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Topic : 08/04 Daddy Drama

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Created on : Friday, April 25, 2008, 03:00:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/29/08) Christina, 21, and her younger sister, Carlie, 13, say they had a close relationship with their father, Michael, until two years ago when he decided to transition to a female. Michael was a police officer, soldier and loving parent who lived his life as a male for 40 years. Now, he wants his daughters to call him Mom, because he says Dad is gone, but they refuse. Michael, who prefers to be called Kayla, says she wants to explain to her daughters why she's living as a woman, but they've never given her the chance. The last time Christina saw her father was two years ago when he showed up at her work in lace and blue jeans to break the news that he's transgendered. When she sees Kayla onstage, does she greet her with open arms? Next, Carlie joins her sister and father. She says she wants her old dad back, but will she feel the same after seeing Kayla? Can the father-daughter bond be turned into a mother-daughter one? Be prepared for an emotional journey as two daughters  struggle to understand how someone they say loved so much could hurt them so badly. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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April 29, 2008, 6:46 pm PDT

04/29 Daddy Dramas

Quote From: berdeniafaye

If he had these feelings then he should have thought about it BEFORE he got married 3 times and took on the responsibility of becoming a father. Yes, this peson was thinking of NO ONE but himself. I can more

than likely perdict that these girls will marry a man, looking for a father figure. Nothing is more important

to most women than their families, but most men are detached, and this man  was no exception. He is a

man dressed as a woman. Talk about abuse, this is the worst kind of mental and emtional abuse that

there is. I agree with Dr. Phil, as this was a man very self asorbed. He was so un-feeling and so unemotional as his daughters were going through their very emotional feelings about what and how they

were trying to deal with this major life changing time of their life. They did not ask for this and it's not their

problem or fault, but he is expecting them to call him mom.!! Is he nuts or completely out of his mind?????

They have a mom, they need a dad, not a dad that is playing dress up trying to convince himself that he needs to be a woman. He needs mental help first and foremost, tremendous amount of therapy.And these

girls as well. My thoughts and prayers go out to each of them. 

I love your post.....You took the words right out of my mouth.......I completely agree.

It's very sad and I feel very ba for these girls.

 
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April 29, 2008, 6:46 pm PDT

Not sure what to say

I am so terribly sorry for those girls.  Whether "he/she" is their mother or father (who knows these days) there was NO feeling.  No teary eyes,,no emotion at all.  How could a young woman sit there and pour her heart out aboout her loss,  and a stranger walking her down the aisle and  not one drop of emotion.  How can you look at your 13 yr old daughter sobbing and not reach out someway.

I hope they get some very strong counseling and help.  Thank goodness for their strong real mothers and family.  I will pray that those girls will not look at all men that way and that they can go on to live strong healthy lives.

 
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April 29, 2008, 6:46 pm PDT

04/29 Daddy Dramas

Quote From: mawendt

I can understand that there is turmoil in the mind of the "man" who wants to become a "woman". That is "his" struggle. but to request "his" daughters to call "him" mom is out of the question. They already have a mom, from the way I see it, their dad no longer exists. "he", "himself" has changed "his" name. If "he" wants to claim any biological connection with these (way too young for this drama) girls, "he" better back up and remember who made this choice to change genders. He's had those 40 years to think it over and come to the emotional platou to go through with it. They were slapped in the face with "his" choice. Showing up at her work?? say what?! So unfair and selfish on "his" part. This should have been talked about in private BEFORE the opperation. And now "he" wants "his" 'chance to plead his case'? These are Michael's daughter's, Michael cheated them out of their father, by being selfish enough to thrust this on them in a non-parental way. they are still young 13 and 21. Gee wiz they are dealing with their own identity and that age..... the most "he" should expect from them is a friendly aquaintenence, that has just been introduced to these girls and work to a trusting relationship.  this call me mom balogna- stoooooop! when my son had a new step mom...it was his choice what to call her, not hers. so there.
i so totally agree with you-- he has the cash for what is important to him.. and its obvious its not his kids anymore-- call me mom!!! plzzzzzzzzzzzz!!    
 
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April 29, 2008, 6:48 pm PDT

HE/SHE is SO SELF CENTERED!

Not once did this man/woman/whatever show any remorse for hurting his daughters. I saw him roll his eyes when his daughter Christiana was trying to tell him how she felt. All this man/woman cares about is his/herself!

