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Topic : 10/29 Gender Confused Children

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Created on : Friday, October 24, 2008, 02:51:47 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil tackles the sensitive topic of children who identify more with the opposite sex. What do you do if your son wants to wear dresses and play with dolls? Or if your daughter tells you she wants to be a boy? Should parents chock it up to being a phase that their children will grow out of, or should they intervene right away? Meet Melissa and Tim, whose 8-year-old son declared himself to be a girl when he was just 3 years old. Now, they allow their child to live as a girl and wonder if and when they should begin hormone therapy. Then, when Mary’s son was 8, he told her he felt like a girl, and Mary allowed him to experiment with dressing as a female. Now a teenager, her son is more comfortable living as a male -- but Mary wonders if she caused his confusion. Joining the discussion are experts with differing points of view: Dr. Dan Siegel, professor and clinical psychiatrist at UCLA School of Medicine, and Glenn Stanton, author and research fellow with the organization Focus on the Family. Is gender identity something we’re born with, or is it influenced by parents and environment? Don’t miss this heated discussion, then talk about the show here..

Find out what happened on the show.

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October 30, 2008, 10:25 am PDT

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: utahduh

I AGREE!  The sooner people become more accepting of different lifestyles, the better the world will be.  One of my biggest confusions about Christian faiths is they are so "set" that it's black and white and these lifestyles are a choice and should not be accepted.  YET, the whole basis of their religions is to be "Christlike".  How soon we forget that Christ loved everyone unconditionally, no matter if they were sinners or saints and accepted everyone.  He didn't judge, he opened his arms and accepted.  I don't understand how they think a little kid could "choose" to be gay or would even KNOW what being gay is about.  They are that way because they are born that way.  The sooner we become more accepting, the fewer suicides we have and less depressed, confused children.  Just let them be who they are--they will figure it out and just love them for who they are.  The Christian followers are the first to disown, ignore or refuse alternative lifestyles in their own families--but they should be the MOST accepting of anyone!  Don't they strive to be more like Christ????

People have no idea of the psychological torment that GLBT kids go through when they are rejected by their families. Although it is difficult, a child can deal with bullying in school and taunts from their peers, however, to be rejected by your own family is almost too hard for anyone to overcome.  This is why the suicide rate for GLBT kids is so much higher statistically than the average.  Growing up is difficult for us all. Growing up as someone who is different is unbelievably challenging to survive with a healthy self esteem. I believe the schools need to be more pro-active in trying to support these "throw away" kids.

 

Transgender people who come from supportive families have statistically so much better odds at being happy than those who have no family support.

 
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October 30, 2008, 10:26 am PDT

The Real Story of David R

Quote From: luckhurst

David R the man who committed suicide was born a boy (twin brother) who didn't ask to be a girl but was turned into one by the family doctor who botched the circumcism.  That particular doctor has no credability for doing such a heinous thing to a child.  David wasn't told about this until later on in life, the whole time feeling he was a boy and not a girl.  His childhood pictures show a very masculine looking girl.  Again it wasn't his choice so it shouldn't be compared to the child on the show who strongly wants to be a girl.
Yes, you are absolutely correct, and for the Focus on the Family guy to use the case of David being forced to be a female and then commiting suicide as a foundation against transgenderism is appaling. Speaking form the viewpoint of actually being transgender, I know exactly what David went through and why he commited suicide. I was born physically male but had a female-wired brain. I knew this by the time I was 3 years old--and most transgender people will tell you that this time frame is absolutely correct. Not knowing there was such a thing as transgender when I was growing up, I tried to gender conform as society wanted me to. David was forced into doing the same thing, to be a female even though his psyche was male. Take it from me that this is proof of the brain controling gender and not the genitallia. This is science, not religous garbage that refuses to understand how people can be different than they may want them to be. You force everyone into your mold of black-and-white, male-and-female, and your end result will be even more suicides.

Michelle
 

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October 30, 2008, 10:26 am PDT

God makes no mistakes?

