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Topic : 09/12 The N-Word Debate

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Created on : Thursday, September 04, 2008, 12:16:52 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
This two-syllable expression is arguably the most divisive word in society. Dr. Phil tackles this touchy topic with help from a panel of outspoken luminaries: civil rights activist Rev. Al Sharpton; legendary comedian and writer Paul Mooney; CSI actor and author Hill Harper; comedian Sheryl Underwood and conservative radio talk show host Michael Graham. First, is there a double standard that allows African-Americans to use this sensitive word, while non-blacks are forbidden? The debate heats up when Rachel, a white guest, says she calls her husband the N-word all the time. Then, should hip-hop artists be censored or fined for using the N-word in their songs? Becky says rappers promote negative stereotypes with their lyrics, but find out who Rev. Al Sharpton thinks should face the music. Plus, does tone or intent make a difference when using the N-word? See what Dr. Phil thinks and share your thoughts here.

Find out what happened on the show.
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cornell74
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September 8, 2008, 7:25 pm PDT

Rachel from the show

Quote From: jaukowarrant

First off! Please quit saying that black people are trying to get special treatment. We aren't. As a women I'm surprised that you take such a harsh stand towards people fighting for equality. Do you roll your eyes every time you hear a female scream rape, huh? Or an Asian American question why they are underrepresented in all forms of media and government? Black people weren't the only group that had laws passed in their favor and as long as America continues to target groups of people we will not be the last. I ask you with a heavy heart that you let go of these stereotypes cause they are the kind of tactics that the KKK use to recruit their members. Watch a documentary or two you might discover something about yourself. The subject is the N word. I'm asking for blacks to relinquish the idea that they are allowed to speak the word. Do you think Darius and Ray would be less offended if Micheal Richards said what he said using "a" instead of "ER". No cause its the meaning behind the word. White people use to say the word openly at one time but they were able to self regulate it out of their everyday speech (for the most part). Its like teaching your child right from wrong and it is capable. What you are proposing is the lazy way out. We should be held accountable of what we say and not just hope the word will stupefy into a new meaning. The word will never be accept among the ones who are intelligent enough to know that they are being criticized. I will cry when the day comes that " Way to go *N word*" will be acceptable just like you would hate for the term "Excuse me B**ch" to become  courteous.

This issue could go on forever. No one will ever really agree. Why don't we agree to disagree and shake hands? Why, because blacks (not all) will never stop the fight. I am sorry that the white man brought African Americans to America and then left us to fix what they did. I'll tell you what how about we all lay down and say mercy and let you beat us and call us crackers, will that solve the problem. I wish to God Dr. Phil would not have started this debate. I hope the next one is a debate on how whites are discriminated against. Does what I say make you mad? Do you feel that I am wrong and I don't understand the black race? Then welcome to my world.
 
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azeedra
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September 8, 2008, 7:37 pm PDT

The "bad" word

Quote From: PennyLane78

I was mulling this over while I did dishes because I have to say, so far I don't like the way this conversation is going...it seems to be missing the point...IMO anyway.

Words are words. Words can be used to convey ideas. I feel like it is useless to get upset at a WORD...however getting upset at an idea is something else.

Imagine these two things someone could say:

  • "Stupid n*****!!!"
or
  • "Black people are the cause of all the bad in our world. Slavery should be legal again."
Which one is really something to be upset about?

We had a similar conversation about the f-word a few months ago. I do not find the f-word offensive in the least. I use it when I see fit. It's a WORD.

Someone could come up to me and say one of two things:

  • "F*** YOU!"
or
  • "I hope you get killed by a rabid bear so I can dance on your grave."

Which one am I going to be more insulted by?

My point is, it's not the word, it's the idea behind it. And the ideas behind "bad" words can be conveyed with out the use of the "bad" words. So it seems silly to me to have words that are off limits.
OMG!  THANK YOU!  SOMEONE ACTUALLY GETS IT!
 
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cornell74
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September 8, 2008, 7:42 pm PDT

Rachel from the show

Quote From: manofgoods

I really think that people whoever uses the N-word (no matter what race you are) is really disgraceful & it disrespects African-Americans. Rappers, etc., shouldn't even use the N-word in the first place in their music lyrics. That's why whenever I listen to rap, etc., I usually go for the Edited versions of it, whatever it comes from buying CD's, or downloads. Plus we wonder why kids are saying things that they shouldn't be saying. It's 2008 now, soon to be 2009.

 

And I'm a African-American man myself (I'm only 26 years of age). It's time for this world to grow up, & quit living in the past.

you are the one living in the past.
 
