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Topic : 09/12 The N-Word Debate

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Created on : Thursday, September 04, 2008, 12:16:52 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
This two-syllable expression is arguably the most divisive word in society. Dr. Phil tackles this touchy topic with help from a panel of outspoken luminaries: civil rights activist Rev. Al Sharpton; legendary comedian and writer Paul Mooney; CSI actor and author Hill Harper; comedian Sheryl Underwood and conservative radio talk show host Michael Graham. First, is there a double standard that allows African-Americans to use this sensitive word, while non-blacks are forbidden? The debate heats up when Rachel, a white guest, says she calls her husband the N-word all the time. Then, should hip-hop artists be censored or fined for using the N-word in their songs? Becky says rappers promote negative stereotypes with their lyrics, but find out who Rev. Al Sharpton thinks should face the music. Plus, does tone or intent make a difference when using the N-word? See what Dr. Phil thinks and share your thoughts here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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September 18, 2008, 12:52 pm PDT

im rachel from the show

Quote From: cwillis

THE DIVISION WAS CAUSED LONG AGO! I PERSONAALY DON'T USE THE N WORD. I"M NOT COMFORTABLE USING THE WORD AND I USE TO BE OFFENDED BY HEARING IT FROM MY PEOPLE AS WELL BUT, I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY TOOK CONTROL OVER THE WORD.

NOTICE TO ALL WHITE PEOPLE "CONTINUE TO USE IT IN THE COMFORT OF YOUR OWN HOME! DON'T EVER THINK YOU WOULD GET AWAY WITH IT TO OUR FACE!!!!!!!! ACCEPT THE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Come one do you think a threat will help the problem? It is people like you who actually don't help the matter.
 
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September 18, 2008, 1:06 pm PDT

Well logically...

Quote From: phoenixphorce

I have used the N word publicly, and towards whites as well publicly, if I feel it is justified, I shall use it again publicly. What I have an issue with is the double standard. Unless and until the word is deemed inappropriate for all to use, including Blacks, if I feel it is justified, I will use the word. You are correct, I do respect Blacks, as I do all races, discrimination is an ugly thing, I will not go out of my way to offend anyone. Taboo has nothing to do with it, if and when I use the word, it is because I feel I am justified in it's use, regardless of what race the word is directed at. I know how the word is perceived, however, please understand I am still conscious of the original definition of the word, and when I use it, it is generally meant as that, directed at the lowlifes and deadbeats, when I use it, it is not meant as a derogatory statement against just Blacks, I use it to refer to those who actually fit the original definition. I do have many more words in my vocabulary to cut someone down if I feel it's needed, often without them realizing what I am doing while I'm doing it, but again, if I resort to such low standards, it is usually to those the word describes, and they often do not understand what I am saying to begin with. For the most part, I do not use the word, privately or publicly, that is my personal choice, yet, if and only if I feel it's justified, i shall use it privately and publicly. Remove the double standard, and I would not object or feel so passionately about this in the first place. That is the real point I have been trying to make. If the word is so offensive to Blacks, then why in the world would you use it among yourselves? That alone makes no sense to me, but as long as the word is in use by one, it should be allowed to be used by all, no exceptions. Considering the history of this word, it would seem more logical that everyone would wish to distance themselves from it, instead of trying to make it a term of endearment or anything else. Regardless of which definition one goes by with this word, it was never meant as anything kind. I will say it once more, the word is either offensive to all, or it isn't, acceptable for all to use, or unacceptable for anyone to use......eliminate the double standard and there is no problem.
You sort of contradict yourself. You say you'll use the word if you feel it's "justified" (and I'd like you to define when it is justified). But then at the end of your post you say the only way to end it is for everyone to stop using it and remove the double standard. So why don't you follow your own advice? I agree there's no way to rid ourselves of this problem unless we all stop using it.

Now I will never ever use that word as a term of endearment or any other way. My Daddy taught me way better than that. But I always get so angry when people say that that word is intended to describe lowlifes and thugs. Because noting the history of the word (it was used to describe only blacks) it implies that blacks are all lowlifes and thugs which just isn't true. Or not of me anyway...

