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Topic : 06/03 Virtual Chaos

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Created on : Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:37:46 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 10/20/08) Sixty-five percent of American households report playing computer and video games, and surprisingly, the average player is 35 years old. Computer games are supposed to be fun, but when a hobby turns into an obsession, virtual fantasy worlds can ruin lives and wreck marriages. Juli says her 34-year-old husband, Fred, plays computer games all day and ignores his entire family. Fred admits to spending up 10 hours a day in a cyber world, but will he call it an addiction? Fred’s stepson, Brandon, thinks Fred is lazy and that his mom can do better. Then, Brad, 40, was so addicted to games that he spent up to 80 hours a week locked in the basement with his computer. Not only did he accumulate close to $24,000 of debt, his addiction nearly cost him his marriage and his life! Next, Liz found her 21-year-old son, Shawn, dead at his computer from a self-inflicted gun shot. She says that a role-playing game in the virtual world transformed her son from a vibrant young adult into a depressed introvert, which ultimately led to his suicide. Liz founded Online Gamers Anonymous to educate others about the potential dangers of obsessive gaming. Then, when Wendy married a video game designer, she literally took matters into her own hands and started playing herself.  Are you or is someone you love at risk for video game addiction? Log on to DrPhil.com for a checklist of signs!

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

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October 21, 2008, 2:22 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

I wasn't able to watch the story but was there any mention of the parental controls that Blizzard has added to WoW? I know a few years ago they added the ability to let parents set a time limit that an account could be played in a week.
 
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October 21, 2008, 2:29 pm PDT

Two Rational perspectives

Clearly there is some truth to gaming addiction.

 

As an online gamer, I'm not sure the gamer perspective is adequately captured, especially in the show itself.  Clearly there are many examples of irresponsible behavior in our culture and gaming addiction certainly can be added to the list of dangers.  But I think what wasn't captured is that gaming can become a passion like many other hobbies that requires balance.  Since these games have kept evolving over past few years there are large groups of people who ENJOY playing them..  I know many people who are totally engrossed in other pursuits and would not face the same scrutiny.  In any relationship, it will become friction if one person enjoys one thing and another hates it or fights against it.  These games are addictive because they are fun.  In my experience there is a feeding of the addictive personality also.

 

In my case my wife has attempted to control me, not only in the area of gaming, but in any entertainment pursuits.  She is ultra judgemental on TV, movies, games, music etc.  Unfortunately I've kindof allowed her to tell me what I could do along the way, trying to please her..Of course I resent being controlled.  For her the idea of me gaming isn't doing it too much, it is doing it at all.  I've played Everquest 2 for 3 years and have had surges and hiatuses, but really enjoy the game.

 

I have a primary job, am in Air Force reserves and also have a moonlighting job.  I am not falling down on my responsibilities.  I just want my wife to understand me, but she doesn't even appear to want to.  Control seems to be her end game and that is sad to me.  She resents that I have "Guildmates" who I talk with more than her, but this is is years of walls being built by her and I.  Repairing our relationship seems hopeless, but to blame the game would be way of the mark, the issue here is a loss of intimicy and friendship.

 
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October 21, 2008, 2:35 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: ukchriss

I was eagerly anticipating the program about gaming addiction yesterday to find ideas how to help my son with his excessive online gaming. I was disappointed that the sow featured a look at the problem but hardly addressed ideas on how to deal with it. Other than watch your younger children (for prevention). It seamed to me almost the whole hour was spent describing some severe situation. Dr Phil seamed to be saying just stop playing"...yet I don't think he would give such limited advice to a drug addict or alcoholic. Where do you begin? I really need some concrete answers...but where do you begin. Dr Phil.....PLEASE do a follow-up program with some specific ideas.

My son has cut down a lot now he has a job and goes to school so lack of time to actually play has helped. He says it's just another form of entertainment like watching TV. Could this be true if done in moderation? Or is it like an alcoholic..one drink (half hour playing) and you are right back in it?