He is so arrogant and shows no emotion. Maybe if he dealt with his "issues" instead of his feelings and changing into another gender, he would have a better outcome and so would his daugthers.

 

I don't agree with Dr. Phil when he says that the two, transgenderism and his arrogant attitude can be seperate. I think the reason he is arrogant is because of his refusal to deal with his deep seated issues. Obvioulsy something  happened to him when he was younger.

 

I've seen the same kind of behaviour with other transgenders, mainly M2F and also  many gay men. They have this defensive self absorbedness about them. it's sickening.

 

I'm also sick and tired that we as a society are being told we have to accept this kind of lifestyle and change our views.

 

Well, how about THEY change their views and do something about themselves.

 
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April 29, 2008, 6:49 pm PDT

At Last...

One of these shows about people wanting to become the other sex shows exactly what most of these people are like. They are selfish and only single mindedly care about reaching their goal of becoming the other sex. They don't care who they hurt or how they hurt them on their way to getting what they want.

I met my exhusband at work. He was an emergency room doctor. He was smart, talented, kind and generous. We dated as he was separated from his wife. His wife was a burnt out schizophrenic (supposedly) who wanted to move up to the area where I was living for a geographical cure. They divorced and not too long after the divorce, we married. There was an adopted teen age daughter. According to him, the exwife could not get pregnant. When we were first married, I had two times when I questioned as to whether I was pregnant and got tested.

We had our problems in the marriage. The worst probably being me suffering from depression which later I realized, was endemic in me since childhood. I know he was struggling too. One day I found ntlons on our kitchen table. I assumed that he had bought them for his daughter. Then I found my unmentionables, ones that I had put away because I had gained weight, in his drawers. I had no idea what they were doing there.

(A side note...I had gone into therapy by now).

I asked him one day what the heck was going on. I couldn't hold back anymore. It all flooded out of him. He had been wearing the nylons under his scubs and the other unmentiobales. He had felt like a girl since he was a child. He first wife knew all about this and had made him go into therapy and had even gone into therapy for it and she had given him permission to go through the treatment and go through the surgery. Looking back on it, there were little ways she tried to give me hints, but I was young and niave. I was 27. I missed it all. Anything in the house that was female he told me his ex had left when she moved out. Plausable.

When he was married to the ex, they wanted to have children. She had all the tests done and he led me to believe that she was the one who had problems. Once again I was niave and never put two and two together when she got pregnant with a boyfriend a few years after the divorce.

We went to my therapest and we talked. I was a complete wreck. I was literally going through a breakdown. She asked me if it was ok for him to go through the treatment and transition. In my mind there was no way I could say no. I left the room and he stayed with her and they talked. I sobbed and sobbed in a room down the hall.

He started to see my therapest. She was treating us both. I began to feel like I couldn't trust her. She decided that he needed a different therapest and found him another one. Come to find out this therapest has her own sexual problems and was not a neutral therapest. She pushed him towards the change. He then found a psychiatrist who specialized in gender dysphoria. Another non neutral professional.

These therapests, as he related to me, never explored how the fact that his mother treated him as a girl from birth. She would sit and tell him what beautiful hair he had and how the girls would be jealous of it and when the new cataogues came in she would look at them with him and they would look at all the pretty clothes together. There was also the fact that something happened between him and his father in the shower and how he was sent on a trip to Europe with a family friend who was gay.

He began to change. He became mean and selfish. We were having money problems and he took money from his retirement fund to pay off the bills. We were in debt counseling. He deposited the money in his account and then lied to me and told me that it was eaten up by taxes. He took the money and bought clothes, makeup, jewelry, and stuff with it. meanwhile the bills were barely hetting paid. He was supposed to wait to start hormone treatments. He lied to me about it. being a doctor, he wrote his own scripts for the hormones and he injected himself. He spent thousands on electrolysis. I finally filed for divorce. It took a while to get him out of the house. Once he was out of the house, he had my electric turned off and my phone turned off knowing that I had major medical problems at the time.

I was lost in depression. While I was in Boston with him one day, (I had voice therapy down there) he had my horse spirited away. It was dark when I got back and I had gone right in the house. I get a call from him the next morning, oh yeah, in case you notice a horse missing, I had it taken. Once he had the horse, he didn't care for it. It too me months to get him back and when I did he was malnourished and dehydrated. Then there was the time that he told me that all my friends were lining up to testify against me in the divorce. He left me sobbing. Being a doctor, he had enough psychiatric training that he knew exactly how to play me. I came close to committing suicide a couple of times.

