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Topic : 12/26 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

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Created on : Friday, September 26, 2008, 02:43:44 pm

Author : DrPhilBoard3

(Original Air Date: 10/03/08) It’s being called the ultimate form of child abuse -- brainwashing your children against an ex-spouse to win custody. Could you be harming your child emotionally and not even know it? First up, Ken is a successful surgeon who says he’s the victim of parental alienation syndrome (PAS). He says he hasn’t seen his 14-year-old son since last October and claims his ex-wife destroyed what was once a loving father-son relationship. Mel Feit, director of the National Center for Men, says Ken’s situation is a classic case of kids being turned against their father, but family law attorney Liz Kates says PAS is a phony tactic used by some men to get out of paying child support. What does Dr. Phil think? Then, Karen lost custody of her children after she was accused of parental alienation syndrome by her ex-husband. Karen maintains her innocence, so why were her parental rights terminated when her daughters accused her ex of sexual abuse? Plus, 19-year-old Demi joins the show via Web cam and says her father verbally abused her mother during their divorce. Now, she fears that her 15-year-old sister is caught in the middle. Find out what you can do if you’re caught between sparring parents. And, meet a father so desperate to see his young children, he kidnapped them from his ex-wife and went on the lam for two years. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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hunterterdog5

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October 3, 2008, 8:54 pm PDT

PAS IS VERY REAL

i am a mother who has been involved 3 custody modifications with the fourth one just continued. our child willbe 18. it started 8 yrs ago with my ex husband remarrying a person 11 yrs older than our child, two yrs after our divorce he filed for custody, our child was 9 and there i was left with nothing everythign had been stripped from me. I sat for 5 days in court watching the judge pay no attention to our case and fillout marriage certificates and fill out other papers and on the 5th day a decision came down i lost all custody, no time for the judge to review any of the testimonies that were heard. That is when the PAS started to get even worse, our child was not allowed to spend the night, come over for any family activities, go on vacations. It was even worse when our child started calling this new wife her mother. after my ex having custody for about two years our child came to me and told me that her step mom had held her down, sat on top of her and even put her hand over our childs mouth to where she could not breathe, she also grabbed our child and pulled her out of the bath for taking to long and repeatedly hit her on her naked body. with our child asking for her dads help he did not he allowed it to continue, you wld think thank god for social services but they wound up not following up on anything other than interviewing our child on the doorstep with her step mom on the other side. so after the initial 2yrs of being with her dad, i filed for custody as there were many other incidents that have been going on, again after 5 days in court and it taking the judge four months custody was given back to me then he apealed it and after going in front of three more judges it was affirmed after several months that i was to keep custody, by than our child was almost 14, and been acustomed to living and treating me in the manner that her father and step mom has treated me. i was very happy to get custody but new i had an uphill battle to try and win with our child. i took her to counseling to make sure she was adjusting and after about 7 months our dtr decided she was good and wanted to stop, so we did until last april 2007she came to me and said she did not want to see her dad and she wanted to make up her own visitation schedule, i told her how important it was to maintain a good relationship with both parents and that you just cant stop seeing a parent, well that back fired on me froma child who did not want to see her dad after spending some of her time with her dad for the summer she decided that she was not going to come back home to live, i was shocked, mortified and felt that knife in my chest, i could not belive what i was hearing it was a nightmare. she did not come home, our relationship has been severly destroyed, her father has not made any contact with me ( as we live 2 miles too close) i am not allowed to visit her unless invited to , she talks to monly when she wants something or things are not going weell at her dads, she has not given a full explanation as to why she has done this, she wont talk me, her dad allows her to do what she wants and with our day in court 2 wks ago she lied to the judge and told her we dont get along an she gets along fine with her dad, well three weeks before she left for the summer her and her dad and step mom got into a BIG fight and her step mom kicked our out and told her not to come back for 6 months, so on thtat dad we found my dtr walking home crying talking to a cop who stopped to talk to her. of course parents have spats with there kids who doesnt but he has clearly allowed our dtr to treat me in the same manner as they treat me, so in court we saw her she never came up to us, looked at us or talked to us, it was like we were not even there, i could go into so much more but believe me that PAS does exisit and it is a shame for a parent to have custody and there is no one to help you enforce the law, i have done numerous well being checks to the pint my ex wanted to file harrassment charges on me, so i stopped.........i say thank god she will be 18 in one week if i had to do this again if she was 10 i would never go through with it...................i am worse off than when i did not have custody, our child is not the child i instilled good morales and values in, she has taken in my ex and his wifes bad habits of lying, cheating , stealing and being manipulative in getting what she wants.........i will always love her and hope when she gets older she can realize what she has mossed with her real mother...................

