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Topic : 07/31 The Bridge Controversy - Tragic Choice

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Created on : Friday, October 10, 2008, 02:51:02 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 10/15/08) During high-stress times we all seek relief. But some people are unable to find an outlet for their pain, and they resort to the drastic act of suicide. Dr. Phil hosts an honest and open discussion about this serious topic in the hopes of saving lives. His first guest is Eric Steel, director of the controversial film The Bridge. The documentary showcases people taking their lives by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, CA. Is this a snuff film or does it raise awareness and create dialogue about this devastating epidemic? Then, meet a couple whose friend's last moments were captured in the documentary. You'll be surprised to hear how they feel about seeing his death on film. Next, did you know that more than half of American college students have considered suicide at some point in their lives? Casey, 17, was bound for college and a bright future, but cut her dreams short when she, too, jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge. Her parents share their struggles, including why they blame themselves for her death. And, Dr. Thomas Joiner, psychology professor and author of Why People Die By Suicide, talks about a personal loss that inspired him to devote his professional life to suicide prevention. Find out what he says are the three common traits exhibited by some considering suicide. Plus, learn the critical warning signs to watch for that could be the difference between life and death. And, if you or someone you know is considering suicide, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at (800) 273-TALK. Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

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October 23, 2008, 9:50 pm PDT

Can you help me

Quote From: morbius001

Ya know... IF I were serious about "checking-out"... telling someone... ANYone, would be the last thing I would do... no... strike that... I would not 'tell' anyone. I've gone so far as to plan how... to leave instructions (in case anything were to happen to me)... ... basically, I've planned what I will do, and how to fool anyone who may attempt to stop me, and to make it look like an accident.

 

Yeah... I'm diagnosed with severe depression, severe anxiety, anhedonia, and agoraphobia... and, I'm being treated for all, both with counceling, and with medications. And, for the moment (and quite recently), I'm still hangin' in there (Ritalin has helped a great deal)(as has Xanax). I've been through a host of metal-health professionals... (if you believe in such a thing)... and, I do believe who I have now, cares, and is doing the best job they can. But- all of the mental issues are symptoms... and I am about 99.9999999% sure I wouldn't be dealing with any of them, if it weren't for the main 'root cause'.

 

The short-story is: In 2001, I suffered a back injury at work... a place I had 'given my all' to for nine years. My family doctor (at the time) kept prescribing x, y, and z, and after each one, would shedule me to come in for a follow-up in 3 months. After a year of this... and going thru physical therapy (which just worsened the back-pain), I discoved that my docotor and my ex-employer were buddies, and it looked almost as if the real idea was to just keep me busy, until the state's one-year limitation expired (for me to file suit).

 

While I had insurance, I went to every medical professional in the area... had every kind of test... 2 MRI's, CATscans, 4 epidurals, and then ultimately was referred to a pain center. I had always considered myself a 'mind over matter' kinda person... that I could or should be able to ignor or block-out pain... and for a while, I did a fair job. But over time... pain wears you down... relentless 24/7 pain, no matter what I did... it was becoming overwhelming. Just about everyone's had some sort of toothache... you know... the kind that makes you stop what you're doing... and you can't focus on anything EXCEPT getting that pain to stop. That's just a small taste.

 

My wife, at the time, basically just didn't get it, and even though I had significant investments to live on, and zero debt... condo paid-in-full... she just couldn't understand why I'd let "a little back ache" keep me from working. Needless to say, she wasn't happy... (short version) so we divorced. So much for "in sickness and in health", huh?! Ok... so ... water under the bridge, and I'm still hangin' in there. In 2004, I received a letter from Social Security informing me that I may be eligable for disability.... IF I applied. Now understand... I've never want 'something for nothing'... I wasn't raised that way, and I've always pulled my own weight. But- people kept telling me "This is YOUR money". So, I started the ball rolling, and filed. Everyone said that unless you've lost all four limbs and your head... expect to be denied at least two or three times. I did get an attorney... after my first denial. (Oh- by the way... these so called 'Disability Doctors' are a joke, and the tax payer is being ripped-off, big time!!!!). This doctor didn't spent a whole minute with me during my so-called exam.

