Topic : 10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: pch2008

I was about to turn off my tv tonight, when I just happened to see a commercial for this topic being discussed on tomorrow's show (oops, TODAY'S show at this point!). I had to set it for my DVR to watch.

How strongly do I feel about this topic? I registered on here just this moment, just so people could read this and hear me out. I am a biological male and always have been. I was brought up in a loving, even church going household and still love my God and hold my faith dear. Why do I say "still"? Because I have this background and "yet" I am transgender as well. If anyone would NOT be like this, it would be someone raised the way that I was!

Yes, I do think that there is the rare case when there is a child that is confused and they are not truly "TG"...however, I think most are TG if they think so. Look at it this way...yes there are cultural influences that are debatable in all this...but if somebody is so very young in particular that is like this (I watched 20/20 with Barbara Walters show a biological boy who was 3 who obviously has not been influenced by society yet subtly or not so subtly...his "brain sex" was very, very obviously female, yet he was born with male anatomy, make sense? For those people that say that God does not make mistakes, you are right....because "these people" are no more "mistakes", than you, than me, or the person (think about it) who is born with Elephant Man Disease and deformed! The very sad thing is that thinking like this keeps people back and does not open minds to even listen, let alone change. My Mom does not even know that I sometimes go out looking like the opposite gender, and she would probably literally have a heart attack if she did....why? Because people raised like I was are "not supposed to be like this". The sad irony is that I used to live right under her roof and hear her say things against TG people, and it was clear that the thought never even crossed her mind that I could have possibly been one of the very same people she talked bad about, not knowing it was her very own son that was TG. My father passed away this month, and went to his grave never even knowing this about me. Trust me...think about it....NOBODY WOULD CHOOSE THIS WILLINGLY. Does a guy wake up and "decide" to put on a skirt and wonder what it feels like? I used to throw away literally hundreds of dollars worth of wigs, skirts, jeans, etc that were my female expression manifesting itself physically in accordance to how I would be thinking and wanting to express myself at the time. This happened multiple times, feeling society pressure, and (very falsely) thinking this would stop "THIS time". Before you know it, you could die before ever living the life you should and accepting it of yourself in the first place! I stopped throwing those things away once I learned about the subject (and yes had therapy to learn that this is who I am and it does NOT go away). I embrace it now for the most part, and just know its part of my thinking process and my personality..and I am so much more happy, relaxed, etc. because of it.

Gender is a very fluid thing. It is NOT always black & white!! It is society that needs to change and understand this, not transgender people...or they will have even more depressed people and suicides on their hands than have already happened for people unsuccessfully trying to "conform" to what is "normal". Gender is so fluid that that is why there are people that go out like the opposite gender part of the time to "let out what society doesnt let them let out" for our rigid social standards and pressures, all the way to the TG people that are out like that 100% of the time.....those are usually the transsexual people where the inclination is so strong, that it is CONSTANT instead of fairly regularly.

Sorry this is so long, but I think at least this needed to be said/vented, at least by me. I am so glad that a respectable show like Dr Phil's (and more and more like them) and talking about this sometimes and less and less exposure for the horrible negative stereotype that certain other daytime shows are like. That is not what the Transgender Community on the whole is like at all!

So again, for those that talk about judging, mistakes, and the like...dont do that too much, because I am living proof that you could have a son or daughter that is TG and you dont even know it, because what you have let your children hear regularly, and at such a young age, already makes them believe they can never tell you the truth about them....and you will never truly know 100% of who your child is.....ever. Sadly, that is my background in my life and so many others with undeserved shame. Fortunately I have a wonderful network of supportive friends that actually listened when I got the courage to tell them about this pat of me, and learned about what I have been through and how I think in comparison and difference to many "normal" people! My sexual orientation is heterosexual still, like most TG, yes....but sexual orientation and sexual IDENTITY are two very, very different things.

