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Topic : 05/16 Spanking Scandals

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Created on : Friday, May 09, 2008, 03:59:52 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Is physical punishment a necessary form of discipline or child abuse? First up, Monica says her five children bite, kick and talk back, and she often has to resort to beatings with a belt. Monica admits she made her four oldest children miss meals and tied their hands together until they learned to like each other. Her husband, Marshall, says Monica disciplines in anger and admits that he also hits their children out of frustration. Renowned pediatrician Dr. Jim Sears says what Monica is doing is not discipline, but abuse. Can he help the frazzled mom bring some peace to her chaotic household? Then, Elizabeth sent her 12-year-old son, Joey, to a school with a corporal punishment policy and was shocked when he came home with what she says were severe bruises. She says Joey’s beating was so severe she had to pull him out of school, and now she’s worried he won’t ever go back. How can Elizabeth and her son move past the shame? Plus, Dr. Phil hears from both sides of the spanking debate. Keila is a teacher who believes in corporal punishment and has even paddled a few students herself. Peggy is an anti-spanking advocate who says states that allow spanking also have the highest number of incarcerations and school drop-outs. What does Dr. Phil think? Join the discussion.

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May 11, 2008, 4:25 pm CDT

05/16 Spanking Scandals

Quote From: mymamasdrama

I agree that way too many children are abused today.  "Back in the day" my father was hit on the knuckles with a ruler by his teachers.  By the time I was in school, that had stopped.  I don't think anyone other than parents should spank a child.  The problem with todays kids is when the principle calls in the parents, usually the parents DEFEND the childs behavior, or will make excuses for the child.  Neither of which holds the child accountable for their actions.  It also shows disrespect for authority figures bc it's EXACTLY what the parents are doing by taking up for the child.

 

I was whipped when I was a kid, (I'm 38) and yes, I do spank my own children.  Unfortunately, there is a fine line between spanking and abuse.  When I was 15, I got caught drinking (LITERALLY) a sip of alcohol at school.  When my father was called (a single man raising 2 kids on his own), he told the principle he would be picking me up at the end of the day.  I have to say I was petrified, and with good reason bc I KNEW I screwed up!  When he picked me up, he took me straight to a walk-in-clinic and made me take a urine test. When we got home he told me to wait for him in his room.  He whipped me 3 times with a 2.5 foot wooden paddle.  I couldn't sit for over a week, and I knew I deserved it.  Did I hate him at the time? Of coarse.  Did I think it was abuse, NO WAY!  Come to find out, a few days later the urine test came back negative bc I only took a sip.  He felt terrible for the whipping I got, but I knew he did what he had to do for me to learn my lesson.  I'm proud to say that to this day, I've been married for 7 years, and my husband has NEVER seen me drunk. 

 

What ever happened to the days when we were sent out to look for a "switch" when we misbehaved?  Back in those days, we respected BOTH our parents and other authorities.  These days, kids hit their teachers, parents, and have no respect for the law.  I CAN'T be the only one that sees a horrible trend here!  I'm not about to preach, but even the Bible says spanking is a form of disciplinel  Our children need to be aware that there are consequesnces for their actions.  And those consequenses need to be effective!

 

As for my own children, I keep a wooden "paint stick" that is easily accessible.  And when my daughter will not listen & gets out of control, all I have to do is pull it out, and she immediately snaps back to good behavior.  I don't have to pull it out often.  But when I do, I walk her to the bathroom and if I have to calm myself down, I take a minute & give myself a "time out" while she waits for me, so that I don't go in there angry.  I sit on a stool in front of her to get on her eye level and I TALK to her.  After I explain why her bahavior is not acceptable (sometimes for the hundredth time), I lay her over my lap, and tap her once or twice on the leg.  She cries for just a few seconds, I stand her up, she gives me a big hug, she tells me she loves me (and of coarse I say it back to her), and we walk out the bathroom.  I usually get good behavior the rest of the day.  I couldn't ask for anything more out of a preschooler!  My son is only 15 months old, but I plan on using the same technique with him.

 

NO ONE deserves to be abused, esp the defenseless children of this world.  We all get angry as parents, and we're in denial if we say otherwise.  It's HOW you react to that anger that the child will mimic.  Discipline raises children to be respectful, responsible adults.  Abused children are rasied to abuse others.  There is a HUGE difference between the 2!!!! Too many children are running the home nowadays...Parents need to step in and take control once again.  They are our responsibility at least till they are 18!  And there is a REASON we are liable!  It's because they are not capable of making certain decisions on their own.  No one ever said parenting was easy, it's the toughest job I've ever had, but it's also the most rewarding.  So please love and respect your children! 

