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Topic : 11/27 Extreme Moms

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Created on : Friday, September 26, 2008, 01:14:58 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard3

(Original Air Date: 09/29/08) Parents: Is it better for your children if you're a helicopter mom who hovers over them, or a hands-off mom who allows them to learn independence? This hot-button topic has sparked debates across the country. Lenore is a mom who says kids need more freedom so they can learn to survive in the world. To prove that children are more adept than most parents think, she left her 9-year-old son, Izzy, in a New York City department store with $20, a subway card and a map. Was he able to find his way home safely? Some moms, like Maria, say Lenore's actions were extreme. Maria, a mother of three, says she's constantly hovering over her children, especially her 17-year-old daughter, Madeline. Is Maria doing more harm than good? You won't believe what Madeline has to say! Next, hear from Sarah who admits her 12-year-old and 8-year-old sons are almost never more than a few steps away from her, and comedienne Daphne Brogdon who says helicopter moms need to "let go and lighten up." Then, Dr. Jim Sears, co-host of the new show, The Doctors, weighs in with the biggest health risks of being a hovering mom. And, follow up with Ashlee and her mom, Teresa, who first appeared (link to: /shows/show/595/ on the show to discuss Teresa's overprotectiveness. Five years later, Teresa says Ashlee is a rebellious and rotten teen. Ashlee, now 17, wants to go to college and live in a dorm room, but her mom won't let her. Does Teresa have valid concerns for keeping Ashlee on a short leash? If you're a parent, or about to become one, you don't want to miss this show! Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.


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October 3, 2008, 4:55 pm PDT

Way to go!

Quote From: caholloway

I am a hands-off mom.  I believe if you don't teach your children while they are young,  you are going to keep them forever. My sons are 11 and 8 y.o.  They get up everyday for school by their own personal alarm clocks. They make their own breakfast and off to school. I never have to get out of bed.  My boys know the routine well.  After school they use their own house keys to get in...even if I'm home.  The boys come home 15 mins apart.  They know to get their snack and sit and do homework.  They do all their assignments first that they can handle and then ask for help on whats left.  I make dinner 3-4 times a week (depending on work schedules).  Once a week the boys will make a meal. It might be simple one, but they cooked it.  They have mastered....eggs,  grilled cheeses and soup,  raviolis or speghetti,  chicken nuggets/strips and fries, etc.  The point is they are learning responsiblity and they will never go hungry.  After dinner they know to take their showers at their times and they know where the dirties go.  They know their room is to be cleaned before they leave for school or no TV for the entire day.  So they make sure it is done for bed.  They set their alarms and they go to bed when its time.  We are always around and can assist when help is needed.  They are always given a hug and a kiss before bed and told I LOVE YOU. 

 

My children do not get paid for doing CHORES around the house.  That is their right to live here.  CHORES consist of cleaning their rooms,  making sure their bikes and toys are put away outside, and up keep of their play area in the basement.  Once in a while they vaccum or dust and even take the trash out or unload the dishwasher. 

They do get paid for going above and beyond though. They are taught if you do a good job and work really hard you will get a paycheck.  When my boys work in the garden or pull weeds in the flower beds,  wash our trucks for us,  etc.  They will get a couple of bucks for this.  the yougest boy will even go to the neighbors and ask to pull her weds for $5.00.  The lady paid him $7.00 because he did a great job and she even helped him. 

 

I don't feel giving them room to grow is wrong.  There are too many in society that choose not to work and bum their entire lives and I refuse to allow my children that path. 

 

My boys are also educated in other survival skills. they know first aide and CPR.  They know what to do when someone is bleeding or if someone was to fall and how to protect their neck and back.  They know how to call 911 and all their data they will need to tell him.  They can name 5 close friends of the family and their phone numbers in case they ever needed something. My children have been taught about disease and how they could get it and how to stay safe when helping someone else.  I am a NREMT-B and I have prepared my children for life.

You sound like you are a fantastic mom and I totally applaud you!   Too many moms do everything for their kids and it's not right.     By teaching your kids responsibility at a young age you prepare them for life when they leave home... attend college and have to "fend for themselves" 


 
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October 3, 2008, 5:22 pm PDT

You are totally right!

