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Topic : 12/26 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

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Created on : Friday, September 26, 2008, 02:43:44 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard3

(Original Air Date: 10/03/08) It’s being called the ultimate form of child abuse -- brainwashing your children against an ex-spouse to win custody. Could you be harming your child emotionally and not even know it? First up, Ken is a successful surgeon who says he’s the victim of parental alienation syndrome (PAS). He says he hasn’t seen his 14-year-old son since last October and claims his ex-wife destroyed what was once a loving father-son relationship. Mel Feit, director of the National Center for Men, says Ken’s situation is a classic case of kids being turned against their father, but family law attorney Liz Kates says PAS is a phony tactic used by some men to get out of paying child support. What does Dr. Phil think? Then, Karen lost custody of her children after she was accused of parental alienation syndrome by her ex-husband. Karen maintains her innocence, so why were her parental rights terminated when her daughters accused her ex of sexual abuse? Plus, 19-year-old Demi joins the show via Web cam and says her father verbally abused her mother during their divorce. Now, she fears that her 15-year-old sister is caught in the middle. Find out what you can do if you’re caught between sparring parents. And, meet a father so desperate to see his young children, he kidnapped them from his ex-wife and went on the lam for two years. Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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October 7, 2008, 8:34 am PDT

Thank you!!

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

I was reading the other posts about this and thought I was in the twighlight zone.  Unfortunately the lawyer that was on the show was not very eloquent in her arguments and Dr. Phil bulldozed over her.  I think the semantics are very important and it is important to resist calling this a "syndrome".  There are sets of BEHAVIORS to explore on both sides of this issue and it is just as likely that the parent making the accusation of parental alienation is the one being retaliatory.  Calling it a syndrome will  dilute the issue and allow people and the courts to slap a label on an issue with a lot of gray area.  Remember years ago when ADHD awareness was raised and nearly every kid with a behavior problem or an excitable nature was diagnosed and put on Meds?  I think you risk the same type of scenario if you don't look at subtle, individual characteristics in each situation.  Now I am a therapist and believe in the importance of correct diagnosis but I think it is important not to rally on the latest bandwagon. 

The people on this post have an absolutely valid argument that there are sometimes real and tangible reasons for a child to choose loyalty to one parent over the other and it is even HEALTHY to do so.   I also think that we do a disservice to our children to gloss over the very destructive and yes abusive behaviors of some parents (on both sides of this issue and with attention to age appropriate discussions with the child).  Who would have this conversation with their child: "Mom/dad-I don't want to visit dad /mom.  He/she always puts me down and ignores my feelings."  "No honey, dad/mom really loves you and visiting him/her is what you should do."?  Talk about codependency and invalidating a child's sense of self worth!

 
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October 7, 2008, 10:39 am PDT

Abusive Step Mom here, too

Quote From: oliveoil24

I know EXACTLY!! how you feel , I had the smae exact situation , but I also had a abusing step mom that would chase me around the house with butcher knives and threaten to kill my sister if I didnt behave. I ofcourse do not speak with my father or step mother either to this day , and just wanted to let you know , you are not the only one who went through that !! I am glad you shared your story , I was very touched.
Yeah, my step mother would drag me across the kitchen floor by my hair.  She'd also break wooden spoons on me.  I once, about 6 or 7 years ago got a call from her.  She kept asking me why I was so angry.  When I described my childhood to her she told me that it was my fault.  That I was a "difficult child and made them lose control." Spoken like a true abuser, huh?  "oh Honey now look what you made me do!"
 
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October 7, 2008, 10:41 am PDT

Please do more shows on this topic!

Dr Phil and staff,

 

thank you so much to taking this subject seriously and taking the time to do a show on it!!  It is real and it is child abuse!  Please, please do more shows on this in the furture.  This is the way we make change

 
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October 7, 2008, 11:17 am PDT

Bravo! Bravo!!

