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Topic : 08/04 Daddy Drama

Number of Replies: 1404
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Created on : Friday, April 25, 2008, 03:00:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/29/08) Christina, 21, and her younger sister, Carlie, 13, say they had a close relationship with their father, Michael, until two years ago when he decided to transition to a female. Michael was a police officer, soldier and loving parent who lived his life as a male for 40 years. Now, he wants his daughters to call him Mom, because he says Dad is gone, but they refuse. Michael, who prefers to be called Kayla, says she wants to explain to her daughters why she's living as a woman, but they've never given her the chance. The last time Christina saw her father was two years ago when he showed up at her work in lace and blue jeans to break the news that he's transgendered. When she sees Kayla onstage, does she greet her with open arms? Next, Carlie joins her sister and father. She says she wants her old dad back, but will she feel the same after seeing Kayla? Can the father-daughter bond be turned into a mother-daughter one? Be prepared for an emotional journey as two daughters  struggle to understand how someone they say loved so much could hurt them so badly. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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May 5, 2008, 10:14 am PDT

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Quote From: b_urself

 I think Dr. Phil was too hard on this man I could definently see the remorse in his eyes, I just don't think he is a person to show it but if you really watched the show you could see it!! I understand what the girls had to say but i think they need to grow up and try to except it!!! Could it have been done differently yes, he should have talked to the girls told them he was unhappy and maybe went through counsiling. But what is done is done and they can't change it life goes on and they need to except it! I think they were very rude and mean to him they need to except him the would is hard enought to live in and other people will be mean and rude enough his family doesn't have to add to that pain and difficult journey!

       This situation is already psychologically difficult for all parties for immediate acceptance. The first step towards acceptance of anything is tolerance.

       Kayla can easily stop forcefully ramming an issue that is obviously psychologically hurting her children when she was a he. That won't even bring tolerance, and these children won't recover from this type of ordeal in no different way physical and sexual assault.

      All Kayla needs to do is resume child support payments even though it'll conclude the gender change at a later date, but it would eliminate this particular tension making issue.

     Then, Kayla and her children need to reestablish a family bond even if Kayla must sacrifice an equal bond to that when Kayla was Michael or at least a similar bond. Between these two over time tolerance would be attained.

      When Kayla and her children are more comfortable with the change, renewed bond, and a shown interest in their lives can Kayla bring about attempting to change how the children refer to her as father or what not. Even if this fails, she would still be a female father figure acceptance can be attained.

       As a parent, a parent must be the one more flexible to the child's needs, and right now the children need time and a comfortable level of this change to bring about tolerating such a change and tolerance leads to acceptance.

 

      Yeah, I know a bit ironic, but my stance doesn't mean that I'm not willing to step up to the plate and find a functional solution for the situation.

 
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May 5, 2008, 10:44 am PDT

04/29 Daddy Dramas

Quote From: julie1418

How about basic sex ed where they teach the differences between male and female. Males have the male organ. Females have the female organ. Meanwhile some children are born with both through the embryo's development being fed both developmental stages; therefore, the child gains both organs.

         Simple science 1 on 1. The purpose of additional research is geared to make it socially acceptable for any person to change their gender at any given time especially given medical manipulation advancement.

 

So your answer then is NO, you don't have any scientific data or research to prove that it is not possible for the body and intellect to have to different genders identities. You have your opinion.

 

 I strongly feel that this situation is going to set a past precedant, and the show will tip off other dead beat fathers to have gender changes performed for no better reason than to nullify child support/alumini.

 

I am having a difficult time believing that an otherwise happily heterosexual man with NO gender identity issues would go through a sex change operation for the sake of avoiding child support. The gender identity and the child support are TWO different issues. If Michael/Kayla were paying child support and doing everything feasible to make these easier on the children, would you feel differently about the gender identity issue? With very few exceptions, ALL parents should pay support. It is unfortunate that THIS person didn't because it is making it easier for people bigoted against gender identity and sexual issues to make a case. There are PLENTY of people NOT supporting their children financially or otherwise for a VARIETY of reasons...it is really a separate issue from the gender identity. I agree....this should NOT be an excuse to avoid child support.

 

 

Not to mention paying child support would cost a LOT LESS MONEY than everything else he's doing...so, that theory is out the window.
 
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May 5, 2008, 10:47 am PDT

04/29 Daddy Dramas

Quote From: seenfff

       And, that is your opinion. Considering this site is meant for opinions, I'll forego turning this into a research paper complete with quotes and a works cited of sorts.

 

        As to the lengths of a person will go to avoid child support, you don't find this a stretch when many parents not just fathers are willing to murder their child after birth regardless of 20 years locked up or so before parole, and when they exit lockup they still won't have a dime to pay for that child financially the rest of their lives. I hope that this is the environment; you group in that this opinion is based. If so, I hope there's a nice country house that I buy nearby. I won't ever have to worry about the basic dangers a city or major city possesses.

 

        As to my last paragraph in that, I did omit much in that with my apparent vein attempts to hope against hope that it's not already in play.