 

BTW he is married and I want to support him and my dil from afar and direct her especially to some practical ideas.

I am going to read some of the other posts in the hope others have ideas that have worked.

For me, WoW is just as bad as alcohol. I know that if I reactivate my WoW account I WILL lose all the gains I've made in the past year (gone back to school, gotten in shape).  But really it's a symptom of a bigger social disorder that I seem to have rather than the cause of any of my problems.

Is your son playing with friends he has locally? That's the defining criteria in my opinion. There are those who play to make gains in the game and those who play to enjoy an activity with people.  Ask your son which he is doing. If enjoying the company of others is a big part of why he plays then things might not be so bad (especially if they are people he knows from school/work).
 
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October 21, 2008, 2:37 pm PDT

The Medical Profession should take part? What the heck can they do?

Quote From: exgamerdotnet

Hi, for those who have just arrived at this amazingly busy forum, my name is Brad. I was a guest on this episode. If you have a moment, I'd like to invite you to read my full story of addiction on my blog:

 

http://exgamer.net/blog/?p=106

 

I also have a new podcast at the following RSS feed location:

 

http://exgamer.net/blog/?feed=podcast

 

Rather than duplicating everything from my blog, which is now three months old, I thought I'd just give you the links and suggest you visit.

 

Most of the comments on the show have been intelligent and helpful. Mainly I'd like to say that those of us who have struggled with this issue are sincere in our desire to see people game in a balanced way, if that is possible. I have no particular axe to grind against the gaming industry, but I am concerned that people develop good communication within their key relationships about the risks of excessive game play. I think this is going to grow into a serious public health issue if not properly addressed by parents, spouses and family members of compulsive gamers, and of course by the players themselves.

 

Finally, I think it is high time the medical profession at large begin to take this issue seriously. We're well into the 21st century, and the Internet has captured more and more of our leisure time to the point that we should be concerned about the potential for serious addiction issues such as we have discussed in this forum.

 

Thanks everyone, for your support and interest in this issue.

 

Brad

 

www.exgamer.net

I'm sorry, but that sounded really dumb to me.  How is the medical profession going to take care of something like this?  Deciding to play a game for unhealthy hours on end is a choice and not the games fault that the person is getting addicted.  And even if it was a physcological problem, how could you teach a person to find that balance and keep up with it?  What, they're going to start an addicted gamer rehab?  I'm sure the people in the medical field agree with me: that's just a stupid idea.
 
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October 21, 2008, 3:55 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: topsail

Dear Dr. Phil,

 

Thank you for the way you help people through your show.  I am especially grateful that you are doing a show about online gaming addictions.  I have a 38 yr. old son who has been addicted for over four years now.  His life is completely shattered because of his addiction.  His marriage of nine years disolved, he hasn't worked for four years, and he has no life behond his computer game, World of Warcraft.  He is in complete denial that he has any problems other than depression, which I believe was brought on by his excessive gaming habit.  My son has a masters degree and was a successful manager of a huge corporation before he got hooked to online gaming.  He is not the person he used to be!  I am so grateful for the help, advise and support I have received  form the group, Olganon.  People, including the medical community, don't understand how destructive this addiction is to the people caught up in it and how it affects their family.  I trust your program will give the much needed knowlege and attention about this devastating affliction.

God bless you Dr. Phil!

i am now divorced from my husband who played this game...he, too, claimed he was depressed.  He lost his job as an IT technician and is now living in reality with his on line girlfriend...who also plasy WOW. When i watched this show i cried...it brough back so many horrible memories that no person should experience.  And you are right...no one really knows how bad it is unless you live with a gamer to this magnitude.  Have you seen the outtake that SOUTH PARK does of WOW?  it really is quite funny...if you want to watch!
 