Quote From: momofaanb

I was reading the other posts about this and thought I was in the twighlight zone.  Unfortunately the lawyer that was on the show was not very eloquent in her arguments and Dr. Phil bulldozed over her.  I think the semantics are very important and it is important to resist calling this a "syndrome".  There are sets of BEHAVIORS to explore on both sides of this issue and it is just as likely that the parent making the accusation of parental alienation is the one being retaliatory.  Calling it a syndrome will  dilute the issue and allow people and the courts to slap a label on an issue with a lot of gray area.  Remember years ago when ADHD awareness was raised and nearly every kid with a behavior problem or an excitable nature was diagnosed and put on Meds?  I think you risk the same type of scenario if you don't look at subtle, individual characteristics in each situation.  Now I am a therapist and believe in the importance of correct diagnosis but I think it is important not to rally on the latest bandwagon. 

The people on this post have an absolutely valid argument that there are sometimes real and tangible reasons for a child to choose loyalty to one parent over the other and it is even HEALTHY to do so.   I also think that we do a disservice to our children to gloss over the very destructive and yes abusive behaviors of some parents (on both sides of this issue and with attention to age appropriate discussions with the child).  Who would have this conversation with their child: "Mom/dad-I don't want to visit dad /mom.  He/she always puts me down and ignores my feelings."  "No honey, dad/mom really loves you and visiting him/her is what you should do."?  Talk about codependency and invalidating a child's sense of self worth!

You are so right!  All situations need to be looked at objectively with open eyes and minds.  We have not only seen what jumping on the band wagon can do with ADHD, but also remember Austism was originally blamed on "bad mothers" in the early 1970's.  Many mothers lost custody of their children due to many upstanding professionals whom used their opinions surrounding their views, talk about a disservice to the children as well.  Let's not let this become an avalanche, how horrible that one seems to think that permanent removal of children from whom they believe is the alientating parent is the right choice.  With that kind of view, it is awfully scary thinking that if these people happen to be placed in another difficult situation, that they would use such "eye for an eye" type of retaliation. 

 

 

 

 

 

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October 7, 2008, 3:08 pm PDT

a law should be passed to protect divorced kids

I wish a law could be passed to protect kids when their parents get a divorce.  An 8 year old should never hear or see what adults are doing.  When parents finally divorce there needs to be a law protecting the kids and giving them counseling.  If back then there would have been a such a law, it would have helped me as a child.  Adults are so busy fighting, the kids get in the middle and it's not right!  One shouldn't have to wait to become an adult to get counseling.   With a law protecting kids from Parents alienation to eachother, children would get the proper counseling to cope with the splitting of the family.  I felt I had no one to turn to and felt frozen as to what was going on.  And my parents haven't changed over the years.
 
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October 7, 2008, 4:02 pm PDT

PAS

Everything I have looked up about PAS says that it's something that mothers normally do.  I believe that I am in the midst of a PAS battle but I am the mother and my daughter's father is keeping her from me.  When it first started happening a  year ago, I figured it was just normal pre-teen/teenager stuff.  We shared custody 50/50 until that time.  Abruptly, my daughter started telling lies about my husband and I and she refused to see me.  Conveniently, it was about the time my ex's wife graduated from law school and started working in family law.  My ex gives my daughter the choice to see me, and she refuses.   I am stuck and don't know what to do.

Can someone tell me if PAS is a recognized term?  A counselor told me that PAS has been "debunked" and is not recognized by medical professionals, court system, etc.
 
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October 7, 2008, 4:37 pm PDT

My child's well being in Hillbilly country Michigan

Quote From: jules1965

One thing I NEVER did was bad-mouth their father to them, near them or even at all! It serves NO PURPOSE except to harm your own credibility!

 

I always figured it this way. I laid down and made these children and obvious I didn't do that alone.

So there was some 'attraction' or something for that to happen.

 

Why would I EVER let what might be my own personal opinion, harm the relationship between my daughters and their father.

 

I raised my daughters to be SMART and to make their own decisions and have their own opinions.

 

I figured that sooner or later they would draw their OWN conclusions without ANY input from me.

 

When my ex was over 7K in child support arrears and wanted to visit.......he visited regardless of my bank account.

I took care of my children very well WITHOUT that money and those girls saw me work 3 jobs for many years to take care of them.

 

I wasn't going to let a few dollars stand between my daughters relationship with their father!!

 

Fast forward, I have 2 mid-twenty year old daughters who have formed their OWN OPINION about their father. It isn't positive but HE did that on his OWN and I did NOT have to get involved!

