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Topic : 06/03 Virtual Chaos

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Created on : Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:37:46 am

Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/20/08) Sixty-five percent of American households report playing computer and video games, and surprisingly, the average player is 35 years old. Computer games are supposed to be fun, but when a hobby turns into an obsession, virtual fantasy worlds can ruin lives and wreck marriages. Juli says her 34-year-old husband, Fred, plays computer games all day and ignores his entire family. Fred admits to spending up 10 hours a day in a cyber world, but will he call it an addiction? Fred’s stepson, Brandon, thinks Fred is lazy and that his mom can do better. Then, Brad, 40, was so addicted to games that he spent up to 80 hours a week locked in the basement with his computer. Not only did he accumulate close to $24,000 of debt, his addiction nearly cost him his marriage and his life! Next, Liz found her 21-year-old son, Shawn, dead at his computer from a self-inflicted gun shot. She says that a role-playing game in the virtual world transformed her son from a vibrant young adult into a depressed introvert, which ultimately led to his suicide. Liz founded Online Gamers Anonymous to educate others about the potential dangers of obsessive gaming. Then, when Wendy married a video game designer, she literally took matters into her own hands and started playing herself. Are you or is someone you love at risk for video game addiction? Log on to DrPhil.com for a checklist of signs!

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

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brimul

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October 20, 2008, 3:54 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: sllanern

I so agree... Internet games tore my marriage apart and he never will admit that he has an addiction. He would wake up and start playing Dungons & Dragons and leave for work and the computer is the first place he would head to when he came home but when I would confront him he would tell me I was the most important thing in his life. He would play his games while we had company even when our company was his family...

Then I could ask you a few question, what in his life enabled him to have the option to devote so much time to a video game? What was lacking that he was able to find more comfort in a video game then with you or with his family? What made him not want to be involved in a social atmosphere even if it was his family? How is he able to sit there for hours and play while you have the option to forcibly make him choose to play the game or not?

Its people like you that allow the world to "pin it on the other guy". You had the option to get the Internet disconnected. You had the option to unplug the computer on him and force him to listen to you. To force him to realize what his addiction was doing to your marriage and to his social life.

I feel no pity for people like you or people who are unable to show any form of self restraint. If your not going to "fight" for what you want in every and any terms possible you clearly weren't all to interested in helping him.

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mickeyn75

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October 20, 2008, 3:56 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: gokudera

Ouch man. That really sucks. However, I don't think World of Warcraft was the only problem.

No it wasn't but it was a huge factor. I found out she disconnects from reality and stops doing anything b/c she would rather be in a fantasy world. My mother in law told me this happened several years ago when she played Everquest. She focused on the fantasy world b/c she didn't want to deal with real life issues.

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chevychasing

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October 20, 2008, 3:57 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

To those of you who are saying videogames are bad, let's get some things straight here. We'll do this list style, just like Dr. Phil.

1) Videogames are not "toys" that people have not yet grown out of. It is actually considered mentally healthy to play videogames, in the same way it is considered mentally healthy to enjoy movies and read books for leisure. The enjoyment and discussion of content within videogames is just as socially acceptable as discussing what was on TV last night. The absence of these aspects is actually considered anti-social.

2) There is nothing wrong with playing World of Warcraft or other computer games for extended periods of time. Everything in moderation, of course. There is no difference between your significant other spending time in World of Warcraft and your significant other spending time with his friends playing basketball or sitting in the garage at his work bench with his tools. The only difference is the requirement of physical activity - which, with a healthy lifestyle, can still be a part of one's life even if they play World of Warcraft (or any other computer game). Some videogames are even healthy! It's easy to work up a sweat playing a game like Dance Dance Revolution or Wii Sports.

3) Don't view computer games as a solitary thing. Many games nowadays have modes that let more than one person experience a game together simultaneously - think of it like participating in a play together with your significant other, where each person acts out a different character. When they are playing game for extended periods of time, it is not because they have some sort of disease - it is because they are having fun and communicating with other people. Instead of treating it like a disease, try to understand the game. A very large number of women enjoy World of Warcraft just as much as men do, so this isn't a "only heterosexual boys play football" situation. Have your significant other show you how to play. Many couples play World of Warcraft together. Don't think of it as wasting your time - think of it like going to a party together; a party where you happen to save a village from goblins. If your significant other is enjoying it so much, you might also enjoy it!

4) Though videogames aren't just toys, there are videogames that children can and should enjoy. Playing videogames is no more unhealthy than allowing your kid to sit around watching TV or playing with toys. In fact, toys are a good analogy for some videogames - except videogames are much more interactive than toys are, and teach skills like problem solving and good hand-eye coordination. There are, of course, videogames not meant for children, but knowing which videogames are appropriate for children easy - videogame manufacturers are required to list any objectional content on the back of the box. Also, keep in mind everything I just said about videogames being a social activity: It is very likely that if your child is playing a videogame for extended periods of time, his friends are also playing the same videogame with him, together.

