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Topic : 10/29 Gender Confused Children

Number of Replies: 1316
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Created on : Friday, October 24, 2008, 02:51:47 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil tackles the sensitive topic of children who identify more with the opposite sex. What do you do if your son wants to wear dresses and play with dolls? Or if your daughter tells you she wants to be a boy? Should parents chock it up to being a phase that their children will grow out of, or should they intervene right away? Meet Melissa and Tim, whose 8-year-old son declared himself to be a girl when he was just 3 years old. Now, they allow their child to live as a girl and wonder if and when they should begin hormone therapy. Then, when Mary’s son was 8, he told her he felt like a girl, and Mary allowed him to experiment with dressing as a female. Now a teenager, her son is more comfortable living as a male -- but Mary wonders if she caused his confusion. Joining the discussion are experts with differing points of view: Dr. Dan Siegel, professor and clinical psychiatrist at UCLA School of Medicine, and Glenn Stanton, author and research fellow with the organization Focus on the Family. Is gender identity something we’re born with, or is it influenced by parents and environment? Don’t miss this heated discussion, then talk about the show here..

Find out what happened on the show.

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October 31, 2008, 11:07 pm PDT

penis and vagina

Quote From: rupunzell

It's pretty arrogant to project your judgment upon others based on your expectations. Fact is, there are many who are born with varying combinations of Penis and Vagina and sex chromosomes that are not XX or XY and sex hormone insensitive. It seems you are totally un-aware of these factual realities of the human condition. Human beings are NOT always binary female or male based on genitalia. Better do some serious studying on this topic before seeing the world of nature and the human condition from such a narrow prespective.
I have heard of people having a penis and a vagina, but I haven't seen any proof.  And if you think a transexual is the same as having a penis and a vagina, you need to do some more studying.
 
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October 31, 2008, 11:17 pm PDT

why did I respond...

Quote From: tyler1

Really?  Where do man boobs come into play exactly?
I'm not a doctor, but I guess they have more of the female chromosome than the male.  You can ask the same question about women.  Why do they have hair on their body.  It's really common sense.  If one of your parents is hairy, there is a strong chance you will be hairy.
 
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October 31, 2008, 11:30 pm PDT

hello

I don't think there's anything wrong with these children/people. They should be able to wear whatever clothes they want to school, they're just clothes. I think it's great that people can be so different from each other.  It would be a boring world if every plant and flower looked exactly the same.  This is the year 2008, not 2008 BC.  I'd like to think society has evolved a little bit since the invention of the wheel.  Do we really need to ridicule those who are different?  That's why it's so easy for the government and media to control people.  We police each other and scorn anyone that doesn't follow the social norms that are set by the television and magazines.  What's wrong with these interesting people?  They're good people with something to contribute to society. 
 
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November 1, 2008, 12:17 am PDT

Don't teach children that ridicule should dictate whether or not to follow your beliefs

I was hearing that parents shouldn't support their childrens belief in the gender they feel inside and to express it on the outside too.

Not supporting them would be the same as teaching them to lie about how they really feel.

Its right that you need to warn your children that what they want may well expose them to ridicule or out right attacks if society is not yet mature enough to deal with and support them instead of judging them.

But the same thing happened to Rape victims.Even the police and courts as well as society decided they must have done something to deserve it! But even the victims were tricked by some of the more insidious monsters that used the fact that physical touch can be used to get a physical reaction from some parts of the body while the mind is being destroyed along with the victims sense of safety and ability to survive.This in turn gave some vivtims a sense of completly misplaced guilt. And people around them treated them as guilty too or unworthy of justice in court. Thank the Lord these brave victims not only survived they stood up for their right to be heard, seen and supported and given justice in court in spite of the inhumane ridicule.Ridicule is a reason to be brave not to hide who you really are so that no one ever sees the real you!

