Topic : 12/26 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

My husband has been affected by Parental Alientation Syndrome and his ex-wife has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder.  What happened to us and especially to him and the little sister his other kids will never know, should NEVER happen to anyone. 

At this point his daughter most likely will end up being diagnosed with a Personality Disorder and she will never receive the psychiatric help she desperately needs.  She begain cutting herself about 1 1/2 years ago because of the environment in her mother's home.  Now even after being court ordered to get her daughter help, she still refuses to do it.  That is just the tip of the iceberg.  All we can do is spend more money to file a contempt motion, but that still won't guarantte my stepdaughter will ever get the help she needs.

as is stands right now, due to PAS, my husband still does not know if his daughter continues to cut herself and what ever started it.  He knows absolutely nothing.  Everytime he asks he is told it is none of his business, to go ask her.  But neither one of them can tell the truth, because they no longer know the difference.  We are now in family counseling trying to find a way to cope with what has been done to her. 

I can't say whether or not this is a syndrome, but I can say undeniably that it exists.

The blonde woman who says that this occurs around the time of the divorce, and stops after a few years is out of touch with reality.

My parents divorced when I was 10 years old.  My mother did nothing but trash talk my father up until the time that Alzheimer's got the best of her and she couldn't remember who he was.  By my reckoning that was, what....say 30 years!!!  My favorite was if she disapproved of something I did or said, she'd say "Well I have to remember that half your genes are your fathers."  (Thank goodness.)  It was probably the nicest compliment my mother ever paid me.

Did it change the way I feel or felt about either parent?  No.  I'm one strong-willed cookie.  Did it damage my relationship with either parent?  You betcha!  It hurt my relationships with BOTH parents.

Let's see if I can elucidate with some examples.

The courts gave my dad Christmas Eve and my mom Christmas day.  I had no say. 

Christmas Eve evening when I'd get home from my dad's the inquisition would begin? 

Whatever food was served would be criticized.  Presents criticized.  The harangue would continue through till the damn tree came down.  At lease once every Chrismas season she would remind me that where she came from (Germany) their important day was Christmas Eve and it just wasn't fair.  Hogwash.  Before my dad left Christmas day was the big day in our house.

My mom would dictate letters for me to write to my dad.  I never worried about whether or not my he thought it was me.  My dad was a smart guy.  I was a smart kid.  English was my mother's second language.  She was quite fluent, but she never used language like a native.

Whenever I'd come home from spending time with my dad, there was always an inquisition.  What did his apartment look like?  Does he have furniture?  Where did you go?  What did you do?  Did he buy you anything?  Did he say anything about school clothes?  NEVER was there a Did you have fun? thrown in!  Whether or not I had fun was irrelevant.

When I was old enough I pulled back emotionally from my father and spent little time with him.  I DID NOT choose to love one parent more than the other.  To this day, with both of them deceased, I love them both.  In fact I was there at their bedsides, both of them, when they passed away.  So why did I pull back?  SELF PRESERVATION!!!!  No amount of enjoyment I could have with my dad was worth what I had to put up with when I went home.

She didn't just pull this crap with me either.  I remember my mother trying to tell my sister's 2-year-old daughter at her younger brother's christening not to follow those people (my dad and his 2nd wife); they're not nice peope.  For months after that my mom then had the nerve to try and put me in the middle of that argument too--to choose sides between my sister and her. 

Does it piss me off that I was brought up this way?  Sure, but I'm my own person now.  Did it pose challenges for me in life?  Of course it did.  What do you do when one parent says I won't come to your wedding if HE's there?  You invite them both.  That's what you do.  You make everyone welcome.  That's what you do.  And when the day comes and the bride's mother doesn't come to the wedding what do you do?  You cry BEFORE you put on your makeup, you hold your head up proud because you did the right thing inviting both, and you walk down that aisle with your father.  The wedding still happened, people still celebrated, and my 12-year-marriage is happy and rock-solid.  The person who missed out the most is the one who made the poor decision, but it was hers to make.

Does parental alienation exist?  Yes.  Is it a form of abuse?  Undeniably.  Does it cause irreperable damage?  Yes.  Does it leave permanant scars?  Yes.  Why would someone do it?  Well, Dr. Phil said because someone is majorly pissed.  That's part of it.  In my case it is because my mom was both majorly pissed AND a paranoid schizophrenic--one of the worst kinds--one of the ones that gets by in society able to fly under the radar.  One of the kind that all the mental health reforms in the 1960s made it impossible to help, because they have RIGHTS.  One of the kind that live their lives unassisted by medical science....allowed to procreate....and Fxxx with the minds of their progeny.

