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Topic : 05/15 Psychic Dramas

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Created on : Friday, May 09, 2008, 03:58:33 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Some people get spooked by horror films and others by Ouija boards, but are there really ghosts among us? James Van Praagh, a world-renowned medium and co-executive producer of the CBS drama Ghost Whisperer, believes the spirit world is closer than we think. James goes ghost-busting on the Paramount Studios lot with The Insider correspondent, Victoria Recaño. Their discoveries might surprise you. Then, Jennifer Love Hewitt, actress and star of Ghost Whisperer, discusses the unexplained occurrences she encountered on the set. Jennifer plays a medium on the show, but is she a believer in real life? Plus, Diane claims to be haunted by the spirit of a 10-year-old boy. She calls the presence “Jerry” and says he even zaps her hands, arms and legs when he’s angry! Dr. Phil arranges a meeting between James and Diane to see if the medium can communicate with the wayward wraith. You won't believe what James uncovers! Then, Mercedes says she's been addicted to psychics for 12 years and has spent nearly $4,000 a year seeking their advice. She even consulted with six soothsayers to see if she should appear on the Dr. Phil show! Mercedes’ son, Glenn, says he doesn’t need a crystal ball to see that the psychics are taking his mother straight to the cleaners. What does the future hold for Mercedes if she continues down this path? And, James performs readings for a few audience members. Don't miss his startling revelations that bring several people to tears.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

May 19, 2008, 11:30 pm CDT

05/15 Psychic Dramas

Quote From: logicandreason

I know that this was not directed at me, but I am going to respond to  it anyway. 

When you claim something the burden of proof is on you, not the person you are talking to, so actually no one else has to prove that what you are saying is logical, you have to prove that.  So far you haven't.  You've realted a lot of personal experiences, but once again, the arguement from personal experience proves nothing.

What you have proven is that you really, really want to believe that these things you claim happened have no natural cause.  If most people were truly as frustrated as you seem to be with having 'supernatural' events happen in their home, they would have called in the media to show the whole world these events.  To each their own, but becoming unhinged when people do not believe in the supernatural as you do is just plain unreasonable and childish.
Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.  I know my husband doesn't believe in anything he hasn't seen for himself, he always says that about everything from UFO's to ghosts to God.  I look at that as a closed mind which doesn't see what is in front of him, at least on believing in God.  As far as spirits, I very much believe in them.  I know it was a guardian angel who saved my granddaughter when she was just learning to roll over.  She had a Fisher Price Aquarium on her crib and she rolled onto her belly, getting her head wedged between the aquarium and the mattress.  My daughter in law heard a man over the baby montor say "Wake up!"  She was startled awake and thought maybe she was dreaming it when she heard it right next to her bed... "WAKE UP!"  She jumped from bed and ran into the room and found the baby face down in the mattress.  When my grandfathers were on their death bed, both talked of seeing Jesus come to them, they died 17 years apart.  My grandmother was gravely ill when she started talking to my grandfather who passed 35 years earlier.  My other grandfather told my grandmother right before he died that he would see her soon, when she was startled by that he said "In 15 years".  It was 15 years after he died that she died of a heart attack.  These may not be proof to you, but they are to me.   I always tell my kids "I would rather believe in God and heaven and find out when I die that there is no God, then to not believe in God and find out when I die that there is a God and I wasted my after life. Besides, believing in God gives you hope in bad times, helps you work through troubles and it certainly doesn't hurt having that foundation of faith and beliefs, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose.  I mention God in this because Jesus is the most well known Spirit of all time.
 
May 19, 2008, 11:38 pm CDT

Positive self image

Quote From: logicandreason

 

Interesting that you chose to think that I called you or anyone else here crazy.  I absolutely never said that.  In fact, what I did say was that it could very well have been a hallucination and that many things can cause that.  Repeatedly I've said that a simple misfiring of neurons in the brain can cause hallucinations.  You must have either missed that or are trying to purposefully twist what I have said.  Perhaps you didn't read or comprehend what I wrote.  That, too, is a possibility.

Sick or lying, yes I did say that.  And I stand by it.  No matter how indignant you would like to become, I stand by it.  It is an independently attestable medical fact that sickness can cause one to experience things which seem real or are not true.  It is not an independently attestable fact that anything supernatural occurs.

So now you say that others have visited your home and have experienced these things first hand?  Did it ever occur to you that people who believe similar things tend to flock together and that these people may just tend to think the way that you do and are using the same thought processes as you are to interpret these experiences? 

As far as me getting 'real', I personally I know no other way to be and I think I've made it crystal clear that my experiences are not the only ones that I count as valid since I have repeatedly relayed to you that as long as it is independently verifiable and proven then I accept any experience as valid.

As far as your proof being yourself and what you have heard and felt, that is called circular reasoning.  You can not use a source to prove a source. 

