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Topic : 12/26 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Number of Replies: 954
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Created on : Friday, September 26, 2008, 02:43:44 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard3

(Original Air Date: 10/03/08) It’s being called the ultimate form of child abuse -- brainwashing your children against an ex-spouse to win custody. Could you be harming your child emotionally and not even know it? First up, Ken is a successful surgeon who says he’s the victim of parental alienation syndrome (PAS). He says he hasn’t seen his 14-year-old son since last October and claims his ex-wife destroyed what was once a loving father-son relationship. Mel Feit, director of the National Center for Men, says Ken’s situation is a classic case of kids being turned against their father, but family law attorney Liz Kates says PAS is a phony tactic used by some men to get out of paying child support. What does Dr. Phil think? Then, Karen lost custody of her children after she was accused of parental alienation syndrome by her ex-husband. Karen maintains her innocence, so why were her parental rights terminated when her daughters accused her ex of sexual abuse? Plus, 19-year-old Demi joins the show via Web cam and says her father verbally abused her mother during their divorce. Now, she fears that her 15-year-old sister is caught in the middle. Find out what you can do if you’re caught between sparring parents. And, meet a father so desperate to see his young children, he kidnapped them from his ex-wife and went on the lam for two years. Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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September 29, 2008, 1:39 pm CDT

About lying

Quote From: saludevil

I'm sorry about your situation but that's not what PAS is about.  PAS is about lying to children in order to control them and the situstion.  Men AND women can be guilty.  When it comes to Equal Parenting, it is between two fit, caring people.  When PAS rears it's ugly head, that parent is obviously NOT fit or caring and does not deserve to be any part of their child's life.
PAS is not recognized.  Also the parent who is claiming that alienation is going on says this because there have been allegations of abuse.  Just because an allegation is not proven does not mean it did not happen.  I was absued and so was my child by my ex husband, yet because we coulkd not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, he says he is now innocent.  I can give you names of people who witnessed his abuse, people to whom he admitted abusing me, and more.  I cannot help the fact that these people were not allowed to tell thier story concerning me.  As far as my daughter is concerned, I will talk to her about the abuse we endured if she wants, I will tell her that her father has severe issues and no man should be allowed to abuse, and no I will not hold anything back from her.  This is PAS/PA in your book - at least according to the supposed professionals I have encountered.
 
September 29, 2008, 1:43 pm CDT

SHE is the mother

Quote From: marylandmary

...that I believe PAS exists. My husband, Dan, and I have been together for almost 8 years. This is my first marriage and his second. He and his first wife had two children. His first wife left the marriage in 1995, after meeting someone on the internet . She had no resources or plan to support her children. She struggled with emotional and financial problems while living on her own. My husband had custody of both children after she left, though she had visitation. In addition, she paid NO child support.

 

Flash forward to 2001 when I met my husband....everyone is getting along OK, first wife re-marries and moves about 30 miles away. My husband and I get serious and make plans to get married (all this time the kids are living with him and see her once every other weekend, which was her choice, at her new home). Well, as soon as Dan and I bought our new home and started making plans for the future with the kids (from vacations to choosing and paying for college), this women went nuts! She started telling lies about Dan to the kids, particularly my step-son, sendiing me e-mails accusing me of being a childstealer, among other things. She made it very difficult for the kids, and us, and all this time she is still didn't pay a dime of child support!

 

For the next five years she continued to lie, evaded child support ,and  voluntarily impoverished herself by quitting her job as a school teacher to go back to school to get a Master's Degree! Can you believe it? So while this is all happening, she is continuing to tell my stepson, who was 15 through 19 at the time, what a horrible father and stepmother, Dan and I were. One night in January of 2006, after an argument with his dad, my stepson left the house, called her, went to live with her and for ALMOST A YEAR didn't speak to us! Through all this craziness, her craziness, Dan "took the high road" and refused to stoop to her level. I was so angry...angry that she had a $27,000 child support bill reduced to $4,400 (She told my stepson that Dan and I were trying to financially ruin her by enforcing the child support order - WHAT?!?) , angry that she alienated my stepson from his Dad, his older sister and me, angry that she went out a bought a BMW Mini-Cooper, while my husband and I are both working full time and sacrificing to pay for braces, college, car insurance, clothing, cell phone, you name it.

