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Topic : 12/26 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

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Created on : Friday, September 26, 2008, 02:43:44 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard3

(Original Air Date: 10/03/08) It’s being called the ultimate form of child abuse -- brainwashing your children against an ex-spouse to win custody. Could you be harming your child emotionally and not even know it? First up, Ken is a successful surgeon who says he’s the victim of parental alienation syndrome (PAS). He says he hasn’t seen his 14-year-old son since last October and claims his ex-wife destroyed what was once a loving father-son relationship. Mel Feit, director of the National Center for Men, says Ken’s situation is a classic case of kids being turned against their father, but family law attorney Liz Kates says PAS is a phony tactic used by some men to get out of paying child support. What does Dr. Phil think? Then, Karen lost custody of her children after she was accused of parental alienation syndrome by her ex-husband. Karen maintains her innocence, so why were her parental rights terminated when her daughters accused her ex of sexual abuse? Plus, 19-year-old Demi joins the show via Web cam and says her father verbally abused her mother during their divorce. Now, she fears that her 15-year-old sister is caught in the middle. Find out what you can do if you’re caught between sparring parents. And, meet a father so desperate to see his young children, he kidnapped them from his ex-wife and went on the lam for two years. Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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September 28, 2008, 3:43 pm CDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: betrlife4kids

I too although looking back can see it was extreme emotion, but would have moved to another country to keep my then three young children from visiting their biodad.  I always told my boys that their biodad had problems and they should pray for him.  I did everything humanly possible to not speak at all about the ex-it did no more than raise my blood pressure.  I feel that him shooting himself, the law being called at least weekly to break up druken fights at his home, and also being stabbed late night in the bad side of town<okay hear you go Dr. Phil--doesn't take a brain scientist to figure that one out> The biodad hasn't seen the boys regular at all maybe 10-15 times in over 10 years; the younger two children don't even know that their biodad shot himself--so don't go telling me I've brainwashed anyone.  The oldest knows because unfortunately he was on the phone with his dad when the whole scene played out. Yes I could of lied to what was then around 9 year old child but at that point the child needed to know that mom was not going to lie to him and tell him straight - to sugar coat anything at that time would be setting the child up for many more heartaches.

 

Warning here-- as we all know not everything is always as it seems-there are lots of reasons some of these deadbeat dads want to claim this--sometimes the other parent who has accepted the responsibility has to protect the children-at whatever cost it takes.

 

Oh by the way I received the invite to be in your audience and would love to accept ;however,  being the single parent with three great children-oldest is a Junior in college-middle is Sophmore in High School-and youngest is 13 in 8th grade, I don't have the funds to arrange that.  Yep you guessed it the biodad does not, never has and probably never will pay child support - hey that's what being a deadbeat dad is.  And the boys and I have accepted that; yes some may say that is not good for children I say ,"Would you have rather the children been in the car the night he was stabbed or at their dad's home asleep and left alone or left along the path with the shady characters that having this type of problem brings around?"

 

No it's not a perfect solution--it took two to bring MY wonderful boys in the world but it has only taken ONE to raise them into what they are today--we don't live in a perfect world.  I would put the boxing gloves on in a heartbeat if the biodad tried to come back for visitation after all these years but reality is he doesn't want to he really just wants to sit around and try to make people feel sorry for him, and play on people's sympathy that his exwife will not let him see the boys.

I'm sorry about your situation but that's not what PAS is about.  PAS is about lying to children in order to control them and the situstion.  Men AND women can be guilty.  When it comes to Equal Parenting, it is between two fit, caring people.  When PAS rears it's ugly head, that parent is obviously NOT fit or caring and does not deserve to be any part of their child's life.
 
September 28, 2008, 4:08 pm CDT

letting my son find out for himself

Quote From: jules1965

One thing I NEVER did was bad-mouth their father to them, near them or even at all! It serves NO PURPOSE except to harm your own credibility!

 

I always figured it this way. I laid down and made these children and obvious I didn't do that alone.

So there was some 'attraction' or something for that to happen.