Do not fear videogames or the enjoyment of videogames, but do not let them take over your life. Lots of people are obsessive about a lot of things, and obession can, of course, be unhealthy. But by staying educated about videogames and their real effects on people, you can make the world a better place for us all.

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herald7

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October 20, 2008, 3:58 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

I'm sorry but Dr. Phil needed to make a distinction between obsessive gaming and ordinary time on online. He and the guests clearly knew nothing about the Web community and just dismissed it as nonesense. That kind of attitude on the part of a parent may only serve to anger and alienate a child.

That said, it's definitely wrong and dangerous to get obsessed and addicted to online gaming. If you have some kind of stress or void in your life, you need to reach out to family and friends and experts, not run and hide on the Web.

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zommom

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October 20, 2008, 3:59 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: mickeyn75

I had my marriage destroyed by World of Warcraft. People take the virtual reality world too real. It's just a game. I don't know how you can fall in love with someone over the internet or how you could leave your kids and your spouse for someone you really don't know or ever met. I would love to get on the show and be able to confront the man that my ex-wife to be, claims is just a friend. A friend that she never met, but flew to Chicago twice to stay with him at his place for a week at a time. Leaving me with the kids and not giving me any info as to where she was staying exactly. A friend that she would wake up and call right away and talk to for over 6 hours everyday. I worked over 60 hours a week to try make ends meet for our family while she sat at home playing online games and watching movies online with this guy. She wouldn't take care of the house and barely took care of our kids. I have my faults, I'm not perfect. I was insensitive at times and would get angry about the home not being taken care of. Our communication seriously broke down, but I tried to get her to go to counseling, I tried to be friends with this guy just to give her the benefit of the doubt about her just being friends. I got so depressed from being treated like I wasn't there, I couldn't be around my kids anymore. I even quit my job so she could go to work since she said I was so controlling and wasn't letting her work. There's so much more to say...it still breaks my heart. I ended up leaving before I really spiraled out of control. My best friend sent me money so I could move to Idaho. Yeah, it's running away, but it was just a matter of time before something bad may have happened. I miss my kids terribly and now just trying to focus on rebuilding my life first and hopefully be able to see my kids in the future. Really wish I could've been on this show, so people can really see how it affects families.

I'm sorry, but it seems like the problem wasn't gaming, but more to do with the relationship you had with your wife. I have seen this same scenerio play out before, and gaming wasn't involved. It's called the breaks of life. If your wife was going to clubs, bars, or parties, I am sure she would have done the very same thing she did. She was already looking for an outlet and eventually, she would have found it. What concerns me is this: you describe her as someone that seems reckless, selfish and unconcerned for her children and their welfare. Question is, why would you leave her with the kids knowing she has these traits? I smell more reasons than video games and internet in this web.

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neglectedtoo

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October 20, 2008, 3:59 pm PDT

To Families, Friends and Relatives

We at GamerWidow.com strive to provide a place for all Gamer Widows and Gamer Widowers. The forum is a safe place to get together and share their feelings and frustrations.

We also learn about the games and their gamers. Gamers who want to quit or are trying to quit or want to learn more about us are also welcome. Families, parents and friends are all welcome.

We have many Forums and venue’s that are there specifically designed to help you.

We have our General forum and an Introductions forum, which immediately gives you a place to let us know about you and what you’re experiences are.

The Sort Yourself Out – Rehab Room is specifically designed for those of you who are in the middle of or have successfully beat the addiction. Whether your addiction was gaming, smoking, eating, etc. you are welcome to get help to get through it or share your story of how you got through it.

We also have our Media Room (Current Events) and Real Life forums to keep you informed. Our Fun & Jokes forum is for the lighter side of life.

You will also find on GamerWidow.com private forums specifically designed for Widows and Widowers of gamers who are involved with MMORPG’s, Fantasy/RP games, Action/Fighting games and Sports games.

We have our very own Chat Room. This is a safe place where you can get live, private and immediate help. The theme of our chat room is basic; what is said in the Chat Room, stays in the Chat Room and will never be posted on the public boards.

You will find many people just like you, going through exactly what you are on GamerWidow.com. We constantly strive to make you feel safe and as comfortable as we can.

We hope that you will accept this personal invitation and become a member our compassionate community.

Neglected

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www.gamerwidow.com

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grebom

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October 20, 2008, 4:01 pm PDT

Time to show our side of this situation

This is my first time I am posting on the Dr Phil Website. Myself, Bill and Donna are leaders of the largest guild on the Xegony Server of Everquest. I have been playing for 8 years and Donna has been playing for over 4 years. I have just watched the Dr. Phil show on Virtual Chaos. Myself and Donna are husband and wife. We met through Everquest. From this marraige we formed the largest guild there is today. There is more then one aspect to this situation though. We have come to know the people in the game as friends, mailed us wedding gifts and one even showed up as one of our bride's Maids. We are even planning a Real Life Gathering of our people to come and camp together.