 

Now that my stepson is a Junior in college, I think he "gets it". He has distanced himself from her, but as he has said to us, he feels "sorry for her". My step-daughter is cooly cordial toward her and has no desire to have a mother/daughter relationship, but that has come with a cost to my stepdaughter's trust and self-esteem. I believe that their mother's own insecurities, fear of loss, selfishness and envy of us and our relationship as a family made her alienate herself from her children through the veil of PAS.  I can't be responsible for her "choices" and it is a shame that during the most critical period of her children's lives, their teen years, she pitted them against us as a way of being in control, because she had no control over her own life. Sometimes, I think PAS is self-induced and we all pay for it. 

Have you ever wondered what part you play in all this?  She made choices but these are still her children.  What part do you think you played in overstepping your bounds as a stepmother?  A stepparent shoudl STEP BACK AND PARENT.  It is not their job to take over only support bio-mom and bio-dad in their job.  As far as her going back to school, if she feels this will help her in the long run of obtaining better employment, then why should she not be able to do so?  Apparently the father has been able to care for the kids this long.  PAS/PA supporters are angry about the money, angry they have to pay when they do not have kids with them, and angry they don't get it when they have kids.
 
September 29, 2008, 1:50 pm CDT

Nose tweak?

Quote From: nightrider_57

I am the parent and the x has done this to me. We are 4 years divorced. It was a bad marriage and a worst divorce. When I was served with the papers. I was sitting down with my two minor children. Who asked all the time. "Are you getting a divorce"? When the x came in. Got between the children and I, covering their ears and eyes. Praying in the name of "Jesus" not to let my children hear me. Well I said her name and reach out and twisted her nose. Long story short got arrested and was never able to return home again.

Fast forward the divorce is final. I have 50% custodianship and 30% custody. But it didn't work out that way. My childrens mom has refused every order in the final decree. And has refused to co parent with me after the divorce. In 2006, during a custody exchange. She backed me into my truck. As she is nose to nose with me. She threatens to "Get Rid Of Me Permanently" In front of my minor daughters. Long story short. When the police interviewed them they lied. And when they interviewed a second time they lied as well. On July 2 2008 we were to begin our vacation. But instead I get a call from cps. Telling me I am under investigation for abuse. And I can't see my children and I needed to go in.

I had the girls the weekend prior to the July 2 vacation schedule.

We had a normal parental moment that Friday night. I always talk things through with my girls quickly. So there are no hurt feelings. And we had a fine Friday night. And on Saturday we were headed to the pool. But the girls bathing suits were too small. So we go to their mom's to get their bathing suits. I see through the screen mom standing over them. Shortly after they came out. They seemed normal and we go to the pool.

That evening my youngest had an inflamed throat. So I take them to the er. Had a fantastic fun visit at the er

And the inflamation had gone down. I called the "X" and ran down the information to her.

fast forward to the cps phone call. So on Tuesday. July 1st, I get a call from cps telling me I can't see my children and I need to go in to see them.

I do... And watched the x enter, stopping at the receptionist. And then coddles my children in to a safe room. Please, my children have not even had corporal punishment from me.

The first two cps visits were hurried, things were not explained. I wanted to know the charges. Burt they couldnt tell me. So... we attend 4 mediation visits at cps to find a solution to a problem that wasn't there.

A problem the X created.

Fast forward, all cps mediation meeting failed. The wanted me to accept something that wasn't true.

No educated man would.

3 months later I am in childrens court. And they keep changing the charges. I go there and I am told by other attorneys, staff members that this case does not belong in these courts.

But the Judge is playing hardball. That would be fine if it was warranted. It isn't.

So I have this story, brought to cps by the X who has practiced parental alienation the 4 years we have been divorced. So now I am in Childrens court. They keep changing and making things up.

Because I did not do anything. I have no record or police involvement over the 10-year marriage except for the nose tweek. I paid dearly for that nose tweek. The court, even though I had not been arrested as an adult. And I was 46 at the time wanted to bury me so the x could get custody at that time. Well I pled to a disturbing the peace charge. ON the X's insistent they made me go through 1 year of anger management and 3 years probation.

Got through it... thought I was home free. She gets remarried. Now she is being divorced buy her current husband. Because he told me.. he is walking in my shoes.

I have watched cps change the charges against me many times. They want to make me an endangerment to my children for the same nose tweek that got me removed from the home 4 yrs earlier.

Because of all of this I recently had to go through the entire divorce documentation.