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cornell74
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September 8, 2008, 8:13 pm PDT

Rachel from the show

Look I want everyone to know I am not a racist and I do not believe in name calling no matter what letter of the alphabet it is. But I'm sorry, whites are discriminated against so badly it isn't funny. Blacks hate the white race and that is the reason the fights continue. I hate the KKK I hate anyone who intentionally hurts another person. Look I think maybe blacks and whites just don't understand one another. No one on earth is going to understand the way I play with my husband in private but you don't have to because it is in private. There are millions of whites that agree with me but are to scared to say it. Go figure, whites are scared to stand up to blacks, maybe you can call that progress. I don't know if that is what you wanted. Look we are the people behind the people. We have no control over who puts who in magazines or on t.v We are the ones who expect to see more blacks on t.v or in magazines but don't too much. We don't know why, we figure there's a reason. But when a magazine like Ebony comes out we know why whites aren't in it and it makes us feel discriminated against. If there was a magazine that said Ivory or a show called white entertainment then I would right away catch why black would be angry. Its hard for us to understand because were just the little guys. If I was in control it would be equal of all races on t.v but I don't. I don't know who is the big man controlling who gets the job or who get in the magazine or who acts on t.v all I know is blacks hate whites and its hard for me and others to understand why. If its because of the past, we weren't there, if its because they want more equality, we don't have control over that. Go to the big guys cause all us little guys will root for you. My favorite show in the world is Fresh Prince, I love Will Smith. Allot of whites I know are all copying blacks. They want to dress like them, talk like them, walk like them. You don't see blacks copying whites. I would love to see the day I see a black man in a cowboy hat. I think whites feel closer to blacks then they realize and they hear them say it and want to say it too. No, they would not jump off a bridge if a black man did, but  my point is allot of whites really do look at blacks as roll models your too blinded by hate to see it.  I may call my white husband the N word but I would never ever say it to a black man, because if I don't like someone it wont be because the color of their skin. I may sound racist and that is not the case, I am simply standing up for myself and my race, they way you do yours.  If you want the word to disapper you need to start with your own race because that is the reason white feel ok about saying it.
 
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PennyLane78
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September 8, 2008, 9:07 pm PDT

09/12 The N-Word Debate

Quote From: cornell74

Look I want everyone to know I am not a racist and I do not believe in name calling no matter what letter of the alphabet it is. But I'm sorry, whites are discriminated against so badly it isn't funny. Blacks hate the white race and that is the reason the fights continue. I hate the KKK I hate anyone who intentionally hurts another person. Look I think maybe blacks and whites just don't understand one another. No one on earth is going to understand the way I play with my husband in private but you don't have to because it is in private. There are millions of whites that agree with me but are to scared to say it. Go figure, whites are scared to stand up to blacks, maybe you can call that progress. I don't know if that is what you wanted. Look we are the people behind the people. We have no control over who puts who in magazines or on t.v We are the ones who expect to see more blacks on t.v or in magazines but don't too much. We don't know why, we figure there's a reason. But when a magazine like Ebony comes out we know why whites aren't in it and it makes us feel discriminated against. If there was a magazine that said Ivory or a show called white entertainment then I would right away catch why black would be angry. Its hard for us to understand because were just the little guys. If I was in control it would be equal of all races on t.v but I don't. I don't know who is the big man controlling who gets the job or who get in the magazine or who acts on t.v all I know is blacks hate whites and its hard for me and others to understand why. If its because of the past, we weren't there, if its because they want more equality, we don't have control over that. Go to the big guys cause all us little guys will root for you. My favorite show in the world is Fresh Prince, I love Will Smith. Allot of whites I know are all copying blacks. They want to dress like them, talk like them, walk like them. You don't see blacks copying whites. I would love to see the day I see a black man in a cowboy hat. I think whites feel closer to blacks then they realize and they hear them say it and want to say it too. No, they would not jump off a bridge if a black man did, but  my point is allot of whites really do look at blacks as roll models your too blinded by hate to see it.  I may call my white husband the N word but I would never ever say it to a black man, because if I don't like someone it wont be because the color of their skin. I may sound racist and that is not the case, I am simply standing up for myself and my race, they way you do yours.  If you want the word to disapper you need to start with your own race because that is the reason white feel ok about saying it.
"Blacks hate the white race and that is the reason the fights continue."

Well, that is definitely something you and I will disagree on. Are there SOME racist people across the board? Yup. But ALL black people do not hate ALL white people. That's ridiculous to say.

"But when a magazine like Ebony comes out we know why whites aren't in it and it makes us feel discriminated against."