 
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November 1, 2008, 12:50 am PDT

Transgender Suicide Rates

Quote From: tyler1

I think it would be horrifying to feel/know you were a girl and look down and saw a penis between your legs.  And vise versa.  Welcome to your nightmare that few will understand.    You'd feel horribly betrayed and angry I'm sure.    What do you do?  Kill yourself or give in to the pressure from christians, so as not to upset, threaten or scare them.   Just a nightmare.   I"m surprised more are not choosing suicide.   Everyone deserves to be who *they* want to be.  Not who others *think* they should be.   All precious children who deserve love, compassion and understanding.  Not judgement or others imposing *their * belief system on them.    It breaks my heart the pressure adults with their own personal agendas put on them.  Sham on all of you who feel the need to control others out of your own pathetic fears.
Yes, it is because of the ridicule and violence heaped on those who are different that drives so many people, whether transgender, gay, or anything different from the "norm," to suicide. Forcing a transgender person to be "happy" in their birth gender is a literal death sentence for so many. It is estimated that over 50 percent of transgender people have attempted (and all too many succeed) suicide. And since so many transgender kids (and adults) will hide this from everyone, these rates may actually be higher. I would not be here writing this tonight if not for the intervention of my spouse. I too would be a statistic, and one which no one probably would have known the true reason. It was only after this that I truly understood even within myself that I had to make the attempt to transition. The way I finally figured it out was that if I failed in this transition then I could always kill myself later. Instead, I found the true love of my spouse (who has stayed with me), my family, and almost all of my friends. I found out for the first time in my life what happiness actually is, and yet it took decades of suffering and almost ending it all to get to that point.

It is all you people who believe that you know better than those who are actually living this condition, that destroy so many lives. Stop foisting your morality and concepts onto us, when there is no way for you to understand what this is without being inside our head. At least try to listen and understand as much as possible, and do not ignore the person themselves. That is the way it is with these kids. They must not be ignored. More lives will be lost if you do.

Luckily I happen to live in California, a state that has full trangender protections under the law. Hopefully that will continue after Tuesday's election, where it is fervently hoped that once and for all it will be possible for any couple who love one another may be together with all the full and legal rights and privelages that entails. I sincerely hope that the religious dogma of hatred and discrimination will not hold sway on that day.

And on a very proud personal note, just today I finally received the final confirmation of who I am in the mail as the state just issued me my proper birth certificate reflecting my proper name and proper gender. My old certificate no longer exists and I am finally a whole and complete person. This was a day I never believed in all my wildest dreams I would ever live to see. Let everyone have that same happiness in their lives. Don't destroy more people just because you might think it is the right way. We are whole and complete people, not some demon or monster as so many of you might like to believe.

Michelle
 
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November 1, 2008, 12:56 am PDT

not that this will make any difference to you, but for the edification of others I will respond

Quote From: zookeeper1

If you are going to be a transexual, you shouldn't have children.  This makes it hard on the child and confuses them.  They shouldn't marry a woman knowing they want to be a woman.

 Time and time again in this discussion, well meaning but uninformed people have insisted that gender variant people are simply "confused" and all they need to make that confusion go away is to be immersed in activities and behaviors that reinforce sterotypical behaviors associated with their birth sex.

And despite the repeated claims that "once they turn 18 they can choose to do whatever they want", in reality families, friends, churches, employers and society in general do not stop trying to "cure" the non-transitioned individual by suggesting that he is just confused and can make it go away by immersing himself in stereotypical gender roles and "acting like a man".

So since all the tonka toys and cap guns and crew cuts didn't already work, he is then faced with adopting stereotypical *adult* gender roles and behaviors, and the two most obvious ones are:

get married

have kids

So the transperson, who is desperate to try ANYTHING that might make his suffering go away and make him "normal" takes this advice in good faith, gets married, has kids...and eventually learns that just like all the other stuff he tried as a kid, it doesn't work and the feelings persist.

When he can no longer keep up the sham and comes clean, it absolutely can wreak havoc on the life of his family...but it is the height of hypocrisy to them blame the transperson for making a good faith effort to do what he has been told his entire life will "fix" him...if any blame lies with him at all it is in listening to family, church and society rather than listening to his own heart and mind.