After having said all that, I feel it is important to add that most days I'm pretty happy with myself.  In fact...I'm quite fond of me.  I wouldn't be the person I am today if my mom hadn't been the rotten parent that she was.  There are good lessons even in bad examples.  God bless you Mom and Dad.  I miss you both.

Steffani

You are so right!  All situations need to be looked at objectively with open eyes and minds.  We have not only seen what jumping on the band wagon can do with ADHD, but also remember Austism was originally blamed on "bad mothers" in the early 1970's.  Many mothers lost custody of their children due to many upstanding professionals whom used their opinions surrounding their views, talk about a disservice to the children as well.  Let's not let this become an avalanche, how horrible that one seems to think that permanent removal of children from whom they believe is the alientating parent is the right choice.  With that kind of view, it is awfully scary thinking that if these people happen to be placed in another difficult situation, that they would use such "eye for an eye" type of retaliation. 

I was reading the other posts about this and thought I was in the twighlight zone.  Unfortunately the lawyer that was on the show was not very eloquent in her arguments and Dr. Phil bulldozed over her.  I think the semantics are very important and it is important to resist calling this a "syndrome".  There are sets of BEHAVIORS to explore on both sides of this issue and it is just as likely that the parent making the accusation of parental alienation is the one being retaliatory.  Calling it a syndrome will  dilute the issue and allow people and the courts to slap a label on an issue with a lot of gray area.  Remember years ago when ADHD awareness was raised and nearly every kid with a behavior problem or an excitable nature was diagnosed and put on Meds?  I think you risk the same type of scenario if you don't look at subtle, individual characteristics in each situation.  Now I am a therapist and believe in the importance of correct diagnosis but I think it is important not to rally on the latest bandwagon. 

The people on this post have an absolutely valid argument that there are sometimes real and tangible reasons for a child to choose loyalty to one parent over the other and it is even HEALTHY to do so.   I also think that we do a disservice to our children to gloss over the very destructive and yes abusive behaviors of some parents (on both sides of this issue and with attention to age appropriate discussions with the child).  Who would have this conversation with their child: "Mom/dad-I don't want to visit dad /mom.  He/she always puts me down and ignores my feelings."  "No honey, dad/mom really loves you and visiting him/her is what you should do."?  Talk about codependency and invalidating a child's sense of self worth!

Dr Phil,

as a divorced dad of 5 children, whose mom is suffering with a BORDERLINE,

but has an "excellent" divorce lawyer similar to the like s of Liz Kates,.....

My kids are neglected, inappropriatley "punished" ( one of my boys was nearly "beaten to death", as mom wrote to "G-d" in my agenda, they were kept away from me for nearly 2 years, etc... )

I TRULY and SINCERELY appreciate your "hardball" approach towards her.

Although you smile, and act releived after making a point,....this is not material to smile about.

I compare her actions to a pedophile (child abuser ) who sells her perversions for profit ( greed).

Similarly, Ms Kates protects her client best interests, knowing full well the child is being mentally abused.

Further, sher most likely earns a rich living, by distorting reality, and ignoring the childrens best needs.

So, she becomes rich, at the expense of the childrens birth right, education, future sanity.

It is HIGH time, divorce lawyers are taken out of the child custody situation.

It is HIGH time divorce lawyers like Ms Kates who perpetrate lies and hatred, while ENABLING child abuse, for their own profit,....be CRIMINALLY CHARGED and be made an example of.

my best regards to you, your family and all those who read this.

peace to all from Hank in Montreal.

I invite anyone to learn more about this bogus syndrome and the misogynists (it doesnt matter how many women are victims, it's still junk science based on the allegation that the mother & child are liars; provides a ready defense to abusers; it used in the propaganda machine that also uses MMS (malicious mother syndrome) and the likes)......http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?code=2561018&menu=c10400&no=383438&rel_no=1&opinion_no=1&page=&isSerial=&sort_name=&ip_sort=

This movement is based on lies, half-truths, negative stereotypes and woman bashing.

My mother decided she wanted a divorce and bad mouthed my dad every chance she got. She broke every one of Dr. Phil's 5 rules of what not to do during a divorce. I can remember her standing behind me on Christmas eve when my dad was supposed to have my brother and I for the holiday - she was hissing at me, telling me to tell him that I didn't want to go and neither did my brother. After he left, all I did was cry because I did want to spend Christmas with him. I was a "daddy's girl" and when given an unpressured choice of who I wanted to spend time with, it was always with him.