Quote From: angel111999

This woman is a bad example of a "Mother".
As I have said before she needs counseling on "how to be a better parent"
The bottom line is..... she was "wrong". She was so irresponsible! There are better ways of teaching a child "independence"
With all the "crap" that goes on in this world especially NYC - Why would she drop her child on a subway and tell him "find your way home"  at the age of 9.    I agree that kids can learn "independence" and responsibility...but that was way too much!   I agree she was wrong to do that  and should be charged accordingly. (too bad "felony stupid"  isn't a real charge)
 
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October 3, 2008, 5:38 pm PDT

You did right...

Quote From: marianrfb

Although I do not regularly follow my child, when my suspicions are aroused, I may.   I do expect for him to tell me where he is and for him to be there, which has not always been the case.  He NOW knows that I may very well phone a parent or drive by to see where he is.  He has not always been where he said that he is.  He has not always been sober either!  I make no apologies for checking his texting and finding that he is driving down the interstate and texting at the same time (yes, the texting service was immediately suspended). I believe that if I can discourage negative behaviors before they become ingrained, then maybe life will not degenerate.  I make no apologies for doing what I feel is in his best interest and to be a responsible parent.
While I do not agree with "Helicopter" parenting --- what you do when your suspicions are aroused is totally correct.      I do not have kids nor do I want any but i would not snoop in my daughter's diary or read my son's emails / texts etc unless he/she has given me suspicions.  If my intuition was aroused and I suspected something amiss then Damn right I would read the diary or an email or a text and deal with it accordingly.    As far as the texting-while-driving goes  - good for you suspending the text service was the best thing you could have done (other than taking away his car keys)  Your last line "I make no apologies for doing what I feel is in his best interest and to be a responsible parent."   That was one of the best things I've ever read in a while.    How many parents make 'threats or give punishments' and then either don't follow through with their punishment,  or  if they give a 3 week punishment they give the kid their preiveliges back after only 1 or 2 because they feel bad for 'distryoing their life '  because they got the car priveligdes taken away as a punishment
 
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October 3, 2008, 5:55 pm PDT

09/29 Extreme Moms

Quote From: caholloway

I am a hands-off mom.  I believe if you don't teach your children while they are young,  you are going to keep them forever. My sons are 11 and 8 y.o.  They get up everyday for school by their own personal alarm clocks. They make their own breakfast and off to school. I never have to get out of bed.  My boys know the routine well.  After school they use their own house keys to get in...even if I'm home.  The boys come home 15 mins apart.  They know to get their snack and sit and do homework.  They do all their assignments first that they can handle and then ask for help on whats left.  I make dinner 3-4 times a week (depending on work schedules).  Once a week the boys will make a meal. It might be simple one, but they cooked it.  They have mastered....eggs,  grilled cheeses and soup,  raviolis or speghetti,  chicken nuggets/strips and fries, etc.  The point is they are learning responsiblity and they will never go hungry.  After dinner they know to take their showers at their times and they know where the dirties go.  They know their room is to be cleaned before they leave for school or no TV for the entire day.  So they make sure it is done for bed.  They set their alarms and they go to bed when its time.  We are always around and can assist when help is needed.  They are always given a hug and a kiss before bed and told I LOVE YOU. 

 

My children do not get paid for doing CHORES around the house.  That is their right to live here.  CHORES consist of cleaning their rooms,  making sure their bikes and toys are put away outside, and up keep of their play area in the basement.  Once in a while they vaccum or dust and even take the trash out or unload the dishwasher. 

They do get paid for going above and beyond though. They are taught if you do a good job and work really hard you will get a paycheck.  When my boys work in the garden or pull weeds in the flower beds,  wash our trucks for us,  etc.  They will get a couple of bucks for this.  the yougest boy will even go to the neighbors and ask to pull her weds for $5.00.  The lady paid him $7.00 because he did a great job and she even helped him. 

 

I don't feel giving them room to grow is wrong.  There are too many in society that choose not to work and bum their entire lives and I refuse to allow my children that path. 

 

My boys are also educated in other survival skills. they know first aide and CPR.  They know what to do when someone is bleeding or if someone was to fall and how to protect their neck and back.  They know how to call 911 and all their data they will need to tell him.  They can name 5 close friends of the family and their phone numbers in case they ever needed something. My children have been taught about disease and how they could get it and how to stay safe when helping someone else.  I am a NREMT-B and I have prepared my children for life.