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October 21, 2008, 3:58 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: diamondaj

The show depicted World of Warcraft as some horrible game which destroys lives.  Really?  I have read through many of these posts/replies.  It seems as if many of the "gamers" are affected by some type of mental disorder or depression.  In my opinion (I am no expert) these people who let this game ruin their lives are going to have their lives ruined no matter what unless they have received some type of assistance in dealing with what is really wrong with them.  These are the ones who need mental/emotional help for some problem(s) that they are burying and not dealing with.   Certain people get obsessed with a variety of things to keep their minds off of other things that are bothering them.  I just don't see how people are blaming World of Warcraft/EQ or any other game.  There are people who knit all day, people who make crafts all day, people who read all day.  Why aren't these people being targeted?  These people have the same problem.  From my point of view, many of the gamers you guys are talking about seem to be lacking self-esteem and confidence.  They play the game to gain this from people whom they don't know in "real life".  If the time played is causing marital problems, then look and see what problems existed in the marriage before the game.  I am sure that you will find some for no marriage can exist without some problems, whether they be major or minor.

 

I personally love World of Warcraft.  I met my boyfriend playing it.  He is a teacher who gets up every morning and goes to work as do I.  We spend $15 a month each to play.  The game is a huge part of our social life.  We could spend easily spend over $50 a night going out to a movie and to dinner or going out to a club.  We prefer to stay home and play the game.  We do go to see movies, plays, etc.  I feel as if my guildies are like a second family and many have grown to become really close friends of mine.  I talk to them throughout the day and many know more about me than people I know in "real life".  There is a difference between a hardcore raider and a casual player.  A hardcore player/raider plays the game competitively to see what content can be conquered preferably before anyone else.  A casual player logs on when he/she wants and plays for awhile and then logs off not worried about beating others to the punch if you will.  The hardcore raiders are the ones who will play the game everyday for hours on end.  The reason they do this is because they have joined a guild who expects them to be on so many days/hours a week in order to raid.  If they do not, then they usually are removed from the guild and join a casual guild.

 

My guild is a mix of both.  We do not punish people for not being online, but we do expect them to be on as much as possible during raid times.  If we have kids in the guild, we encourage them to do their homework and keep up their grades.  I always tell them school before raids.  "Real life before WOW".  My guildies know they can go out with their spouse and kids and not get chastised over it.  I guess what I am trying to get across is that the people who play wow need to know how much time they are going to spend on the game and join a guild that matches their playing schedule.  This will make spouses, friends, etc. happy due to the fact that you can set aside days for family days, etc.

 

I have met many people who have met online playing WOW.  They have gotten married and have had kids.  Most of the time, these people reduce the amount of time they play, but they do still play when they can.  Now, don't get me wrong, I have also seen people get divorced over the game.  It does consume a huge part of your life and time.  I always tell people to get their spouse to play and when they do, they usually like it.  I think as in anything in life people need to be in the right state of mind in order to control their gaming.  If they aren't, then they will fall down that slippery slope of depression no matter if it's gaming or any other obsession.

 

Many people have had their confidence built by playing the game.  The game is not "evil" by any means.  I have guildies who are ADD, Agoraphobic, who have Turrets.  We treat them no differently because of these handicaps.  We all have handicaps in my opinion.  I have not met anyone who is perfect.  WoW is a place to escape and not be judged because of imperfections.   It is a place to make friends and possibly build relationships that last a long time.  It is a place that can be calming.  You can just sit around and fish if you want to.  You can run around and pick herbs (flowers/plants).  You can just fly around looking at scenery.  You can just stand in the middle of town and talk to people.  You can ....have fun!

So it is OK for people to escape from reality for 80 hours a week?
 
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October 21, 2008, 3:59 pm PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: efffy_

I think you already know what you need to do, but you don't want to because it's hard. He needs to have a job and pay attention to you. No one is saying he has to give up his game, but he does have to moderate his bahaviour. If he is unwilling to do those things then you have to leave him, or suffer without complaint.
I hate this game!! it destroyed my marriage.
 