LOL! I don't feel discriminated against at all!!! Speak for yourself...LOL

"Allot of whites I know are all copying blacks. They want to dress like them, talk like them, walk like them. "

Do you REALLY? Or do they simply enjoy styles that are generally used by black people?

"You don't see blacks copying whites."

I don't see blacks and whites being so separate that this sentence even makes sense.

" I would love to see the day I see a black man in a cowboy hat."


























Do you love today yet?

"allot of whites really do look at blacks as roll models "

So....what?

" I may sound racist and that is not the case,"

You do. You seem to be upset that some white people wear clothes or do things that you consider to be "black"...and I don't know why THAT would bother you unless you felt it was beneath white people to do so.

I agree that there is too much sensitivity over the n-word...but that is only because it's a WORD.
 
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PennyLane78
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September 8, 2008, 9:26 pm PDT

09/12 The N-Word Debate

Quote From: cornell74

Look I want everyone to know I am not a racist and I do not believe in name calling no matter what letter of the alphabet it is. But I'm sorry, whites are discriminated against so badly it isn't funny. Blacks hate the white race and that is the reason the fights continue. I hate the KKK I hate anyone who intentionally hurts another person. Look I think maybe blacks and whites just don't understand one another. No one on earth is going to understand the way I play with my husband in private but you don't have to because it is in private. There are millions of whites that agree with me but are to scared to say it. Go figure, whites are scared to stand up to blacks, maybe you can call that progress. I don't know if that is what you wanted. Look we are the people behind the people. We have no control over who puts who in magazines or on t.v We are the ones who expect to see more blacks on t.v or in magazines but don't too much. We don't know why, we figure there's a reason. But when a magazine like Ebony comes out we know why whites aren't in it and it makes us feel discriminated against. If there was a magazine that said Ivory or a show called white entertainment then I would right away catch why black would be angry. Its hard for us to understand because were just the little guys. If I was in control it would be equal of all races on t.v but I don't. I don't know who is the big man controlling who gets the job or who get in the magazine or who acts on t.v all I know is blacks hate whites and its hard for me and others to understand why. If its because of the past, we weren't there, if its because they want more equality, we don't have control over that. Go to the big guys cause all us little guys will root for you. My favorite show in the world is Fresh Prince, I love Will Smith. Allot of whites I know are all copying blacks. They want to dress like them, talk like them, walk like them. You don't see blacks copying whites. I would love to see the day I see a black man in a cowboy hat. I think whites feel closer to blacks then they realize and they hear them say it and want to say it too. No, they would not jump off a bridge if a black man did, but  my point is allot of whites really do look at blacks as roll models your too blinded by hate to see it.  I may call my white husband the N word but I would never ever say it to a black man, because if I don't like someone it wont be because the color of their skin. I may sound racist and that is not the case, I am simply standing up for myself and my race, they way you do yours.  If you want the word to disapper you need to start with your own race because that is the reason white feel ok about saying it.
Actually your post is a good example of my  post before (the post about the f-word and the n-word.)

The fact that you and your husband playfully use the n-word in private doesn't lead me to think you are racist....rather it is the angry race related things you say in your posts.

So, thank you, this is a good example of my point.
 
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jaukowarrant
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September 8, 2008, 10:50 pm PDT

duhhh... Only Racist say racist words

Quote From: PennyLane78

I was mulling this over while I did dishes because I have to say, so far I don't like the way this conversation is going...it seems to be missing the point...IMO anyway.

Words are words. Words can be used to convey ideas. I feel like it is useless to get upset at a WORD...however getting upset at an idea is something else.

Imagine these two things someone could say:

  • "Stupid n*****!!!"
or
  • "Black people are the cause of all the bad in our world. Slavery should be legal again."
Which one is really something to be upset about?

We had a similar conversation about the f-word a few months ago. I do not find the f-word offensive in the least. I use it when I see fit. It's a WORD.

Someone could come up to me and say one of two things:

  • "F*** YOU!"
or
  • "I hope you get killed by a rabid bear so I can dance on your grave."

Which one am I going to be more insulted by?

My point is, it's not the word, it's the idea behind it. And the ideas behind "bad" words can be conveyed with out the use of the "bad" words. So it seems silly to me to have words that are off limits.

