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Topic : 10/29 Gender Confused Children

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Created on : Friday, October 24, 2008, 02:51:47 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil tackles the sensitive topic of children who identify more with the opposite sex. What do you do if your son wants to wear dresses and play with dolls? Or if your daughter tells you she wants to be a boy? Should parents chock it up to being a phase that their children will grow out of, or should they intervene right away? Meet Melissa and Tim, whose 8-year-old son declared himself to be a girl when he was just 3 years old. Now, they allow their child to live as a girl and wonder if and when they should begin hormone therapy. Then, when Mary’s son was 8, he told her he felt like a girl, and Mary allowed him to experiment with dressing as a female. Now a teenager, her son is more comfortable living as a male -- but Mary wonders if she caused his confusion. Joining the discussion are experts with differing points of view: Dr. Dan Siegel, professor and clinical psychiatrist at UCLA School of Medicine, and Glenn Stanton, author and research fellow with the organization Focus on the Family. Is gender identity something we’re born with, or is it influenced by parents and environment? Don’t miss this heated discussion, then talk about the show here..

Find out what happened on the show.

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November 4, 2008, 12:51 pm PST

We don't need people like Mr. Stanton He is a problem not the solution

There are many issues to tackle in the world, and it seems that the problem why there are two sides and nobody can agree is simply the reason of education. People like Mr. Stanton are the reasons why a minor problem can't get solved. Let's focus on the main topic of Gender Identity.

 

It is not caused by the environment. I know by saying this I will be challenged by people like Mr. Stanton. Ok, for the last fifty or more years the medical field has took interest in why some peoples body has net matched the brain and there is proof that it goes back for ages. In the 1960's Dr. John Money had interest dealing with the gender issue. Mainly with Intersex Individuals, He felt that raising a child that was born genetically male that putting him in a female environment are raising him as a female that his gender would become female. Proof, He had ruined peoples lives by thinking this. Today Dr's everyday do surgeries on children that are two years of age or less that are intersex. This should  be a crime

They still feel that modifying someone's genitals and raising the child as an identified gender is the fix.

 

Gender is not choice people don't want to be male or female. They are born male or female but people get in a hurry and do things that should not touch. Dr's like to experiment when the experimenting is like flipping a quarter. Don't do anything to a person unless they identify first. I was born in 1974 and the only child. I had identified female since the age of three. I had a mother and father around everyday and was never ever subject to female gender toys or clothing.  At the age of three I had problems with my genitals feeling that they were wrong and it ended up haunting me all my childhood. I had grew up with mostly all boys but always felt the opposite. When I had entered school the huge problem started, I still did not know I was male on the outside. I thought that I was seen as female and felt 100% different. I went to school and and always connected with the other females. I saw males totally opposite. I would use the girls room I thought that was the proper thing to do, but of course I got in trouble. I was reprimanded and told you are a boy you will do everything as a boy. Ok you tell a child something and scare the hell out of them they will most likely never do it again. Ok, now people would most likely blame my parents for this action but they didn't have any impact on this. This was a learning process for me that I learned very quick. It was the start of school I had identified female and felt comfortable in my skin.  Ok now my childhood turned to hell. BOY BOY BOY!!!!!! Ok Now I thought I was nuts and the only person in the world.  I was lonely and trying to do and live every day in my body but was trapped., and as the result I had struggled in school for being depressed. As years went by until I was 12 years old I was watching a talk show pertaining to transgender.

What a relief I was not nuts and there was a solution, but there were negative people on the show thinking this was wrong! So I waited to get out of high school to start transition called many doctors but no help and felt very scared to tell my parents. Every body I called hung up the phone on me! To make a long story short ROAD BLOCKS! So years went by and my identity never changed.....Still Female.