Please watch this episode people...you are strangers to me, obviously, and I am ASKING you to watch it...TALK about it with the people you know watch the show. Heck, talk about it with your family...hint to loved ones friends and family that you saw it and open the lines of communication on this...you never know. Most people think they dont know someone like this, when the truth is they often do, but it is "hidden" so much that nobody knows and that is quite sad. ..LIke I said, my family would never guess this about me and frankly they are missing out in so many ways...we are so close, yet they still dont and never will know 100% of me after all of these years...that part of me that NEEDS to be expressing "both sides" (genders).... but I know how close minded they are, and even though I am "their blood", they have likely already made up their mind like so many others seem to do without even hearing the facts. :( If you are interested, look at websites like wikipedia, and keyword transgender. You will learn more and I sincerely thank you for reading this and possibly watching this episode. =)

Quote From: t_wolfman2087

it is easy for someone who has never dealt witht the issue to say what they "would or should do" in this situation. But speaking from first hand experience it is destructive to a childs psychy to force them (a TG child) to live a way that their mind tells them is wrong. I have aa best friend from high school who is TG. I watched as his parents tried to force him to dress and act like a boy. Everyday he would come to school depressed beyong belief. I found him one day in the bathroom with his arms cut open for crying out loud, this due to the fact that; according to his journal; he planned on killing himself because his father told him that if he did not change, he would never accept him as his son or daughter. Why is it so hard for someone to just accept another person for who they are and not how this twisted society tells us we should act. We can accept biggomists and thieves and homosexuals but we cannot accept a guy who wants to be a girl or vise versa? To try to force these people into living a lie shows you to be selfish, self-serving, hypocritical (as in the case of the gentleman from the show who argued the parents should step up), and insecure in their own standing. People should learn to just accept others and stop being so overcritical and just worry about what is going on with themselves.

 

Now to get to the parents on the show. I applaud you for supporting your children. If the parents cannot accept and support their own children who will? Now about the hormonal theropy. NO NO NO NO NOOO!!!! Absolutely Not! In some cases in fact more often then not this is just a stage that children go through when they are influenced more by the opposite sex then their own. Wait to see if your child will grow out of it first. If not after puberty this is a topic that must be discussed between the parents, child, and (i stress this point) a licensed psychiatric professional. Hormonal theropy is a life changing decission. Do not take it lightly. If you are not sure you are doing the right thing, take a look at your child, is he/she happy, or does he/she always seem to be depressed? You as the parent will know when you look at your childs emotional  well being as to whether you are doing the right thing or not.

Quote From: freakycat125

I find so many aspects of this subject absolutely confusing and illogical. I really have to admit I do not understand... despite the fact I have read about, and even know homosexual and transgender people. I hope no one will be offended if I ask a few questions.

 

1. What do clothes have to do with Gender? I mean clothing is cultural, and it varies in different countries and through out history. The early Roman men wore short skirt like garments... and sometimes the Greeks wore nothing at all... I am certain Jesus didn't own a pair of pants, because they weren't invented yet in his day. Bras, Pants, and underwear are basically modern inventions. Therefore it could not be a biological, instinctive or inborn need for someone male or female to wear women's underwear. Fruther natural born women do not wear dresses very often at all, Most women don't wear nearly as much make-up, or worry about their hair and clothing as much as trans gender people. Honestly most women don't dress that differently from men. So why is clothing so much of an issue with these confused gender people?

 

2. What difference does it make really what gender you are? I mean sexual preference sure, people like what they like I guess. I am a woman who is attracted to men, It would not occur to me to even think of being with a woman, so I suppose that if a man felt the same way for some reason, then it would be hard to change.... but gender for the sake of gender only... like wanting to be the opposite sex just because you feel like a man or a woman? What is the point of that? For example why would a man change his gender to female, and then be a lesbian? Why would he bother to change his gender... and apart from sexual preference, what difference does it make if you are male or female? WEll other than the difference in economic opportunities. It seems to me a man getting a sex change cuts his paycheck in half, and volunteers to recieve condesending attitudes, and descrimination... even if he successfully convinced people he was a real woman. Why would anyone want to be a woman if they were not born one?

 

3. Why do interests, toys and hobbies have to be gender specific? Plenty of little girls like to climb trees, and play with toy trucks. I remember in kindergarten they made the little girls play with dolls and the boys play with trucks. I used to take trucks away from little boys every time the teacher left the room, cause dolls got boring after a while. I don't think that made me a guy... I think assuming gender is based in toy preference makes any sense at all. Fruther I still think trading recipies, and a lot of other feme activities are boring. I don't think that makes me a guy either, just a woman who would rather be in a room full of men listening to them talk, than in a room full of women listening to them talk. On the other hand, some men like being around mostly women, and listening to them talk about clothes, and hair. Some men like to cook. That doesn't make them gay, or women... it might just  mean they like women a lot? Could I be right on this? How are toys and hobbies gender related anyway? People enjoy what they enjoy. Why can't people do whatever they want to do regardless of gender?  