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timberwolf6896

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October 3, 2008, 8:58 pm PDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: kghmom

I realize that PAS is a highly debated issue after reading through many of the previous messages. However, what I want to say relates to the woman who lost custody of her 2 girls to her husband who may have molested them. I am very disturbed that they are now living with this man and may still be dealing with this abuse on a daily basis. Maybe I missed something but I really want to know if this case can be revisited by proper authorities. I was left with such a horrible feeling thinking those girls may be living in this abuse. If I missed information, please clue me in. I would like to have peace about this. Thank you.

Unsure which mother you are referring to. If by chance, you might be concerned about my posting (at approx. 8:30 MST). Currently, I have sole custody of my daughter whom is 2, my older 3 children with my ex-husband are with him, per a court order established in Juvenile court through a D/N case. It has only been recently that I have been able to have unsupervised visits with my older children (1 1/2 hours each Sat. morning and a rotating schedule on Thursday for individual visits). BCDSS as well as the police informed me that even though my ex was convicted of sexual assault on an adult and placed on the Sex offender list, that he passed a lie detector test and he only has a history with adult sex offenses. I have to live every single day knowing that my children are with someone whom is capable of such crimes and that trying to protect my children by using a voice of concern will get the insane system completely removing my rights. I have sent letters to everyone that I could think of that would be able to have the case examined from beginning to end, however, at this point no one has stepped forward. In order to regain unsupervised visits, my children and I have had to endure one more professional performing an interactional to state that I am a safe parent around the children. The court system also does not like moving children from one home to another, so the reality of having them come back is very grim. It kills me forcing my daughter who is the typical one (not special needs) after a visit, she states that is isn't fair and questions why nobody believes her. It is a very profitable syndrome for the court system and all the professionals tied into it. There are many therapists, whom very rarely take insurance, so in order to comply with orders in which to regain your children it bankrupts many families. For instance, family evaluators, family and individual therapists, parent/child interactional professionals, parent child coordinators, attorneys just to name a few in which to just regain unsupervised visits (roughly $3,000/month) just to get the system to look at you and possibly decide that you should be in your childrens lives. Be grateful for your families and hug them everyday....I wish I still could....if not for vindictiveness.

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kerry12

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October 3, 2008, 8:59 pm PDT

Paretal alienation (brainwashing)

Dr.Phil,

Thank you for doing a show about parental alienation and child brainwashing. This is a real issue . And fathers are most often the victims.

My husband has been a victim of parental alienation for the last 12 years by his children's mother. It was occurring even before I met and married my husband, but when I entered the picture it became even worse. At first it was very subtle, the kids (a son and daughter) would come to visit for a weekend or so and their mother would often call telling the kids that she missed them too much and that they had to come home. She would also make them feel guilty for not calling by hanging up on them and saying things like "Well, I guess you don't love me enough to call". The kids would often be crying and upset ....begging to go home after her calls. Upon returning to their mothers home, she would make them feel bad and guilty for having a good time at our home. She also showed the kids any and all court paperwork, and put her own spin on who, why and what caused the divorce. She had cheated twice on my husband but told the kids that he forgave her and promised to work things out. She then told the kids that their dad lied about working things out and never forgave her and that their dad "hates" her and wished she were "dead." Which was a lie.