So god does not mistakes?? If god made no mistakes then why do we have crime? If god wanted that then why do we sentence these people? Why is there cancer? Why are there vaccines? If god made these then why do we make cures? They are perfect!?  Why is there plastic surgery? We are all perfect in god’s eyes. But it is what we feel inside that makes us change these things. If everyone wasn’t so judgmental I believe the statistics would be much higher.  Just like the boy said on the show he felt threatened to continue dressing as a girl.  Don’t you think that probably changed his views because of our judgmental society?  I think it is just ignorance when people think like this. I once shared these views.  Now I have met a really good friend that is transgendered and she is wonderful.  She has completely changed my views completely around.  Just sitting down with her and actually having an open mind I completely understand.  Granted it is not a life for me but it is for some.    If you are going to be all religious and follow the great book you need to read everything and not just what you want.  You are just making hypocrites out of yourselves when you just read what you want.  We all just need to open our minds and get educated on things.  If you are so into the religious aspect of things try ‘thou shall not judge.    

 
 
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October 30, 2008, 10:37 am PDT

CONFUSION ABOUT GENDER IN CHILDREN

Watching the show yesterday, I noted that Dr. Siegel sat on stage with Dr. Paul;  while the spokesperson from Focus on the Family (with less credentials) spoke from the audience.  Was this intentional?  Because it set a tone for credibility.  I recognized defensiveness in the child's mother .. and can understand why.  She obviously is desperately seeking answers; having gone this far, how terrifying if she was given faulty advice.  If she were convinced, she would have not been so frightened .. but she was -- and almost hostile.  But I would have been, too .. in her shoes.  Probably more so!

 

I did not agree with Dr. Siegel's approach.  He comes across as cold and detached. Like he enjoys too much being "scientifically irrefutable".  I did not believe him. 

 

This has happened in my family.  My niece is now my nephew.  I see a finality of sadness in her (now him).  For years before this happened, my sister micro-managed him.. to an extreme.   Much to my protest ..

 

There was many mysteries in life.  We all have a limited perspective. 

 

But I do agree with the Focus on the Fam spokesperson, that this child is expounding very adult ideas.  Knowing how therapists can influence their patients based on their own agenda; this situation raises my antenna.  At 3?  To express such sophisticated concepts? An adult has definitely influenced this child. 

The parents are loving and truly want to do their best.  I think they've been conned by someone .. they trusted. 

 

 

 
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October 30, 2008, 10:37 am PDT

why should we have to chose?

The true problem society has with "gender confusion" is the same problem that society has always had with gender roles, identity, orientation, etc..., one where the belief is that the issue is black or white. I believe that gender exists as a broad spectrum. Yet society tries to force individuals to chose one side or the other, as if they exist as 2 completely seperate entities.  Every individual has stereotypical masculine and femine aspects of their personality. And let me highlight the word stereotypical. When the 8 year old child on this episode was asked when he knew he was really a she, she said it was when she hated boys clothes and saw a pair of girls sparkly purple pants she wanted, then she wanted to dance like a girl. So if this child was raised in a society where males and females dressed the same, and shared the same rolls in society, would it have even occured to them to question their gender?

   I am so frustrated by this world we live in, where you have to fit the stereotype of your gender to be accepted.  I think "gender confusion" is a problem created by a society that wants everyone to fit into their appropriate box. Just because a child is questioning those unnatural bounderies imposed by society does not me they are confused about their identity. They are just confused with what label they should select from society's very limited options of labels that we are allowed. To me it is like being multi racial but having to chose only one to identify as.

 
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October 30, 2008, 10:47 am PDT

10/29 Gender Confused Children

I just logged on today and don't have the time to read every single post, so I'm sorry if this is repeating somthing already said.

 

Did anyone else get the feeling that Dr. Phil himself was very prejudiced about the subject? I mean, just in his mannerisms, the way he spoke, he totally agreed with that Focus on the Family dimwit! It was the same thing when they had a show about gay people! He's supposed to be the person right down the middle, but he's not. He should stop doing these shows if he can't be unbiased or compassionate towards his guests. I wonder how they feel about their appearance now?

 

Also, that mother who's son went from wanting to be a girl to not? Give me a break! It's obvious that society forced him back into the closet. He's straight? Yeah right! Where does he dig up these people? And where does he get his statistics about 85% not being trans when they grow up? That's a load of hooey!