 

As a child everyone told me I was so good until age eleven I got mean and was the time of puberty my father and I just could not get along because he was trying to raise me as a man. I still feel today If you are a man raise your boy as a man but the pain just got worse. I fought to deal with it until age 26 something in my brain just did not like testosterone. I could no longer function, anxiety attacks every single day.  The simple fix was hormones. Within a few months, I was as good as new. Estrogen was in a female range and so was the testosterone. Dr's said It was all in my head so after two years I tested it for one month I had waited until or if the effects would reverse and they they did, extreme physical pain. Most people would say withdraw but I feel that it was way too much testosterone where it should not have been. For example try adding a large dose of testosterone to a genetic female that only identifies female!

 

Each case of transgender is different but simular and the endocrine system has little or maybe nothing to do with it. Everyone's DNA and Chromosomes are  different.We dont choose race and nobody can change someone's sexual orientation or tell a right handed person to be left handed. They can try but will still favor the right hand.

 

Gender Identity is definitely a case of being born with. But the Ignorant public challenges the facts because  Men simply don't want to be with a person that had previously had a body of a genetic male. People are just simply embarrassed. I understand, and if I was on their side of the fence I myself most likely would think that way too. People don't want change even if it hurts someone else!

 

We are at the time that we need to start a new beginning and research has to continue, We all know are Government will not support this issue like they do Attention Deficit Disorder. Do we really need them? It would be nice but we need more true facts first. We can't wait another 100 years we need to continue to pioneer this issue it will be resolved sometime but when? The best educators as of now are transsexual adults with the proof of gender confused children. There are proven ways to let a child become who they really are and live a happy life. The parents have worked with the child and been a success story VS. John Money's that was totally wrong. The fact is if a parent works with their Childs true identity over a long period of time with qualified professionals that they will not wait until age 30 or older to try and find there way thru life when it gets really hard.

 

 If we can just focus on understanding the genetic makeup of the body instead of religion or other off the wall things. People are different everybody is different but nobody wants to face GID and except it. Chromosomes are KEY! I hope you can agree!

 

Did you take Dr. Phil" Gender Confused Kids Pole?

 

I would like to discuss it for a second.

 

About the POLE to vote: It consist of two easy questions.

1) Do you think gender confusion in kids is caused by environment or chromosomes?

Environment. If someone answered environment these are people like Glen Stanton
Chromosomes. We all know this is correct!
I'm not sure. If someone answered this, That is good too. They are asking to be educated more.

2) If a child wants to play with toys and dress like the opposite sex(should Say Gender) should a parent let them?

This is a yes or no question, And a very good one.

It does NOT ask to dress a child as the opposite gender and send them to school.
It does NOT ask if a child should start HORMONES.

It asks If a child WANTS! It does NOT say the parent WANTS to dress the child.

Basically the question asks: If a child is possibly expressing his or her true gender should the parent stop them.

 

Vote your opinion!

 

 

Thes parents are dealing with the situation as best suited with the help of professional advisors. I wish people would quit putting the horse before the cart and take one step at a time. These children are taking steps of correction over time without the help of people like Glen Stanton. Mr. Stanton would be the richest man in the world if he had a positive solution. But proof is in taking proper medical attention with professional services.

 
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November 4, 2008, 1:11 pm PST

This discussion isn't about being gay

Quote From: pamela_4

Dr Phil where is the help for these people.

A man or woman that is born with the desire to have sex with the same sex needs help!  I thought that people could not be born Gay, and then something happen to my way of  thinking the other day.  I was thinking of all the birth defect  that babies are born with everyday.  Some are born with Mental problems and some with Physical problems and then some with both.  Now to think of a baby that is born with a "Mental" problems.  What age do you think it really affects the child? We don't really know, but to think this child was born with depression(a Chemical imbalance of the brain).  Then one day this child grows up and wants to kill him/herself.  Would it be alright for us to let it happen,  the child was born this way,  For us to give each person freedom then why stop a person from killing his/herself?

 

When a person says they were born Gay, meaning they have a strong desire to sleep with the same sex.  Why should we let it happen?  Where was the help this person needed?  Yes I mean HELP!  I don't believe it is natural for a child to be born Gay.  But if it is possible then I feel it is a birth defect!  There should be someone to help this child!  We have treatments and programs for those that are born with birth defects!  We have help for those that want to commit suicide!  But where is the help for those that are born Gay?  Is it alright for us to say go ahead and  sleep with the same sex?  I don't think so!  We need doctors to help these people over come there unnatural desires.  Just like we have doctors to help someone  that wants to commit suicide.

