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Topic : 05/16 Spanking Scandals

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Created on : Friday, May 09, 2008, 03:59:52 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Is physical punishment a necessary form of discipline or child abuse? First up, Monica says her five children bite, kick and talk back, and she often has to resort to beatings with a belt. Monica admits she made her four oldest children miss meals and tied their hands together until they learned to like each other. Her husband, Marshall, says Monica disciplines in anger and admits that he also hits their children out of frustration. Renowned pediatrician Dr. Jim Sears says what Monica is doing is not discipline, but abuse. Can he help the frazzled mom bring some peace to her chaotic household? Then, Elizabeth sent her 12-year-old son, Joey, to a school with a corporal punishment policy and was shocked when he came home with what she says were severe bruises. She says Joey’s beating was so severe she had to pull him out of school, and now she’s worried he won’t ever go back. How can Elizabeth and her son move past the shame? Plus, Dr. Phil hears from both sides of the spanking debate. Keila is a teacher who believes in corporal punishment and has even paddled a few students herself. Peggy is an anti-spanking advocate who says states that allow spanking also have the highest number of incarcerations and school drop-outs. What does Dr. Phil think? Join the discussion.

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May 10, 2008, 1:05 pm CDT

Spanking VS Time Out

Quote From: lovelites

There is a difference between spanking VS Time Out. No child should be hit by any teacher or authority in the schools. Even parents hit too much at times thinking it is okay. What does this teach? Time out seems to work for many kids and they think about what they did. A lot of kids get sent to the prinipal's office or detention after school.

  I bet parents don't respect their children and these teachers as well don't have respect sometimes for the kids. I know full handedly about this as 2 of my teachers had no respect for me at all. I was appauld. I am sure they are old   and retried by now. This was over 40 years ago.

   What does spaning teach?  What does it really teach? Nothing. Parents hit sometimes out of their frusttation. Yes, they are human, too, and when the kid kicks back, the parent wonders where thye learned it from. A little honor to the child just as the parent wants honor, too. it works both ways.

 
May 10, 2008, 1:25 pm CDT

Spanking

I don't think I would want others to spank my children because when I spank I know I will not go overboard.  I heard once that the first swat is for the child, any after is for the parent's anger, fear or hurt.  I would count to three and if they didn't listen, they chose the consequence which is one swat on the bottom.  Grounding and time outs didn't work with my kids but a swat on the hind end did.  They were good kids and well liked from everyone who met them.  Making children missing meals, tying their hands together and using a board or belt is abusive.  My parents used a belt when we were young and I didn't like it so when I had children that was one of the things I wouldn't allow.  I would point out also that even though my siblings and I were spanked with a belt, not any of us are violent, incarcerated and three of the 4 gradutated high school, one is now a social worker with a bachlors in criminal science, two are Electricians who are partners with my husband in a company and I raised my children and worked as an assistant director of a day care, volunteered years with the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts and taught Sunday school and planned and taught Bible School while my kids were growing up.  I know children who never were never spanked even when they really needed it who grew up to be selfish, horrible adults. 
 
May 10, 2008, 1:31 pm CDT

Spanking?????

I don't know why our society is so sensitive about how people being up their children. It is not the teachers job to punish the children but should be done by the parents. My parents broke wooden spoons and wooden yard sticks on my brothers and myself let alone their hands. I DO NOT think this is abuse! If the child deserves it, it should be done. Children recover from that within hours but they do remember why they were punished in that manner and will unlikely do it again. If you people think the kids will turn out bat, you are wrong. My brothers and myself are all married, have kids and are succesful in our work. We punish our children in the same manner that we were brought up. Some of these kids are in college and are doing extremely well.There is a time and place for this and should not be called abuse.
 
May 10, 2008, 1:35 pm CDT

Thou Shall not beat!

I very much know what it is like to get beaten with a belt.

 

My mother used her "Girl Scout Belt" on us all the time.  I still remember what it looked like.  Green with gold trefoils across it.  We were petrified of that thing. 

 

My brother Steven got it the worse though.  I think that was because my mother was taking her anger from his father out on him.     He is now 50 and still won't speak to her.  I don't blame him! 

 

I know now that she is regretting and ashamed of what she did.

 

When we were growing up, he use to hide the belt on her, but she always said that when she found it he would get it double, and he did!!.

 

I remember one day standing on the stairs going upstairs and looking at my mother and asking the Lord:  "Why did you give me a mother like that?"   I couldn't stand her.

 

I always said I would never use a belt on any of my children and I didn't!!  

 

I wish it would have been considered child abuse back then (1960-1970's) because you bet I would have reported her!!   If my brother did she would have been in prision for life!

 

It is amazing that me and mom turned out to be best friends.

 

This is for any of you out there that are using a belt.  Remember your kids will remember every moment of it!

