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Topic : 05/26 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp, Part 2

Number of Replies: 145
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Created on : Friday, May 23, 2008, 07:35:18 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil continues his work with four families who say their kids are out of control. They moved out of their madhouse and into The Dr. Phil House to learn how to end the chaos and constant battles, and create a peaceful, loving and happy home. The parents and kids role-play with puppets, but when two kids misbehave, will their exercise become an exercise in futility? After Noah and his mom have another fight, Dr. Phil sits down with them privately to broker peace. Will anger and resentment give way to compassion and forgiveness? Next, all the kids participate in an experiment called Temptation Table – a table is covered with candy, cookies, cell phones and toys. Can all the kids be trusted around Dr. Phil’s Temptation Table? You won’t believe what happens when their parents leave the room! Then, Dr. Phil shows the parents home camera footage of poor parenting situations in their home. Will the parents stop what they’re doing and become a calm, united front for their kids, providing consistent, predictable consequences to bad behavior? One mom’s question has Dr. Phil wondering if he’s wasting his time. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.



Discuss your views on discipline here.

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May 26, 2008, 3:53 pm CDT

Brat Camp

I have seen a lot of families out of control, but never have I seen anything like this Noah.  This kid needs to go to a real boot camp.  Kid gloving these kids is ridiculous!  How on earth can any parent of any of these kids consider themselves a parent?  If Noah was my kid, first of all he would not dare slap me or anyone else.  And personally, without knowing this kids father, I can guarantee you there is some parent alienation going on within that family.  Parent alienation is where one parent is pitting the child against the other parent.  In this families past they have lost a daughter.  I am curious if the father has blamed the mother for their daughter dying and using Noah to punish her.  Something is more serious here than simply a braty kid with an obnoxious mouth who thinks he is tough stuff and in charge.  I would shut that kids mouth up the first time he opened it - and I am not an abusive person, but one thing I do not and never did allow was my children to ever talk to me or anyone else the way this Noah does to his mother.  He deserves to be spanked big time!  This thing of rewarding kids for every time they do something right is ridiculous.  This may be why we now have a bunch of kids coming out of college demanding their employers to allow them to come in late and whatever else they want.  This new wave of raising kids is the most sickening.  I assure if this Noah talked to me the way he does his mother I would have him shut up NOW.  As for his whinning and saying how his mother slaps him, etc.  Talk about the kid crying wolf.  I guarantee this kid has been in counseling and the counselor is feeding this kid full of crap.  It's a therapist and or his father. 
 
May 26, 2008, 3:57 pm CDT

Spot on!

Quote From: asmithwife

Just because Noah draws a picture of his mother hitting him doesn't mean the picture is true to life.  As a teacher, I can see the clear manipulation and falsehood in him.  He drew that picture to get a reaction.  He whined to the other mother to get sympathy.  He has learned if he makes the allegation, people will assume it's true.  I love Dr. Phil saying, "I wish I'd been in the room when he slapped you yesterday.  I would have yanked him up . . ."  Okay, and THEN WHAT.  That seems like a mixed message.  You can't touch him physically . . . but "yank him up".  What does Dr. Phil suggest come after the hands-free yanking that would "change his whole life" and turn him around?  No doubt Wendy has checked out after the death of her daughter, and some of that she couldn't help at the time and can't change now.  I found the episode in which he apologized so sweetly to him mom while Dr. Phil was in the room, but immediately turned on his mom when he was in the room shows his manipulation.  She said NOTHING out of line to him, but he just shut her down by playing the victim, insisting she had "done it again".  The truth about Noah is that he fully thinks he should be catered to and any failure to do so, any insistence that he comply with authority, constitutes abuse in his book.   

 

This child has had a problem with all adults in authority around him -- teachers and principal as well as mother.  Did they abuse him too? 

 

I would like to say I can't imagine what having a child like him  in my classroom would be like.  Unfortunately, I do.  Every year I have at least one -- usually two or three -- who are like Noah and Ethan and the Drama Queen.  This year alone, I have a bi-polar child who acts like Noah.  I have THREE "Drama Queens" who act just like that girl.  I know many of them are acting what they learn at home or are victims of situations beyond their control.    Knowing that makes me sympathetic, but it doesn't make dealing with them any easier.  And people wonder why there's a teacher shortage?