I don't think you understand that people draw their own conclusions when they are insulted. All your examples are implied by the other. Using the n word towards a black suggests that you have ideas that correlate with pro slavery views. Saying F* you is much like hoping misfortune befalls that person. It is funny that the ones saying the word can't be hurtful are the same ones who aren't hurt by this word. Put yourself in the other's shoes for a second and if you can't you shouldn't be commenting on something you do not know anything about. As a black man I feel the people I can identify with the most are gays and women when it comes to inappropriate terms that often get brought up in everyday speech. The double standard that black people have is wrong. Everybody saying the word openly is not wise either cause the term is found more offensive when certain people say it. The proper way is for decent people to avoid using the word. What so wrong with that conclusion? Will it end rascim, NO (niether will using it) but it will no longer divide the people claiming not to be racsit with the blacks who believe in the double standard. We are not trying to fight rascim with this debate we are trying to get on the same page as United Americans. Let the ones who are truly rascist have this word so there is no confusion.

 
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damara1210
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September 9, 2008, 12:29 am PDT

Do Not Care For...

I do not care for the word rather its spoken by a blac person or non-black person. It is a word that has no use, but to be harmful and hurtful PERIOD. I feel that since soo many people place a meaning of its own for the word that they forget the truth of Webster's meaning for it, and that is a person lacking sound mental judgement, social grace, and manners. Therefore anyone who would use such a word is the very word they are calling out.

 

I will admit I have used the word, but not in a polite or nice meaning for it, because there is no polite or nice way, I call it was I see you acting, and if you are acting like a person lacking sound judgement, manners, and social grace you ar one. Rather your black, white, asian, or alien from Mars, but the word is mean, and NO ONE should use it . It just wrong, and I was wrong for using it. I feel to call someone that word is as bad as calling a female a "female dog" or the B-word.

 

PS: I do not care if Al agrees with me or not. It's just plain stupid to use, but free speech is a part of the US Constitution for a reason, and therefore LEAVE IT THE H Double Hockey sticks alone.
 
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jaukowarrant
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September 9, 2008, 3:00 am PDT

Let go of your anger and move towards a solution

Quote From: cornell74

Look I want everyone to know I am not a racist and I do not believe in name calling no matter what letter of the alphabet it is. But I'm sorry, whites are discriminated against so badly it isn't funny. Blacks hate the white race and that is the reason the fights continue. I hate the KKK I hate anyone who intentionally hurts another person. Look I think maybe blacks and whites just don't understand one another. No one on earth is going to understand the way I play with my husband in private but you don't have to because it is in private. There are millions of whites that agree with me but are to scared to say it. Go figure, whites are scared to stand up to blacks, maybe you can call that progress. I don't know if that is what you wanted. Look we are the people behind the people. We have no control over who puts who in magazines or on t.v We are the ones who expect to see more blacks on t.v or in magazines but don't too much. We don't know why, we figure there's a reason. But when a magazine like Ebony comes out we know why whites aren't in it and it makes us feel discriminated against. If there was a magazine that said Ivory or a show called white entertainment then I would right away catch why black would be angry. Its hard for us to understand because were just the little guys. If I was in control it would be equal of all races on t.v but I don't. I don't know who is the big man controlling who gets the job or who get in the magazine or who acts on t.v all I know is blacks hate whites and its hard for me and others to understand why. If its because of the past, we weren't there, if its because they want more equality, we don't have control over that. Go to the big guys cause all us little guys will root for you. My favorite show in the world is Fresh Prince, I love Will Smith. Allot of whites I know are all copying blacks. They want to dress like them, talk like them, walk like them. You don't see blacks copying whites. I would love to see the day I see a black man in a cowboy hat. I think whites feel closer to blacks then they realize and they hear them say it and want to say it too. No, they would not jump off a bridge if a black man did, but  my point is allot of whites really do look at blacks as roll models your too blinded by hate to see it.  I may call my white husband the N word but I would never ever say it to a black man, because if I don't like someone it wont be because the color of their skin. I may sound racist and that is not the case, I am simply standing up for myself and my race, they way you do yours.  If you want the word to disapper you need to start with your own race because that is the reason white feel ok about saying it.
Lol you are making my day... let me stop laughing. Most of your rant is repeating what I already said... in your own words so I won't call plagarism.  Blacks don't need BET or JET magazine. The N word is something that needs to be addressed in the black community if we are to end the problem but you are sounding like a big hypocrit. At first you spoke how blacks are searching for special treatment and abuse the race card and now you are unveiling your belief that it is the white race that is the downtrodden and bullied. Those opinions are shared with KKK members and you are hysterically absent minded to believe that blacks and whites don't understand each other. Your close minded and misguided view that all blacks hate whites have made you the odd man out. My girlfriend and I understand each other just fine. I understand that you feel that blacks have wronged you in many ways but you can't hold a vendetta for the entire race just cause someone took your milk money as a kid. We all had our antagonists growing up and its our job to make the decision to move on from it. I hear a lot of white women feel animosity toward black females and vice versa and I think that is what you are suffering from. Woman are cruel to each other IMHO and they allow men to divide and conquer them. You speak highly of Ray, Darius and Will Smith so I'm led to believe that you are taking one issue and throwing race as the base when it just may be a gender issue. I've seen a higher volume of interracial couples now more than ever so your belief that these two American groups don't understand each other doesn't fly with me at all. The topic is the N word and who should be allowed to say it if anybody, but you are too much involved in poisoning peoples mind with paranoid thoughts that blacks are taking over the white land. This lets me and anybody else who reads your comments know that you are in no position to help heal an America that is divided by this issue.
 