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October 21, 2008, 4:25 pm PDT

Divorced cause of WOW

I was married for almost 4 years to my husband, then a friend introduced him to an online game.  At first he played for a little while maybe twice a week and still spent time with my son and I.  But then he went to playing it for about an hour everyday, stopped playing with my son.  Then it was up to 8 hours a day.  He did work, but when he got up in the morning he got on the game till it was time to go, then as soon as he got home he was on the game again til at least 4 in the morning.  I asked him to cut down on the game and he did for a few days but it was like he was mad at me whenever i tried to talk to him when he was not playing it.  If my son tried to play with him he would push him away and ignore him after that.  I started to play the game just to see what it was all about and it was fun, but not fun enough to make me forget about what was most important in my life.  I started feeling  like my husband and i were just roommates.  I would cook for him and he would never eat until 3-4 hours later.  I finally got tired of feeling like i was alone and told him that i couldn't do it anymore.  By this time i had asked him to stop playing numerous times(never stopped)  once i told him that i wanted a divorce he tried for a litttle while and we tried to work it out but by then my heart was not in our marriage anymore.  I moved out of state to get a better job and reciently found out that he is still playing the same game.  Addiction to these games is not normal and should not be taken lightly, no game is worth losing your family or your own life over. IT IS ALL JUST MAKE BELIEVE.
 
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October 21, 2008, 4:43 pm PDT

Medical Response

Quote From: gokudera

I'm sorry, but that sounded really dumb to me.  How is the medical profession going to take care of something like this?  Deciding to play a game for unhealthy hours on end is a choice and not the games fault that the person is getting addicted.  And even if it was a physcological problem, how could you teach a person to find that balance and keep up with it?  What, they're going to start an addicted gamer rehab?  I'm sure the people in the medical field agree with me: that's just a stupid idea.
There's already a gaming addiction recovery program at a clinic in the Netherlands. We know of several comparable programs in the U.S. It's time for the AMA to enter the same century as the rest of us and recognize this addiction so people get help more easily.

Brad

www.exgamer.net
 
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October 21, 2008, 4:48 pm PDT

A Devastating Loss

Quote From: nicksmommy1

I was married for almost 4 years to my husband, then a friend introduced him to an online game.  At first he played for a little while maybe twice a week and still spent time with my son and I.  But then he went to playing it for about an hour everyday, stopped playing with my son.  Then it was up to 8 hours a day.  He did work, but when he got up in the morning he got on the game till it was time to go, then as soon as he got home he was on the game again til at least 4 in the morning.  I asked him to cut down on the game and he did for a few days but it was like he was mad at me whenever i tried to talk to him when he was not playing it.  If my son tried to play with him he would push him away and ignore him after that.  I started to play the game just to see what it was all about and it was fun, but not fun enough to make me forget about what was most important in my life.  I started feeling  like my husband and i were just roommates.  I would cook for him and he would never eat until 3-4 hours later.  I finally got tired of feeling like i was alone and told him that i couldn't do it anymore.  By this time i had asked him to stop playing numerous times(never stopped)  once i told him that i wanted a divorce he tried for a litttle while and we tried to work it out but by then my heart was not in our marriage anymore.  I moved out of state to get a better job and reciently found out that he is still playing the same game.  Addiction to these games is not normal and should not be taken lightly, no game is worth losing your family or your own life over. IT IS ALL JUST MAKE BELIEVE.
Hi,

As I said on the show yesterday, giving up your marriage to a real, beautiful, loving wife for a game is just plain stupid. The problem is, the gamer is making a decision based on clouded judgment. The game is "everything." I said to Fred on the show that after 8 or 9 months that what seems so important to him will reveal itself as utterly meaningless.

I'll bet your ex-husband will eventually wake up alone and kicking himself for letting you go. If what I said on the show helps one man wake up and game less or quit an excessive gaming habit like mine, then my job is done.

God bless!

-Brad

www.exgamer.net
 
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