He lost his job at the local hospital and at the Emergency Medicine group that he worked for. No one wanted him around.

The long and short of it was I went through a major breakdown. We divorced. He moved away and is now working at a hospital as a post op "woman" who is now a lesbian. People call the ER to make sure he isn't working before they come in. His parting shot to me was that he was never in love with me and that it was him that was the one that couldn't make the child with his exwife. I can only imagine how he laughed as I went to get those two pregnancy tests.

I talked to a psychiatrist while this was going on and I told him about how my ex was acting and he told me that this is the way transgendered people act. They become very self centered and selfish. They feel that it is all about them and everybody, no matter what, should accept what they are doing and they are affronted and don't get it when they aren't accepted. I am glad to fianally see one of these shows that show that it isn't all feel good and hearts and flowers. These people get married and have children with absolutely no consideration to the people they are becoming involved with and the children that they are creating. They don't care how they hurt them or to whether they will leave their lives in shreds. I divorced my ex in 93. I am just now able to start dating again. He made me question my sexuality as to why would I be attracted to a "woman" so to speak. You all that read this will say she is angry. Yep, I still am angry. He destroyed me and he also destroyed his daughter, who I lfet out of the story. He was a doctor. Of anyone he should have been better as he knew my problems. He willfully used them and worsened them. I will never have any sympathy for any transgender who treats their family badly. My sympathy goes only to those they hurt.

 
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April 29, 2008, 6:50 pm PDT

Bravo Michael

Quote From: michael115

1st off since i am a christian,all i can say for the man who used to be a father,is i will def.pray for him,in hopes he realizes what he did,and will want to be a man and father,because if god wanted him to be a women,he would have been a women,but god does not make mistakes,so he is what he is!

 

i am sitting here watching this show,and i see the pain in christina eyes and even more in carlie's eyes,and let me just say,i am soooooooo sorry,that you are going thru what your going thru,you should not have to go thru this,not at 13 yrs old,but i want to say i am very proud of you for handling it the way you did,and you should be very proud of yourself

 

he is just sitting there,and he has an answer for everything,he is smug,and for lack of a better word he is cocky,and i was just floored when he said DO I,like do i have a daughter,i just cannot believe he would say that,i am looking at the tv saying are you kidding me,and you should be ashamed of yourself,he gives a short smug answer,and then he just have's a stuck up look on his face,like i am right and no matter what you say,your wrong

 

well i got news for you,YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG,then the way your handling this with your daughters,you do not tell a 12,that she is a child,and that is so wrong there is not a even a word do describe it,and its pretty pathetic,that you cant pay your child support for your 13 yr old,but you can go get your nails done,and everything else,you need to give that money to your 13 yr old,she deserves it alot more

 

finally let me just say  i was very impressed  with the way christina and carly handled themselves,and i am so sorry again for everything your going thru

 

and christina if you still need somebody to walk you down the isle at your wedding,just let me know,and this stranger would be honored to walk you down the isle

 

god bless you both,you will be in my prayers 

michael       

Bravo Michael! Perhaps you can be a mentor to their dad because we need more men like you in the world. Men who care and can empathize. We don't have a whole lot of those unfortunately as you can see from watching Dr. Phil and lookin' around. That is simply because many boys are taught that they are supposed to be the "tough provider" and never taught about being a caregiver. By the way, wives need their husbands to be caregivers to them as well. Women have proved they can be providers as well as caregivers and now it is time for the men to prove they can do both.
 
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April 29, 2008, 6:58 pm PDT

04/29 Daddy Dramas

Quote From: blueyewolf

 I have always wondered why people have such a problem with issues such as this? The children act as if she did this to them, to punish them for something.....did anyone else get that, or is it just me?  This is her life, and if she is happy, and not ACTUALLY hurting anyone else, than let her be!! If that were my father, who had a sex change, I would love them no matter what....as I expect he would love me if I professed myself to be homosexual!! I can't fathom how hard this was, for Kayla (sp?) to come on national TV and basically out herself to anyone who didn't already know. Hopefully she is comfortable enough with herself in this matter? Do the children think of that? Of course not, it's all about them....I am a single parent of 3 wonderful children, ages 12 (f), 6 (m), and 8mo (f).....if any of them were to, later in life tell me they were going to go through this, I would be behind them 100%....no matter what, because that is what UNCONDITIONAL LOVE is all about!!
Thank you for those comments, when I was watching it, I was thinking I was the only one who thought what you said. It seems like the kids wont accept kayla unless she goes back to presenting as a male - which in all probability could result in suicide as so many transgenders do, because of family like that. They dont seem to care at all about how sad kayla is    
 