If you're in the process of spanking your child and explaining why her behavior is not acceptable (sometimes for the 100th time) what good is the spanking accomplishing? I'm talking about the 100th time part. Yes, I have children-grown. I started out spanking my first child and found myself uncomfortable doing it. Yes, I had to explain over and over again that something was not acceptable. #1-I did not feel comfortable hitting my child. I started out spanking because I thought that's what a parent did. #2- I got as good results when I stopped spanking because with or without spanking-I had to tell my children repeatedly that certain behaviors were not acceptable.

 

I'm not saying that I think spanking ruins children. I'm just relating my own personal experience. I just didn't feel right when I hit my kid. It felt wrong. To me. So I tried other means. And because I had the experience of spanking, and then the experience of not spanking, I can say, in my personal experience, I had as much success without spanking as with spanking.

 

I think it's just too simplified to say that what is wrong with our kids today is that they are not spanked. There are a lot more variables involved.

 

And with consistency and patience, I found that in many instances, when my kids were misbehaving all I had to do was give them a look and they stopped. Not because they thought I was going to spank them, but because I am thier mother and I was with them 24-7 and they knew I had repeatedly explained to them what was acceptable and what was not acceptable. When mine were little they thought I was all knowing and  all seeing.

 

What I would ask is this, how do you know that spanking is the answer if you've never tried anything else?You might be surprised. If I personally, had not been uncomfortable with it in the beginning I too, would have felt that it is the only answer. As, I said in the beginning, I thought spanking was what parents did. I was hit and switched. All of the people I had always known were hit and/or switched. Some of them were beaten. I didn't see anything wrong with it. That is, until it was my own child that was on the receiving end. I had no idea that I would feel the way I did about it. It made me look at it in a different way and wonder if there was another way.

 
May 11, 2008, 4:27 pm CDT

No Way!

I spanked my kids (now grown) because that's the way I was raised, but since have seen the light.  It really is not necessary, but it takes a lot more work and patience on the parents' part to put a child back in time out  repeatedly until they realize you are not giving in.  Older children need to have all their privileges taken away and earn them back one by one (I learned this from Dr. Phil).  If any of you could see yourselves spanking your child on a recording, It would make you cry and vow to never spank them again.  It was shocking to me that more than 60% of those taking the poll said it was OK for teachers to spank children.  No way, never, ever!!
 
May 11, 2008, 4:49 pm CDT

Disclipine

I believe spanking should be last resort or to stop a dangerous activity, for example if a toddler was about to stick a fork in the electrical socket I would smack the hand to knock out the fork . As a kindergarten teacher for a few months here was my disclipine chart bottom up

1-2 Warnings
Physical ie do 5 push ups backtalk add 2 more
Loss of recess time- a check =10 minutes
3 checks parents are called
Positive Conotation I used this once as a substitute teacher when a student started break dancing after lunch and wouldn't follow the command to sit down so I said"Gee you are really good I think I'll leave a note for your teacher so you can perform in front of her and your absent classmates so nobody misses the show" That response got the whole class laughing-which was my goal and the boy stopped break dancing and sat down
so Positive Conotarion means making a joke of an insult or criticism or situation.
I had no problems after the first day with disclipine. The first day all the students wanted to read at the same time so I devised a technique where I assigned each student a letter and at the beginning of the day I wrote the reading order on the board, while a student was reading with me other students were doing seatwork
 
May 11, 2008, 5:36 pm CDT

spankings

I feel there is a difference between a spanking and a beating. What this lady and her husband are doing is a beating but open across the butt no weapon is okay. I grew up in a very abusive home and my step father started off with what they are doing- tieing us up, spanking with a belt across the bare bottom and as we got older the beatings got worse. Has it ocured to these parents that with their children continueing to act this way that their forms of punishment is obviously not working and maybe if they were more loving to their children  the behavior would stop. I am a mother of three and I do spank my children as a last resort when nothing else has worked again it's open hand one or two swats across the bottom, nothing to hurt but enough to catch attention. My children are very well behaved and I might have to spank them once every few months. As for parents that don't spank I feel it is more out of fear of what will happen if they disipling their children than just alowing them to run a muck.
 
May 11, 2008, 8:53 pm CDT

school's are not parents

Well I am definatly interested in seeing this particular show, as no up here in Canada has to worry about this situation ever happening-it's illegal up here in all provinces, but I am curious to hear both sides of the story.

As far as I am concerned at this point in my life, having a beautiful little girl, I would NEVER allow a teacher to spank or physically disapline my kids for a few reasons.  1.Although there needs to be boundaries at school, it is not their right OR obligation to determine if that level of dicipline is required for the fault at hand. 2. It's our jobs as parents to teach our children the importance of rules, boundaries and proper respect of authority.  When a teacher has to be the one to reiterate those things, it's wrong.  that is not their job, nor should it EVER be expected for a teacher to correct something that should have been taught at home. 3.Teachers are not babysitters/Parents, they are teachers-teachers teach, encourage and inspire-they do not, and should not discapline to that level-they should only need to remind and correct. 4.what could a child do that is so bad as to spank, paddle, etc?  And again, how are we to put that burden to know when it's appropirate or not on a teacher?  It's your kid, sit them down at home and talk with them.