 

So- I had my first court hearing in early 2007, and was denied again. From the judge's response, it sounded like he got my case mixed-up with others... so much so, that my attorney spoke with him, personally. (Short story) "He didn't have time to get into to it... his decision stands". Ok... so we filed an appeal... a year and a half ago. I'm in the cue... but we're still waiting. Meanwhile- I'm prescribed 90mg of methadone and 40mg of hydrocodone (per day, every day), just to take the edge off the pain.... and this has been for almost four years, now.

 

The thing is... intense pain, which never let's up... just eats away at one's resolve. The doctors don't have a clue as to the cause... and, I'm not going to let them cut on me, if they don't have any clue. (would you?). The only time that I'm not in pain is when I'm asleep... IF I can get to sleep. Part of my Xanax is just so that I can sleep...  because... and understand this... it always hurts.... it hurts if I sit, if I lie in the bed (I can't sleep on my back or stomach anymore)... it hurts even more if I stand, or walk on flat surfaces. I try to 'rotate' which chairs I do sit in during the day... because after a while, I have to move to a different sitting position.

 

I've lost my insurance, so everything medical is 'self-pay'. I've tried working several jobs. If I tell the truth (that I've got a bad back)... the employer won't hire me, because they're affraid they will end up getting sued. If I don't tell the employer, and they hire me... within a week or two... they notice that I'm in pain... which ultimately leads to me being 'let go'. Besides- now here's a conundrum for ya... if I don't take my pain-meds (so I can drive), my pain level becomes overwhelming. If I DO take my meds, I risk becoming drowsey, falling asleep... either on the road or on the job. And we can't have that, now can we?

 

I live alone. There's no one I can get a ride from. There's no public transportation in my area. And, I've even looked into working online, on the computer. But again... the drowseyness and/or pain level, and having to constantly move to different chairs, makes it pretty difficult... not to mention the drug-induced mental haze, which is highly disruptive, and affects my memory.

 

Friends don't really understand... or care... not really (with a couple of exceptions)(but even they have their own lives and troubles). And I want to tell ya... some people might 'think' they'd love to sit at home all of the time. Yeah... right. That flies for about two weeks, at the most. I get so incredibly bored... and in the last year or so, I believe I must have just given up. I look forward only to sleep... (because that's the only time I'm not aware of the pain). And no- I don't even get a 'buzz' from the meds... nor am I interested in 'a buzz'. There's more efective pain meds... but, until or unless I have some sort of disability/insurance, I can't afford them.

 

And now... to top it all of... what money I had so carefully invested for my retirement (what I've be having to live on)... the recent economic volitility has left me with about a years-worth, to live on... IF it doesn't get worse. You gotta have something to hold on to... something to look forward to.... some kind of hope. For me, if I don't get disability... the game is over. I'm nearly 53... there's no way I could live with my kids... no other family to speak of... and even with my condo paid-in-full... the housing market is gone in this area. There's so many houses for sale... three on my small block alone. And even if I could sell it... what then? Where would I go?... with who?... and how long could I pay my bills until I've gone through everything... and all, while still in enough pain, it often brings tears. I wouldn't be able to load a truck with my stuff... I'd have to hire a moving company.

 

So- pity party? Nah... doesn't sound like that to me... (of course, someone will, no doubt, point out that I'm full of narcotics, and therefore can't think straight). So tell me... what would you do? Let's revisit some of the factors:

  • constant, never-ending pain (even with meds)
  • disrupted sleep
  • Disire to work, contribute, and socialize... but the pain level prevents everything
  • no hope of a resolution to stopping the pain
  • severe depression
  • feelings of worthlessness
  • complete bordom...  and lack of interest in anything... and no enjoyment of anything (anhedonia)
  • panic attacks and extreme anxiety, periodic agoraphobia
  • no support network (except for healthcare professionals... who charge to 'care')
  • realization that there are 'fewer days ahead, than behind'.
  • No partner... basically, alone... except for a dog (and he can't drive in spite of my best efforts)
  • No matter how often you hear "There's help out there"....  you 'draw' a blank.

And there's more...  but let's not over-do this 'pity-party'. So... if you found yourslef in a position like this... think about it.... what would YOU do? Huh? Now remember... you have to live this way for at least seven and a half years before you can answer... You know... the 'walk in my shoes' thing.