 

Another thought I have had if someone could really choose to be Gay?  If something dramatic happens in someones life  They then may think they are now more attracted to the same sex!  Just like a person that was once healthy and then became depressed.  That depressed person may not know he/she is depressed until he/she wants to hurt her/himself or someone else. Because of an chemical imbalance going on inside his/her head.  We again have help for a depressed person, but what about a Gay person!

 

Where is the help for a Gay person?

 

This discussion is about transgendered people, which is a completely different subject from being gay.  You do have me intrigued though, I am trying to think of what "dramatic" event could "make" a person go from straight to gay?  Just out of curiosity, what kind of "help" should this person seek?  Electroshock therapy?  Lobotomy? 

 

I've not yet read any study (although I could've missed it) that made a connection between being gay and being clinically depressed.  Did you read this somewhere?

 
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November 4, 2008, 1:33 pm PST

I really agree with you

Quote From: niceguy27834

After watching this episode, I found myself fuming over the comments made by the representative from Focus On The Family.  A major, major part of the cruelty and unjust treatment in this world is a result of this close-minded group.  They force their views on the public at large and use fear mongering as a way to further their false ideals.  I do not deal with a gender confused child, but I feel for the parents that do.  Supporting your child and how they feel is a very important part of parenting.  If you brainwash your child into thinking in stereotypical ways, then the hatred and judgmental views that we deal with today will never end.  The real parent in today's world is the one that does not judge someone based on their own ideals.  No one has the right to judge another's life.  If everyone minded their own business, this world would be much happier.
this is what ive said all along sadly as we both know people cant seem to mind there ow business so I dontknow if itll ever stop. As for closed minded people such as people that ar in focus on the family...I dont knw what to say about them ? So Iwont say anything about them because why should I judge them when I dont want them judging me...No one should judge anyone in my opinion .You right if everyone minded their own business his world woud be happier. I hope this happens someday.........someday we ca hope cant we?
 
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November 4, 2008, 1:52 pm PST

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: tiggerst67

This discussion is about transgendered people, which is a completely different subject from being gay.  You do have me intrigued though, I am trying to think of what "dramatic" event could "make" a person go from straight to gay?  Just out of curiosity, what kind of "help" should this person seek?  Electroshock therapy?  Lobotomy? 

 

I've not yet read any study (although I could've missed it) that made a connection between being gay and being clinically depressed.  Did you read this somewhere?

why dont people like you read? Its not a choice its theway theyre bornand theyre is nothing wrong with it all do you now that animals ar born homosexual? THey dont need help frompeople lie youwho think that their a cure or a perversion of nature! And need to be tured straight They ar beautiful wonderful human beingsthat are here and the kind of help they need is people who supportthem........this is hy im athiest and damn proud of it !!!!!!! JUst accept people for who they are an understnd that its kay to be different.....And ask yourself this why would anyone choose to be gay hen they have to run  up against  people like you? Risk losing theyre familys? and even alot of theye friends ust because they feel different? Why woul anyone choos that? It chromosones and science dears and they dont need help! They are the way they are. But sadly people like yo cant admit that  can you? Theyre people lke you and I why should you care about how they live heyre lives? If theyre no bothering you why do you care?
 
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November 4, 2008, 2:51 pm PST

did you not read the post i was responding to?