That's great that you had your children learn first aid.  But there is a lot more to parenting than training.  Why did you have kids if you don't even want to get up in the morning with them.  You have them trained like dogs!  And the price of living in your home is love, not chores.  The chores are not payment in kind, they are a method to teach children responsibility.  I think your parents should have taught you more!
 
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October 3, 2008, 9:04 pm PDT

Msg for Ashlee

I have a msg for Ashlee...

 

I understand EXACTLY what you are going thru with your mom...trust me. 

You will never win with her.. obviously.  She has deluded herself into thinking that she can do a better job in living your life. She has lost her mind... no luck at getting it back. 

 

Take this from a person that had not one but TWO parents exactly like her. 

Bide your time... do well in school...get into college and get the HECK OUT!

 

You will have no happiness while in her power so do what is in your hand to move out, safely and wisely. 

My parents did exactly what your mom did.. even going so far as sabotaging my admission into a college in NY.  (Which was my life's dream)  When I did go to college (close to home of course) they dictated every move I made...right down to my major.  When I finally rebeled at 19 and decided I did not want to be a doctor and went instead into Nursing...they disowned me!  I stood my ground and I am a happy successful nurse today. 

 

They do what they do for their own selfish little reasons.  Let her deal with her insanity. 

It's time to go out and get yours!

 
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October 3, 2008, 10:38 pm PDT

obsessive compulsive disorder?

 Seems to me that hovering moms are exhibiting classic obsessive compulsive behaviors, which are meant to reduce their anxiety. I think that they need treatment for their anxiety and obsessive behaviors, which would involve choosing over and over to refrain from the behaviors until they are given up completely. Just as those who wash their hands compulsively learn to wash them only when necessary for cleanliness, those who hover over their children must learn to take reasonable precautions and stop there.
 

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October 4, 2008, 8:51 am PDT

I think you are over-reacting a bit!

Quote From: angel111999

I CAN'T BELIEVE A PARENT WOULD LEAVE THEIR 9 YEAR OLD
SON IN A N.Y. CITY DEPARTMENT STORE WITH $20, A SUBWAY CARD AND A MAP.
BEING WITHOUT PARENTAL SUPERVISION IS A FORM OF "ABUSE".
IN THIS DAY AND AGE, THERE ARE CHILDREN BEING ABDUCTED
THAT ARE STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO THEIR PARENTS. WHY DOES SHE THINK SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO SOMETHING LIKE
THAT TO TEACH HIM "INDEPENDENCE" WITHOUT THINKING THAT SHE MAY BE CAUSING HIM HARM? THERE ARE SO MANY SEXUAL PREDATORS LOOKING FOR AN OPPORUINITY TO
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OF A CHILD ALONE LIKE HER SON IN NEW YORK CITY!!!!
THERE ARE BETTER WAYS OF TEACHING YOUR
CHILD "INDEPENDENCE".
THIS WAS NOT THE RIGHT WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SHE NEEDS TO GO TO SCHOOL TO LEARN HOW TO BE A
PARENT..........NEEDS TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "RIGHT" AND "WRONG".
WHEN YOU ARE A PARENT, YOU MUST BE "RESPONSIBLE" NOT "IRRESPONSIBLE"!!!!!!!.
While I don't entirely agree with the mother who let her son lose on the NEW YORK subway, I wouldn't say she was abusing him, either. If a child is intelligent and resourceful, exercises like this can be a learning experience as long as they have been engaged in an active dialouge with their parents about "stranger danger" starting at an early age.

You are also forgetting a very important fact: that child molestation and abduction is almost ALWAYS perpetrated by someone the child and his/her family KNOWS! Sadly, too often it occurs within the child's own family. There was a case of incest in the family right down the street from us 15 years ago, and we live in what most people would call "a nice, white, middle-class suburb."

Was I "abusing" my daughter by letting her go to Girl Scout camp a few years ago? When she came home, she told me that one her bunkmates was a "cutter," and was trying to get the others girls in the cabin to do it, too. But because my daughter and I had already talked at length about various "what-if" scenarios, my daughter was able to distract the distraught bunkmate, seize the sharp object, and then run for one of the counselors, making sure all the "non-cutting" bunkmates came with her. At all times, she was concerned that nobody, including the emotionally distraught girl or her other roommates, would get hurt. The girl's parents were notified immediately and she was sent home.
 