 

Ya know.... it's not a matter of "IF" you're gonna go... it's only a matter of when, and how. I would rather control that myself. If I was 20 years old... and still had my whole life to live... that would be something different. But I've lived and worked and played and had a family and kids and grandkids and hopes and dreams and everything. Now, I have pain, and pain, and pain, and pain, and pain, and pain... and season that to perfection with some depression, anxiety, anhedonia, and whatever else. Is the point, to live to be so old, I can't feed myself, and to be confined to a wheelchair, with drool running off my chin... and to just keep on living... 'cause that's just what you're supposed to do? No thanks. Most animals know when "it';s time"...  call me kookie... but I'd like to think that some of us are at least that smart. Besides... what's to fear? It's gonna happen at some point.... right? Since my religious beliefs don't include a heaven or hell... the very worst that could happen is crossing-over to find 'nothing'.... just black... no time... no awareness of anything. But, I don't believe that. I believe we all DO cross-over to the next state (no... not Mississippi).

 

 

 

 

 

Your post is like my husband wrote it himself. What you are physically going through is much like my husband went through. He was injured on the job, 3 failed surgeries, uncontrolled pain, isolation.

 

At a work comp hearing the opposing council told my husband and I that he would wait for my husband to die before he would settle his case.

 

I was his princess, we loved unconditionally and we were all we had.....just my husband and I, he was the most wonderful compassionate man I ever knew.

 

His depression became severe, but he was on AD meds and saw a therapist every other week. His pain was out of control but he was going to a pain clinic and being monitored on methadone as he became opiate tolerant. He would be up for days and then sleep for days. I was there for him, we were one.

 

I came home from the grocery store and he was just sitting in his chair, I sat down on the couch to talk to him. He took a handgun with a laser out from the side of the chair, pointed it at me and said " I am done, I can't take the pain anymore, no more" He wanted to take me with him, I pleaded for my life and he turned the gun to his head. His life ended before my eyes.

 

A part of me did die with him, I will never be the same, I have lost the best of me. The people who loose loved ones to suicide so often search for the WHY, I know why my husband took his life, so finding the why won't help heal your soul, mind and spirit as you grieve.

 

Can you help me understand how my husband lost his mind to pain? Tell me how one thinks when pain takes over their life....please.

 

I called my husbands therapist the day before he died as he had an appointment and begged him to put my husband in the hospital, I told him he bought a gun (he hid it so I couldn't find it) He lied to get his foid card. I told his therapist how my husband was acting. He told my husband it was OK for him to have a gun if he wanted to go hunting. My husband couldn't stand for more than 5 minutes at a time how could he go hunting.

 

All the pills for depression and pain, all the hours with therapist could not help my husband.

 

We did everything and in the end no one would help me, help him. So even when you have it all, pain and depression take your life. Pain drove my husband insane. He was only 52 years old.

 

Forever grateful

 
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October 27, 2008, 2:39 am PDT

Suicide Openly discussed

Thank-you Dr. Phil for finally opening up this discussion on suicide. My father committed suicide 11 years ago and me and my family have struggled on being able to discuss this family fact openly. Still today 11 years later, it's a difficult subject to talk about no matter if it is someone close to me or a stranger.
I will share an example of this stigma associated with suicide in a personal story:
After the birth of my second son, I experienced many episodes of depression and extreme anger, considering my family history of my father committing suicide and obviously having depression, my logically side of my brain finally convinced me that I must see my doctor about my own depression. After the huge step of opening up to my doctor, he tested my thyroid and found an imbalance and not properly functioning thryroid. THis news was a huge relief to me at the time as it confirmed that there was something wrong with how my brain was functioning. I was referred to a "thyroid specialist". In my first and only visit with the thryoid specialist doctor, she asked my family medical history, in which I shared that my father committed suicide. The doctor was extremely uncomfortable with this information and told me :" You know you don't need to answer that question that way, you could just say that "he died in an accident" In which I replied "He did not die in an accident, he took his own life by shooting himself in the head, this was probably the result of chronic depression and yes, it is relevent to my own medical history, due to that depression usually runs in families. You of all people being a doctor should appreciate that this information should not be hidden for the sake that people are uncomfortable with it." I never went back to this doctor.
I know my mother also has had a hard time talking to anyone about my father's suicide as no one in her small town community is that comfortable talking about it. SHe already is an intravert, and my father's suicide made her even more so isolated, because of this stigma.
I applaude that Dr. Phil dedicated a show to this and I hope with these kind of efforts, families like my own are able to discuss this openly and be able to heal from loss of loved ones openly instead of suffering in isolation and shame.
 