In doing so I found a lot of court manipulation by the x and her big dog attorney.

This is the problem. When the divorce started the x put my two daughters in therapy.

I didnt realize what kind of therapy it was. It was therapy with the premise that they had been abused.

They hadn't but the X is an incest survivor. An abused woman in her mind. So professionals have counseled my children for 4 years that their dad is abusive. And now trumped up charges are made against me again. And the children are lying to protect their mom.

Let me give you a little history about the X. When I met her she was suing the Episcopal Church because she was having an affair with a priest. She was in therapy because of her childhood. She was married to an addict and she was not able to have a child.

She had numerous miss-carriages and a still born at 7 months.

The marriage was hard and in the end prior to her serving me with divorce papers She had a substance abuse problem. I began an intervention for her and our family. I ended up in Alinon, therapy and just tried to be for there for my family.

Well the divorce came. The divorce was made into a nasty custody battle. She has practiced the worst case of parent alienation imaginable. And now she is retrying custody in childrens court.

And my experience with cps and childrens court is that they are having their way with me.

And I haven't seen or spoken to my children at their mothers insistence sine June.

I need help... and I cannot seem to find it.

It has affected my health, my finances, and my relation ship to daughters. I seriously need help.
I am sorry (and I do not know how to pare down the quote either so forgive me), but you reached out and put your hands on another individual in violence.  So even if this is just the first time you did this (alkthough I highly doubt it - nose tweaking is done in order to not leave bruises, yet still get the point across about who is in control), you are still not a fit parent.  And you go on to prove that by bringing in everythjing bad you can about your ex and airing it in a dirty laundry sort of format.
 
September 29, 2008, 3:12 pm CDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: neenna66

I am sorry (and I do not know how to pare down the quote either so forgive me), but you reached out and put your hands on another individual in violence.  So even if this is just the first time you did this (alkthough I highly doubt it - nose tweaking is done in order to not leave bruises, yet still get the point across about who is in control), you are still not a fit parent.  And you go on to prove that by bringing in everythjing bad you can about your ex and airing it in a dirty laundry sort of format.
I was just told by the dependency court - the nose tweek was not dv. Now I get to go back and correct that injustace.

When I was at cps. The x's case worker grabbed the documents in my hand and started pulling on them in front of everybody.

Isn't that DV?

Judge Paul, Los Angeles superior court.

Referred to it as "the infamous  nose tweeking case.

he also.... said, I have no record. The other city could make a parking ticket out of it if they wanted

I have all documentation proving all that I say.

So I am not interested in your man hating point of view.

My children and I have a serious problem.

And I told my  story  like many others have.

Do you judge all of them....

It might be wiser since your oppinions are not fact. To show some curtisy and understanding for other people ploblems.

If if you can not find anything positive to say or something you know to be true. Stay out of it.

It adds to the grief!

 
September 29, 2008, 3:33 pm CDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: neenna66

I am sorry (and I do not know how to pare down the quote either so forgive me), but you reached out and put your hands on another individual in violence.  So even if this is just the first time you did this (alkthough I highly doubt it - nose tweaking is done in order to not leave bruises, yet still get the point across about who is in control), you are still not a fit parent.  And you go on to prove that by bringing in everythjing bad you can about your ex and airing it in a dirty laundry sort of format.
I was just told by the dependency court - the nose tweek was not dv. Now I get to go back and correct that injustace.

When I was at cps. The x's case worker grabbed the documents in my hand and started pulling on them out of my hands, in front of everybody.

Isn't that DV?

Judge Paul, Los Angeles superior court.

Referred to it as "the infamous  nose teeking case".

he also.... said, I have no record. The other city could make a parking ticket out of it if they wanted

I have all documentation proving all that I say.

So I am not interested in your man hating point of view.

My children and I have a serious problem.

And I told my  story  like many others have.

Do you judge all of them.... or just mine

It might be wiser since your oppinions are not fact. To show some curtisy and understanding for other people ploblems.

If  you can not find anything positive to say or something you know to be true. Stay out of it. It adds to the grief!

 
September 29, 2008, 3:36 pm CDT

I have a partial answer

One of the major issues is that their is so much rapped up in child custody.  False allegations of child abuse, child support, etc.  I propose that the courts have the "Presumption of 50/50 Joint Physical Custody" except in instances of proven abuse and one parent is deemed as an unfit parent. 