As I said in my post I refuse to represent myself in a way that would make someone even think of using that word to describe me but it doesn't stop anyone. Just because I'm black people feel like it's okay and some mean it with malice. For instance I was at a club one night and this guy walks up to me trying to hit on me and said, "Hey, what's up my N?" and I just about lost my head. Why would anyone think that's OK?!

Also, I was watching 40-Year-Old Virgin last night on USA and they bleeped the word c***, s***, f*** and g**damn, but at the scene where the black salesman and customer get in an argument and say the N-word about 30 times they don't bleep it. Why is that?
 
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September 18, 2008, 1:42 pm PDT

09/12 The N-Word Debate

Quote From: anwarnken

Whoever wrote this has a lot to learn. I live in Louisiana, I was born and raised here and yes racism does exist in the South and is more prevalent here then in other areas of the country. Just because black role models exist doesn't mean that they are accepted in many households. I can remember one of my white friends hiding her Eminem CDs at my house because her parents wouldn't let her listen to rap because "that's black people music and she shouldn't associate herself with it because she was better than that." And he isn't even black... And you don't go to peoples homes so all these nice people who live around you may be just like that. And that's the worst kind of racism the kind that pushes further generations to move away from different cultures and seclude themselves because 'it's just better that way." As for Black History month... I'm in college and graduated high school not that long ago in 2005 and do you know what it consisted of? One Friday towards the end of the month there was an assembly where the gospel choir sang and recepients of scholarships for blacks were given awards, etc. None of the teachers curbed their lessons to teach about black history; there were just a few posters in the halls and that was that. And since you can't learn about black history solely from the history books it would've been nice if some time had been dedicated to it.... About the schools, it's not fair that schools in poorer neighborhoods receive a poorer education. When there are the means whether its government grants or not they should be utilized so that the children of poor undereducated people don't repeat the cycle. If they can't get a good education how will they better their lives? And considering that minorities make up these poor communities it is a race issue especially because most people just assume that somehow it's the fault of these children for not being able to succeed in life because they "probably didn't study hard enough" when most of the time they weren't given the proper tools. About the family histories, that's important to anyone most cultures have a strong desire to know their heritage and it's sad that I can't know certain things about my family. To your last statement, those same children that have no choice but to go to a poor school with poor education standards how is that supposed to empower them to keep moving on? How can a mother get over seeing her child being given a poor education and realizing that certain opportunities just won't be open to that child because there are people who would let that school system fail? That's really hard to just get over. And yes, I'm black.

First of all, I am not stating there is no more racism, I know it exists, but it is not just the whites being racist. There are a lot of comments on this site that proves that whites are just as much of a target as blacks, but I understand that the history in our country has been against the blacks. I cannot comment on your school, but in my school, the ENTIRE month of Feb we learned about African Americans and their accomplishments and their history, past and present. In my school we had no gospel choir, just the regular choir. And just because there are white role models, doen't make them acceptable in every house hold either. I also do not agree that school curriculum and resources are available only to the rich, i am not one of the rich, but from my experiences, and from what i am reading of yours too, that is the way it is.  It has nothing to do with who studies harder. Some of my best friends in highschool and in college now study harder and are better than I am in school, they too are black. The problem people have is all the do is complain about it.  What I was saying in family history is that not every black person here came from Africa, some have a family history. And not every white person has a family history to track down either. Native Americans and other races are the same. Maybe I can't google who my ancesters were, or even pay hard earned money to find out where they were from, but the point is this is still living in the past, how is the history of my 7th great grandfather going to effect the contition, or quality of life I have now, it is all just information, valuable information, but not pertinant. As a mother of small children in school, and not rich, i have had to work 3 jobs at a time to earn the money to move to a better school district. work an extra 10 hr shift so i can afford my kids school supplies, because no one is going to donate it to me. It is my job as a mother to decide what is best for my kids and work my ass off to give it to them. I do not want them to grow up with a sense of entitlement. They do not have the "right" to go to a great school, they have the privelidge that is fought for them to go, by me, and our soldiers. They do not have the "right" to go play in the park, they have the privelidge to go to a park, decent or not, that other people have worked hard to maintain, or build, and people have lost lives over to protect, etc, etc. This country has a problem with feeling that everyone owes them something, we forget that everything we have, clothes, food, access to healthcare, technology, education, is not a right, it is a priveledge that is fought for every day outside our land.