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April 29, 2008, 6:59 pm PDT

Respect

Quote From: karynm8621

I am transgender in the process of transition. I am also the parent of a 22 year old daughter and I'm married so i feel i have a good handle on this situation. If anything I have enough experience to speak my mind. What I will say is please read my entire statement before passing and judgement on my words. Also while i am of the belief that "god doesn'y make mistakes" as some christians post I will tell you that i don't believe he made a mistake with me, I believe he handed me exactly what he felt I could handle and made me this way. My point is that I don't want to be bashed for being who I am.

 

As a transsexual I can tell you that what we go through is not a choice, it is a matter of survival. We live always hoping that this will go away or that somehow we can manage it and live as we are told to live. To do this we take on very masculine roles, get married, have children and try to prove ourselves as men. A good many of us assume that love will cure us. For those who believe you shouldn't get married or have children if you are like this you are making a very short sited statement. Until the inception of the internet most of us didn't have the resource to understand why we feel the way we feel so we try to do the best wee can with the cards we are dealt, usually very unssuccessfully . Transsexualism has one of the highest rates of suicide known today because we don't understand and live in pain.

 

One of the words that is consistently thrown in our faces is that we are selfish for making the change. Being selfish is a two way St. Is it selfish to marry and not reveal it to a spouse? The answer is yes. Is it selfish of people to expect someone with Gender Identity Disorder to live as their birth gender ..The answer is again, yes!  This is not a choice and to get to this point it is a matter of survival I know, I've sat with a 9mm handgun in my hand thinking of the easiest way out. Thankfully I got help and decided it was better to transition than to be called selfish for taking my life. Now with that stated.

 

If I were on that stage I would have explained that there is a right way and a wrong way to handle transition. All to often Trans people feel the need to leave their former life behind out of terrible pain. So distance themselves as much as they can from old pictures, old prounouns, names and labels. It is very painful for a trans person to be addressed by their birth gender.

 

This womans first mistake was simply that she is shirking her responsibilities. No matter what the children feel, she is the adult and she needs to support them and make an attempt to be in their lives. If they reject just keep trying until the door opens. On the flip side as painful as this is for the children they don't have the understanding that this isn't a choice and going back is a death sentence. They don't understand the suffering that goes with it and all they want is their "dad" I don't blame them at all but what seems to be happening here is that by expecting this woman to de-transition or they don't want to be a part of her life they are essentially forcing her to build a wall of resentment and anything beyond that simply isn't being heard.

 

When I broke the news to my daughter the very first thing I explained was that Dad wasn't going away, I will always be her dad. I assured her I wasn't looking to replace mom. Lastly I offered to have her a part of my counseling sessions so she could come to understsand exactly what I was going through and get her own questions answered. To date I have an execellent relationship with my daughter.

 

The thing that bothered me about this situation was that once she heard that she needed to be dad she didn't want to be receptive to anything that was said and she shut down. I can tell you that I would have walked over and hugged my child at the site of their pain. Instead what we saw was a very detached woman who has distanced herself as to not feel pain over the situation.

 

Transition is not an easy path, there is a lot of soul searching and therapy that goes with it. I can say as I sit here today is that it can be done with dignity, respect and most of all in a positive way. If anyone wants to learn more about this issue I have a blog that that be accessed at http://karynm.blogspot.com/ 

 

As far as this show goes, I feel like dr Phil had some good points but he dropped the ball. He needed to address the deeper issue of the need to transition in order to establish a boundery of the right and wrong way to handle things ...He did not do that...

 

Karyn Maynard

 

 

 

I have much respect for you and I feel for all you have been through. However... ya know there is always going to be a "however"..... changing your physical appearance will never ever ever change who you are. In that regard I find it to be an incredibly superficial thing to do.
 
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April 29, 2008, 7:00 pm PDT

I agree, well said. I too think Dr Phil dropped the ball.