 
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October 30, 2008, 11:08 am PDT

Gender is Biological

I am a 55 year old Post-Operative male-to-female transexual woman. I had my corrective surgery in 1981 after years of depression and attempting to exist in an 18 year marriage before the dreams of my childhood were finally realized.
Before you even introduced the "research fellow", I knew it would be a person from a Christian organization. And you sure showed your bias, especially with your final comments to the couple regarding letting their child go on hormone therapy.
Yes, the same people that gave us the Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch hunts, and destroying Galileo! I know what they think about gays as well!
The real doctor gave you accurate information based on scientific facts. My mother took DES, thus depriving my brain of the required amount of male hormones needed to make me a full male. This is now accepted as biological fact.

At my earliest memory, maybe at 3 years old, I knew I should be a girl. Every night I prayed to my Catholic God begging Him to fix me. He didn’t. I wore my mother’s and sister’s clothing as often as I could. They understood that something was wrong. My brother and father, both “real” men hated me for my difference and did everything they could to set me straight. I became a black belt in Kenpo Karate, started on the baseball, football, tennis and track teams. I acted like a boy at the ages of 12 through 18 in public and around them But every chance I got I went to what came naturally to me… to dress and act female. I dated girls, even getting two of my girlfriends pregnant, though they had abortions. I loved them with all of my heart, but I allowed them to know to the real me. My male friends were among the toughest guys around, but they knew about me too. It was hell not being born the right sex.

I was in the program at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore MD when I met the love of my life… my wife. My breasts were already developing, but we loved one another and after a year of being together we got married. I tried being the good husband, and with my BS in Computer Science, I made a wonderful salary. She let me dress up as much as I wanted, and this helped for awhile. But, it wasn’t enough. I broke her heart when I told her in 1979 that I had to go all the way. If things had been different, I would have come out as a female and would have been well. But I had to have surgery to correct the mistake that God had made. And even though your man said God doesn’t make mistakes to great applause, tell that to the child born with a cleft pallet/club foot/external heart, etc.. Religion has no part in medicine, and the ignorance was evident throughout your show.

I suffered severe depression, attempted suicide, and finally went back to experts in the field who were able to help me achieve peace at last in my life.

Having the surgery in 1981 was the best thing that ever happened to me, and I thank the doctors and God for allowing me to be who and what I was meant to be.  I am now a female and a woman who is accepted as a female and a woman.  If doctors knew then what they know now, they could have saved me dozens of years of pain and sorrow.

 
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October 30, 2008, 11:17 am PDT

Has anyone check his credentials?

Quote From: hkwk2006

That guy from "Focus on the Family" is totally wrong.  I personally know a male to female transgender who came from a family of 9 kids.  If it was the parents fault...then all 9 of their grown kids would have GID, but they don't...only 1 kid has it.  She knew that she was in the wrong body since age 8.  Now, she is over the age 25, taking hormone treatments and has legally changed her name from male to female.  Her family had no clue she felt like this all along until she finally told them in her late 20s.  Her family respects her decision to become a woman.  Her doctors said that "Gender Dysphoria" is a birth defect...so that means that she was born transgender.

Glenn Stanton has no background in medicine, psychiatry, or even psychology. His master's degree is in interdisciplinary humanities with an emphasis in philosophy, history and religion. Clearly he is not qualified to be making statements and judgements about GID.

 
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October 30, 2008, 11:25 am PDT