 

Why would I EVER let what might be my own personal opinion, harm the relationship between my daughters and their father.

 

I raised my daughters to be SMART and to make their own decisions and have their own opinions.

 

I figured that sooner or later they would draw their OWN conclusions without ANY input from me.

 

When my ex was over 7K in child support arrears and wanted to visit.......he visited regardless of my bank account.

I took care of my children very well WITHOUT that money and those girls saw me work 3 jobs for many years to take care of them.

 

I wasn't going to let a few dollars stand between my daughters relationship with their father!!

 

Fast forward, I have 2 mid-twenty year old daughters who have formed their OWN OPINION about their father. It isn't positive but HE did that on his OWN and I did NOT have to get involved!

 

Thankfully me and the ex were FRIENDS first and friends third.  We've always been able to talk to each other rationally.

 

I always thought that the MORE PEOPLE that LOVED a child the better off that child would be. Their relationship can be (and should be) a separate entity.

Thankfully I was able to do that for my daughters! They do appreciate the way they were raised as they have thanked me many times.

 

BTW, my ex hung himself with his behavior and now he has no contact with the kids. SAD FOR HIM!!

My son's father & I divorced when my son was 2 (my son is 18) because he would not get a job to support his family he was always the one that screw the system and got away with it -when he left he left me for another women I told him I didn't care about his personal life, he had a responsibility to our son. 

When my son was 13 he wanted to live my his father I was apprehensive but my son did not know his father as I did because I protected him  from that-His father and wife (the women he left me for) used my son and made mine & my boyfriend (I have since married him) life a living hell.

 I fought for 2 yrs to get my son back. They (my x & his wife) had the financial means to hire a attorney, I didn't. Judges do not like it when you represent yourself. My x commited perjury and forged documents and was going to have me sent to jail. I asked the judge for a 5dy repreive so I can prove he lied. I did prove it and he was not held accountable. I finally received back custody of my son (he was 15) but he was  mentally and emotional abused.

 My son had a breakdown and was hopitalized twice. I later found out that while my son was living with his father the FBI raided the house because he was part of an oxycotin rings and spent some time in jail. I ask one question over and over why didn't let our son come home instead of allowing him to witness this. 

My son missed so much of scholl he dropped out but receive his GED and instead of a senior in HS he is a freshman in college studying Criminal Justice he wants to be a policeman so one day he could arrest his father. I stil do not badmouth his father unfortunately he found out for himself  

 
September 28, 2008, 4:09 pm CDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: stargazermum

To all the non beleivers  who say PAS doesnt exist, well my friends it hasnt happened to you or someone you love because that is the only way you can believe.  I myself never even heard the term until my children were already extremely affected by it.  That is one common theme in PAS,  the target parent may be in denial and does not nip it in the bud.  Also to all who believe that it doesnt happen to good moms, think again.   Family courts are not doing what is in the best interest of the child but rather what is the easiest path of least resistance to take.  Then, throw in a parent who has manipulated and poisioned the minds of their own flesh and blood and you have a winner take all scenario.  It saddens me that people still doubt that this insidious form of child abuse exists. 

AMEN TO THAT!  I agree that people who don't believe PAS exists haven't experienced it first hand and I would even add to that, that many of those people turn out to be the ones who justify that it's "good parenting" to "save" their children from a parent who has defects THEY can't stand.  They just can't admit or won't admit that deep down, they are the ones who are hoping the children agree with them and see the same thing they see wrong with their ex-spouse and it's them who don't want to do the shared parenting thing because it does take a lot of work and compromise to make it work.  Especially when there's a new partner.  It's almost like they wish the ex would agree to let this new person take over their role.  It would be so much easier for the children to have a "normal" family with two parents in the home.  And I agree about the court system.  As soon as you try to help your children from this horrendous abuse by going where you're supposed to go to help them, you get the feeling you're living the Little Red Riding Hood story and you're at the part where the granny turns into the wolf!  We have a long way to go before the changes that need to come about are made and I know it probably won't happen in my life time or in time to help my son who I haven't seen in three years but I'll guarantee this:  I will NEVER stop wanting, loving and fighting for my child and for this plague to be exposed for what it is!

