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Topic : 05/26 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp, Part 2

Number of Replies: 145
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Created on : Friday, May 23, 2008, 07:35:18 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil continues his work with four families who say their kids are out of control. They moved out of their madhouse and into The Dr. Phil House to learn how to end the chaos and constant battles, and create a peaceful, loving and happy home. The parents and kids role-play with puppets, but when two kids misbehave, will their exercise become an exercise in futility? After Noah and his mom have another fight, Dr. Phil sits down with them privately to broker peace. Will anger and resentment give way to compassion and forgiveness? Next, all the kids participate in an experiment called Temptation Table – a table is covered with candy, cookies, cell phones and toys. Can all the kids be trusted around Dr. Phil’s Temptation Table? You won’t believe what happens when their parents leave the room! Then, Dr. Phil shows the parents home camera footage of poor parenting situations in their home. Will the parents stop what they’re doing and become a calm, united front for their kids, providing consistent, predictable consequences to bad behavior? One mom’s question has Dr. Phil wondering if he’s wasting his time. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.



Discuss your views on discipline here.

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May 26, 2008, 2:13 pm CDT

Exactly

Quote From: roaringredhead

Great show!  Dr. Phil, it was a little cold when you told the parents that you were waisting your time when discussing why their kids were exhibiting bad behavior.  As a viewer I got it immediately when you were going down the list as of why and providing winning parenting techniques.   But when emotions are high and you are actually on that chair looking into all those cameras...a few examples wouldn't have hurt.  You could say, "well Wendy, Noah does this because of that."  Of course, you may have counselors or staff already working one on one with the families off camera.  I know we don't see everything behind the scenes.

If these parents knew HOW to parent, they wouldn't have been asking Dr Phil "What do we do?"

Dr. Phil needs to give some one, two, three examples. He's too general in his answers.

 
May 26, 2008, 2:30 pm CDT

Noah...Child Control Freak

Noah wants to be completely in control. He wants to control the direction of conversation, discipline, what have you. Mom tried to talk to Noah and when she brought up her concerns in relation to his concerns, he accused her immeadiately of starting a fight. If he isn't in control, she is the problem. He wants her fixed, but he doesn't want to change. He needs control taken away from him completely.
 
May 26, 2008, 2:45 pm CDT

05/26 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp, Part 2

Quote From: ncrainydays

 I agree parents are in charge but when you have a couple of these children, I think a good spanking would do the trick or take some iitem they really cherish away from them...  Dr. Phil went to great lengths to tell the parents their faults.  I thought by the end of the showt he would reward the children that obeyed their parents during the drawing session...... But NO he just came down on the parent because they didn't say they would get a reward if they obeyed....  Give me a break.....do we have to reward evertime we ask a child to do something?????  He should have taken Noah and Ethan and given them a fake lolly and put them in all day timeout.  Noah is physically abusive to everyone and it's not just his Mother but he has been suspended from school.  The kid has an anger problem.  Ethan's mouth is enough to drive anyone crazy....he thinks he is so cute and funny, I would fix that funny....  OK Dr. Phil, you reprimanded the parents, now next week lets see you reward the children that obeyed the rules at the table with some of those cool items.  Let Noah and Ethan see that their mouthy abusive behavior will NOT be rewarded except with a long time out.  Noah tried to antagonize all the boys.  I agree the parents should be in control, but some of these kids I would like to keep for about one week.  My parents spanked me, and my kids were spanked, they have awesome professions and a great family.....  I just feel so sorry for Noah's Mother, she has not had time to grieve the loss of her daughter........where is the Dad.......let him take Noah for a few weeks til Mom gets help with her grief.  Why doesn't Dr. Phil check to see if Noah's problems were before the daughter died....maybe this kid just has major anger and domination issues...  Ethan just needs tape on his mouth. Sorry Dr. Phil, I agree with what you said to the parents, but NOT enough punishment for some of those children......  it's so obivious that these two boys are masters at lying and what fake tears..  Think a little out of your box and help the parent but punish the kids also........I hope to see you reward those good children on the next episode for obeying their parents..............
I think the children today have their parents under the gun. They seem to be in charge these days.They know that if you discipline them in any way they can call some authorities and it's abuse. They need a belt every now and again and put them in line. Not abusive but let them know that we are the parents and we're just trying to teach them. It's just outrageous how the children are overpowering their parents and the parents are scared of what might happen if they punish them. I had the belt and my fathers hand a couple of times and by god i never did what I did again. I was scared. Kids are not scared today. They just do whatever. Back in the day, I never heard of gang shootings, or school killings, threats, etc. That's all you hear on the news everyday. It's all out of hand.
 