Add to this the fact that family, chuch and society in general all tell gender variant people both implicitly and explicitly that their feelings are shameful and should be kept hidden, and you have a situation where meeting people who would love and accept them regardless of their gender expression cannot happen in the atmosphere of openness and honesty that good relationships are built on. Once again by accepting the advice and admonitions of others in good faith, the transperson is doomed to either live a lie and eventually disappoint their partner, or forgo *ever* having any intimate relationships and the joy, satisfaction and comfort they bring.

As for "confusing" children, when a parent transitions early in a child's life or before having children the kids seldom have any lasting problems with it at all- mostly because their heads haven't been crammed full of bigotry and intolerance yet, and they learn the true nature of the transgender parent as someone who loves and cares for them.

Besides that, transitioning usually allows a person to lose much if not all of the anger, sadness and depression they have been burdened with their entire life, as well as getting rid of the clumsy, fake approximations of the gender behavior that was expected of them. In the case of male born TS's this false "masculine" persona often involves being cold, aloof, quick to anger, insensitive, overbearing, intolerant, drunk, etc., none of which makes for a good parent...

SO many male born transpeople hide their natural tendencies to be warm, kind, sensitive, caring, thoughtful, etc. because they are deathly afraid to show any sign of stereotypical "feminine" traits, lest their true nature be revealed...once again, something that people like many on this board are convinced is the answer/cure to their problems- repress it, hide it, pretend it doesn't exist... "just act like a man".
 
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November 1, 2008, 2:24 am PDT

Very nicly explained

Quote From: pch2008

I was about to turn off my tv tonight, when I just happened to see a commercial for this topic being discussed on tomorrow's show (oops, TODAY'S show at this point!). I had to set it for my DVR to watch.

How strongly do I feel about this topic? I registered on here just this moment, just so people could read this and hear me out. I am a biological male and always have been. I was brought up in a loving, even church going household and still love my God and hold my faith dear. Why do I say "still"? Because I have this background and "yet" I am transgender as well. If anyone would NOT be like this, it would be someone raised the way that I was!

Yes, I do think that there is the rare case when there is a child that is confused and they are not truly "TG"...however, I think most are TG if they think so. Look at it this way...yes there are cultural influences that are debatable in all this...but if somebody is so very young in particular that is like this (I watched 20/20 with Barbara Walters show a biological boy who was 3 who obviously has not been influenced by society yet subtly or not so subtly...his "brain sex" was very, very obviously female, yet he was born with male anatomy, make sense? For those people that say that God does not make mistakes, you are right....because "these people" are no more "mistakes", than you, than me, or the person (think about it) who is born with Elephant Man Disease and deformed! The very sad thing is that thinking like this keeps people back and does not open minds to even listen, let alone change. My Mom does not even know that I sometimes go out looking like the opposite gender, and she would probably literally have a heart attack if she did....why? Because people raised like I was are "not supposed to be like this". The sad irony is that I used to live right under her roof and hear her say things against TG people, and it was clear that the thought never even crossed her mind that I could have possibly been one of the very same people she talked bad about, not knowing it was her very own son that was TG. My father passed away this month, and went to his grave never even knowing this about me. Trust me...think about it....NOBODY WOULD CHOOSE THIS WILLINGLY. Does a guy wake up and "decide" to put on a skirt and wonder what it feels like? I used to throw away literally hundreds of dollars worth of wigs, skirts, jeans, etc that were my female expression manifesting itself physically in accordance to how I would be thinking and wanting to express myself at the time. This happened multiple times, feeling society pressure, and (very falsely) thinking this would stop "THIS time". Before you know it, you could die before ever living the life you should and accepting it of yourself in the first place! I stopped throwing those things away once I learned about the subject (and yes had therapy to learn that this is who I am and it does NOT go away). I embrace it now for the most part, and just know its part of my thinking process and my personality..and I am so much more happy, relaxed, etc. because of it.

Gender is a very fluid thing. It is NOT always black & white!! It is society that needs to change and understand this, not transgender people...or they will have even more depressed people and suicides on their hands than have already happened for people unsuccessfully trying to "conform" to what is "normal". Gender is so fluid that that is why there are people that go out like the opposite gender part of the time to "let out what society doesnt let them let out" for our rigid social standards and pressures, all the way to the TG people that are out like that 100% of the time.....those are usually the transsexual people where the inclination is so strong, that it is CONSTANT instead of fairly regularly.