 

 
September 28, 2008, 4:32 pm CDT

blame game

When will people wake up and look at their action .In this case the one that are crying foul are the one that walk out. Ok use the child to get back at them is silly .But do people sit and think children have a voice maybe the children don't want to go and see the father or mother that walk out . maybe they are hurt just as much as the one mother or father that is left behind to raise them.

My ex want to see his son on his own and the courts made it clear he not allow . he does have a crimal record that is why.

My ex never bond with his  son from day one right up  to the day we slipt up . and bang i want to be in his life . OK one thing he fail to show up for visit due to his new gf didn't want him to leave her. Never got him a birthday gifts christmas gift,complian everytime he show up for a visit the cost in travel and he was tried .My son face all the excuses my ex threw at him. No phone to say sorry i not comming and left me sit there deal with one upset boy that would be waiting at the door.All this pain in the butt  I had to deal with . I

Now I don't talk about his father usless my son want to talk about him and I listen to what he said  .I never trash if . it tell my son that it not his fault for the break up . You can force someone to be something when they don't want to .

ASad news is that my son turn and told me that he never like his father gfs and when they visit in a contact center he told me he dad always got a new woman and busy mucking around with her.Now my son sit in the contact center and wait for him to show up and he fails to do it due to he got a new wife and a child.

I face all the blame for the non contact due to my son didn't want to go .I dont sit and tell my son don't go .I don't force him . My son can pick if he want to see his dad any. So far my son his happy not to.

 

Second My son spend alot with my brothers that taught him well and show him how to respect people. I could never ask for family to help me when it was hard. But to the father out there make a enough and stop be the one that blames the other for your own mistakes. Be a father from day one not after the slipt. if you did that you would not be in this mess.

 
September 29, 2008, 12:38 am CDT

abusing the legal system by filing fake allegations

Quote From: bleu21

Parents engage in PAS (both men and women) are abusing the legal system by filing fake domestic violence petitions and child abuse allegations.  These same individuals feel that any action even falsifying official documents are justified-  just as long as as the alienator gets the kids.  Too often, the innocent parent is devasted and appears emotionally upset in court-  while the alienator is calm as a cucumber.  What happens is that the judge rules for the calm parent (although the allegations are false) taking the children away from the parent who is upset and actually cares the children.

 

Whats worse;  even when the victim parent proves to the Court that the alienator parent committed perjury by filing false documents--  nothing ever happens to the alienator.  Thus the law needs to be changed that any bad faith domestic violence petition, or child abuse allegation automatically is against the best interests of the children.

 

Just so every one knows;  my ex husband, an attorney has filed multiple bogus domestic violence petitions against me.  One was that domestic violence was going to happen in the future.  Another that marching in public with a sign was domestic violence;  I was convicted of domestic violence on that by a judge who had multiple ex parte communications with my ex husbands attorney.

Don't be sad. I was in the same situation with you. so what keep me going this day, is to think lots of positive ways. After all, let's think the blessing of you own new life was free from this controlling freak. The children will grow up and soon their want to have their own life. Just keep believing that God is listening to our prayer and stay faithful to Him.
 
September 29, 2008, 8:43 am CDT

If you don't believe it you haven't lived it!!

My husband and I have been together for 20 years, his parents my in-laws seperated and divorced almost 16 years ago, my husband was 18, his brother 15 and thier little sister was 4. Let me just say that until today I didn't know there was a name for what my mother-in-law did to my husband and his siblings. My brother and sister-in-law had to deal with this everyday they were in that house, my husband was already out of the home, so they have been affected by PAS much deeper, with my sister-in-law suffering the worst.  Divorce is hard on kids but when one parent is bound and determined to break the bond between the other parent and the children it takes on a whole other level of UGLY!!!  If you have never lived through it it is very hard to understand.  Kids no what thier age love both parents and should never be made to feel bad or punished for loving both of them, regardless of what the parents did to each other during thier marriage.  In our situation my mother-in-law has an "unspoken" rule that if you are not on her side or if you remain nuetral then you are excommunicated, so to speak, from her life.  Currently my mother-in-law is not speaking to any of her children(or her 2 daughter-in-laws), and what's worse is she has 5 granddaughters that she no longer has anything to do with.  So PAS has now affected a second generation in our family.  It is a very sad thing because we all love her and would like to have her in our lives but I guess in reality her attempts to alienate my father-in-law have now backfired on her and she is the one who has ended up alone. 