May 26, 2008, 2:50 pm CDT

Abdicating Parenting

These parents are crazy! They should have set ground rules before the children reached the age of five. I raised five wonderful children, and I was never confused about whether I was the parent and they were the kids. I let my kids understand that I am their friend to a point, but I am always their mother; there is a line they can never cross. I told them that it doesn't matter how long they live, they will never be as grown or as old as I am. They are now 33, 28, 26, 25 & 11, and they are well adjusted and successful. We are best buddies; we always know that we have each other's backs. They were taught that family was forever, other people come and go; we are all we have.

When they were young they understood by the time they were two that there were consequences to their actions. My ground rules were: no lying, no stealing, do not talk back to me, do not raise your voice to me, and if you raise your hand to me, you die. There was never a discussion if any of these basic rules were broken; the punishment was a given. And, yes, I spanked all of them, but only when they had broken rules that they already knew the consequences. I didn't repeat myself more than twice; there was not a third time. As I told them: "I will not abdicate my parental responsibilites because you want to get upset; you'll get over it. They were allowed to disagree with me and to get mad with me; as long as they did it with respect (in tone, demeanor and body language). They were taught to treat themselves and others with respect and dignity, and they were NEVER to disrespect an adult. If they had a problem with an adult, they were to bring it to me, and I would handle it. I could take my children anywhere and never have to worry how they were going to behave because they understood what was acceptable behavior; at home and in public. The thing is, I was consistent in my discipline; there were never any surprises. I would tell them here is decision A and B, and the consequences or rewards for each; you decide what you can live with and make a decision.

Because I was consistent and not afraid to exert my authority, my children were confident that their environment was safe and loving. The punishment was balanced with lots of hugs, kisses and affirmations of my faith in them. They knew what my expectations of them were: do good in school, keep the house clean; do your chores; carry yourself with dignity and love each other. My babies tell me constantly how happy their childhood was, and that they wish to pass that along to their children. I have five grandchildren who are being raised the same way. Craziness is not tolerated!!!

Note: I did not waste my time yelling and screaming. I am a firm believer in the switch as a powerful discipline tool; two or three licks on the forearm or on the calf is all you need for a toddler. I kept one on the dashboard of my car and one on my coffee table. All I had to do was pick it up, and I got instant order. A wonderful thing. As they got older the switches got bigger until they were not needed on a regular basis. But, do believe that a couple of them got switched at the age of 14; cause I will not tolerate foolishness.

PARENTS, TAKE CONTROL.

 

DK. Willis

 
May 26, 2008, 2:59 pm CDT

Hallalujah!

Dr. Phil says he would have yanked Noah out of his chair if he had hit him and Wendy should have been the same. I was afraid that Dr. Phil would have had her pat him on the po po and tell him what a bad boy he was and put him in time out for five minutes. The problem with yanking him out of the chair would be that he would have run and yelled abuse. I think he has screamed that his mother abuses him so much that he believes it. I can truthfully say that if she had hit him on the plane, she would have been restrained and then taken off by air marshalls when the plane landed. He lies so much, you can't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
 
May 26, 2008, 3:03 pm CDT

Noah's Scary

Just because Noah draws a picture of his mother hitting him doesn't mean the picture is true to life.  As a teacher, I can see the clear manipulation and falsehood in him.  He drew that picture to get a reaction.  He whined to the other mother to get sympathy.  He has learned if he makes the allegation, people will assume it's true.  I love Dr. Phil saying, "I wish I'd been in the room when he slapped you yesterday.  I would have yanked him up . . ."  Okay, and THEN WHAT.  That seems like a mixed message.  You can't touch him physically . . . but "yank him up".  What does Dr. Phil suggest come after the hands-free yanking that would "change his whole life" and turn him around?  No doubt Wendy has checked out after the death of her daughter, and some of that she couldn't help at the time and can't change now.  I found the episode in which he apologized so sweetly to him mom while Dr. Phil was in the room, but immediately turned on his mom when he was in the room shows his manipulation.  She said NOTHING out of line to him, but he just shut her down by playing the victim, insisting she had "done it again".  The truth about Noah is that he fully thinks he should be catered to and any failure to do so, any insistence that he comply with authority, constitutes abuse in his book.   

