balloon.   As a result, she did not interact with anyone all evening: she just sat and stared at the balloon and tried to steal it away.    She complained obsessively for years to my husband (her son) that I wouldn't let her have the piece of balloon.  I believe she concentrates on hoarding every moment of her life and is domineering to her adult children, or anyone else who allows her to be.  She is sharp-tongued, crude, and very manipulative and intelligent to get her way.  

 

I believe hoarders this severe are complete sociopaths.  They will do anything they can to get what they want and manipulate their children, abuse them to control them, whatever is necessary to make them assist her or not clean.   My mother-in-law is cruel to waitresses, people on the plane, people in stores, and does not seem to care about the feelings of others.  My husband tips waitresses at Dennys $20 to keep them happy because she disrupts, complains about burned food so they bring her more and then keeps the "burned" food too.   When she leaves a restaurant or a dentist's office, she cleans out the office or area, stealing magazines that aren't hers, etc.    Only one of her four children has retained spouses; she has driven off all the rest because she doesn't want significant others to inhibit her excursions to shop or package her stuff in boxes.     A typical box could have used clothing, molded food, rat droppings, dirty used clothing, urine soaked newspapers.  

 

She always talks about recycling, but never recycles!

 

She attended lectures and read newspapers and books and could appear quite intelligent.   It didn't take long to realize the discussions were one-way.    Reta collects facts like she collects junk or spoiled food.   I believe that fact collecting is a symptom of the severe hoarder.   She marked passages in books, put in post-its, wrote little notes incessantly.

 

I have researched medical treatments for this type of person.  Until recently, nothing existed.   Apparently, Zoloft has some effect on some.    Therapy doesn't help; the inviduals are completely mentally ill.    I read one report that showed there was no brain activity in parts of the cerebral cortex in these individuals, and that schizophrenics and hoarders have in common the same areas of unusual brain activity in the hypothalamus and two other areas of the brain.      This appears to be a systemic defect of the brain and the chemical mediators in the brain (ex dopamine) that mediate pleasure.     

 

 

This is one of the worst forms of mental illness and one of the most disruptive for families of these sick people.    Children should be removed from such individuals.

 

 

Sweet Mother of God!! Yours has to be the absolute worst case of hoarding that I've EVER heard of!!!

 

Is this woman still alive? Still on the loose? I hope for her sake that she is in a mental facility somewhere for her own good!

 
First | Prev | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | Next | Last