 
September 29, 2008, 9:42 am CDT

PAS is bogus

PAS was created by a man who was pro-pediphilia; written by a man who self-published; it was never tested and is now being abused. The biggest problem with PAS is that it gives a ready defense to abusive men. So now, protective parents are being punished and abusive parents are given custody. We must look at the overall picture. Sure, some women and men badmouth their exes. Sometimes it's deserved, sometimes not. Alienation can be the result of the parent's OWN BEHAVIOR and can be a result of abuse. However, it's not a syndrome. Credible organizations have determined that. Moreover, the group that touts PAS is the FAthers Rights Movement. They also claim MMS - malicious mother syndrome,  SAID - sexual allegations in divorce, HAP - hostile aggressive parenting and LLS - lying litigant syndrome.  MISOGYNY, folks. At every corner, the man is innocent and the  woman is nothing but a maliciuos liar. NO man has ever commited abuse, women are vindictive liars. THis is their propaganda. Furthermore, they sue shelters, attack VAWA, call rape accusers liars, attack feminists. ARE you going to promote their agenda? Are you going to deny abuse exists and give people ready-made pseudo-scientific excuses for their behavior? ARe you willing to set the clocks back on gains made in the area of family violence? This is what you must ask yourselves.
 
September 29, 2008, 9:54 am CDT

False allegations are rare

Look at the American Bar Association - http://www.abanet.org/domviol/custody_myths.pdf False allegations are NOT common and men are found to make them more often than women (Bala & Schuman, 2000). This is a SMEAR CAMPAIGN from the misogynist fathers righters. They deny male violence; only tout female violence; call all women making claims of violence false accusers. Google "false accusations", a slew of web sites, catering to fathers, have arisen for monetary gains. Family violence is real; it cannot be denied away. It cannot be blamed on malicious, vindictive women. This group is often called the "Abusers Lobby" -- for a reason. They spread their hateful propaganda in order to change public perception. Abusers are now gaining custody of children. Women have fleed the country or gone to jail to protect their children. Some have simply been left dumbstruck by a system that so wilingly hands over kids to abusive parents. Rape survivors are NOT immune either. FR groups claim women make false allegations agst men for vindictive reasons and "imprison innocent men. ONLY 13% of rape cases end in conviction as it is. THIS GROUP IS SETTING BACK GAINS FOR FEMALE VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE. See Dr. Michael Flood, XY Online; the Leadership Council; Stop FAmily Violence; check with any Domestice Violence agency and watch the gooseflesh rise as you mention the FAthers Rights Movement. ......
 
September 29, 2008, 10:53 am CDT

My children have been brainwashed against me.

I am the parent and the x has done this to me. We are 4 years divorced. It was a bad marriage and a worst divorce. When I was served with the papers. I was sitting down with my two minor children. Who asked all the time. "Are you getting a divorce"? When the x came in. Got between the children and I, covering their ears and eyes. Praying in the name of "Jesus" not to let my children hear me. Well I said her name and reach out and twisted her nose. Long story short got arrested and was never able to return home again.

Fast forward the divorce is final. I have 50% custodianship and 30% custody. But it didn't work out that way. My children’s mom has refused every order in the final decree. And has refused to co parent with me after the divorce. In 2006, during a custody exchange. She backed me into my truck. As she is nose to nose with me. She threatens to "Get Rid Of Me Permanently" In front of my minor daughters. Long story short. When the police interviewed them they lied. And when they interviewed a second time they lied as well. On July 2 2008 we were to begin our vacation. But instead I get a call from cps. Telling me I am under investigation for abuse. And I can't see my children and I needed to go in.