 
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September 18, 2008, 2:21 pm PDT

Shakes head.....

Quote From: anwarnken

You sort of contradict yourself. You say you'll use the word if you feel it's "justified" (and I'd like you to define when it is justified). But then at the end of your post you say the only way to end it is for everyone to stop using it and remove the double standard. So why don't you follow your own advice? I agree there's no way to rid ourselves of this problem unless we all stop using it.

Now I will never ever use that word as a term of endearment or any other way. My Daddy taught me way better than that. But I always get so angry when people say that that word is intended to describe lowlifes and thugs. Because noting the history of the word (it was used to describe only blacks) it implies that blacks are all lowlifes and thugs which just isn't true. Or not of me anyway...

As I said in my post I refuse to represent myself in a way that would make someone even think of using that word to describe me but it doesn't stop anyone. Just because I'm black people feel like it's okay and some mean it with malice. For instance I was at a club one night and this guy walks up to me trying to hit on me and said, "Hey, what's up my N?" and I just about lost my head. Why would anyone think that's OK?!

Also, I was watching 40-Year-Old Virgin last night on USA and they bleeped the word c***, s***, f*** and g**damn, but at the scene where the black salesman and customer get in an argument and say the N-word about 30 times they don't bleep it. Why is that?
I do not believe I contradict myself, but to each their own. As for justified in its use, if anyone corners me, makes me feel threatened, and are already on the attack, I am coming out fighting with whatever weapons I have at my disposal, and my best weapon is words. If I use that word, it will be directed to any lowlife thug, REGARDLESS OF RACE OR COLOR that fits that description. I also stated that even the internet is culpible in hiding and otherwise eliminating the truth, including the original meaning of the N word. That word described the lowlifes of every race and color, not just one. Can I make that any clearer? My objection remains, eliminate the double standard, period. I said, the word is offensive to all, or it's not, acceptable for ALL to use, or unacceptable for ANYONE  to use, and that does include the race that the word was meant to deride. While I personally choose not to use the word as a whole, in any situation, I am free to do so, and will if I feel it's appropriate for me, if I know I can live with myself afterwards. I have never considered all Blacks to be lowlife thugs, and again, the original meaning of the word described those in all races and colors, good luck finding the truth, they are so good at burying it, I did look for the meaning and saw where they tried to make it only a color thing, and that is just not true of the origin. And I agree, no one has the right to come up to you and say "Hey, what's up N?" That is rude and uncalled for. So why is it acceptable for so many to do it? And only of one race, the double standard I object to. I think it's rude and disrespectful when I hear Blacks do that to each other, my point is, and always has been, if they can use it, so can everyone else, and if they don't want everyone else to use it, then they need to cease and desist.
 
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September 18, 2008, 2:21 pm PDT

09/12 The N-Word Debate

Quote From: mrgrt56

 I don't understand how this man gained so much fame and respect, when he rose to those by lying and perpetrating a fraud?  Why is it okay that the African Americans can spew hatred about anyone and none of them are taken to task? Did the media go balistic and criticize Kanye West after his outburst on TV after hurricaine Katrina? No, they replayed  it as a condemnation of the Bush administration?  An African American child calling a white overweight child fat is as hurtful to the white child as the "N" word to the African American. I doubt if any uproar would be made about the child being called fat.