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October 30, 2008, 10:18 am PDT

10/15 The Bridge Controversy - Tragic Choice

Quote From: tetley22

I am deeply sorry for your recent loss of your husband.  I lost my 17 yr. old nephew to suicide 6 months ago and feel some of what you are feeling, though I suspect, most I will never know.  The common feelings of wanting to commit suicide yourself is actually not unusual after a suicide of a close loved one.  It is NOT normal, however, if you have a plan and the means to carry this plan out.  The feelings of wanting to "shout out" about it I share as well.  My family just did the AFSP's walk, "Out of the Darkness."  Someday, I may do the overnight walk as well.  I am going to attend a seminar this weekend in Chicago called, "Dying Too Soon."  I am finding various ways to "shout out" about it.  My sister may start a scholarship at Andre's high school for someone who may exhibit exceptional reaching out abilities to fellow students.  Maybe chosen by their peers.  She hasn't yet made up her mind.  The next thing is contacting our LEGISLATORS to demand more education in schools, and of parents especially if they have a child diagnosed as clinically depressed or with  Bi polar Disorder.

I have been reading all the comments and not sure what the knot is in my throat from. There is no story that is worse then another when we are all talking about suicide, depression, bi-polar disease, this is all so painful and draws so many questions and controversy. My mother in-law called me the day this show was aired and said I needed to turn it on, I couldn't. I was having an OK day, and did not want to bring myself down, I did not want someone to tell me the warning signs again, what I needed to watch out for. I already knew them, and seen them, and felt I had already failed. I am working through trying not to feel I failed my daughter. I should clarify, she is my step-daughter, but I have helped raise her since she was 4, so I feel she is my daughter, she lived with us at all times.

We lost her this past June13 to suicide. Was not her first attempt, but sadly to say she followed through on this one.  She was only 16 years old. She had been fighting depression since she was 11-12 years old, she was also anorexic and bulimic. I thought we were getting her all the help we could, she was on medicine and seeing counselors. She even was telling us things were getting better, she said the medicine seems to be working like it should, after we had to adjust a few times.  Then we found out after her death, she stopped taking the meds, she told a friend she was going to, and we also found out because there was nothing in her system.  We ask why,why,why, well I know we will never know the answer to that, only she does. She left a book next to her note, "Night Falls Fast" by Kay Redfield Jamison. I was so angry, my husband was so angry, family members are angry- How can they sell this book, especially to teenagers. I even found the receipt when purchased, exactly 1 week before she died. I wanted to scream and shout at the author and the book store that sold it. She Highlighted all the way through the book and as I was reading this I felt if she had not had this maybe she would still be here. I thought this book helped her kill herself and in some ways I think it did, but I think what she was really try to tell us, was how she was really feeling and for us to maybe understand what was really going on in her head. Things she highlighted make some sense today, but on that day it did not. I think the book helped her find relief in suicide and how to make us believe everything was ok. because now that I look back, she was having a very good week and was so relaxed. I just wish she could have come to us and said help on that Friday afternoon, she had come to us before what stopped her that day I will never know.  She learned to hide her pain well, she stated she did not want to burden the family any more, she was never a burden. If I could have taken all her pain away, I would have. I know as a parent we all try to take as many of the stones thrown at our children that we can.

My struggle today is, when do I tell my 8 year old daughter HOW her sister died. We have not yet told her the complete truth that is why by her own hands. My 17 year old son knows, but we kept it from the youngest and just told her there was an accident. My youngest knows that I need to tell her more, but that we will tell her when we feel the time is right, I am not sure when that will ever be. I take her to counseling and hope this will help guide us through this.