I had the girls the weekend prior to the July 2 vacation schedule.

We had a normal parental moment that Friday night. I always talk things through with my girls quickly. So there are no hurt feelings. And we had a fine Friday night. And on Saturday we were headed to the pool. But the girl’s bathing suits were too small. So we go to their mom's to get their bathing suits. I see through the screen mom standing over them. Shortly after they came out. They seemed normal and we go to the pool.

That evening my youngest had an inflamed throat. So I take them to the er. Had a fantastic fun visit at the er

And the inflamation had gone down. I called the "X" and ran down the information to her.

fast forward to the cps phone call. So on Tuesday. July 1st, I get a call from cps telling me I can't see my children and I need to go in to see them.

I do... And watched the x enter, stopping at the receptionist. And then coddles my children in to a safe room. Please, my children have not even had corporal punishment from me.

The first two cps visits were hurried, things were not explained. I wanted to know the charges. Burt they couldn’t tell me. So... we attend 4 mediation visits at cps to find a solution to a problem that wasn't there.

A problem the “X” created.

Fast forward, all cps mediation meeting failed. The wanted me to accept something that wasn't true.

No educated man would.

3 months later I am in children’s court. And they keep changing the charges. I go there and I am told by other attorneys, staff members that this case does not belong in these courts.

But the Judge is playing hardball. That would be fine if it was warranted. It isn't.

So I have this story, brought to cps by the X who has practiced parental alienation the 4 years we have been divorced. So now I am in Children’s court. They keep changing and making things up.

Because I did not do anything. I have no record or police involvement over the 10-year marriage except for the nose tweek. I paid dearly for that nose tweek. The court, even though I had not been arrested as an adult. And I was 46 at the time wanted to bury me so the x could get custody at that time. Well I pled to a disturbing the peace charge. ON the X's insistent they made me go through 1 year of anger management and 3 years probation.

Got through it... thought I was home free. She gets remarried. Now she is being divorced buy her current husband. Because he told me.. he is walking in my shoes.

I have watched cps change the charges against me many times. They want to make me an endangerment to my children for the same nose tweek that got me removed from the home 4 yrs earlier.

Because of all of this I recently had to go through the entire divorce documentation.

In doing so I found a lot of court manipulation by the x and her big dog attorney.

This is the problem. When the divorce started the x put my two daughters in therapy.

I didn’t realize what kind of therapy it was. It was therapy with the premise that they had been abused.

They hadn't but the X is an incest survivor. An abused woman in her mind. So professionals have counseled my children for 4 years that their dad is abusive. And now trumped up charges are made against me again. And the children are lying to protect their mom.

Let me give you a little history about the X. When I met her she was suing the Episcopal Church because she was having an affair with a priest. She was in therapy because of her childhood. She was married to an addict and she was not able to have a child.

She had numerous miss-carriages and a still born at 7 months.

The marriage was hard and in the end prior to her serving me with divorce papers She had a substance abuse problem. I began an intervention for her and our family. I ended up in Alinon, therapy and just tried to be for there for my family.

Well the divorce came. The divorce was made into a nasty custody battle. She has practiced the worst case of parent alienation imaginable. And now she is retrying custody in children’s court.

And my experience with cps and children’s court is that they are having their way with me.

And I haven't seen or spoken to my children at their mother’s insistence sine June.

I need help... and I cannot seem to find it.

It has affected my health, my finances, and my relation ship to daughters. I seriously need help.
 
September 29, 2008, 1:29 pm CDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

i agree. my father cheated on my mom ended up having a son, ended up marrying the psycho and getting divorced just a year after that second marriage. The only time he'll call me or my twin sister is when he wants us to either babysit my 1/2 brother or to come over for a family dinner with the rest of his family to make it look like he's got the picture perfect family. My mom never bad mouthed him or alienated us from him. I know now it's my choice if i want to see him or not, but as a kid i didn't have that choice I had to live with him every so many weeks or whatever the deal at the time was.

 

 

 
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