When your mother tells you that someone "hates her" , and the she is the "victim" why would you want to spend time with that person? The kids slowly began to hate their dad. Started avoiding phone calls, avoiding emails, and lying to their dad. The weekend visits eventually became monthly visits, and now they are just holiday visits.

The kids are now 16 and 17, are doing extremely poorly in school (about to drop out), have no extra-curricular activities, and are extremely disrespectful to their dad. They don't even acknowledge him on his birthday or fathers day. My stepdaughter has even been arrested for beating up another girl and getting drunk with friends.

My husband did manage to get them (and their mother) to visit a therapist (psychologist) with him over the last year. The therapist believes that the mother has "borderline personality disorder" and that she has "alienating tendencies". After hearing this from the therapist The mother now wants nothing to do with therapy, and tells the kids that the therapist is a liar and is saying things only because she is paid by their dad. Therapy has done little good in this situation, at best the kids believe something is wrong with their mom but now they feel even more sorry for her and more aligned with her.

There is no winning this situation... and the kids have suffered terribly. I am glad you are getting the word out about this subject... perhaps more court regulation and rules should be in place for divorcing couples with kids and developing co-parenting classes for high conflict divorces. I am hopeful about the future for of my step children, and hope that they will someday aknowledge and accept the truth. I alos would like to see their mom recieve the help that she needs to become a better parent for her 2 other children (from a new marriage)

I have a deep sympathy for all parents who believe they are being alienated by the other parent.

Thanks again. Kerry O

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hunterterdog5

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October 3, 2008, 8:59 pm PDT

I AGREE

Quote From: skyler2

I have been fighting for my 6 yr old twins for 4 yrs . My ex husband got custody of them on nothing but a mouth full of lies and because he is an officer in the Army he can do no wrong. I have to say it is so sad that parents do not put the happiness and welfare of their children before their own issues and feelings. And The Family court systems need to be educated on family issues. It is mind boggling to me that a judge can have so much power with so little knowledge.

THE COURTS NEED TO OWN UP ON THERE ACTIONS AS IT GREATLY AFFECTS THE CHILDREN. ONE WHO HAS A GREAT CAREER IN THE MILITARY SUCH AS YOUR EX SPOUSE HAS PULLED THE WOOL OVER THE COURTS EYES...............................AND NOT TO MENTION HIS LEGAL SERVICES WERE PORBABLY PROVIDED BY THE MILITARY, AND YOU HAD TO GO IN DEBT TO FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHT GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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neenna66

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October 3, 2008, 9:00 pm PDT

Good for you mom

Quote From: colecarter

It used to hurt when my girls would come home from there dads and tell me all the things he had said about me and our marriage. I could not defend myself against it, would not. I will not share my side of the story with them until they are much older! They are too young to hear about the physical and emotional abuse that went on! They do not remember and I will not share! Yes, I broke up our family. He is right about that. He fails to tell them that the final straw was watching my seven year old slide across the carpet on her knees and forhead because he shoved her. I have been listening to how wonderful dad is for years, and I couldn't say a thing! Dad has a better house a better car, everything is better. Of course it is, he is an NBC news anchor and I sell real estate.(you can imagine how well that is going) But we have a home now, filled with love and respect. Someday they will realize that. Someday may be sooner than I think. After an argument with her father, my fourteen year old wanted to say to him that she understood why mom left. And I couldn't say a thing.

I wish only taht you could share who the anchor is. I know for myself I will not be giving NBC my viewing times nor will I be giving their advertisers my hard earned money. You are right in that it is hard when your children come home from seeing dad, you tell them you don't know why dad does this or that, but he loves them.

I only console myself with this simple statement from my best friend and I hope you read this OP:

He hates you more than he loves them.

This is so simple yet it says volumes.