 

This child has had a problem with all adults in authority around him -- teachers and principal as well as mother.  Did they abuse him too? 

 

I would like to say I can't imagine what having a child like him  in my classroom would be like.  Unfortunately, I do.  Every year I have at least one -- usually two or three -- who are like Noah and Ethan and the Drama Queen.  This year alone, I have a bi-polar child who acts like Noah.  I have THREE "Drama Queens" who act just like that girl.  I know many of them are acting what they learn at home or are victims of situations beyond their control.    Knowing that makes me sympathetic, but it doesn't make dealing with them any easier.  And people wonder why there's a teacher shortage?

 
May 26, 2008, 3:15 pm CDT

Noah

I don't think that is a bad child.  I think his mother needs to get herself together before she can possibly help him with his own grief.  Just watching him beg her to love him and listen to him takes me back to my own childhood.

Growing up, I was basically ignored until I got into trouble.  When my father asked me why I'd done something, he never listened, or even allowed, me to answer.  He had the answer he believed and that was that.  Because of the way my parents treated me, I learned to keep everything to myself.  Now, as an adult, I can't open up to anyone.

My heart aches to see that child shut down.  I know he will if things don't change for him.

And, as for the respect, my grandmother and I argue that one all the time.  I believe that the parent must first respect the child as a human being and then the child will learn what respect is.  You cannot demand respect, even from your child.  You MUST earn it.

That's just my two cents.  I'm not trained nor am I a parent, but I can see when people are hurting.
 
May 26, 2008, 3:38 pm CDT

All happy families are alike . . .

Quote From: themom54

I raised a very level headed wonderful son.  His father and I divorced when he was 6.  We(his father and I) never said a bad word about eachother around him.  Still don't.  He's know 25.   We rarely had to raise our voices to him.  We would sit down and talk face to face, explaining that what he did or said was wrong.  It was his action, not him.  If he touched something he was told not to touch, his hand(s) were slapped.  If he said something he knew he shouldn't, his mouth was 'popped'.  Never slapped. 

Back to the show.  The cussing!  I cannot believe parents say those things!  The kids are going to hear it everywhere else, why do they have to hear it at home?  Who cares if a bedroom is clean.  Close the door.  We never cared about his bedroom being clean.  What a waste of energy(mine).  My son knew when the laundry was going to be done.  Bring the laundry out, or, wear dirty clothes, or, learn to do laundry.  His stufff was always there.  He liked having it done for him.  Getting him to do chores.  Yes there was some comprimise.  One example:  if he was watching a favorite show I would tell him to take care of 'whatever' when the commercial came on.  The chore got done.  Please don't blame single parents. 

 

 

     Each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.  (OK, that is not my line.  It belongs to Leo Tolstoy)

     It is true single parents are blamed for all the troubles of the world.  That is an easy solution to difficult problems.  It isn't at all practical.

    I had a lot of unflattering things to say about my ex.  I was known to enumerate them in front of the kids.  What do I say?  I failed the sainthood exam.  I called my ex a jerk, a drunk, a cheat, and a liar.  Unfortunately, it is all true.  (He can't even take a sainthood exam)

     The parents on that show should have explained that the "Don't touch the goodies" exercise was not about obeying parents, it was about self-discipline.  All the yelling and cussing has not set a fine example.  The children do not have a clue.  They have less impulse control than adults.  Seeing their parents descend into yelling and cussing, places children in a worse position.  