Quote From: tinybird26

why dont people like you read? Its not a choice its theway theyre bornand theyre is nothing wrong with it all do you now that animals ar born homosexual? THey dont need help frompeople lie youwho think that their a cure or a perversion of nature! And need to be tured straight They ar beautiful wonderful human beingsthat are here and the kind of help they need is people who supportthem........this is hy im athiest and damn proud of it !!!!!!! JUst accept people for who they are an understnd that its kay to be different.....And ask yourself this why would anyone choose to be gay hen they have to run  up against  people like you? Risk losing theyre familys? and even alot of theye friends ust because they feel different? Why woul anyone choos that? It chromosones and science dears and they dont need help! They are the way they are. But sadly people like yo cant admit that  can you? Theyre people lke you and I why should you care about how they live heyre lives? If theyre no bothering you why do you care?
Sorry, I was being sarcastic.  And I AM different.  I was just posting the questions to see where this persons thought process was.  It was difficult to tell from the post what exactly they were suggesting, and I wanted the opportunity to let them know that being gay, as they were describing it, is not an illness, you don't go to a doctor and get a prescription to "fix" it.  The electroshock and lobotomy questions were just posted to try to illustrate there are no "Fixes" and in my opinion you don't fix something that isn't broken, and I do not consider gay people broken.  From now on though, just to make things clearer, I will further explain what I am trying to ask.  Historically, medical science did attempt to "fix" it with radical horrible treatments that did NOT work using those and other methods.  I guess you haven't read my other posts, I think I have said at least 5 times that none of this is a choice.  I should know better than most, being post-op.
 
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November 4, 2008, 4:15 pm PST

current research

   " Most people want to know why transgender people are the way they are. Most people assume that there were family life problems growing up, like a lack of a father figure. Or perhaps trans people are simply confused. Well, more and more research is being done to determine the causes of gender and sexuality in the brain and genetics. Some of the findings are starting to point to a real medical reasoning instead of societal.

     One of the first of the recent studies was done by a Dr. Swaab of the Netherlands. He took post-mortem brains and examined them slice by slice for differences in males and females. Eventually he came across one. He discovered a region of the brain called "the central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis" or BSTc for short. It's a tiny structure in the hypothalamus of the brain that seems to be linked to our gender identity. This section is bigger in men than it is in women by about 44 percent. The amazing thing he's found is that in male-to-female transsexuals, the BSTc has female size, and in female-to-male transsexuals, it has male size. The size of this structure in the brain doesn't seem to be affected by hormonal changes, aside from perhaps during fetal development.  This research suggests that gender is determined in the brain pre-natally."     from Translife.net

 

Ok so it isn't an MRI or a CT scan, but for those who wanted PHYSICAL PROOF, HERE IT IS! This study is not the only one going on, but it is the most recent and relevant to the discussion, since the discussion has been predominantly inborn or choice.  I hope this helps put the "Choice" argument to rest.  This proves it is a natural occurance, and a PHYSICAL DIFFERENCE between transgendered men and women and the natural borns.

 

 
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November 4, 2008, 4:48 pm PST

"gender confused children"

Quote From: tina_socal

 I have made two other posts with very detailed information, links, etc. about a number of intersex conditions, many of which result in ambiguous gentalia that are a combination of male and female parts.

If you "haven't seen any proof" it is only because you DON'T WANT TO and resist any and all attempts to educate you.

You have also stated that you "don't believe" that the genitalia of human fetuses are undifferentiated until well into their development and that all babies' genitalia begin as vaginas and only differentiate into a penis under the influence of virilizing male hormones - again, EXTREMELY basic biology that can be easily verified by anyone who cares to be educated.

The fact that you are on a site discussing a show that is ostensibly about educating people and have so steadfastly refused to learn anything or use even the simplest logic when stating your "points" makes it pretty clear that you are nothing but an internet troll, whose sole purpose is to provoke and insult others and disrupt the conversations of people who are here to have a reasoned discussion that acknowledges facts and furthers understanding on the subject.

I for one will now cease to feed your trolling and I hope that others will do the same.


Sweetie,

                That was someone else.  I didn't say all babies start out with vaginas.  Go back and read the post again.  This topic is not about educating people.  This topic is about gender confused children.