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cornell74
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September 9, 2008, 7:07 am PDT

Rachel from the show

Quote From: PennyLane78

Actually your post is a good example of my  post before (the post about the f-word and the n-word.)

The fact that you and your husband playfully use the n-word in private doesn't lead me to think you are racist....rather it is the angry race related things you say in your posts.

So, thank you, this is a good example of my point.
Thank you for your kind reply. I am angry. I am angry because it upsets me so bad that this fight continues. It angers me that whites have to fight to prove they are not racist. There are allot of racist whites in the world but there are allot of whites that are not and I have felt my entire life that I have to prove I'm not racist. I like blacks have been beat up by blacks and abused by one while laying defenseless after a major back surgery and instead of looking at them like their racist I looked at them like they were just evil. If I looked at them like it was racism it could easily of made me hate all blacks. Its like this, If a dog bites a child and we tell that child stay away that is a dog and it will bite you, that child will fear all dogs. However if we tell the child that was just a mean dog to stay away from that one they will know how to separate a good dog from a bad. Every time a black is mistreated by a white they automatically say its racism. Why can't it be that maybe that white person is just a mean person?  By always yelling racism makes whites look bad. I want a black person to yell "Nice white person " every time a white is polite and fair to a black that way maybe people will see its not as bad as it looks. If whites didn't care about blacks would I be here busting my butt and wasting my time with this discussion. A real racist would make a crude remark on the board and then go away and say I'm not wasting my time with that crap. Dr Phil is having this debate because the word is being used by people in a friendly way now and most people think its wrong. I think its wrong if its being used to hurt another. You know what, I live right outside of Detroit and Detroit is pretty much emptying out because there are just no jobs there. Now where I live is pretty much 45% black. I told my husband that I was so happy to see that blacks and whites are starting to live together. I feel the world has come along way and it gets better and better but every time a black yells discrimination it puts us another step back. I am voting for Obama, I think he has what it takes to make a real change. However I feel most blacks are voting for him because his skin color, that bothers me allot. I agree there are not enough blacks on t.v. I noticed now when I turn the channel there are tons of whites and not enough blacks but I also believe if we all stop yelling about discrimination and just learn to separate the good from the bad, we will then be acting as equals and get along better. Because we won't feel that sense of separation. I have no clue why t.v and magazines have mostly whites in it. I do know that this white neighborhood never said blacks couldn't live in it. Then were forced to because there are no jobs and the mayor trashed the city and so they move into the white neighborhood and everyone is getting along fine. I think blacks have more options then they realize or are willing to admit. No one is holding them back but themselves. Some of the most famous people in the world are black. I just wish we would learn to understand one another.  I feel blacks need to take a moment to listen to how we feel and whites need to listen more to how blacks feel. Blacks are not going to get what they want completely until they too learn to understand whites and get along, it is then and only then that we will be equal. Once we are on a level where we are past yelling racism then I believe I will turn the channel and see both blacks and whites. Not just black shows or white shows but black and white shows. If you noticed whenever there is a black show they do the same whites do, its all black with a sprinkle of white. If they truly wanted to be and equal why not start by being the bigger race and showing that they can have a show with both races or creating a magazine with both races instead of ebony. In doing that they would be the better person. That would create all the progress in the world. They have more power then they think. I'm finished. Oh one more thing, I do not speak for whites I don't know nor do I speak to all blacks, we all know if we relate to something or not. If you can't relate or don't feel the same way, thats expected. No one could ever ever speak for everyone only through experience and we all experience different things therefor we all look at the world differently. So don't write back yelling "I'm white and I don't feel that way", if you don't then don't worry this doesn't refer to you so move on to something that does.

To the crazy lady that loves to chop up and grind my words in the ground. Have at it, child.
 
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