Are you talking about Paul Mooney? Anyways, you asked  why it is okay that black folks can spew hatred and and are not taken to task. You have to show me examples of this for me to fully address it. Kanye West got fined somewhere around $150,000.00 just for saying that George Bush doesn't care about black people. That statement was true. I could go on and on proving this but I won't because you would not believe me anyways. Did Kanye make a racist remark? No. He made a remark regarding race. That does not make him racist at all. If you really want to know the truth, Hurricane Katrina wasn't that bad of a storm. The levy broke, which caused the floods. The levy broke because it was bombed. Look it up. You Tube it. People were left to die while Bush did nothing. Canada offered support but Bush refused. Look it up. As far as the N word being equal to calling a white child fat, I can only shake my head and laugh. You obviously know nothing about black people and I don't care how many black people you have met. You are ignorant. Again, I can go on and on talking about black history, black people, racism, but you would not believe me anyways so I won't bother. Speaking as a black man I can tell you that we are the most forgiving race of people you will ever meet.  Did we seek revenge after slavery was over and attempt to kill all white people? No, but white people sure deserved it. For the most part, we are friendly to you. How many times have you heard about black people randomly killing whites? Now reverse that and ask the same question about whites killing blacks. How many police have harassed, beaten, abused, or killed black people? Probably none that you know of but I have heard many instances. Look at Sean Bell. Look up Jena 6. If you did then you would know that things are not equal at all, so please don't cry in these blogs about how bad white people have it. Your people own the world yet that isn't good enough for you. You need to open your eyes, and ask questions.

 
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September 18, 2008, 2:25 pm PDT

????

OK, I'm confused I have been reading the boards.What do black people want to be called.I have heard people get upset at every term.You call a black man/woman black they get upset.You call them African-American,and they say you are categorizing.You call them just American and they say we are trying to take away there history and heritage?Can somebody please clear this up for me?
 
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September 18, 2008, 2:41 pm PDT

im rachel from the show

Quote From: anwarnken

Well I think the main reason that BET was sold was purely a business deal. If you ever watched BET before Viacom bought them you could tell it was sort of low budget. But I think that the reason there isn't a lot of black programming is because it just wouldn't succeed. If you ever notice when shows like Girlfriends, Martin, Living Single, One on One... when they do come on TV it's at like 2am on the major networks. At least that how it is in my area. There's just not the market for it because there's just some white people who just don't want to see it. I've even talked to some of my friends who say those shows weren't "meant for them." It's really weird because some of them are really funny and relatable to anyone...

And the Fresh Prince example... it was centered on a family of which all the members were black and the kids dated other black kids so I mean that's why there weren't very many whites on the show. The only whites were like supporting characters or guest characters. But there are some shows that do have equal mixes of characters... I love Scrubs and they're well okay they're like 30/70 black to white but who cares it's hilarious. I just realized all my favorite shows don't have a mix it's one or the other.... My favorite is Gilmore Girls and there aren't any black characters... wow. Well there's an asian girl.

Anywho it would be call to have a show with a mix of races because that's my life. My husbands white, my best friend who was the maid of honor in my wedding is Mexican and moved here when she was about 11. When my friends and I get together we make fun saying that we look like one of those cheesy inspirational posters you see in highschool that are like "Diversity is Dynamite!" Anyway I rambled, sorry :)
The fresh Prince was my all time favorite show. I still watch it. And Martin was my husbands favorite show. It takes a really special show to get my attention, when it does I watch it for life. Like I still watch Fresh Prince and Roseanne yet I have never seen one episode of friends. The first time I heard of BET was when my nephew came over he was 10 and he is like put BET on. I was like what is that. He said Black Entertainment. It must be doing well though, right? I mean its still on the air. God before I did the show I had no idea what blacks are going through, I'm sorry I wish it were different.
 
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September 18, 2008, 3:03 pm PDT

im rachel from the show

Quote From: seeking_peace

OK, I'm confused I have been reading the boards.What do black people want to be called.I have heard people get upset at every term.You call a black man/woman black they get upset.You call them African-American,and they say you are categorizing.You call them just American and they say we are trying to take away there history and heritage?Can somebody please clear this up for me?
I'm white so I cant speak for blacks. Let me just say don't call anyone anything you would not call yourself. I use the term blacks and whites,  I wouldn't call them blacks and then refer to myself as American. I have had no one yell at me for it. I'm thinking maybe its not the fact of being called  blacks rather they might have been offended in the way they interpreted the persons tone or attitude. Bottom line is on the message board there is no way you can please everyone but if your post is not offensive and they see you are compassionate in your post when referring to them as "blacks" my guess the response would be different. Like I said IDK I'm guessing from my experience in that I have not been told I was offensive in using the term yet.
 