Quote From: karynm8621

I am transgender in the process of transition. I am also the parent of a 22 year old daughter and I'm married so i feel i have a good handle on this situation. If anything I have enough experience to speak my mind. What I will say is please read my entire statement before passing and judgement on my words. Also while i am of the belief that "god doesn'y make mistakes" as some christians post I will tell you that i don't believe he made a mistake with me, I believe he handed me exactly what he felt I could handle and made me this way. My point is that I don't want to be bashed for being who I am.

 

As a transsexual I can tell you that what we go through is not a choice, it is a matter of survival. We live always hoping that this will go away or that somehow we can manage it and live as we are told to live. To do this we take on very masculine roles, get married, have children and try to prove ourselves as men. A good many of us assume that love will cure us. For those who believe you shouldn't get married or have children if you are like this you are making a very short sited statement. Until the inception of the internet most of us didn't have the resource to understand why we feel the way we feel so we try to do the best wee can with the cards we are dealt, usually very unssuccessfully . Transsexualism has one of the highest rates of suicide known today because we don't understand and live in pain.

 

One of the words that is consistently thrown in our faces is that we are selfish for making the change. Being selfish is a two way St. Is it selfish to marry and not reveal it to a spouse? The answer is yes. Is it selfish of people to expect someone with Gender Identity Disorder to live as their birth gender ..The answer is again, yes!  This is not a choice and to get to this point it is a matter of survival I know, I've sat with a 9mm handgun in my hand thinking of the easiest way out. Thankfully I got help and decided it was better to transition than to be called selfish for taking my life. Now with that stated.

 

If I were on that stage I would have explained that there is a right way and a wrong way to handle transition. All to often Trans people feel the need to leave their former life behind out of terrible pain. So distance themselves as much as they can from old pictures, old prounouns, names and labels. It is very painful for a trans person to be addressed by their birth gender.

 

This womans first mistake was simply that she is shirking her responsibilities. No matter what the children feel, she is the adult and she needs to support them and make an attempt to be in their lives. If they reject just keep trying until the door opens. On the flip side as painful as this is for the children they don't have the understanding that this isn't a choice and going back is a death sentence. They don't understand the suffering that goes with it and all they want is their "dad" I don't blame them at all but what seems to be happening here is that by expecting this woman to de-transition or they don't want to be a part of her life they are essentially forcing her to build a wall of resentment and anything beyond that simply isn't being heard.

 

When I broke the news to my daughter the very first thing I explained was that Dad wasn't going away, I will always be her dad. I assured her I wasn't looking to replace mom. Lastly I offered to have her a part of my counseling sessions so she could come to understsand exactly what I was going through and get her own questions answered. To date I have an execellent relationship with my daughter.

 

The thing that bothered me about this situation was that once she heard that she needed to be dad she didn't want to be receptive to anything that was said and she shut down. I can tell you that I would have walked over and hugged my child at the site of their pain. Instead what we saw was a very detached woman who has distanced herself as to not feel pain over the situation.

 

Transition is not an easy path, there is a lot of soul searching and therapy that goes with it. I can say as I sit here today is that it can be done with dignity, respect and most of all in a positive way. If anyone wants to learn more about this issue I have a blog that that be accessed at http://karynm.blogspot.com/ 

 

As far as this show goes, I feel like dr Phil had some good points but he dropped the ball. He needed to address the deeper issue of the need to transition in order to establish a boundery of the right and wrong way to handle things ...He did not do that...

 

Karyn Maynard

 

 

 

 
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April 29, 2008, 7:01 pm PDT

I've been there

I1 years ago my ex-husband announced he was transgendered.  My daughter was 13 at the time.  I have lived everything I saw on the show including the "father" who turned his back on his daughter because she didn't understand.  

 

I want to tell Christina and Carlie that none of this is your fault and I agree completely with your reaction to your father's new persona.  My daughtef\r has not seen her father in over ten years. Although the years were not easy on her, she has grown into a beautiful, well adjusted young woman.  She graduated from college last year and is working and living on her own.  I am extremely proud of her.

 

To the moms of these beautiful young ladies, I want to say I cried as I watched the show today seeing the pain, anger and sadness on your daughters faces.  I feel for all of you and hope you can put this craziness behind you and help your daughters understand that their father's problems are not a reflection on them and there is nothing they can do to change his attitude.

 
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