Kids need boundaries, if you are not giving them at home they will seek them out in school, the world, or anywhere they happen to be.  YOu are setting them up for failure by not giving them boundaries and rules-esentially you are punishing them for your own lack of parenting. 

 

As adults we have to look at the childs behavior and ask ourselves if what we have done up that point as parents has helped them or hindered them, and then using that as a guage, determine what is appropriate-perhaps a good swat on the bum is a good thing, perhaps it's not-but only YOU as that kids PARENT/GAURDIAN can make that call-it's not the teachers responsibility.  And NO ONE can judge a person who does spank their kids.  If you are not in that house everyday, dealing with that child, you can not be sure there is a better way-maybe their is, and I am firm believer in trying everything you can BEFORE spanking, but that fact is, that everything else before that point won't always work-in theroy it should, but all kids are different, and they all relate differently.  If you're not a spanker, and your kids understand and respect rules and boundaries GOOD FOR YOU!!!  I tip my hat.  If you are a spanker and your kids undertand and respect rules and boundaries GOOD FOR YOU!!!  As long as the outcome is a heathly understanding of these things, and it's not being done in anger or frustration-I don't see any harm in either parenting tecnique. I was spanked once in my entire childhood, by my step-dad, that's all it took to understand that I should stop lying-it's not good.  Well here I am today, mentally stable, emotionaly balanced, and not a liar!  Imagine that!  Is what he did abuse, not as far as I can tell.  It's all about getting your kids to healthy state of mind, being balanced and able to fucntion in the world to the best of their ability-whatever gets them there-sports, music, a spanking, time outs, whatever-As long as they reach their potential.

 
May 11, 2008, 11:56 pm CDT

05/16 Spanking Scandals

I am just curious to see of the many comments posted just  how many of you are parents ?
 
May 12, 2008, 3:53 am CDT

on spanking

Dear Dr. Phil,

I believe in spanking as a disciplinary form.  I first try to reason on the childs level explaining the behavior is unacceptable. That's a warning. If the behavior continues, then the naughty corner takes place. This action is generally enough, but if the child's behavior is posing a danger or threat, then why not a good swat on the bottom to get their attention? For example, my five year old ran from us in the grocery store parking lot where fortunately there was no on coming traffic. This could have gotten her run over. We popped her bottom and  told her what could have happened. We certainly did not concider this to be abusive but it was intended to wake her up and get her attention that all parking lots can be dangerous if  she doesn't stay  with big people.

 
May 12, 2008, 5:24 am CDT

throw away kids

Quote From: jamandkim

Spanking in our society is done usually as a last resort because parents are frustrated.  If we were more consistent with our kids and held ourselves (and then them) to the standard of respect, kindness and honesty, we would have less frustration and more results.  Kids DO what they SEE, not what we tell them!!!  "Spanking" or chastisement is a useful tool in a toolbox full of options - loss of privileges, reflective time outs, acts of taking personal responsibility, offering restitution, and others - for parents who are actively pursuing the training of their child's heart.  It should never be used by a mom or dad who reactively parent in frustration. 

 

"Spanking" is a very private and serious event.  To approach the child that God entrusted to your care and responsibility with physical correction MUST be done in love and brokenness with the big picture in mind for the child - training them for the future.  It should never happen in public or with a highly emotionally charged parent...then it is just striking out in anger...not correcting the child...this is abuse because it damages the child and the relationship they have with their parent.

 

I ache for the parents and children alike who are frustrated, wounded and hopeless about their relationships with each other.  I grew up in a home with parents who struck out every time they were angry - usually because I made a mistake that embarrassed them or infringed upon their time.  By the grace of God, I have learned a different way and my home is full of grace and joy.  My children have been spanked when they have committed certain offenses but they are aware of their choices.  If I am angry or upset, we wait until everyone is ready for the spanking...including me!  I have three children - ages 7, 10, and 11.  I haven't spanked my 10 or 11 year old for so long I don't remember the last time.  My 7 year old still has the occasional spanking but there are really so many more useful options for training her now...losing freedoms or privileges hurt her far more at her age than a spanking!!! 

 

I am so thankful that I had that tool available when they were younger and that I learned to do it with love and compassion.  I am also thankful that there are so many other options as they get older that bring repentance and heart change in my them more effectively.