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September 18, 2008, 3:57 pm PDT

im rachel from the show

Quote From: cornell74

To everyone The problem with whites is this..Whites think blacks are racist because they do not understand what blacks are going through, really, I myself was one. Whites really think everything is equal. There are many categories of whites. There are ones who understand and like blacks, there are ones that hate them, period and there are ones that would like them but think they are racist toward whites and use "the race card" to get their way. I really believe the third category is what the majority of whites feel at least the ones that I know or have spoken to feel. I for one was one of them. I was wrong, so dam wrong.

To the white race that falls into the last category please do us all a favor, it would really help if you would try to look from blacks perspective for awhile. I know your mind would change. Ask yourself this, if black men (or women) were coming in and out of your house everyday, what do you think your white neighbors would be thinking and saying. I know, I have heard whites that fall into the second category say how they feel, "fn N's going in and out of that house all the time", or that lady is "white trash, she has blacks in and out all the time". I have heard comments like that from some, not allot, but I have. So yes racism against blacks is still very real and I think its wrong on every level.

This part is to blacks ( i hope that is not disrespectful to say "blacks" and "whites" its just easier)
I am sorry I did not understand sooner. It really is for the most part a lack of empathy from whites. I think when a white posts a post that says "I'm not racist but..." ,blacks need to hear that as a key word that they fall into category three. They best way to talk to people in category three is not to talk at them, talk to them. Don't yell at them for saying how they feel, just tell them you understand how they feel and ask them to try to understand how you feel. You will get through more then you would if you argue their feelings( I'm referring to all blacks reading this post)  and tell them they are flat out wrong because then they will argue because their views came from experience from blacks while running errands or shopping or the media, so their view is very real in their minds. That is because they have not been around blacks and tried to know them or understand them. Their perception is what they have experienced so you can't argue that they are wrong, because in their minds they are very right. So the best way to get through is to first understand that and second say to them, I know that is what you experienced and that is unfortunate because.......then go on to make your point. Its sad when whites say "I'm not racist but", because whites really want to like blacks but they have been programed that they are all bad and hate whites. People who say, "I'm not racist but", those are the ones who want to understand you and like you, they are the ones that are worth talking to. They are in fact not racist and they are telling you that, on the same note the "but" means this is the reason they have negative thoughts toward blacks and they are looking for you to explain why so they can have a different understanding. In reference to the ones that come on here yelling and saying "get over it", don't waste your time. They are the reason there is a category three in whites, avoid them. There will always be a group of haters, you need to be able to tell who is in what category. Then you will know how to deal with that particular person.

Just trying to help anyway I can.
OK which white person is going to let me have it, I'm ready. I know I'm in trouble for this one  I know your going to say "who are you to categorize white people"" I'm not like anything you said" you need to speak for yourself."  "You think you speak for whites"  "You don't even know me" Blah Blah Blah Anyone who says that to me is obviously not here to help rather just to argue and i am not going to waste my time defending what I know to be true.
 
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September 18, 2008, 4:02 pm PDT

Re-Play it !!!!

Did not see the show. 

Please replay in Georgia!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The topic that can never die,  it is like the energizer bunny.

Here is a suggestion, call me by my name, gender, title or "BOSS" will do.

 

I become convienently deaf when called outside my name.  I have no time for ignorance and no time to teach the ignorant, why, because in this age they choose to be so.  I like to oblige.

 

War - Hunger - Natural disasters - Disease - Economic recession - and on and on and on...

Children to raise - bills to pay - job to secure........

 

I know who I am.  I am secure and happy in my skin.  Love my hair.  The color of my eyes are striking.

Blood is red.  Can anyone tell my race from this note...  Bet not.

 

Wonder if the name callers are happy in their skin....  Ball is in their court and I have moved on not even looking back.

 

While I am gaining momentum on my goals, they are still where I left them - 10 steps behind.

 

 
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