I also refuse to not answer my child's questions regarding certain situations. If she asks why dad yells and screams at me, why dad calls me bad names, I will tell her that he is not making solid decisions and that those behaviors are abusive behaviors. Is this alienation? If you listen to the father's rights groups it is. I prefer to call it teaching my child to recognize abuse so she can avoid it. I hope you one day will be able to teach your chidlren the same thing.

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neenna66

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October 3, 2008, 9:03 pm PDT

This is not PAS/PA

Quote From: kellyjean70

I moved out here to Texas in Novenber of 1997, with my now, husband. I had been beaten severly by someone i slightly knew. He kidnapped me & my girls at a friends apt. & took us to the lake where he beat me almost to death....he stalked me, came by & pointed guns at me in front of people. So to make a long story short, i took my girls to friends i had known for 15 years, & trusted them to care for them while i got back on my feet. My friend got sick & let 1 of my daughters go to her dad's , whom she didn't even know, & my sister got 1 of them, my baby girl went to another friend....all separated.....which i never wanted to happen.....my ex (who was in prison at the time) had his wife go to my sisters & ask if she could take her to the zoo, & never brought her back. Now my ex's have custody of my daughters, & i've seen them off & on but they refuse to call me mama, or listen to the TRUTH about really made me make the choice to leave them behind. They treat me horribly! They say the meanest things to me & are very rude & disrespectful. When no one is looking though, they'll hug me & tell me they love me......then if i try to see them, they yell at me & their dad causes a big scene & threatens to call the police.Our girls don't remember being kidnapped or going through everything, except what their dad's put in their heads, & it's making it so hard on us all because we can;t begin the healing process living like this.....I want more than anything to "visit" them "legally" without all the chaos that is caused by dad's & my past (according to them & the stories they've heard)Please tell me what i should do to begin this "Process" of healing & getting the truth out about why i did what i did & why i haven't been in their lives more Dr. Phil. I agree that "Brainwashing" of a child is very harmful in so many ways & it is very confusing to the child when they love both parents , but are afraid to tell them or show it for fear of "getting in trouble" or causing problems. My ex's wife doesn't even know that i've been seeing my girls for the last 6 years Dr. Phil! I mean, this guy is a professional CONMAN. He's spent 90% of his life in prison & all of a sudden he & my other ex are "Fathers of thyear" & i'm a "piece of crap"....Please help us all work this out & learn to get along? Thank you for taking the time to read this & i anxiously await your reply! Sincerely, Kelly Weger

This is not PAS or PA. This is called traumatic bonding explained on this show by the mom who lost custody of her daughters due to PAS allegations. Please do a search on traumatic bonding (also called Stockholm Syndrome).

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hunterterdog5

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October 3, 2008, 9:03 pm PDT

IN THE SAME BOST AS YOU

Quote From: heavenlykids

I was so enlightened by Dr. Phil today I will keep it short My daugher went to live with her father in March and recently has not been returning my calls nor interested in seeing me. The last time I saw her - she had me pick her up and return her to a friend's house - that was over 2 months ago. I still actually have legal custody and about a month ago - my ex moved to a new home and did not notify me of the address. My attorney contacted hisattorney and then I recieved an e-mail with the new address.

I am waiting to go to court because he wants custody,

I have decided to fight this - My ex is not a healthy person and although she is 14 - I am giving the information of Parental Alienation to my attorney.

Thank You Dr.Phil for helping me to make some sence of all my pain these past several months.

Most Sincerley

SAME SITUATION BUT MY DTR WILL BE 18 GOING ON OUR 4TH CUSTODY AND WE LIVE 2 MILES AWAY AND SHE ONLY TALKS TO ME WHN SHE WANTS SOMETHING OR THINGS ARENT GOING HER WAY AT EHR DADS.........................HE ALSO WANTS CUSTODY TO, FIGHT FOR WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT AND THERE HAS TO BE HELP FOR THOSE TO HAVE THE RIGHTS ENFORCED AND IT SHOULD NOT COST US THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO FIGHT FOR WAHT WE ALREADY HAVE....................