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frustrated
October 4, 2008, 8:59 am PDT

Please Turn Down the Volume

Quote From: gabbytabby

 YA KNOW ..... I DO HAVE SOMETHING TO TAKE PRIDE IN AND THAT IS  MY KIDS.  I THINK I AM SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THE TWO EXTREMES, BUT I DON'T LIKE HEARING SOMEONE SAY THAT OTHER MOMS HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO. IT IS NOT THAT THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO DO, IT IS THAT NOTHING, AND I DO MEAN NOTHING, IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR KIDS.    NOTHING.
To each his/her own opinion, but if you can yell at us like this on the board, how do we know that don't yell this at your own kids?
 
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October 4, 2008, 12:20 pm PDT

Extreme Moms

Quote From: gabbytabby

 OK, SERIOUSLY, DR. PHIL WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? YOU DON'T MESS WITH A MOTHERS INTUITION. AS MOTHERS WE KNOW OUR CHILDREN BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. HOW CAN YOU TELL US TO JUST LET THEM GO??  WHAT IF SOMTHING HORRIBLE WERE TO HAPPEN NOW TO THOSE KIDS YOU HAD ON THERE, WOULD YOU FEEL BAD??  WE LIVE WITH OUR KIDS EVERYDAY, WE KNOW HOW MATURE THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY CAN HANDLE AND WHAT THEY CAN NOT HANDLE. THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY SICK, SICK DEMENTED PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE WORLD AND WE NEED TO FIRST AND FORMOST PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM THESE NASTY PREDITERS.  MY JOB AS A MOTHER IS TO TEACH MY KIDS RIGHT FROM WRONG, PROTECT THEM, AND DO MY BEST TO MAKE THEIR LIFE BETTER THAN THEIR DADS AND MINE, TO GIVE THEM ACCESS TO OPPERTUNITYS THAT WE DID NOT HAVE, TO LEAVE THIS WORLD A BETTER PLACE THAN WE FOUND IT. I WAS RAISED HEARING THIS PHRASE...."YOU RAISE YOURS THE WAY YOU WANT AND I WILL RAISE MINE THE WAY I WANT."  NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT??? MY MOM WAS NEITHER OVERPROTECTIVE  OR PASSIVE, SHE STILL TAUGHT ME MANY THINGS ABOUT MEN, AND I HAD MY GRANDMA AND GRANDPA TO TEACH ME RIGHT FROM WRONG AND WHAT LOVE REALY WAS. THANK GOD I GOT TO WATCH THEM AND BE WITH THEM ALOT BECAUSE MY MOM AND DAD WERE DIVORCED WHEN I WAS  SEVEN AND FAUGHT ALOT. I MYSELF HAVE BEEN TOLD BY SCHOOL TEACHERS THAT I AM OVERPROTECTIVE BUT MY DAUGHTERS THERAPIST SAYS THAT I AM DOING A GREAT JOB. MY DAUGHTER HAS O.D.D. AND IT CAN BE A CHALENGE SOMETIMES.  HOWEVER I BELIEVE THAT WHEN WE LET OUR KIDS GO AT AN EARLY AGE THAT IT OPENS DOORS TO DOING ADULT LIKE BEHAVIORS AT A MUCH EARLIER AGE.  I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO MENTOR MY NEIGHBOR GIRL WHO IS 15 NOW AND HAS BEEN SMOKING SENCE SHE WAS 11, AND NOT JUST CIGARRETTS. THIS IS BECAUSE NO ONE PAYS ATTENTION TO WHAT SHE WAS DOING THEY JUST LET HER GO. I SAW THE SAME THING IN MY HUSBAND HIS PARENTS DID NOT PAY ATTENTION SO HE WAS DOING DRUGS AND ALLKINDS OF THINGS STARTING AT AGE 9, YES 9 YEARS OLD!  THAT WAS ALL BEFOR THIS TIME OF TECHNOLOGY, NOW IT IS WORSE WITH ALL THE TECHNOLOGY.  I HAVE ATTRIBUTED THE TEACHERS SAYING THAT I AM OVERPROTECTIVE TO THE FACT THAT MY KIDS AREN'T HAVING SEX LIKE THE OTHER 5TH GRADERS AND SMOKING AND JUST PLAIN ACTING LIKE IDIOTS. MY 12 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER STILL THINKS THAT BOYS ARE STUPID AND GROSS SO WE MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT.   I AM SURE SOMEONE OUT THERE WILL AGREE WITH ME.