 

4. What is wrong with just letting people wear what they want, and play with whatever toys they want, and just not attaching a gender to it? Trying to pass for the opposite sex is another matter, but if men just think our clothing is more intersting, why not make silk shirts in pastel colors for men, Women already enjoy the right to wear jeans, and slacks. Why not just have clothes, instead of women's clothes and men's clothes?

 

5. I've heard gender confused men say they felt like women... but how do they know what it feels like to be a woman in the first place. I actually asked a few, who described that feeling to me, and I can honestly say, I never felt that way in my life. I asked around to my female friends, and they don't feel that way either. It seems to me that women take their gender for granted, They don't go around singing, "I feel pretty." If  someone was to ask me how it feels to be a woman, I'd probably describe the pain of minstral cramps,  cause I figure that is the only thing I or any other woman feels that is any different from what a man feels.

 

6. If a person had a transgender operation, what are the odds of a straight, normal, hetherosexual person wanting to date them or marry them? How could they tell people they date that they are transexual without getting gay bashed? Is it really fair for them to try to pass as women, and pick up men, when in fact most men will only be repulsed when they find out, and it might even cause them to doubt their own masculinity?

 

7. Don't you think that all this talk about gay and transgender on TV causes more and more people to become gender confused? I have heard people say that young people need to consider their sexual preference... in my day we didnt' consider anything of the sort. It was just assumed, but a small precentage of people were still gay. I think if someone is gay they would know it without thought or discussion.

 

8. Being molested or raped brings on a lot of confusing, self loathing, and general distress. Is there any link between having gay sex, whether willingly or unwillingly before the age of concent, and being gender confused? Couldn't being forced or coerced into gay sex make a man think he is gay or transgender?

 

Again I am not trying to be offensive, these are just things I wonder about, and am afraid to ask people I know...could anyone explain any of this to me? 

Quote From: freakycat125

I find so many aspects of this subject absolutely confusing and illogical. I really have to admit I do not understand... despite the fact I have read about, and even know homosexual and transgender people. I hope no one will be offended if I ask a few questions.

 

1. What do clothes have to do with Gender? I mean clothing is cultural, and it varies in different countries and through out history. The early Roman men wore short skirt like garments... and sometimes the Greeks wore nothing at all... I am certain Jesus didn't own a pair of pants, because they weren't invented yet in his day. Bras, Pants, and underwear are basically modern inventions. Therefore it could not be a biological, instinctive or inborn need for someone male or female to wear women's underwear. Fruther natural born women do not wear dresses very often at all, Most women don't wear nearly as much make-up, or worry about their hair and clothing as much as trans gender people. Honestly most women don't dress that differently from men. So why is clothing so much of an issue with these confused gender people?

 

2. What difference does it make really what gender you are? I mean sexual preference sure, people like what they like I guess. I am a woman who is attracted to men, It would not occur to me to even think of being with a woman, so I suppose that if a man felt the same way for some reason, then it would be hard to change.... but gender for the sake of gender only... like wanting to be the opposite sex just because you feel like a man or a woman? What is the point of that? For example why would a man change his gender to female, and then be a lesbian? Why would he bother to change his gender... and apart from sexual preference, what difference does it make if you are male or female? WEll other than the difference in economic opportunities. It seems to me a man getting a sex change cuts his paycheck in half, and volunteers to recieve condesending attitudes, and descrimination... even if he successfully convinced people he was a real woman. Why would anyone want to be a woman if they were not born one?

 

3. Why do interests, toys and hobbies have to be gender specific? Plenty of little girls like to climb trees, and play with toy trucks. I remember in kindergarten they made the little girls play with dolls and the boys play with trucks. I used to take trucks away from little boys every time the teacher left the room, cause dolls got boring after a while. I don't think that made me a guy... I think assuming gender is based in toy preference makes any sense at all. Fruther I still think trading recipies, and a lot of other feme activities are boring. I don't think that makes me a guy either, just a woman who would rather be in a room full of men listening to them talk, than in a room full of women listening to them talk. On the other hand, some men like being around mostly women, and listening to them talk about clothes, and hair. Some men like to cook. That doesn't make them gay, or women... it might just  mean they like women a lot? Could I be right on this? How are toys and hobbies gender related anyway? People enjoy what they enjoy. Why can't people do whatever they want to do regardless of gender?  