Sorry this is so long, but I think at least this needed to be said/vented, at least by me. I am so glad that a respectable show like Dr Phil's (and more and more like them) and talking about this sometimes and less and less exposure for the horrible negative stereotype that certain other daytime shows are like. That is not what the Transgender Community on the whole is like at all!

So again, for those that talk about judging, mistakes, and the like...dont do that too much, because I am living proof that you could have a son or daughter that is TG and you dont even know it, because what you have let your children hear regularly, and at such a young age, already makes them believe they can never tell you the truth about them....and you will never truly know 100% of who your child is.....ever. Sadly, that is my background in my life and so many others with undeserved shame. Fortunately I have a wonderful network of supportive friends that actually listened when I got the courage to tell them about this pat of me, and learned about what I have been through and how I think in comparison and difference to many "normal" people! My sexual orientation is heterosexual still, like most TG, yes....but sexual orientation and sexual IDENTITY are two very, very different things.

Please watch this episode people...you are strangers to me, obviously, and I am ASKING you to watch it...TALK about it with the people you know watch the show. Heck, talk about it with your family...hint to loved ones friends and family that you saw it and open the lines of communication on this...you never know. Most people think they dont know someone like this, when the truth is they often do, but it is "hidden" so much that nobody knows and that is quite sad. ..LIke I said, my family would never guess this about me and frankly they are missing out in so many ways...we are so close, yet they still dont and never will know 100% of me after all of these years...that part of me that NEEDS to be expressing "both sides" (genders).... but I know how close minded they are, and even though I am "their blood", they have likely already made up their mind like so many others seem to do without even hearing the facts. :( If you are interested, look at websites like wikipedia, and keyword transgender. You will learn more and I sincerely thank you for reading this and possibly watching this episode. =)

i said a thank you prayer after reading  your message.

thanking dear god for much we have learned.

thanking dear god we are  not  in     witch hunt     intellagance years.

i wish you    w e l l .

thank you for honouring you parents belifs and not rebelling against them...

 
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November 1, 2008, 7:25 am PDT

boobies :-)

Quote From: zookeeper1

I'm not a doctor, but I guess they have more of the female chromosome than the male.  You can ask the same question about women.  Why do they have hair on their body.  It's really common sense.  If one of your parents is hairy, there is a strong chance you will be hairy.
It's hard to tell sometimes if people are being serious because you cannot see body language, but humans have body hair as a left over from our monkey days. Evolution doncha know. As for man boobs, all men have nipples because we all start out as female. Boobs are fat, so if you're fat you have bigger boobs. It's really very simple.
 
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November 1, 2008, 7:52 am PDT

How Do you Konw?

Quote From: zookeeper1

Please honey,

                          I do not hate myself.  There may be some things I don't like about myself, but I'm not going to change into a man.  And I do not hate transgender or transexual people.  I don't think anyone should be mistreated.  I just think it is wrong to change the way you were born.

That individuals are NOT born gender differnt? For the simplistic rational that human beings that do not fit your simplistic idea of binary male female, it seems you just cannot accept this fact of the human condition.Rather than accepting human beings are not born binary male or female you project yourself upon all of humanity. This is simply a very arrogant way of treating other members of the human family as it is based on your own reality and physical being without seeing any other possibilities of the human condition. There is also the lack of respect for human beings that are different than you.

Much of your views appear to come from a total lack of compassion and being able to see the world from another member of the human family's prespective. It is very easy to mis-treat "people" by not being able to "walk a mile in their shoes" and it required compassion to prevent mis-treating "people".

How humanity treats those who are gender differnt can be a test for anothers sense of compassion and sense of their own humanity and how they treat other membes of the human family.
 
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November 1, 2008, 8:48 am PDT

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: zookeeper1

I'm not a doctor, but I guess they have more of the female chromosome than the male.  You can ask the same question about women.  Why do they have hair on their body.  It's really common sense.  If one of your parents is hairy, there is a strong chance you will be hairy.
I was trying to be funny, lighten the mood. 
 
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