I do also believe we need more education in the schools, I wish I was strong enough now to stand in front of all her friends and classmates and tell them her struggles, but what she did to resolve them was so Wrong. Because she could only see through her tunnel and now the love around her, she made her HUGE problems a permanent one and now there is no going back. People need to know the help is out there, and to please reach for it. I know it is hard to do but I hope with education and people talking we can all save more lives. I know my family has a long road still ahead of us, there is no time line on grief, I just know that we need to keep reaching out so we can heal ourselves from this tragic loss.

 

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November 6, 2008, 5:44 pm PST

Assisted Suicide

  

Dr. Phil & Group,

I did not see the film, but probably will now that I have read the posts - I just got here by a search...I dont even know if anyone reads these anyore.

Anyway, what I have to say is that I realize that many of you have had a negative impact on the subject of suicide.  This probably involving the “selfish” death of a parent, sibling, and or parent.  In my case I need an opinion (religion excluded please) as to why my case could not be considered excluded from angry discussion.

       At this point in my life I have several diseases which have left me going to pain management.  The medication has either been too strong or not strong enough so I have stopped going.  I have no family, no religious affiliation, and few friends.  I am unable to work now and am on SS Disability which is my only income.  I am considered too wealthy for other subsidies such as food stamps, help with electric, etc. yet too poor to make my checks last a full month. I have not only applied for any and all social services available, I have gone as far as writing my governor, representative, and two US Senators for help.  There just isn’t much in a poor state for me.  And I understand –  a child’s  welfare is more important!   I was raised in an upper-middle class home with professional parents and am still in shock, every month when I have to deal with a shut-off notice or eviction notice.  What happened?  What did I do wrong?

       I going through the steps of seeing a psychiatrist and recently a therapist.  Hey, at least someone will remember me when I am gone, right?  After many tries of medication for depression and bipolar, nothing changed.  I am still in constant pain, have no family, am getting up there in age, and now with the depression I am clinically  agoraphobic with no one to hold my hand.  I’m tired, I’m a drain on social resources, and there is really no one there who would call me “selfish” for my actions. 

       Ok, OR and more recently WA have the assisted suicide laws, but this is for people who are within six months of death, have a terminal illness, etc. (whatever), so I don’t qualify for even their laws of help.

       My question is, why can’t I get help just going away peacefully, legally, sanitary (?), alone…?  I just need the resources.

 
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November 9, 2008, 8:39 pm PST

OMG

I just saw this movie in passing on IFC last night. I never saw the Dr. Phil episode because I usually am teaching school. I can't get over it. I cried and felt deep sorrow for those people. Then I felt so blessed because I was suicidal at the age of 8. After several occasions of abuse, I was angry and tried to hurt myself anyway possible. Finally my mother made me talk to her and she got me any and all the help I needed. All I can think is why didn't someone take them somewhere. I always tell my students that I love them enough for them to hate me. If they are wrong, I will correct them. These people aren't doing anything wrong. They just want help. I wouldn't care if they hated me forever. At least they are around to hate me forever. Some people on the film's website were glad that there wasn't a mention of God, but if those people had more mention of God, not as a persecutor but as a savior or helper, more of them would be here. I understand of sickness, but I also see my students that are still here after their parents committ suicide and how lost those children are. Sometimes you can only do what you know to do. I would hope that people who see the movie learn that when someone honors you with enough trust to tell you that they need help, that you would be willing to do WHATEVER to help. If you didn't know before, now you will. I don't mean to offend anyone. This is just my deepest and honest opinion.
 
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November 26, 2008, 4:24 pm PST

Save your judgment

Quote From: ozierabbit

It makes me very sad to hear about your daughter and granddaughters.  We have one daughter in college and I can only try and imagine how horrible it must be to have a child so hopeless that she/he feels this is the only thing left.  One thing I can't understand is how her sisters could do ANYTHING BUT help her.  Nothing my Sisters could do would ever cause me not to love them and try to help them.  Maybe YOU could start a support group in your area.  Just run an ad in the local paper and see if there are others who need the same type of support.  There is really only one person who can truly give her hope and that is God.  I pray that her heart will find hope again and she will realize that if a man would do this to his wife and children, is he really worth very much?  Not really.  Hopefully, one day she will realize that she and her children are worth fighting for and she will not stay at a "pity party", but will pick herself up and have a wonderful life.  God Bless.
How lucky for you that you have the ability to feel "sad" for another person, but saying that her daughter is at a "Pity Party" proves that you are disingenuous and judgmental. Until you have ever experienced the pain of severe depression, don't EVER presume to understand it or call someone else suffering from it having a "Pity Party!" The pain of depression is stronger and more unbearable than anyone could ever verbally describe, which is why so many people take their own lives.