       Here's the problem. For roughly 100 years, science has been the biggest driving force in attempting to prove the reasons behind one basic prejudice or another (yes, I can turn this into a legitmate research as though I was attempting to pass a college course if that's your wish. I have access to some pretty good and credible academic resources to tap into from opposing viewpoints of an issue and so on). I'm afraid considering one a medical issue will inevitably involve another issue, and I guess apparently many do not realize will be impacted.

       Can you imagine being attracted to the same gender, yet able to afford a gender change would react? If the government is against supporting homosexual rights or as homosexuals prefer gay/happy, even though they publically say that they support Gay Rights? It'd be like W. Bush's declaration of war speech against Iraq all over again. The government will crawl to bring laws to protect civil rights at best. At worst, the medical field could aid in the utter elimination of the movement. One very simple yet frightening statement. Doctors could present medical proof that they can correct the hormone disorder in the brains of people, and they can offer gender change to those who wish to change gender instead. All the government at this point will do is sit on their hands and appear to be working on laws to protect these hard won fights. The illusion of choice is a powerful weapon.

        The best way to detour this situation is to prevent the mindset needed to allow it to happen, but the evidence that science is already making strides in this direction is mind boggling, and where the government is concerned is also the basis of a good conspiracy. Plausible denibility and presently unprovable.

 

        The really mindboggling thing is; I can add quotes from journals, links, some other artcles to this and turn it into a pure research paper. My present hope is that I'm wrong and it's just basic research and not being used to trample rights. So, I choose to consider issues in this field as a right to choice with legal backing; otherwise, this can and may come into play. The question then turns into when and how disasterious will it be.

 

        As additional note, I would have to rewrite it to accomodate the quotes and likely better organize it. My first drafts are notoriously out of sequence...

    

"And, that is your opinion. Considering this site is meant for opinions, I'll forego turning this into a research paper complete with quotes and a works cited of sorts."

The POINT is, what is your opinion BASED on? Just saying things that make you feel good? Or is there something more substantial to it?
 
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May 5, 2008, 12:43 pm PDT

All About ME!

Where is there any compassion for the lives of others?  I can fully sympathize with the hell it must be, living trapped in the body of the wrong gender.  Kayla has suffered, no doubting that...but how about being a bit more "subtle" with the family that he/she/they brought into this world? Times are different today.  What is doable now, was not so years back.  There is a way to do it..a mature way...with the cognitive thinking of the fact that these children didn't ask to be born.  To the child, adult or not...you are their father.  Is it their fault that nature did you dirty?  You, Kayla, made a choice to blend into the mainstream, and you do owe those you brought along for the ride, a bit more of a gentle transition.  This is like telling someone their life has been a lie.  While yours may have been, why spread the joy?  I hated the whole show, not because of the transgender thing...I get that.  But the ME ME ME!  Once there are other people, it really is WE WE WE...all I saw was a lot of selfish and very uncaring behavior.  To show up at someone's job dressed like that...hello!  what was it about?  It was shocking, cruel, the wrong place to even begin to reveal such a situation.  Being cross gender, gay, straight, neuter...gives no one the right to be cruel.  This was just outrageously inconsiderate.  If you've found how to address your sexuality or your gender, you must have resources.  Why not tell this in a family therapy session where a professional can soften the blow and help to broach it with sensitivity.  Also, to prep you, Kayla, for a reaction you may not like...this takes time...It is not all about you.
 

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May 5, 2008, 1:03 pm PDT

.. If this is repeated, I had a technical difficulty

Quote From: PennyLane78

"And, that is your opinion. Considering this site is meant for opinions, I'll forego turning this into a research paper complete with quotes and a works cited of sorts."

The POINT is, what is your opinion BASED on? Just saying things that make you feel good? Or is there something more substantial to it?

      Yes, I have researched this topic, and I've picked the side that supports my opinion. I spend quite a bit of time reading an archive called Opposing Viewpoints that is educationally backed that gives support to both sides of any number of given issues. I was a science major until my weak math skills derailed that major quite effectively.

      Am I supposed to have any real feeling about my opinion, or should I be simply state my opinion based on my credible sources? As a matter of information, Issues that border my morals, beliefs, and princples regardless which side I'm on that risks infringement on civil and human rights; I generally do not particularly feel good about it. But, it is the conclusion that I've come to for better or worse. Additionally, I feel compelled to point out if you're trying to convince me; I've come to the wrong conclusion. This is not a good way to bring it about. At best, you've added only reinforced my conclusion. At worse, you've planted my opinion beyond ability to convince me I'm wrong.

      I might add that I have sought constructive solutions to help with Kayla's situation, and she has every ability to decide her own course regardless of any of our positions regardless how we came to those positions.

 

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May 5, 2008, 1:24 pm PDT

Point of fact

Quote From: PennyLane78

Not to mention paying child support would cost a LOT LESS MONEY than everything else he's doing...so, that theory is out the window.