gender confused children

 I am pleased to see a show open this topic. I knew at 3 I was different, By puberty I was sure. At twenty I shared what I felt with my doctor and friends. I am now nearly 54 years old and in a wonderful relation with someone ( a woman ) who understands. Friends supported me but mostly later in life with  better information available on  the topic. My family doctor (when I turned approx 52 years of age) finally did offer a referal to Clark institute but at nearly 54 years old and only  a few more years at work to retire  I am not sure I want the social struggle right now in my life but as for myself I still know who I am and nothing has changed . I always knew who I was gender identity wise. I had loving supportive parents thank God cause I'd be dead by now if they weren't and yes I have cried a million tears and still feel sick when a waitress says what can I get you ladies . I was a twin , born just before my mom turned 40 years old. Twins were not expected but very welcomed.   My parents were proud of their daughters and thought I was just a Tom boy, easier for a transgendered girl at this stage than transgendered boy. Tom boy is kinder than sissy. In fact , I remember fishing once as a child and hooking a salmon just off shore. A fellow on shore said to my dad " is that your son who has that on and my father saId  just as proudly " no, that is my daughter". I  have maintained who I am to every psyciatrist , family doctor, consellor, friends and family . I still resent my outer body having a not so long ago ( breast reduction ) I often thought about taking a knife to them myself. Of course I said they could remove all but they didn't  cause  I sited  sore shoulders , back and  whatever else I could come up with just to  have something done. Do I still cry , you bet , even at your show cause as I said to my partner it brings to me all the pain , hurt and frustration felt. Will I ever have the change physically , I don't know and this is not because it is not what I want , it is expense and my age .  If I won the lottery and knew I could retire now and take the medical recouperation time  and of course I would have to follow the professional's process of hormonal therapy and living as a true member of my real identified sex just so they can be sure of my choice and I use that word loosely  and  to integrate me into a social path I couldn't fully part take in .  Many times people called me sir and as much as this pleased me and it felt good I inevitably would have to answer  with my female voice to the resounding  I am so sorry mam. I would love to say  no you were right the first time you just don't know it.  Roles , well many men knitted during the war and I understand so did Rosy Greer ( not sure of spelling) . There are very well adjusted , happy with themselves woman hockey players. I lived my life to the quote " To thyne own self be true"  For the first half of my life I lived around your issues confident in  who I am, for the rest of my life you can live around mine. Proud of who I am. Your right , God doesn't make mistakes  , He made me stronger. He made me aware of who I am and what that ment to me and how to be more Christian  God  taught me love, not hate.  God  taught me insight not judgement, God taught me  life is to be lived and most of all " To thyne own self be true" no matter what humanity offers in this life .
 
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October 30, 2008, 11:29 am PDT

gender confused childern

Quote From: savejordan

I To the many homosexuals who are responding.  The subject was not about an eight year old child who thought from the time they were three years old that they might be homosexual.  The subject was a child who's mother / parent's are clearly brainwashing the child and calling their behavior "neutering" by  decorating the room of their son 'girlie' and going so far to even putting make up on an eight year old boy and making homemade tapes to say the child wants other children to know it's ok what he is doing as no one has informed him that he will suffer dearly in middle school and all to boost the quest of the parent's.

It appears to me the parents harbor guilt feelings over what they are doing and in need of strokes of confirmation because subconsciously they know they have screwed up. 

       As for my personal experience with the actual subject; I made comment's that I wished I was a boy and wanted to wear boys clothes.  In the 60's we females could only wear dresses to school, we had to wear pants under our dresses on snow days & take them off when we got to school, a real pain. I wanted to wear boys tennis shoes, boots, boys toys ect.  I was supposto act ladylike but was a tom-boy anyway aka; obnoxious female.   THANK GOD MY PARENTS REFUSED TO "NUTURE" MY REQUESTS and I became me anyway.  I wanted to dress like the boys got to I WAS NOT ATTRACTED TO GIRLS.  It is two very different subjects.  In my early 20's I became a high fashion model, married a high profile politician and  and have four incredible children.  Today I wear timberland boots & jeans daily and dress as the lady I am when I appear to dinners.  If my parents went insane trying to NUTURE MY WANTS, IT WOULD HAVE DESTROYED MY HIGH SCHOOL AND MIDDLE SCHOOL YEARS & CHANGED WHO " I AM".  These parents went overboard & the child's schol years are guarantted to be a nightmare & the little boy who is trying to make his parents happy, will suffer and pay for it forever. 

First off, this has nothing to do with SEX, it's about your gender,the parents are listening to their child not their own feelings, and your own personal feelings like so many in here are NOT the same as being transgender,you yourself said you were a tomboy, not transgendered, yes the cloths are part of it but it is who you are in your own body, you need to understand that gender and sex are two different issues, and I don't believe that you hurt so much that yes taking your life feels like the only way out of the hell, and thank s to programs like this that help so many of us who had to fight on are own, that their is help out their and thank s to all those understanding parents who will stand up for their child and seek the help they need to live a happy life rather then one one drugs and acohol, so please don't try to put yourself in this little girls shoes just because you were a tom boy, two very different things
 
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