 

Thankfully me and the ex were FRIENDS first and friends third.  We've always been able to talk to each other rationally.

 

I always thought that the MORE PEOPLE that LOVED a child the better off that child would be. Their relationship can be (and should be) a separate entity.

Thankfully I was able to do that for my daughters! They do appreciate the way they were raised as they have thanked me many times.

 

BTW, my ex hung himself with his behavior and now he has no contact with the kids. SAD FOR HIM!!

I saw the show about children being brain washed---> My ex moved in with a man who molested our son and I went to 2 different CPS's and 2 Friend of the courts and every State Police post (about 6 or so), every County Sherriff's Dept. and evry City Police dept. in 18 counties in the state of Michigan about her boyfriend molesting our son. They said ok  and I gave them his name registry on the sex offender list and his correct address and other info. No one did anything except his Parole Officer and he went back to prison for parole violation. he never got charged in molesting our son. My ex then cried to CPS that I molested our son and they wanted to put my behind in prison for 5+ years for what her boyfriend did and she didn't cry molestation one time and not even two times but three seperate times. I am all cleared of all charges. They said threw their actions (the authorities) that it is better for our son be molested, abused and have an unstable home (always moving) than be with a stable father. Then when she allows our son to be abused tell our son that I did it to him. So my next child (if I ever have any) and our son is abused, I'll go straight to the prosecuter and a lawer. Cops, Friends of the Court and CPS don't care for the child or the father but care for the mother. So CPS=Child Protection Service should be changed to their real name MPS=Mother Protection Service. So I am for Men like the one that kidnapped (for the childrens well fair) his children as I should have done years ago. I aploud him for his efforts.

 
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October 8, 2008, 12:44 am PDT

the law is not fair.Niether is that lawyer that was on the show..

First of all.. i think that lawyer that was on the show is full of S***.iam a divorced parent which my three kids are being alienated from me and i had so much evidence police reports notes etc... and the judges mediators overlooked everything i had to offer there was 88 charges of contempt and she got away with it. and i got nothing.We now have a custody order which she is violating and i have given up with the court system why bother going back which ALL WOMEN  HAVE RIGHT IN THIS STATE OF CALIFORNIA.not even a  lawyer was able to help me.now i got nothing..Thanks to the F****** system. what do i do DR PHIL.. do i have hope for fighting for my kids

 
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October 8, 2008, 4:42 am PDT

Next step...

I'm so glad DrPhil did a show about this topic.  Now I wish he would do a show about the next step, the aftermath, and what to do when you are powerless to help a child in the hands of an obsessed alienator. 

My ex and I are trying to figure out how to help his daughter, but it's difficult when he has a bogus restraining order filed against him.  When he went to court three weeks ago to fight the RO he took the 'deal' which was that he could have phone & email contact with her, get to go to all her school functions, and sports functions (which he always did to begin with anyway), he lost his overnight visitations until the next court date in December.  A GAL was assigned to the case.  It was either take the 'deal' or risk losing fighting the RO and having no contact at all for a year.  Of coarse my ex's attempts to get a lawyer before the court date were all dead ends. 

Our son is only 4yrs old and doesn't understand why his sister is unable to come to Dad's house.  He is confused and that tears me up as much as it tears me up that his daughter is severely alienated against her Dad and his extended family.  My ex has been calling her regularly and amazingly enough getting through (probably by the advice of his ex's lawyer to comply with the RO terms), things seemed to be going alright but the other day he spoke with her and she was cold and distant. 

Seems like every time he gets one step in the right direction something happens to make it 10 steps backward.  My ex is frustrated he is powerless to help his daughter and it's so heartbreaking.  I am uncertain of the next step so all I do is pray that things will turn in our favor, that we will get her out of her mother's grasp of abuse and get her professional help before it's too late, if it's not too late by now. 
 
 
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October 8, 2008, 8:30 am PDT

In this situation right now

     My mother called me the day this segment came on and said you need to watch this.  So I turned it on and I was like "holy cow"  I am in this situation right now with my oldest daughter.  I am going through a custody battle right now with my daughter, and a lot has been said that isn't true that my daughters father or his girlfriend is telling her to say to people and a lot of things also.  But anyways I am glad that Dr.Phil did this show because it gave me a great insight on what is happening with my daughter.
 
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