I can understand how people can blame the online games for being the cause to people's problems but like alcohol, it can be used for a good time to have fun and meet people together or become a very bad scene. I happen to agree with most, it is not the game itself that is to blame for the people killing themselves, putting themselves in debt, etc. It is the people itself that turn an online game into a major nightmare. I happen to agree with Dr. Phil's after the show comments that online gaming is best played with balance and moderation. As being in charge of many people, I can tell you there is a positive side to the internet and gaming. Myself and Donna has seen it and witnessed it personally. In any situation, there is good and bad people. One thing we always hold on to that is, real life comes before game life. If you lose sight of that principle then you begin to lose sight of reality.

There is something else I would like to offer Liz on the show that her son commit suicide in Everquest. If her son has played on the Xegony Server, she can provide us in private, the name of her son's characters. Through this way, we can either investigate what happened with her son on the game or provide a public memorial service on Everquest so that she can have some closure over this horrible nightmare. Dr. Phil or Liz if you are reading this, if either of you wish to take this offer feel free to contact me through my email.

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seenfff

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October 20, 2008, 4:01 pm PDT

It's both

Quote From: brimul

The fact that Dr. Phil is choosing to make a show in video addiction is unbelievable. While MMOs and most video games are designed to draw users to play them its the players own responsibility to choose to show restraint. Its not up to the game designers or the publishers or the gaming industry to moderate who much or how active people are involved in there own lives or if they choose to be more involved in a game then there own families or other wise.

The majority of MMOs succeed because they are able to fulfill the empty spaces that people have when it come to there real life. From depressions to anxieties to being unable to be social in a public environment. If people find they are becoming addicted to gaming in any form then its up to them to find what ever issues they are using the gaming addiction to fill.

I find it disgusting that people like Dr. Phil so casual brush off the lack of parenting and self restraint that people exhibit. Its fear mongering and blatant context manipulation to score some ratings.

Its not the games that cause people to become addicts its the people who allow themselves to become addicts. The games only fill the void that society today allows to be created and existent.

It's both.

Most games are fun because they enjoy solving problems to situations, puzzles, exploring, or downright saving the world like persay Halo.

MMORPG's do not operate this way. It's ironic that someone else mentioned the D&D trend as D&D is what many MMORPGs are based on. What's even more ironic, Everquest Online Adventures despite the name requires more XPing "killing" than questing to expand. It gets very boring very rapidly. If it wasn't for the people behind those other screens to the same virtual world, most players would quit shortly after originally playing them.

What I am disappointed, the experienced MMORPG player hadn't pointed out that these games hold numerous types of time sinks designed into them. These games uses virtual positive reinforcement to hook a player. These games allows you to experience the game at a continuously successful rate fairly quickly before it takes much more time to accomplish the same success later on. Dr. Phil obviously doesn't get it. The level/whatever version of class mastery point system; these levels are not how good a character is; it's how much the character has grown. Let me tell you a player who gains a level 60 and 1500 cms two months must have left that PS2 on for 2 months non-stop kil kill kill to do so. He/she has likely been in front of that screen for at least 12 hours on a rotated schedule to those grouped with him/her. Guess what, this is called AFK XP a Banable Violation of SOE's terms of conduct. Any questions?

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mikedm

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October 20, 2008, 4:02 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

First off I'd like to point out one thing. Did you notice how the situation that turned out well quickly was where the wife of the game developer tried the game to see what all the fuss was about? How many of those other people took an interest in what their family member were doing? How many of you in this thread have done anything other than ridicule your family member for playing the game?

I've played MMO's for over 10 years.

You know what, it isn't the game. It IS the gamers. It's easy to find this, just go in game and look at where the gamers go. Many gamers go to a casual guild and just fool around and have fun,many of these people play a lot but never take the game seriously. On the other hand some people head straight for a specific goal and get mad at anyone who gets in their way.

It's the people, not the game. The game didn't make people have bad attitudes, the people let the game promote their bad attitudes.

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lizwool

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October 20, 2008, 4:03 pm PDT

Repy to Gaming is not addictive

Your quote - 4. I wish Dr. Phil would have had gamers with healthy life styles appear on the show as it was odd seeing a show only focus on the ill experiences. The show was very bias. In all of my gaming experience I’ve noticed that all things consistent in your real life would be shown in your online habits. If you are rude or a jerk in real life, chances are you will be online. If you tend to ignore your responsibilities or neglect your family, it wouldn’t take video gaming for you to seek another hobby of escape.

Silly, Dr. Phil is a Dr. who fixes someone who has problems. Why would he want to fix "social gamers"? Why would "social drinkers" go to A.A.? The show was about excessive gamers who need help. It was not about people who do not have a problem controlling their gaming habits.

For some people, yes, gaming CAN be an ADDICTION! Just because it is not a problem for you, does not mean it IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR SOMEONE ELSE! NOT EVERYONE IS YOU! ONLY YOU ARE!

People who have never seen what excessive gaming can do, or experienced it themselves, really have a hard time believing it exists. That is MAJOR part of the problem today. Those of us who have seen this new "drug of choice" in action, KNOW IT DOES EXIST! WE LIVED IT! There is very little professional help out there, for those affected by this addiction, because many people do not get it!

I don't know why you have to argue that there is no such thing like it, because you have not experienced it yourself???

Liz

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