    My ex-spouse falsely accused me of stepping on my son's neck.  CPS only had to spend 5 minutes with my son and ask him if it really happened to find out the truth, but they were not willing to admit that they could have possibly made a mistake.  It's kind of like the death role inmate that has DNA evidence that he didn't commit the murder.  No one in the system has a vested interest in seeing him freed.

  One of the things that I have decided to do is to change my name to protect my children and then go public.  I am going to take the audio transcript from the court child custody hearing, remove any personal identify information and then publicize it.  I just don't think most people believe that what actually happens in a family court room could possibly happen.  Bob Hope III

 
September 29, 2008, 3:44 pm CDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: nightrider_57

I was just told by the dependency court - the nose tweek was not dv. Now I get to go back and correct that injustace.

When I was at cps. The x's case worker grabbed the documents in my hand and started pulling on them in front of everybody.

Isn't that DV?

Judge Paul, Los Angeles superior court.

Referred to it as "the infamous  nose tweeking case.

he also.... said, I have no record. The other city could make a parking ticket out of it if they wanted

I have all documentation proving all that I say.

So I am not interested in your man hating point of view.

My children and I have a serious problem.

And I told my  story  like many others have.

Do you judge all of them....

It might be wiser since your oppinions are not fact. To show some curtisy and understanding for other people ploblems.

If if you can not find anything positive to say or something you know to be true. Stay out of it.

It adds to the grief!

Also...

The factual past of somebody and their character is very important.

So I shared some important facts.

I am hoping to find some resources here.

Not hate

 

 
September 29, 2008, 3:50 pm CDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: bobhope

One of the major issues is that their is so much rapped up in child custody.  False allegations of child abuse, child support, etc.  I propose that the courts have the "Presumption of 50/50 Joint Physical Custody" except in instances of proven abuse and one parent is deemed as an unfit parent. 

    My ex-spouse falsely accused me of stepping on my son's neck.  CPS only had to spend 5 minutes with my son and ask him if it really happened to find out the truth, but they were not willing to admit that they could have possibly made a mistake.  It's kind of like the death role inmate that has DNA evidence that he didn't commit the murder.  No one in the system has a vested interest in seeing him freed.

  One of the things that I have decided to do is to change my name to protect my children and then go public.  I am going to take the audio transcript from the court child custody hearing, remove any personal identify information and then publicize it.  I just don't think most people believe that what actually happens in a family court room could possibly happen.  Bob Hope III

amen.....

I am doing the same.

I almost have every digitized.

I'm goig to put on the net.

people need to know what is actually happening there.

Just like anything else put it in the light. So others may see it.

Good luck.

 

 
September 29, 2008, 6:31 pm CDT

Doctor Phil Show

By Brain Doctor My Parents Phil/Robin Washed. Doctor Phi/Robin I hope that you and Robin are not brain--

washed your kids when they were growing up. See you on Friday October 03rd, 2008. Sincerley Your.--------

Russell Vlaanderen.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

 
September 29, 2008, 7:13 pm CDT

a legal construct masquerading as social construct

I'm hopeful that influential talk show hosts will see both sides of this issue.  One is that alienation happens every day but no more than it ever did, which respected research shows is 1% - 3% of all sexual abuse claims, (and a bit more when all abuse categories are considered in custody disputes) but Parental Alienation (with or without the word 'syndrome') is a legal counterclaim to divert attention from abuse allegations, whether or not the alleged perpetrator of abuse is guilty or not.

Say "Alienation" today and VOILA!: Case closed, investigations cease and children's voices are heard no more. A child here was (allegedly) murdered by his father (trial is pending) and and a mother here killed herself because the "cure" for "PAS" was given to her -- ie. they took her children away from her, not for awhile, not for months, but forever. That's happening to families in our agency. PAS is alleged disproportionate to the 1 - 3% (certainly under 10%). How did "mothers" (80% - 90%of  the time it's mothers said theorist Dr. Richard A. Gardner) all of a sudden become pathologized, and their children, as well??

Six child advocates have just released a book: Child Advocacy 101: Essays on Child Protection in America (Bridgewood Press, Phoenix).Three essays are written by me on "PAS," for an indepth look by parents, professionals, and especially Family and Juvenile court judges.  Our State Attorney General and a respected psychologist have written positive reviews. I'd enormously appreciate and value getting the information on "PA[S"] out. Thank you.

 
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