Are you always this defensive when challenged instead of just accepting that you have been challenged and discussing the matter reasonably?  It seems to me that you only accept what you experience as true and are closed to the possibility that there could (and are) perfectly rational explanations that have nothing to do with invisible forces.
 



 

It also seems tome that you just simply want to believe that mythological, invisible, unprovable, things happen in your home.  Maybe you like the drama and attention.  Maybe you like being scared.  You certainly do not seem to like reason.
 

I have no trouble with reason, just unreasonable people, of which you are.  Oh I did say I was not going to address any more.  Guess I goofed! 
 
May 19, 2008, 11:49 pm CDT

05/15 Psychic Dramas

Quote From: logicandreason

What exactly am I in denial about?  Do you not find it odd that even though so many people claim to have had supernatural experiences that not one single human being has ever been able to replicate that experience in a double blind scientific study in a laboratory?  I find it to be very telling. 
 


 

Denial would infer that I had experienced something that I did not want to believe was true.  Quite the contrary, if I were presented with scientific proof that such things occur then I would believe that they do based on rational thought processes.  No such evidence has ever been presented to the scientific community at large, so there is simply nothing to be in denial about.
 


As for your experiences, you are using the argument from personal experience as your justification that what you are relating is true.  As I have already covered in a previous response to you, there are many, many reasons that people believe they are experiencing either psychic or supernatural phenomenon, when actually they are not. 

For example, someone in your house may have placed the wine glass where it was placed, which is the most likely explanation.  You could have done it yourself in a fugue state and have no memory of it.  If you say that you actually saw it happen I would have only to suppose, and not to be unkind, but I seriously would believe that you had fabricated the incident entirely.

Christmas trees fall, people knock them over, pets knock them over, hard breezes or drafts could knock one over or it could have just been that it was never very stable in its stand to begin with. 

Shaving crème drawing on a bathroom mirror was done by a human in your house.

What you are doing is something called 'the worship of gaps'.  It occurs when one can not find an immediate explanation for an event and instead fills in a supernatural explanation. 


By chance did you call any local news crews to come film in your home in order to catch these things on film?  Did you offer your home open to scientific inquiry in order to rule out any natural phenomena and trickery or did you simply accept the 'explanation' that these events were cause by something supernatural? 
 


It's easy to take the most simple, available explanation, especially if it somethng that the individual wants to believe is true anyway.  It is harder to be skeptical and scientific and probe for answers which concur with the laws of physics and science.
 


 


 

To be logical and reasonable, science is full of guesses and the "proof" often comes from working out those unreasonable thoughts which everyone thought they were crazy for believing, a good example is when they thought the world was flat until it was proved to be round.  Had Christopher not had the courage to stand up for the unproven, where would we be?  There is a lot of things out there that we don't know about yet.  Look how many new planets they have found since the nine we grew up thinking was all.  Look how much science has grown in Medicine.  Can you believe some of the things they use to believe back then?  The thing is, science is great and proof is nice to have, but just because you don't have the proof you can hold in your hand and see, doesn't mean it isn't so.  As far as the way the brain works, that is great to know... how the soul works is even better to know!
 
May 20, 2008, 7:15 am CDT

05/15 Psychic Dramas

Quote From: grandmashari

To be logical and reasonable, science is full of guesses and the "proof" often comes from working out those unreasonable thoughts which everyone thought they were crazy for believing, a good example is when they thought the world was flat until it was proved to be round.  Had Christopher not had the courage to stand up for the unproven, where would we be?  There is a lot of things out there that we don't know about yet.  Look how many new planets they have found since the nine we grew up thinking was all.  Look how much science has grown in Medicine.  Can you believe some of the things they use to believe back then?  The thing is, science is great and proof is nice to have, but just because you don't have the proof you can hold in your hand and see, doesn't mean it isn't so.  As far as the way the brain works, that is great to know... how the soul works is even better to know!

 You say you are going to stop addressing me and yet you just can to let go of the fact that  you have so many illogical reasons why there is--or was--an invisible force in your home and I merely point that out.  You have made outrageous claims for which there is no proof whatsoever, and resorted to name calling me because you can not stand being challenged on an irrational belief that you keep touting.  That is pathetic.

You obviously, from reading a lot of your other posts, watch a lot of psychics on television and are the type to believe whatever they see on TV.  If not you wouldn't be going on about how John Edwards is so great.  You've never even heard of cold reading have you??

IF THERE WERE GHOSTS, SPIRITS, ECT. THEN SCIENCE WOULD HAVE DISCOVERED THEM BY NOW !!  Funny, how through all of the extensive scientific research on psychics and ghosts that has been done not one shred of evidence has turned up for the existence of such things

You can make excuses all day and all night for why I am wrong and you believe yourself to be right, and I have no doubt that you will.  However, that does not change the fact that you just want to run around believeing that some supernatural entity was in your home.