 

I agree with you to a certain point, although, sometimes a mother's instincts are not always right.  I know mine weren't.  I do sympathize with you about your daughter having O.D.D.  I have two daughters, one is 28 and one is 23.  My 28 year old has ADD and ODD, which she was diagnosed with when she was in junior high.  We tried everything with her, counseling, medication, court intervention, discipline.  Nothing helped.  She started smoking cigarettes and pot at the age of 12.  She was in and out of group homes from the ages of 13 to 18.  It wasn't because she didn't have the attention and it wasn't because we gave up and just let her do what she wanted.  As a matter of fact  sometimes we focused so much on her and her issues and gave her so much attention that, at times, we didn't give our younger daughter enough.  Four years ago, our older daughter got addicted to heroin.  She has been in Los Angeles since March (we live on the East Coast) and has gone through a 90 day treatment program, sober living, and is now working and living on her own, and, has been clean for six months.  She has come a long way, and, so has our relationship.  In contrast, our younger daughter, was a model child gowing up.  We gave her very little restrictions.  She always did the right thing.  She was aloud to have sleep overs and go to sleep overs from the time she was in 5th grade.  Neither me or my husband ever hovered over her.  We basically let her make alot of her own choices when we felt she was old enough to do so and she always made the right ones.  She did her homework every night without being asked and she was a straight A student, she cleaned her room without being asked, and did her own laundry from the time she was a teenager and there was no allowance either.  It was what was expected and she abided by that.  When she went out, she always came in by 11:00 p.m. on weekends and 9:00 p.m. on weekdays without ever having a curfew.  She just knew what the right thing was to do and she never gave us any reason to doubt her.  She always appreciated our faith in her judgments, and, she tells us now that one of the reasons she always did the right thing is because, we didn't question her decisions.  Sometimes less can be more.  She is 23 now, graduated with honors from college and has a full time job, is living on her own, paying her own bills, and she has her own responsbilities, and, is now looking into attending graduate school.    It is not always the parents fault if a child becomes rebellious.   I blamed myself enough, but, I have done everything I can as a mother to help my older daughter, and, I have no regrets.  It took me a long time to get to that point.  I know I made mistakes, but, doesn't everyone?  However, you can't look back.  You can only move forward. 

 
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October 4, 2008, 4:26 pm PDT

Extreme Moms

Parents, there is a happy medium!  The first Mom, turning her son loose with $20, is so happy with herself it makes me sick.  Does she even know about Shawn Hornbeck?  Grabbed from his bike, at just about the age of her "subway riding son", held captive for FOUR years, brutalized, sodomized, and found only after a witness saw the creep grab another young man to add to his "stable."  The police followed the witness's info, and found both young men.  Can you imagine Shawn's emotional health??  I can't remember the young man's last name, but the first name was "Johnny", it was all over the news years ago, he was grabbed from his newspaper route, never to be seen again.  Nearly 15 YEAR later, he managed to escape from his captor: he made his way to his Mom's door (she'd never moved, in hopes of his coming back) saw her once, and said his life was so damaged--he'd been used as a sex slave, pimped out to other pedophiles for nearly 15 years) that he knew he'd never be able to live a normal life again.  I believe Oprah had him on her show once.  Then he disappeared into oblivion, as he wanted to.  Being so cavalier about your son's safety is absurd.    The second mother was smothering her daughter.   You do have to give them a respectable amount of freedom/trust, teach them what to look out for, to be aware of who is around them, or following them, but do NOT "turn them loose" as the first mother did.  As Dr. Phil pointed out with his map, there were scores of pedophiles in the vicinity of where she left her son!  The son's cavalier attitude mirrors what his mother has planted.  In their early teens, my 2 sons were playing basketball in an alley a block away from home (a good neighborhood), came home and told me a man kept coming by when they were playing there, watching them, complimenting them on their skills.  The next time they went to play there, I waited a little time, then drove right over, there was the guy, I told the boys it was time to "go get the shoes at the store", and we left.  He saw that I was right there, watching over my sons, I never let them go back, he never came back to my knowledge.  Bottom line:  he was up to NO GOOD.  My son's knew what to do in telling me.  They, too, sensed something was wrong. 
 
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