 
May 10, 2008, 2:01 pm CDT

Perhaps it won't have to come to a spanking, if you "teach them while they are young"

Quote From: jamandkim

Spanking in our society is done usually as a last resort because parents are frustrated.  If we were more consistent with our kids and held ourselves (and then them) to the standard of respect, kindness and honesty, we would have less frustration and more results.  Kids DO what they SEE, not what we tell them!!!  "Spanking" or chastisement is a useful tool in a toolbox full of options - loss of privileges, reflective time outs, acts of taking personal responsibility, offering restitution, and others - for parents who are actively pursuing the training of their child's heart.  It should never be used by a mom or dad who reactively parent in frustration. 

 

"Spanking" is a very private and serious event.  To approach the child that God entrusted to your care and responsibility with physical correction MUST be done in love and brokenness with the big picture in mind for the child - training them for the future.  It should never happen in public or with a highly emotionally charged parent...then it is just striking out in anger...not correcting the child...this is abuse because it damages the child and the relationship they have with their parent.

 

I ache for the parents and children alike who are frustrated, wounded and hopeless about their relationships with each other.  I grew up in a home with parents who struck out every time they were angry - usually because I made a mistake that embarrassed them or infringed upon their time.  By the grace of God, I have learned a different way and my home is full of grace and joy.  My children have been spanked when they have committed certain offenses but they are aware of their choices.  If I am angry or upset, we wait until everyone is ready for the spanking...including me!  I have three children - ages 7, 10, and 11.  I haven't spanked my 10 or 11 year old for so long I don't remember the last time.  My 7 year old still has the occasional spanking but there are really so many more useful options for training her now...losing freedoms or privileges hurt her far more at her age than a spanking!!! 

 

I am so thankful that I had that tool available when they were younger and that I learned to do it with love and compassion.  I am also thankful that there are so many other options as they get older that bring repentance and heart change in my them more effectively.

 

 

 

Kids can be your downfall if you don't teach them young

How to mind their manners, how to control their tongue.

 

If you fail to put your foot down, they walk all over you

And show you no respect, no matter what you try to do.

 

They need to know who thie boss is, so don't let them forget

That you're the captain of the ship,.and respect they must learn yet.

 

Don't let them be your downfall. Life is hard enough.

Let them know that you're in charge, and if need be, get tough.

 

They will look up to you when they are older with the respect shown

And because you taught them, while they were young...

 

They take pride in the way they have grown.

 

 

Pg. 33 of my book "When the LIghts Are On But Nobody's Home"

  

 

 

  

 

 
May 10, 2008, 2:34 pm CDT

05/16 Spanking Scandals

Well, I can tell you what my personal experience was with spanking. When I had my first child almost 27 years ago, everyone I knew spanked. It never occurred to me to not spank. I thought it was what a parent did. When I began to dicipline my daughter by spanking, I didn't feel comfortable with it. I felt very confused also. All of my life, kids were spanked, period. I changed my mind about spanking and began to try other methods, which I found worked as well as spanking did anyway. I can remember the strange looks I got from people when I said I wasn't so keen on spanking. What I felt was, " I am hitting my child. This don't feel right.". I honestly found that being consistent and talking about why things were not to be done, and being patient and sometimes physically removing my kid from danger, got the same result as spanking. I didn't really see any results from spanking, no better results than trying something that didn't involve hitting.

As far as teachers spanking, the teachers I knew when my kids were in school would not have been interested in spanking the kids. As far as corporal punishment goes, the principal of my high school used to paddle the boys who misbehaved. And IMO a kid in high school is too old for corporal punishment. And I don't believe that the teachers or principals should be able to spank the kids period.

 
May 10, 2008, 2:55 pm CDT

RE: Spanking Scandals

I was spanked as a child but only by my parents (and maybe my grandparents). I wasn't a bad child but I was an only child who "got into things". I turned out okay. I do remember one boy in the third grade who was "paddled" almost everyday of that school year by either the teacher herself or the principal.  The kid was definitely a problem child but I think it was for the attention. He came from a big family so he was probably neglected. He acted out his "loneliness" in the classroom. From a third graders' perspective, it was comical - happy it wasn't the rest of us. As an adult, it was cruel. He may have deserved it once or twice but not as frequently as it occurred. In today's society, there isn't any discipline in the schools anymore. Heck, there seems to be very little discipline in the home anymore. Kids may throw legal papers for abuse at them in later years for a spanking. Why do you think God gave us padded bottoms? A good old-fashioned butt spanking never hurt, let alone killed, anyone. Bring back spankings and discipline, be it from the parents (who need more training in their duties) or a teacher, if neccessary. It certainly can't hurt as long as it's only the bottom that is being hit!
 