Oh yeah and there was no media in 1973.  Yeah, right. 




 
May 20, 2008, 7:38 am CDT

05/15 Psychic Dramas

Quote From: grandmashari

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.  I know my husband doesn't believe in anything he hasn't seen for himself, he always says that about everything from UFO's to ghosts to God.  I look at that as a closed mind which doesn't see what is in front of him, at least on believing in God.  As far as spirits, I very much believe in them.  I know it was a guardian angel who saved my granddaughter when she was just learning to roll over.  She had a Fisher Price Aquarium on her crib and she rolled onto her belly, getting her head wedged between the aquarium and the mattress.  My daughter in law heard a man over the baby montor say "Wake up!"  She was startled awake and thought maybe she was dreaming it when she heard it right next to her bed... "WAKE UP!"  She jumped from bed and ran into the room and found the baby face down in the mattress.  When my grandfathers were on their death bed, both talked of seeing Jesus come to them, they died 17 years apart.  My grandmother was gravely ill when she started talking to my grandfather who passed 35 years earlier.  My other grandfather told my grandmother right before he died that he would see her soon, when she was startled by that he said "In 15 years".  It was 15 years after he died that she died of a heart attack.  These may not be proof to you, but they are to me.   I always tell my kids "I would rather believe in God and heaven and find out when I die that there is no God, then to not believe in God and find out when I die that there is a God and I wasted my after life. Besides, believing in God gives you hope in bad times, helps you work through troubles and it certainly doesn't hurt having that foundation of faith and beliefs, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose.  I mention God in this because Jesus is the most well known Spirit of all time.

I look at that as a closed mind which doesn't see what is in front of him, at least on believing in God.


I don't believe in such nonsense either.  God is not 'in front of me'.

I know it was a guardian angel who saved my granddaughter when she was just learning to roll over.  She had a Fisher Price Aquarium on her crib and she rolled onto her belly, getting her head wedged between the aquarium and the mattress.  My daughter in law heard a man over the baby montor say "Wake up!"  She was startled awake and thought maybe she was dreaming it when she heard it right next to her bed... "WAKE UP!"  She jumped from bed and ran into the room and found the baby face down in the mattress. 

Do some research on lucid dreaming. And yes, I did catch the part about how she was supposedly 'awake' when she heard the voice the 2nd time, so before you address that you might like to know that lucid dreaming involves dreams so real they seem like reality.   Also, what kind of 'guardian angel' saves a kid from something falling on it's head and lets another one die of AIDS in Africa or in the backseat of someone's hot car where they have been forgotten??? The answer is that there are no such things as angels, just wishful thinking.  And by the way, if there was really an angel why would it be so ignorant as to stand around yelling 'wake up' instead of just saving the kid itself??

When my grandfathers were on their death bed, both talked of seeing Jesus come to them, they died 17 years apart.

I don't know what them dying 17 years apart has to do with anything, but if you understood the death process of the human brain you would understand the spontaneous release of endorphins that happens at death and how the brain is shutting down so all of the neurons are firing randomly.  That's what causes people to 'see' things as they are dying.

My grandmother was gravely ill when she started talking to my grandfather who passed 35 years earlier.  My other grandfather told my grandmother right before he died that he would see her soon, when she was startled by that he said "In 15 years".  It was 15 years after he died that she died of a heart attack.  These may not be proof to you, but they are to me.

Once again, being gravely ill is the prime time for people to hallucinate!!!  As far as the 15 years thing, that very well could have been a self fulfilling prophecy.  She had it set in her mind that she would die, just like he said, in 15 years and the mind worked off that thought to produce the action.

And you're right.  None of this is proof to me.  It's just more arguments from personal experience which ultimately prove nothing. 

I always tell my kids "I would rather believe in God and heaven and find out when I die that there is no God, then to not believe in God and find out when I die that there is a God and I wasted my after life.

That is called Pascal's Wager and it is actually one of the worst reasons ever for believing in a god..  Look it up. 

Besides, believing in God gives you hope in bad times, helps you work through troubles and it certainly doesn't hurt having that foundation of faith and beliefs, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose.  I mention God in this because Jesus is the most well known Spirit of all time.

Believing in a god actually doesn't give some people hope.  For a lot of people it is a torment of the mind as to why this or that happened and some god didn't prevent it, or they spend their entire lives feeling guilty about normal human experiences that have been labeled 'sinful'.  For you, it might be a comfort, but not for all. 

As far as everything to gain and nothing to lose, say that to all of the millions of people who have been killed over the centuries due to religious warfare.  Tell that to the kids who were sodomized by priests in the Catholic Church.  There is plenty to lose by believing in sky fairies.