I have lived on that border more times than I can count, I'm just getting through one of my more difficult times right now. I'm fortunate to have a good counselor and caring family to get me through, even though family is the root of my problems. To hear someone like you say that I've been having a "Pity Party" makes me want to vomit. Do you think a person chooses to live in deep despair, feeling unloved and unwanted? Do you thank ANYONE wants to be unhappy and hopeless? Do you think a person would easily choose death over life? What is wrong with you? Try to understand that the pain a person feels inside is so great that death feels like a better solution to a suicidal person. The causes of such pain are very deeply rooted, so don't presume to know or understand what it takes to get to that point unless you've been raped, molested, victim of a crime, deeply traumatized by something or someone.... any number of things. Chronic pain can cause many people to not want to go on living, pain can be an unbearable thing and Dr.s cannot cure everything. Heartache can make some people reach the point of no return when matched with any of these other things, not to mention loneliness. And not ALL sisters (or brothers, family members) are there for people, wake up!

Also, just a reminder, "God" is not a person, "God" is an idea. People interpret "God" in all kinds of ways. To a person who has been left behind in every way possible, it is not always possible to look to "God" for hope. Be thankful that your life has been as fortunate as it has been, but be more understanding of others who have been dealt a far worse hand in life. Don't judge, you never know what tomorrow brings.
 
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January 23, 2009, 11:44 am PST

Now the feeling

Dont know if im at the right part ( my english isnt good). To be honest i think of suicide a lot these days. Cant get a way out of my feelings.Sometimes when im really down, suicide looks like the only way out. I feel sad for people family who have experienced this by someone close. Maybe its wrong to say but i know how the people who commit suicide feel.  If you know someone who fit the symptomes you really need to grap in before its to late.  At my case it is all taking to long, dont think i can wait a few weeks before ik get help. Keep hoping on better days.

 

Feeling sad for the family who have to go through this.

 

All take care !

 
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April 7, 2009, 2:24 pm PDT

This makes me sick

I lost my father to suicide 16 months ago and this man is glorifiing it - he needs to talk to the survivors left behind and he would rethink this movie!
 
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May 7, 2009, 3:48 pm PDT

I tried...

When I was 13 years old,my mom died of a heartattack.

I was completely in shock.

6 months later my first boyfriend left me.

I was bullied at school,strangly enough,for not having a mother!?

Then,one day,I decided to take the whole bottle of relaxation-pills the docter subscribed me.

I fell down on the ground,could't stand on my feet.

The next morning I woke up.

I was angry and happy at the same time.

I did not think of my father or my sisters when I took those pills.

All I wanted was to end the pain.....

 

Now,30 years later,I am a mom myself,and I know that I should have told someone that I was in so much pain,grief,that I could't deal with it anymore.

 
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May 7, 2009, 3:55 pm PDT

Heey Wendy

Quote From: 17wendy

Dont know if im at the right part ( my english isnt good). To be honest i think of suicide a lot these days. Cant get a way out of my feelings.Sometimes when im really down, suicide looks like the only way out. I feel sad for people family who have experienced this by someone close. Maybe its wrong to say but i know how the people who commit suicide feel.  If you know someone who fit the symptomes you really need to grap in before its to late.  At my case it is all taking to long, dont think i can wait a few weeks before ik get help. Keep hoping on better days.

 

Feeling sad for the family who have to go through this.

 

All take care !

Hoi meis!How are you?Hope you are oke.I just signed in today and saw your message.I posted one myself,read it if jou like,it's called:I tried.

Honey,please remember that pain DOES go away,I am greatfull that my attempt did not succeed.

Get help at the docter's,he or she can get you psychological help without a waiting list at the GGZ!

Good luck.

Love and a big hug.

 

 
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