He moved back to his home state of Michigan because she defied court orders and rarely let us see him. She refused to let us visit him during the summer per the orders. She never let up in over 40 years. She was so angry and manipulative that when I was 17, I picked up the phone and called my grandmother to get my dad's phone number. I called and told him that I had to get out of the house (heck, I was even willing to get married to get away!) and that I wanted to come and live with him, my stepmother, and my two younger stepbrothers in Michigan. I was on a plane the next day. The only communication I had with my mother the year that I lived with him was phone calls, where she refused to forward my mail, and was just as nasty about him as she'd been when I was 10. I did return to California, because I wanted to go to school, and it was much cheaper - it wasn't long before I moved out of her house again. I did move back one more time, then married so I had an escape (proved to be a bad move 16+ years later, but that's another story).

I didn't invite him to my wedding because my mother said "If you invite him, I won't come!" making me choose between them once again. When my son was born, I hadn't contacted my father for 8 years, but finally realized what she'd been doing to my brother and me all those years and decided that I was entitled to both of my parents, and re-established contact with him. Two years later, she found out that I was not only talking to my dad, but had gone back with my son to visit the family. She spent the next two years hanging up on me whenever I called just to try and have a relationship with her. Even when she finally realized that she wasn't in control of my relationship with my father, she still kept bad mouthing him to both my brother and me. My brother never did catch on, he was so brainwashed (he's 2 years younger than me).

35 years after the divorce, she still spewed venom at the mention of him. There was many a time that I had to declare that I wasn't going to listen to her, and actually left suddenly during a visit. She was incapable of having a rational discussion about him, even when I pointed out that it was MY FATHER she was talking about - but she just kept on and on.

My dad died on Christmas morning in 2003, about a week after I was diagnosed as severely bipolar I , rapid cycling, and looking back the doctors were able to see when I started exhibiting symptoms. My mom, the psychiatric nurse, didn't recognize the symptoms, and of course, my father didn't either (no medical background). I spent that Christmas doped to the gills just to get through it, and didn't tell my mother. Why would I? It would only increase my pain to see her saying that finally got his "just desserts". She found out the next day, and called me and had the NERVE to tell me that if I wanted to talk about it, she was there for me. How in the heck she expected to have a conversation with me about my dad now that he was dead, when she couldn't when he was alive, I've never been able to figure out. He's been gone almost 5 years now, and she still bad mouths him every chance she gets. For God's sake, he's DEAD!!!! She doesn't understand that my relationship with her is mostly out of duty, as she is one of my "triggers" for a manic or depressive episode. I subsidize her rent, and bought her the mobilehome she is living in, so now I'm a "loving" daughter - which she only sees now that she's 84, and dependent upon me for a decent place to live. She has no idea what a love/hate relationship she designed for us.

She not only alienated me and my brother from our father, but from all our other relatives on both sides of the family, and managed to cause a permanent rift between my brother and me because of our differing viewpoints on our father. Of all the people in the world, she's been the one to cause me the most pain, without having any sort of balance in the relationship where she gave love unconditionally - there was always that string attached - if I loved my father, then I didn't love her. I'm now 52, and still struggling. I look back on my attitude when I was younger during the divorce, and shortly after that, and I'm ashamed of what I thought, even though I know now that I wasn't to blame - she was brainwashing us.

I miss my dad so much, and do blame her for the lost years. I do feel lucky that I was able to grow up enough to mend my relationship with my father, and did see him frequently after my own divorce, and did see him a few weeks before he died. My brother has lost the opportunity forever to rebuild a relationship with our father, and doesn't even recognize his loss.

To this day, she doesn't understand the damage she's caused to a lot of relationships because of her actions, and doesn't really realize why I can't spend time with her, even though she knows about my mood disorder. I'm still very, very angry with her about this, and as a result spend a lot of time in therapy dealing with this and other issues, most of which stem from decisions I made while under duress from her.

As Dr. Phil says, wait until that child realizes what's been going on, and the backlash begins. I've finally accepted that she loves me as much as she's capable of (which isn't much), and that she'll never let go of her hate and bitterness, so I'd better be prepared to turn my back and walk away when she starts up again. It took a long time to realize that she was mentally and psychologically abusing us - and still does.

I hope that any of the parents out there reading this realize that they ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT INVOLVE THEIR CHILDREN IN THEIR DIVORCE!!!! The damage it causes is irrepairable, and will continue to color their children's actions and thoughts for the rest of their lives.

Put your children first - I know from sad experience what it's like to be put last...