And one last thought, are you aware that there is limited proof that Jesus ever existed at all and that there were a LOT of other guys running around at the time all claiming to be messiahs?  The Jesus character was most likely a legend that was simply replicated from other very similar mythologies of the time.  There are quite a few examples in mythology of man-gds being born from heavenly gods with a virgin mother.  Look it up. 
 

 
May 20, 2008, 7:41 am CDT

05/15 Psychic Dramas

Quote From: suzangm

Let me tell you a story.. that happened to my daughter...

 

about 10 years ago, she and her husband rented a house. At odd times the door bell would ring, they thought it was a prank.

So one night, my son in law decided to sit and wait within the house..to catch the kid that was doing it. And finally, it rang..he looked out, and there was no one there... and it did it again "while" he was watching.. they fled the house, and came to mine. I went over, and walked up to the door...it was drizzling out, and as I stood there... a drop of water...trickled down, and went inside the cracked button, creating a bridge with one water droplet..letting current flow...and the bell rang.

 

They were relieved..but for awhile, the house was haunted, wasn't it?  

My point exactly !! :) People have been known to believe some pretty irrational things until presented with a rational explanation.  Most people, once presented with that rational explanation will embrace it.  Some will still cling to irrationality. 
 
May 20, 2008, 7:42 am CDT

05/15 Psychic Dramas

Quote From: picalina

I have no trouble with reason, just unreasonable people, of which you are.  Oh I did say I was not going to address any more.  Guess I goofed! 
Guess you did, because you keep coming back for more!!  :)
 
May 20, 2008, 2:41 pm CDT

05/15 Psychic Dramas

Quote From: PennyLane78

Yes exactly, thank you.

I do empathize with evangelicals...however, it's not as if anyone who has internet access or lives in the US doesn't know what they believe....we all know what they believe, they believe we'll all burn in hell unless we accept Jesus. There is no need to come to a message board and say something that people ALREADY KNOW who are grieving about the loss of a loved one.


That's why I've rarely share my religious beliefs on these boards. I prefer doing that one-on-one with people I know are in a receptive frame of mind. And, I can guage when I've said enough.
 
May 20, 2008, 6:54 pm CDT

Use and ABUSE of the supernatural...

Quote From: memphismaggie

 

 I am an avid fan of the Dr. Phil show. One of the main reasons is that Dr. Phil is so "normal", down-to-earth, and sensible. Common sense rules on the show and he never lets anything get out of hand. Unlike some other talk shows that have become like three-ring circuses of dysfunctional people going out of control for entertainment value, I've always looked on this show as one that addresses everyday, real problems that people can relate to and learn from.  Resorting to the paranormal and psychics seems rather like sensationalism and I feel disappointed with Dr. Phil. I just hpe this isn't a sign of things to come. Just had to state my opinion.      Respectfully, D.

PHIL, PHIL, PHIL, can you see me shaking my head?  I am a suburban housewife and fan of the show.  I DVR it daily.  I'll get right to it..... I was really expecting you to nail this psychic guy with his southern no nonsense charm!  I eagerly waited for you to tell this guy he was "dumber than a bag of hammers"!  YIKES!  Sadly, you didn't. 

 

Listen, I believe good and evil exists, no question.  I believe a person can communicate with a Spirit God through prayer, worship, etc.  I believe a person can communicate with evil as well.  HOWEVER, I do not for a second believe that we can communicate with the dead.  I thought you knew that Phil.  It sure looked like ROBIN knew it!  The look on her face was priceless.

 

It sickened me to watch this man act like he was hearing from the dead, especially to your audience members.  He asked them incredibly "leading" questions.  And then his response to these hurting people were so generic!  The truth is that the "New Age" thinking is still thriving and I thought it was dangerous for SPIRITUALLY HUNGRY people to watch you kind of just sit there and promote him and his book.

 

Wow!  I hope you can clarify your position (via TV) because I can not believe that you wrap your brain around this guy's beliefs and teachings.  Unfortunately, I'm fearful that you do subscribe to this man's beliefs otherwise you wouldn't have promoted his book.  (((Afterall, you didn't promote the guy who had a website on how to get sex earlier this season.  So why would you promote the Psychic's book?))) 

 

Respectfully shaking my head still, Deni F.

 

 
May 20, 2008, 7:00 pm CDT

Open Minds?

Quote From: lcb81860

Many people are skeptical about psychic people/powers...personally, I believe that there are those  some, if not all who possess these abilities; call them perception, intuition. premonitions or just that plain-old "gut-feeling" one gets at times.  I'm extremely intrigued  by this topic and can't wait to watch this show! :)

 

OXO
Lucy

Open minds can be healthy.  However, sometimes when someone it too open minded, they are willing to accept anything and everything that is "poured" into them whether it is truth or lies. 

 

I do believe in good and evil spirits.  But I don't believe the dead are living spirits.  Sorry.  Just my Christian beliefs.

 

Deni F.

 
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