 

4. What is wrong with just letting people wear what they want, and play with whatever toys they want, and just not attaching a gender to it? Trying to pass for the opposite sex is another matter, but if men just think our clothing is more intersting, why not make silk shirts in pastel colors for men, Women already enjoy the right to wear jeans, and slacks. Why not just have clothes, instead of women's clothes and men's clothes?

 

5. I've heard gender confused men say they felt like women... but how do they know what it feels like to be a woman in the first place. I actually asked a few, who described that feeling to me, and I can honestly say, I never felt that way in my life. I asked around to my female friends, and they don't feel that way either. It seems to me that women take their gender for granted, They don't go around singing, "I feel pretty." If  someone was to ask me how it feels to be a woman, I'd probably describe the pain of minstral cramps,  cause I figure that is the only thing I or any other woman feels that is any different from what a man feels.

 

6. If a person had a transgender operation, what are the odds of a straight, normal, hetherosexual person wanting to date them or marry them? How could they tell people they date that they are transexual without getting gay bashed? Is it really fair for them to try to pass as women, and pick up men, when in fact most men will only be repulsed when they find out, and it might even cause them to doubt their own masculinity?

 

7. Don't you think that all this talk about gay and transgender on TV causes more and more people to become gender confused? I have heard people say that young people need to consider their sexual preference... in my day we didnt' consider anything of the sort. It was just assumed, but a small precentage of people were still gay. I think if someone is gay they would know it without thought or discussion.

 

8. Being molested or raped brings on a lot of confusing, self loathing, and general distress. Is there any link between having gay sex, whether willingly or unwillingly before the age of concent, and being gender confused? Couldn't being forced or coerced into gay sex make a man think he is gay or transgender?

 

Again I am not trying to be offensive, these are just things I wonder about, and am afraid to ask people I know...could anyone explain any of this to me? 

Quote From: yorkerpup

What your body is and what you feel you are are completely different things.
One major problem is, we say that baseball is for a boy and Barbie's are for a girl. If we would be open enough to let a girl play with whatever toy they wanted, things would be different. Don't classify a toy or activity as male and female. Any person can do it!
I am Co-Vice President for a group for trans gender and inter sexed people. We educate and fight for change.
A parent should respect their child's choice. I don't see anywhere in the Bible that says only females can wear dresses and only males can wear pants. The idea of that is just ridiculous. Plus, I was always taught that God is loving and we should love others and treat them the way they want to be treated, labeling them and telling them they are wrong and all of this you want to do IS WRONG AND AGAINST WHAT GOD TAUGHT US!

Quote From: t_wolfman2087

it is easy for someone who has never dealt witht the issue to say what they "would or should do" in this situation. But speaking from first hand experience it is destructive to a childs psychy to force them (a TG child) to live a way that their mind tells them is wrong. I have aa best friend from high school who is TG. I watched as his parents tried to force him to dress and act like a boy. Everyday he would come to school depressed beyong belief. I found him one day in the bathroom with his arms cut open for crying out loud, this due to the fact that; according to his journal; he planned on killing himself because his father told him that if he did not change, he would never accept him as his son or daughter. Why is it so hard for someone to just accept another person for who they are and not how this twisted society tells us we should act. We can accept biggomists and thieves and homosexuals but we cannot accept a guy who wants to be a girl or vise versa? To try to force these people into living a lie shows you to be selfish, self-serving, hypocritical (as in the case of the gentleman from the show who argued the parents should step up), and insecure in their own standing. People should learn to just accept others and stop being so overcritical and just worry about what is going on with themselves.

 

Now to get to the parents on the show. I applaud you for supporting your children. If the parents cannot accept and support their own children who will? Now about the hormonal theropy. NO NO NO NO NOOO!!!! Absolutely Not! In some cases in fact more often then not this is just a stage that children go through when they are influenced more by the opposite sex then their own. Wait to see if your child will grow out of it first. If not after puberty this is a topic that must be discussed between the parents, child, and (i stress this point) a licensed psychiatric professional. Hormonal theropy is a life changing decission. Do not take it lightly. If you are not sure you are doing the right thing, take a look at your child, is he/she happy, or does he/she always seem to be depressed? You as the parent will know when you look at your childs emotional  well being as to whether you are doing the right thing or not.