 

 

WE DON'T SEEM TO CARE ABOUT CHILDREN  ANY MORE.   WE DON'T CARE HOW MUCH SEX OR VIOLENCE IS PUT BEFORE THEM IN THE MEDIA, HOW LONG THEY'RE GONE FROM HOME WHILE THEIR PARENTS ARE WORKING, NOR WHAT THEY ARE EATING.  HOW OFTEN DO WE ASK OUR CHILDREN IF THEY ARE TIRED FROM THERE LONG DAY?   WE DO KNOW HOW TIRED WE ARE AND THEY PROBABLY LEFT HOME THE SAME TIME AS WE DID.    THATS WHY I CALL OUR CHILDREN THROW AWAY KIDS, NO-ONE SEEMS TO CARE. YOU HEAR MORE CONCERN FOR HOW ANIMALS ARE TREATED.   TAKING A SPANKING, SO FOR AS TO LEAVE BRUISES, IS WRONG.   BEING CRUEL TO ANYTHING OR ANYONE IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!!      IF YOU HAVE TO SPANK AND SOMETIMES WE DO, TO KEEP THEM SAFE,  GET A LITTLE LIMBER GREEN SWITCH ABOUT SIX INCHES LONG AND SWITCH THEIR LITTLE BARE LEG ABOUT ONE OR TWO TIMES NO MORE THAN THAT.  OLDER CHILDREN SHOULD BE TOLD YES OR NO. WHAT EVER ANSWER YOU GIVE STICK TO IT.  THEIR IS ALWAYS A GADGET OR A PLACE THEY WANT TO GO YOU CAN TAKE AWAY FROM THEM.  NEVER GIVE OUT PUNISHMENT THAT LAST TOO LONG THAT YOU CAN'T KEEP.  IN OTHER WORDS DON'T MAKE IT FOR A WEEK OR MORE.  RIGHT OFF THE CHILD LOSES FAITH BECAUSE OUR LIVES ARE TOO BUSY FOR         THAT LONG OF PUNISHMENT.  DON'T' MAKE THEM LIFERS!!!!
 
May 12, 2008, 5:32 am CDT

Spanking

I have 3 brothers and 1 sister. My parents spanked me and my siblings. I am so thankful they did. They stuck a fear in me. Not that I'm scared of them, but I grew up on the right path.. They would always tell us before we went out anywhere to be good... 'or else I'll whollup you!!' That wasn't just a threat.. If we misbehaved ever in public, my parents would spank us in public!! So, we knew that if we stepped out of line, or if we were disrespectful to anyone, that we would get a spank, so we behaved. I'm all up for spanking. I will spank my children!!
 
May 12, 2008, 7:25 am CDT

Spanking

I was raised in a home where my mother was the disciplinarian and my father just withdrew and let her handle how we (I have 1 older brother  7 years older, and a sister 9 years older...I'm the "baby" of the family) were taught "right from wrong".  My mother's idea of discipline was hitting, slapping, kicking and verbally abusing all of us from childhood as a form of "control".  I grew up hating my mother for the way she raised us, and vowed that I would NEVER resort to her methods of punishment/control for discipline.  My sister feels the same as I do, and we have talked personally many times about how much we disliked our mother and her method of behavioral control.  My brother has distanced himself from my mother for the last 20 years, and she has no idea why he no longer calls or visits her, nor will she understand it now since she believes she raised us in the "right" way.

 

It is very difficult to move past the childhood hurts of emotional and physical abuse and to this day I'm still working through it all after a few years of counseling.  My mother is now in a nursing home with moderate dementia, so she does not remember the ways she abused her children, and thinks of herself as a "good" mother.  The one positive from her abuse was that I learned self-control in order not to resort to physical & emotional means of "controlling" my children, and when I did spank my children it was in anger, and not productive at all.  I had to learn how to discipline firmly w/o anger and physical aggression.

 

So as a parent from a verbally/physically abusive upbringing, I believe that spanking your own children (or another parent's child as in a school system) is demoralizing and emotionally damaging, and therefore, is NEVER the right way to discpline.  And I'm not a perfect parent, but I learned from the past abuse how NOT to parent my children as they were growing up.  And hopefully I did something right because although my oldest was diagnosed as mildly oppostional defiant disordered, he is in the top 5 of his graduating class academically, and received numerous scholarships to attend college.  He's never had a traffic violation or been caught with drugs, alcohol or even smoking.  If he and his girlfriend are engaging in sex, then I know that he's using protection.  My youngest is at 13, a "typical" teen, but we still have a loving and honest relationship.  I'm not a perfect parent, but I think I did ok raising my 2 boys with their father, even though we divorced amicably when the boys were 11 & 16, and they have both accepted each of our significant others and call them "step-mom" & "step-dad" to their friends.

 

I do not believe that I could have had well adjusted children if I had raised them with spanking as a form of discipline......I know in my own case that my abusive background only bred resentment and distrust of my mother and has taken me many years to forgive her.

 

Katie

 
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