     Question?  Why do these parents need the last word?  Children are sent to a time-out, and there is a running battle.  It is not a time for discussion.  Bickering with the kid might be fun--it is not helpful.  These parents enjoy the "poor, poor pitiful me" "my kids are out of control" "send them to brat camp" line.  If these adults didn't enjoy the bickering and the resulting "pity parties," they would stop.  Dr. Phil must have told us this 10,000 times.  It is amazing that so many of us find excuses.  (It does not apply to me because I'm special.  I have suffered so much.  It is not my fault)   

             

     

     

        

 
May 26, 2008, 3:42 pm CDT

Articulate isn't the point

Quote From: desertlilly

The young man who slapped his mother...This boy is articulate, and I wonder if he needs more of an outlet, more stimulation then he is getting at home or at school. I do agree that slapping his mother is not right, but I just think he needs things to keep him busy. Maybe if Mom and he did not spend so much time with each other, the problems between them would lessen. Both Mom and son need to talk to someone that deals with grief issues, as well.

 

Same for the boy who thinks everything is "boring". Get him involved in outside activities. Mom needs to learn how to back off. She kept saying over and over..."you are so disrespectful"....ya think? This is his payoff, annoy Mom and she will give me attention. Get his butt outside to burn off some steam.

Approaches like yours, which praise behavioral problems with views of the child being "articulate" and needing of "stimulation," are what's created the problem to begin with.  The child needs boundaries, and to be taught respect and empathy of the feelings of others, not praise.  I often see parents in public ignoring bad behavior or laughing at it right in front of the child.  They treat the child not like a child, but like a pet monkey.  And when the monkey grows into a gorilla they call Dr. Phil. 

 

One slap to his mother should be the end of the day for that child.  No more conversation, no more chances to abuse anyone, you go to your room and you don't come out until you can sincerely apologize and prove you understand what you did wrong.  I saw kids on the show today barely acknowledge their wrongdoings after timeout sessions, or be dramatic or eyerolling about it.  That shouldn't fly.  You either apologize right or you stay in time out.  A couple of these kids seemed pathological to me.  Crying without tears.....apologizing and later saying they didn't even mean the apology.

 
May 26, 2008, 3:46 pm CDT

Great perspective

Quote From: asmithwife

Just because Noah draws a picture of his mother hitting him doesn't mean the picture is true to life.  As a teacher, I can see the clear manipulation and falsehood in him.  He drew that picture to get a reaction.  He whined to the other mother to get sympathy.  He has learned if he makes the allegation, people will assume it's true.  I love Dr. Phil saying, "I wish I'd been in the room when he slapped you yesterday.  I would have yanked him up . . ."  Okay, and THEN WHAT.  That seems like a mixed message.  You can't touch him physically . . . but "yank him up".  What does Dr. Phil suggest come after the hands-free yanking that would "change his whole life" and turn him around?  No doubt Wendy has checked out after the death of her daughter, and some of that she couldn't help at the time and can't change now.  I found the episode in which he apologized so sweetly to him mom while Dr. Phil was in the room, but immediately turned on his mom when he was in the room shows his manipulation.  She said NOTHING out of line to him, but he just shut her down by playing the victim, insisting she had "done it again".  The truth about Noah is that he fully thinks he should be catered to and any failure to do so, any insistence that he comply with authority, constitutes abuse in his book.   

 

This child has had a problem with all adults in authority around him -- teachers and principal as well as mother.  Did they abuse him too? 

 

I would like to say I can't imagine what having a child like him  in my classroom would be like.  Unfortunately, I do.  Every year I have at least one -- usually two or three -- who are like Noah and Ethan and the Drama Queen.  This year alone, I have a bi-polar child who acts like Noah.  I have THREE "Drama Queens" who act just like that girl.  I know many of them are acting what they learn at home or are victims of situations beyond their control.    Knowing that makes me sympathetic, but it doesn't make dealing with them any easier.  And people wonder why there's a teacher shortage?

Great insight.  I completely agree that Noah knows what he is doing.  He has been manipulating the adults around him for far too long, and it is quite scary behavior.

 

Did you hear what Ethan said when picking teams for the challenge/exercise?  He said that he didn't choose his mother to be on his team on purpose, because he knew it would make her feel sad, which would allow his team to win.  That exercise gave me an understanding on the true Ethan and Noah.  They know exactly how they are treating their mothers and how their mothers feel.  It's abusive.  Those two boys are the abusers.

 
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