       Kayla has not paid child support for quite some time. She nearly owes the same amount as what she has taken care of up until this point, and she hasn't concluded changing her gender. And, she has shown little to no interested in paying child support at the same time.

       So far, I've found no legal criteria for this situation. No, proof that a gender change is in progress, so any dead beat dad who doesn't truly want to perform a gender change can fake it. Nothing that I can find with how child support is legally handled during a gender transition. And, I have yet to find a clause on how child support is handled after the gender change. If someone has this information and where to find it, I am all ears. If not, I've seen nothing in regards to legal repurcussions for failing to pay child support. I would say not only is the theory in the window; it also shows dead beat dads an easier way than dropping off the map to avoid child support; whether they legitmately conduct a gender transition or not. Again, if you know where this information is, I'm eager to read it for myself and at it's source.

 
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May 5, 2008, 2:02 pm PDT

04/29 Daddy Dramas

Quote From: seenfff

       Kayla has not paid child support for quite some time. She nearly owes the same amount as what she has taken care of up until this point, and she hasn't concluded changing her gender. And, she has shown little to no interested in paying child support at the same time.

       So far, I've found no legal criteria for this situation. No, proof that a gender change is in progress, so any dead beat dad who doesn't truly want to perform a gender change can fake it. Nothing that I can find with how child support is legally handled during a gender transition. And, I have yet to find a clause on how child support is handled after the gender change. If someone has this information and where to find it, I am all ears. If not, I've seen nothing in regards to legal repurcussions for failing to pay child support. I would say not only is the theory in the window; it also shows dead beat dads an easier way than dropping off the map to avoid child support; whether they legitmately conduct a gender transition or not. Again, if you know where this information is, I'm eager to read it for myself and at it's source.

Not true .. To be in transition has specific sets of standards to be followed. In order to transition from male to female you a required to have a minimum of 1 year of hormone replacement therapy. Hand in hand with this goes blood tests to measure the amount hormones as well as your organ functions.

 

To be on Estrogen you also need to take an anti-androgen. The anti-androgen reduces the levels of testosterone on the body so that the estrogen and have the effects needed. In doing so you first must understand for a male to female this means sterility. Then to further add to it the ability to sexually functions as a man. For a transsexual these issues are no big deal and actually quite a relief.

 

If Kayla was "faking" transition then thee things would be there plain as day either way. You can only hide the effects of estrogen for so long before it not only has a personal physical effect it also has a visual effect that could be noticed by others. You don't fake transition to avoid child support it just doesn't fit and would be detrimental to any man trying to get away with it.

 

 

 
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May 5, 2008, 2:16 pm PDT

04/29 Daddy Dramas

Quote From: seenfff

      Yes, I have researched this topic, and I've picked the side that supports my opinion. I spend quite a bit of time reading an archive called Opposing Viewpoints that is educationally backed that gives support to both sides of any number of given issues. I was a science major until my weak math skills derailed that major quite effectively.

      Am I supposed to have any real feeling about my opinion, or should I be simply state my opinion based on my credible sources? As a matter of information, Issues that border my morals, beliefs, and princples regardless which side I'm on that risks infringement on civil and human rights; I generally do not particularly feel good about it. But, it is the conclusion that I've come to for better or worse. Additionally, I feel compelled to point out if you're trying to convince me; I've come to the wrong conclusion. This is not a good way to bring it about. At best, you've added only reinforced my conclusion. At worse, you've planted my opinion beyond ability to convince me I'm wrong.

      I might add that I have sought constructive solutions to help with Kayla's situation, and she has every ability to decide her own course regardless of any of our positions regardless how we came to those positions.

      Yes, I have researched this topic, and I've picked the side that supports my opinion.

 

LOL! That is just astonishing!

 
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May 5, 2008, 2:18 pm PDT

04/29 Daddy Dramas

Quote From: julie1418

      Yes, I have researched this topic, and I've picked the side that supports my opinion.

 

LOL! That is just astonishing!

Nothing like reason without ego huh? LOL!!!!!
 
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May 5, 2008, 2:21 pm PDT

04/29 Daddy Dramas

Quote From: seenfff

       Kayla has not paid child support for quite some time. She nearly owes the same amount as what she has taken care of up until this point, and she hasn't concluded changing her gender. And, she has shown little to no interested in paying child support at the same time.

       So far, I've found no legal criteria for this situation. No, proof that a gender change is in progress, so any dead beat dad who doesn't truly want to perform a gender change can fake it. Nothing that I can find with how child support is legally handled during a gender transition. And, I have yet to find a clause on how child support is handled after the gender change. If someone has this information and where to find it, I am all ears. If not, I've seen nothing in regards to legal repurcussions for failing to pay child support. I would say not only is the theory in the window; it also shows dead beat dads an easier way than dropping off the map to avoid child support; whether they legitmately conduct a gender transition or not. Again, if you know where this information is, I'm eager to read it for myself and at it's source.

I don't know about YOU, but I base my opinions on reliable resources, evidence and facts.  I personally refuse to be intransigent. I pride myself on learning everything I can about a topic and leaning towards what the evidence says.
 
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