May 10, 2008, 3:14 pm CDT

05/16 Spanking Scandals

Quote From: quilt3311

 There is a huge difference between a spanking and abuse.   When a child is small an open handed  smack on the "well padded" backside gets their attention.   I would NEVER allow a teacher to spank a child,  they would have to contact ME and I would handle the situation.   Also spanking should NOT be done while angry.   A calm stern voice and a tap on the rear (when the voice didn't work) always worked with my children.   They are all grown and even the grand children are grown (last a Senior in High School)  All have turned out to be very productive citizens and thankfully, the kids have applied the palm of the hand to the well padded area when needed.   Consistancy is most important.   As they grew older, privileges were revoked.   None have been arrested, or even had a speeding ticket.   Seems like a tap on the rear didn't hurt any of them.  
After 25 years away, one even moved back to the area and bought the house across the street.   This too works as we both respect each others privacy.   
 By the way have you ever watch a mother cat teach her kittens?   Observe nature and you will see that a swat educates.  After the kitten complies with what was required, the mama cat will wash them and nurse them.   I've seen the mother cat take them to the middle of the road and wait for a car to come, the order to MOVE is given before the car is  close and the kittens learn real quick to scoot out of the way.  Nature is amazing if you learn to watch.  

Different disciplines work with different children but each must be with constancy and love.  I never believed in physical discipline but have NEVER considered a swat on the butt or slap the hand of a 2 year old as physical punishment.  I consider that getting their attention.  My daughter is 33 and I spanked her once in her life and I told her before I did it why I was doing it and that I wanted her to remember it.  She was so scarred by it that when I asked her about it she couldn't even remember it.  I don't believe in slapping, spanking, hitting, or whatever other word you want to use, when done in anger or done to embarrass.  My daughter never had her face slapped but did have her mouth washed out with soap once.  I guess that's considered abuse.  I watch my grandchildren and different punishments work with different children.  One has a listening problem and a tap (not hit or slap but a tap)on the top of his head is needed to get his attention so he will listen to me.  When he gets out of control and needs punishment, I've found that hugging and holding his arms to his side will give him time to gain control and then we can talk about what he's done.  The other one I can use time out and have him sit in a chair.  So see, the punishments have to be geared for each child.  No one technique works for all children, even in the same family, so the parents or caregivers are better equiped to determine what will work for each child.  If a spanking, done with love and not anger, is what works, then isn't the important thing that the child feels secure and loved than to have a few spankings over the course of a lifetime. 

 

Please notice, I'm not talking about daily spankings.  That's not acceptable nor is any spanking done in excess.  One or two swats on a clothed bottom with an open hand should not be considered abuse or beating.  But to spank a child on a bare bottom or too many times to count is child abuse and should be treated as such. 

 

Just an observation-the people I know the the worst acting children (the ones who can't control themselves, are beligerent, mean, with the worst behavior) belong to the people who are the most against physical punishment.  My thought is some people are against any sort of real parenting.  It's easier to let the children do what they want than for the adult to be a parent.  And because of it, children are out of control.  And thats sad for the children.

 
May 10, 2008, 3:39 pm CDT

05/16 Spanking Scandals

Spanking...... as a mother of four and now a grandmother of three, I think I still believe that it is an individual child's personality that you have to take into consideration. For the most part I don't believe you need to resort to physical punishment but I do think that my views have changed over the years too. From my first child who was a very easy child, to my next two that were much more difficult to get through to. Then my last child who still lives at home (14) again an easy going child. If I as much as raise my voice or express my disappointment or need to get to the point of having to say I'm/we're going to have to take away something or some of his privileges he turns himself around in no time. My two middle children were far from that, they did anything and everything no matter what you said or did. We even went to therapy, used the schools for resources and they still ended up taking the wrong road in life. Even therapist felt we were doing our best and handling things (including spanking) the best way possible.

My oldest graduated went to college and married her high sweet heart and now has three beautiful children of her own. She never did drugs or drank and at this point our last child (son) is following her footsteps. He is very involved sports and school and has always been in honors. Prefers to do things with the family than hang with a group of kids. I will say that my other two (middle children) were adopted but I have them since they were both infants, 4 months and 15 months. They are biological brother and sister and my niece and nephew that I and my ex-husband adopted due to their biological  mother not being capable of raising them.

 
May 10, 2008, 3:46 pm CDT

Spanking

I don't believe in beating your child but I don't have a problem with spanking them.  I spanked my grandson with his blue jeans shorts on and I was the one that ended up with the bruise on my hand.  Their are just some kids that don't need to be spanked and then there are others that just won't listen unless you get their attention with a hand on the bottom.  I grew up having my a$$ tore up.  My mom even broke a leather belt in half beating my a$$.................that was abuse.  I even as a teenager stepped in when my older cousin was beating his stepkids and was going to beat my little brother, I would not let him touch my brother.  Now that I'm older I did deserve some of those a$$ whoopings.  I was a very mouthy kid.  Actually as an adult I still can be I just know when to be and no to be.
 
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