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redladynj2556

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October 3, 2008, 9:06 pm PDT

It's real and it does happen to women too

I'm a woman whose ex husband had turned his 2 daughters against their mother. While my relationship with my older daughter, who is now 23, had been strained for a while, especially during her teen years, and we bumped heads a lot of times, but we still talked and had a relationship. My younger daughter is now 19. We were closer than I was with my older daughter and I did a lot of different activities with her for 15 years of her life until I was cut out of her life. Neither daughter now wants anything to do with me and I have no contact with either one. It's funny that things were OK before the separation and divorce, however, when I became separated my ex started impeding on my time with the girls and I know he was badmouthing me. I am not a bad person, never abused my girls and I didn't do anything wrong for me to not have a relationship with them. Without going into all the details of my divorce, and although the court system refuses to look at what is so obvious and as plain as the nose on their face, there has been alienation going on here. I'm glad Dr. Phil did a show on this subject. He did a very good job of explaining what parental alienation is, how it is considered to be child abuse and the long lasting affects on the children who are subjected to this horrible abuse. I agree with all of his 5 rules of divorce. These rules were something that my ex certainly wasn't following. I love and miss my daughters and hope that some day we will be reunited.

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neenna66

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October 3, 2008, 9:07 pm PDT

This was from the stepmother not the father

Quote From: tragicfame

"but these are still her children"

I think this has a lot to do with the "acceptance" of PAS and the unwillingness of persons placed in a position to promote change from acting on the issue. They are not HER children. They are THEIR children. Until we can move past the concept of ownership of children, we can not adiquately address this issue within society.

I am being misquoted here. The stepmother is the original poster about this issue. She in my opinion is trying to become mother. It appears by her comments that all of the issues the birth mother has do not lie with the father but instead with the stepmother. The stepmother needs to STEP BACK and PARENT. If she is needed and mother and father are not available then she should be able to step up to the plate, but until then she needs to be in the background. These children have a birth mother and a birth father.

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jamodit

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October 3, 2008, 9:09 pm PDT

parents can be vindictive and its sad

Quote From: sickantired

I have been going through a tough time with my husbands ex wife. We spent four years in court just trying to settle visitation matters. Over the years she was allowed to take out at least 30 something restraining orders on him and in the end would be in violation of all of them by telling him he could come to her house and visit with the kids. For some one so scared this doesn't seem like something you would do it was all a control issue if you do what I want I want call the police and tell them your here. He an I had been together 2 years before she would agree to let me meet the kids everything had to be on her terms so I played along trying to support my man. I have even stayed with my husband at her home while visiting the kids over night. And we stayed over night at Christmas once we did what ever we could to keep the peace so he could spend time with his babies.He went to chapel hill one day early because he was to visit his kids the next day and ran in to her at the store and she went and took out stalking charges against him and thats when it was on . We were ordered by the court to drive 3 1/2 hours to visit 1 hour with the kids every other weekend and when we got there we still had to pay 10.00 just to use the facility. this went on for 2 years.After a while we granted a order that would allow us to take them to our home for the weekend . Still having to pick them up and return them to the visitation center which was very much to her disliking. After a couple of visits she stared bringing them and telling the workers there they did not want to go with us for a visit and the worker would simply come tell us they told her they were not going to visit us there and they were not going to our home for the weekend. So back to court we go. while there she was told there would be regular visits and again it failed to happen. We were finally ordered into mediation she refused to participate. We were then ordered to by a social worker 100.00 an hour to supervise our case she did have to pay 40.00 dollars of this. After time with the social worker she was in agreement that these kids loved there dad and wanted to spend time with him and also let the courts know that it was the mothers influence that kept them from wanting to visit. She told the social worker that they didn't f---ing want to see there dad and that if every body didn't leave her alone she would disappear with her f---ing kids and know would would ever see them again all this was said right in front of the kids. Great role model right. She failed to appear in court at least 3 or 4 times and nothing was done just give her one more chance was what was always said. Four years later we finally see them every three weeks and she has attempted twice to break the order and we were firm in letting her know we would prosecute and have the sheriff show up for our visit if she did not have them there. She moved with the kids so we did not even have an address to send child support but we took that to court and now we make payments threw the system which is in poor operation. Although if you have Internet you can find any thing you want so we know where she is she just don't think we know. It is a shame that you can play such games with your children's minds and not suffer some repercussions she has committed mental abuse as far as I am concerned. I have a daughter and was divorced from her adopted father and never denied him the right to see and love her. His ex would love nothing better than for him to disappear from his kids lives. We planned a weekend camping trip for the kids and had to pay for 1/2 of it up front and we got a call at 7:15 the day before we were to pick them up at 4 for there first ever week with dad for the summer visit and said they were not coming they had family in town unexpectedly. We called back and said this was unsatisfactory reasons and we would pick them up on schedule. After we were cussed out in front of the kids cause you could hear them in the back ground we were told that we will just tell them daddy want be fair and reschedule his weekend even though we had both taken off the week to be with the kids. So we said go ahead make daddy look like the bad guy one more time because this is how they operate. Just sick of parents who abuse the system and there children and they always seem to get away with it. If he had pulled the stunts she did he would be under the jail. My daughter is now 27 and me and her daddy get along very well we didn't always but when it comes down to it we realized our daughter was the most important thing in our lives and we need to teach her ti was okay to forgive and learn how to put fun in our dysfunctional family lol. I really tried to search out fathers rights advocate groups but was unsuccessful if you know of any I would like the address because I'm positive this will go back to court again she will find some way to come up with something I have never met some body so full of hate and bitterness.