"Just because Noah draws a picture of his mother hitting him doesn't mean the picture is true to life.  As a teacher, I can see the clear manipulation and falsehood in him."

 

Bingo.

 

"I love Dr. Phil saying, "I wish I'd been in the room when he slapped you yesterday.  I would have yanked him up . . ."  Okay, and THEN WHAT.  That seems like a mixed message.  You can't touch him physically . . . but "yank him up".  What does Dr. Phil suggest come after the hands-free yanking that would "change his whole life" and turn him around?"

 

Bingo again! 

 

" I found the episode in which he apologized so sweetly to him mom while Dr. Phil was in the room, but immediately turned on his mom when he was in the room shows his manipulation. "

 

You're spot on yet again.  He immediately started an argument and then later claimed it was her.  The mother had to cut him off at some point because it was clear that she had seen this before, this was a pattern, and if she said nothing then she'd be subjected to a non-ending lecture of abusive put-downs from her own child.  Noah is not interested in being real, or in breaking through a problem.  He enjoys the problem.  He gets to control and hurt others, and is skilled in ratcheting up or down that level of manipulation at will. 

 

I see the parents point here.  They asked Dr. Phil over and over and over...."what do I do?"  And he has nothing to say.  "Well, stop doing what you're doing, for one thing."  Yeah, that's real helpful.  It's time to be specific, Phil.  You haven't helped anybody.

 
May 26, 2008, 4:01 pm CDT

Mixed message

Dr. Phil stating he would yank Noah does not mean child abuse.  Child abuse is only when one leaves a mark.  There are ways of disciplining children without hitting so hard that one leaves a mark.  I personally think Dr. Phil is referencing changing Noah by psychological means.  That is what I did to my kids and I know nothing about psychology.  My girls were always afraid of my "eyes" because I had direct eye contact when I was angry and they knew I was angry.  One thing I do believe in is spanking.  Again, hitting is only abusive if leaving a mark.  This idea of having to have a degree in child rearing to raise ones children is ridiculous.  I remember growing up rarely hearing my Mother say:  "Wait until your Father gets home."  Consequently, I was raised to be very respectful and if I wasn't I assure you I would have had a hand come across my face.  And guess what.  It did NO damage to me!
 
May 26, 2008, 4:20 pm CDT

Noah

Forgot to add this to my previous paragraphs - I think Noah IS Bipolar.  There is something wrong with this kid besides just discipline issues and his sister dying.  Something is off kilter and out of balance.  But then again, now days the popular assessment is to blame it on Bipolar, Anxiety, Depression so the behavior can be blamed on the drug the kid takes.  Bipolar or not - one way to help straighten that kid out is stop allowing him to think he is in charge and knock him down a couple of pegs. 

 

As for getting him involved in outside activities - He needs to sit in a corner like a 2-year-old and make sure he has no access to any computer games.  As for his being around other kids for him to have an outlet - I DON'T THINK SO.  I sure wouldn't want my kid around him!

 
May 26, 2008, 4:22 pm CDT

Lack of Love

When Dr. Phil asked the parents to describe their children, not once did I hear any of them say they were once sweet kids, or lovable until something changed in their lives that made them different.  I'll bet if all of these parents stopped and looked back to reflect on when their child starting acting up, they would solve their problems with their children quick.

 

Hug those children and tell them they are loved and mean it, then show them in how you treat them.  When you are angry, take a deep breath before you say  something dumb.  Stop anf think how you would feel if someone was talking to you or treating you the way you are doing to them!!

 

Food for thought!!

 
May 26, 2008, 4:35 pm CDT

A couple of these kids are abusers

 

I'm sorry, but I saw a lot of abuse and manipulation from these kids, especially Noah, and I didn't hear any solutions, just blame for the parents and weak promises obtained from the kids.

 

I don't see any discipline.  I don't see any communication.  I don't see variation in response.  Meaning, anything goes for the child.  They can spit, yell, slap, or go into the kitchen and get a steak knife and plunge it into their mother's heart.  The reaction from the parent is the same, "oh Johnny is acting up again." 