 
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November 4, 2008, 4:56 pm PST

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: x15gal

This points to a very specific problem that you have. There is plenty of scientific evidence to support the realities about transgender people and also intersex people, yet you don't believe it because you chose not to seek out the information. Someone could be holding the photos of intersex people right there in front of your face and yet you would deny their existance and look away because it would conflict with your bigited world view. So it is impossible to say that you are speaking the truth when you deny the evidence available right before your eyes. And just because you chose not to look at the evidence does not mean it does not exist. That is the wonder of science over religious dogma. Anyone with any level of actual intelligence can look at the exact same evidence and see what is there. But they have to be able to open their eyes to the world first.

And this has nothing whatsoever to do with freedom of speech. Just because two people hold diametrically-opposed viewpoints does not mean that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The truth is the truth, meaning that one person can be absolutely right and the other absolutely wrong, as is the case here. Just because you may want to say that the Sun rises in the West every morning does not make that true, and it has nothing to do with you simply expressing your freedom of speech. The statement is wrong under any and all circumstances.

Michelle

You are the one who is wrong.  Let's say I have proof that there are intersex people.  You are trying to lump intersex people and transgender people together.  If you are an intersex, you were born with a penis and a vagina.  Transgender people think they are the opposite sex.  It has nothing to do with the way they were born.

 
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November 4, 2008, 5:05 pm PST

your words...

Quote From: tiggerst67

Your attitude toward this is what is killing the kids.  You make them afraid to tell what is wrong.  Kids are very attuned to adults, and when they detect that it is not safe to talk about something that is really bothering them, they will not say a thing.  So here is what they do.  They will handle this stress all alone for as long as they can stand it.  Then they will start exploring self-destructive behavior like drinking and drugs.  They will go further and further into isolation, and repress who they are.  If they live long enough they may seek help.  Kids need an environment where they aren't afraid to talk.  Even if you do not agree, if you are open minded enough to hear them out without telling them they are crazy or possessed, threatening to put them away in a mental institution, or kick them out of your lives you will have done them a great service.  If the child is confused, or going through a phase, then they are not transgendered, and this will pass.  If it is not, then get the child into counseling to help them deal with this iin constructive ways. 

 

It took reading a lot of your posts to realize what is really going on with you.  You are prejudiced.  See if this is familiar:

The word prejudice refers to prejudgment: making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case or event. The word has commonly been used in certain restricted contexts, in the expression 'racial prejudice'. Initially this is referred to making a judgment about a person based on their race, religion, class, etc., before receiving information relevant to the particular issue on which a judgment was being made; it came, however, to be widely used to refer to any hostile attitude towards people based on their race or even by just judging someone without even knowing them. Subsequently the word has come to be widely so interpreted in this way in contexts other than those relating to race. The meaning now is frequently "any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence".[1 Race, sex, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age, and religion have a history of inciting prejudicial behaviour.(from Wikipedia)

 

So there is no point in continuing to try to debate you on this subject, you made up your mind before you even posted the first time, and no amount of data, studies, or facts will change the way you feel.  I had thought as a species, mankind had for the most part gotten past this senseless behavior, but I guess not everyone has evolved yet.

There is nothing wrong with these kids.  They just need the right guidance.  It's thoughts that someone has put in their mind.  And I didn't say anything about the kids were crazy or possessed.  These are your words.
 
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November 4, 2008, 5:15 pm PST

don't understand

Quote From: tina_socal

 Transgender and homosexuality are two entirely different things- among TG people there are straight, gay, bisexual and asexual/celibate individuals, just as there are in the non-TG population.

BTW, why is it that when quoting scripture, fundamentalists who insist on imposing strict binary gender classifications and roles on others never seem to remember Galatians 3:28?-

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

- rhetorical question of course,  they ignore it  because this passage is intended to speak directly to the fact that people who insist that God cares about strictly defined gender roles and other socially imposed classifications that divide people are dead wrong.


tina socal,

                   Tell me how is a transgender going to be straight.  You are changing yourself so that you can be with the same sex.  Yes, transgender people are gay.  And why would you want to be a bisexual?  You just changed yourself so you can be with the same sex.  In Galatians 3:28, where in this verse did God say anything about changing your sex.

 
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