You can expend a huge amount of time, money & emotion on a situation that gets changed very little, if at all, by attorneys, mental health "professionals" and Judges. I know, not having as much contact or being as involved as you want at this time in their lives is extremely difficult. Based on my personal experience, things change. If you maintain contact of some kind, the situation will resolve itself when the kids finally figure out for themselves what is really happening. And, you will look better in the kids eyes 'cause you don't create or get blamed for creating strife in their lives. Going to court creates allot of strife for everyone. I stayed in contact with my kids by going to school & talking to teachers. I found out when they had activities at school or sports activities & my wife & I just showed up, sat in the audience or stands, and didn't hang around afterwards. I fought like crazy over stuff that appeared important at the time. My kids didn't give a hoot about most of the things I fought about & in the end, most of it turned out to be less important than I originally thought. I spent allot of time, money & emotion & only got my child support raised. In the process, I was successful at alienating my kids more & giving my ex more reasons to make me look bad & more reasons to blame me for all her problems. Afer all, every time I went to court, she had to hire an attorney & she had to take kids to counseling & she had to take time off from work etc. Who do you think got blamed for costing her all that money & time? And, who do you think got blamed when mom couldn't or wouldn't buy kids something they wanted. My ex wife's 4th. husband was a drunk & drug user. I worried constantly about the effect he would have on my daughters, about 9 & 12 at the time. My oldest daughter just turned 30. 6 months ago, or so, we were talking about her drunken ex step dad. I say ex step dad 'cause her mother is on husband no. 6. Anyway, after 18 years, my daughter finally told me she originally recognized the guy was a loser & told her mother not to marry him. If only I had known that 18 years ago, I would have been able to invest more energy/brain power on doing positive things instead of wasting it on worry. I know not every situation is the same & not all kids react the same, even to identical situations. What I am getting around to is you have to remain positive, always stay on the high ground and quit playing into the ex's traps. You have to talk to your kids about the things in their lives that you are really worried about. I failed miserably to do that. You have to ask yourself if your kids are going to be o.k and determine if you are fighitng something that will have a long term negative impact on them or are you fighting for something you want today that might be un-important tomorrow or not important to them at all. And, I think you have to look at the genes and have faith that the kids have some of your genes and are not going to be carbon copies of the ex, no matter what happens.

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