 

What I would suggest as a first step is a break from all this for the mothers.  Separate from the child, send the child to stay with grandma for a week and go to the spa, or to church, or to the bahamas...just so you get a mental health break.   Step two, learn.  Find the best parenting class you can (some universities even have childcare experts and classes).  Step three re-introduce yourself to the child with a new attitude and approach.  The child now knows he hasn't broken you.  Step four start instilling discipline, boundaries and rewards for good behavior.  Take control over even the smallest behaviors.  If after timeout you feel the child hasn't lowered his voice sufficiently, then ask him to lower it and tell him if he does he'll be able to come out and join the family in a fun activity.  If he doesn't lower it he'll stay in there.  Take control in bigger ways too - send them to their room with no cell phone, no radio or tv.  If they don't settle down, then more comes out of the room - everything, until there's nothing but a bed. 

 

 
May 26, 2008, 4:41 pm CDT

Mixed Message

Quote From: asmithwife

Just because Noah draws a picture of his mother hitting him doesn't mean the picture is true to life.  As a teacher, I can see the clear manipulation and falsehood in him.  He drew that picture to get a reaction.  He whined to the other mother to get sympathy.  He has learned if he makes the allegation, people will assume it's true.  I love Dr. Phil saying, "I wish I'd been in the room when he slapped you yesterday.  I would have yanked him up . . ."  Okay, and THEN WHAT.  That seems like a mixed message.  You can't touch him physically . . . but "yank him up".  What does Dr. Phil suggest come after the hands-free yanking that would "change his whole life" and turn him around?  No doubt Wendy has checked out after the death of her daughter, and some of that she couldn't help at the time and can't change now.  I found the episode in which he apologized so sweetly to him mom while Dr. Phil was in the room, but immediately turned on his mom when he was in the room shows his manipulation.  She said NOTHING out of line to him, but he just shut her down by playing the victim, insisting she had "done it again".  The truth about Noah is that he fully thinks he should be catered to and any failure to do so, any insistence that he comply with authority, constitutes abuse in his book.   

 

This child has had a problem with all adults in authority around him -- teachers and principal as well as mother.  Did they abuse him too? 

 

I would like to say I can't imagine what having a child like him  in my classroom would be like.  Unfortunately, I do.  Every year I have at least one -- usually two or three -- who are like Noah and Ethan and the Drama Queen.  This year alone, I have a bi-polar child who acts like Noah.  I have THREE "Drama Queens" who act just like that girl.  I know many of them are acting what they learn at home or are victims of situations beyond their control.    Knowing that makes me sympathetic, but it doesn't make dealing with them any easier.  And people wonder why there's a teacher shortage?

I agree with your mixed message statement. I feel that Dr. Phil was telling the families not to physically pick up their kids and then went on to say he would yank the kid up out of the chair and told the mother she should have done the same. what is up with that?   i think that the families were begging for practical skills and they got intellectual answers. They all looked completely confused by his words. i felt sorry for the parents. they didn't understand what he was saying.
 
May 26, 2008, 4:43 pm CDT

05/26 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp, Part 2

Quote From: bobby_2007

I have seen a lot of families out of control, but never have I seen anything like this Noah.  This kid needs to go to a real boot camp.  Kid gloving these kids is ridiculous!  How on earth can any parent of any of these kids consider themselves a parent?  If Noah was my kid, first of all he would not dare slap me or anyone else.  And personally, without knowing this kids father, I can guarantee you there is some parent alienation going on within that family.  Parent alienation is where one parent is pitting the child against the other parent.  In this families past they have lost a daughter.  I am curious if the father has blamed the mother for their daughter dying and using Noah to punish her.  Something is more serious here than simply a braty kid with an obnoxious mouth who thinks he is tough stuff and in charge.  I would shut that kids mouth up the first time he opened it - and I am not an abusive person, but one thing I do not and never did allow was my children to ever talk to me or anyone else the way this Noah does to his mother.  He deserves to be spanked big time!  This thing of rewarding kids for every time they do something right is ridiculous.  This may be why we now have a bunch of kids coming out of college demanding their employers to allow them to come in late and whatever else they want.  This new wave of raising kids is the most sickening.  I assure if this Noah talked to me the way he does his mother I would have him shut up NOW.  As for his whinning and saying how his mother slaps him, etc.  Talk about the kid crying wolf.  I guarantee this kid has been in counseling and the counselor is feeding this kid full of crap.  It's a therapist and or his father. 
I am soooooo glad I am not the only one who thought this kid needs boot camp. Get a woman, not a male, but a woman drill sargeant in his face and see how much better he likes his mom. Wendy is nothing in comparison to what could be.

He did say that he never has any trouble with Dad. That says to me that dad lets him run the show. Why isn't dad there? This is a family problem.
 
May 26, 2008, 5:32 pm CDT

Dr. Phil neverr answered their questions

At the end of the show these people where begging (especially noah's mom) for answers on what to do. Dr Phil told them all what they were doing wasn't working and they all agreed and asked "what do we do?" and he just acted disgusted and said he felt he had wasted all his time. He has told them all their kids are out of control (duh thats why they all came) and they all wanted answers, did i miss the answers? because all I saw was desperate parents who came on national tv and embarrassed themselves and kids just to get answers but as far as I saw left with none.  No answeres just a ridiculing attitude from the DR saying he had wasted his time.

  I saw a boy and a mom heart broken by the loss of  his sister. I see he feels his mom blames him but maybe because he blames him self with some amount of survivoirs guilt, because he can't make his mom happy and maybe thinks the mom would have been happier if she had lost him instead, because kids think that way, not  because its true. Now he is angry and his rage and grief is in control because no one is helping him work through it.

  I think he feels stronger and less sad when he lets himself be angry instead and he hasn't found any other way to deal with such a huge and tragic loss of both his sister and mom because even if she isn't gone she is so different from her own loss she isn't the same mom or even same person.

  there is no "easy" answer. But she needs to let him know  his limits and they need to share their grief and also their good memories of his sister, his loss needs to be recognised by mom too.

  That family may benefit greatly from grief counseling and I personally feel that dealing with Noah's misbehavior or putting him in bootcamp is like starting a book in the middle. That is a little boy who needs grief counseling and anger  managment,  and need to deal with  the grief instead of hiding it under anger.

  I don't think his mom is abusing him,  but what he is really trying to say to her is "look at me I am still here and need you, I am in pain. what do i do?"

  Children just are not as able to put such incredibly  huge feelings into such small unsubstantial words, as some adults.... as far as that goes alot of adults can't either.

 
May 26, 2008, 5:52 pm CDT

Hug AND set boundaries

Quote From: salinas49er

When Dr. Phil asked the parents to describe their children, not once did I hear any of them say they were once sweet kids, or lovable until something changed in their lives that made them different.  I'll bet if all of these parents stopped and looked back to reflect on when their child starting acting up, they would solve their problems with their children quick.

 

Hug those children and tell them they are loved and mean it, then show them in how you treat them.  When you are angry, take a deep breath before you say  something dumb.  Stop anf think how you would feel if someone was talking to you or treating you the way you are doing to them!!

 

Food for thought!!

I agree to a point, sit down with the child and let's talk about what happened, what changed.  But...I'll bet dollars to donuts that these children had problems with authority, and dealing with life issues PRIOR to the "something" that changed.  Maybe they were never "sweet, lovable kids."  Maybe they always tested the boundaries, always got their own way.  This behavior is "cute" to many parents.  I see it all the time.  But it's not so funny anymore when this same small child becomes a selfish teen, or is too emotionally weak to deal with routine life issues.  We all hear about the kids who come to school with a gun because their girlfriend rejected them, or the math teacher gave them a D. 

 

The difficult truth is that these children are growing up, and fast becoming a bigger problem than they were when they were preschoolers.  So, these life events they went through, like divorce, are not going to make them into a serial killer, but the child learning to take pleasure in bullying others, and getting high off of hurting his mother.....can. 

 

So THAT's one of the big problems here.  One or two of these children are showing signs of not being capable of empathy, of being expert at manipulation, and enjoying the hormonal rush of pleasure that comes with using their power to hurt others.   They're becoming something dangerous. 

 

 

 
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