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Topic : 10/29 Gender Confused Children

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Created on : Friday, October 24, 2008, 02:51:47 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil tackles the sensitive topic of children who identify more with the opposite sex. What do you do if your son wants to wear dresses and play with dolls? Or if your daughter tells you she wants to be a boy? Should parents chock it up to being a phase that their children will grow out of, or should they intervene right away? Meet Melissa and Tim, whose 8-year-old son declared himself to be a girl when he was just 3 years old. Now, they allow their child to live as a girl and wonder if and when they should begin hormone therapy. Then, when Mary’s son was 8, he told her he felt like a girl, and Mary allowed him to experiment with dressing as a female. Now a teenager, her son is more comfortable living as a male -- but Mary wonders if she caused his confusion. Joining the discussion are experts with differing points of view: Dr. Dan Siegel, professor and clinical psychiatrist at UCLA School of Medicine, and Glenn Stanton, author and research fellow with the organization Focus on the Family. Is gender identity something we’re born with, or is it influenced by parents and environment? Don’t miss this heated discussion, then talk about the show here..

Find out what happened on the show.

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January 13, 2009, 8:06 am PST

gcc

oh my gosh! i've only ever responded to one show, but i am sitting here watching the show and ready to explode! I understand the drs. have probably been successful with gc kids, but i so feel for the women with the 13 yr. old "girl". The assumption that a mother being enmeshed with her son causes gender confusion is absurd and that IS the message those drs are sending. I was a single mom of a boy for 8 yrs. He had no contact with his father, father wanted NOTHING to do with him. We were very close, "enmeshed" if you will. My world revolved around him. He played with dolls and wore my high heels around until he was 6. Now he is a 20 yr old college sophomore. He has had many girlfriends and is not homosexual or gender confused. He IS a very sensitive, loving, compassionate, perceptive man that treats his girlfriends with great tenderness and respect. I believe this is because he and I were so close and I tried to instill in him how to treat and respect women. He also loves sports and many other MAN things. I do think that the mother is very defensive, (I probably would be too) probably because she hasn't gotten a lot of support. She and her family does need some counseling and am happy Dr. Phil is offering that. I would be interested to see what happens after the young lady does go through puberty. This is a very interesting subject and would like to see more shows like this and maybe a little more details or profiles of other kids that have been successful with the hormonal therapy and the drs. that claim they can change gcc and homosexuals back into the "roles" they were born to be.
 
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January 13, 2009, 8:18 am PST

Who is the intolerant here?

As far as the show is concerned, could you please shut up that woman and let someone else talk!!!???!!!

I mean, she might say that she is all resolved and content about her decision and how she handled her son's transgender, but she clearly has a lot of anger.  She is probably mad that these men represent a therapy that worked and wishes she had been able to do that...  But that's not the point...shut up already...you can't call other people intolerant if you never actually stop ranting and raving long enough to let anyone else speak or share their position.  Enough already .

And as far as the comment about hetersexuality being natural, why is that so offensive?  It has to be natural because its the only way people can reproduce.  Not being able to continue on your species seems a bit unnatural, doesn't it?  I mean lets not be so thinned skinned here.  Why are we so hung up on having to tell everyone they are marvelous "just the way they are"?  I mean, if things are so marvelous, then I guess they woudn't be on these shows, eh?  Looks like a lot of pain and chaos to me.  And if it's so natural to be gay, or transgender or whatever, then why all the therapies, support groups, etc.  The last time I checked, those things aren't needed for heterosexuals.  I am so sick of the political correctness.  No one can say anything anymore, for fear of being called "judgemental."  Heaven forbid, I mean the very people who are always ranting and accusing others of being judgemental (like the guest Mom was doing today) won't shut up long enough to realize how intolerant THEY are being!

If therapies work that help the child/person find their born gender, then why not listen and learn from them?  I've heard people that went through the therapy say they are grateful for the help.  That hostile Mom has some issues, and I feel sorry for her child.

 
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January 13, 2009, 8:29 am PST

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: philly8

The mind boggling thing I can't seem to not notice, even from Dr. Phil, is while bringing across the reason for bringing a subject like this to his show, is in his terminology referred to as:

How does a mother of "this" child or  How does "this" child.

The word "this" is putting a slurr on the humanity of all children regardless of the challenge or situation a parent is living with in 'their' "SON" or 'their' "DAUGHTER"

The wording gives us a peak that even Dr. Phil, is not addressing the needs and the experience behind the scenes as a mother or father does.

He said, "To help 'the' mother of a child...."

Should alwaysssss be worded as:
To help all mothers and fathers of children.

Or To help sons and daughters.

Not 'this' child or 'a' child.

God I hope this message gets read, because simple adjectives really do matter and really do give even the person who uses them wrongly, an inner look at what words they choose when speaking.

The words: It, This, and The, need to be used without reference to a human being, period.

As in "the child", say she or he....or as towards a parent, say what the truth role is of that parent and child.

They are a Mom/Mother or a Dad/Father, and children areTheir Son or Their Daughter.

It is an outrage that even Dr. Phil can't address titles right.

I am whole heartedly on the side of Toni, and the Doctors that were seated with her.

Be careful what words you choose to address our humanity, it saddens me that people only recognize the wrong words when it's a racial subject or an adult gender subject.

Children are our future and have very sensitive reactions to how they're addressed...

Toni, you are a remarkable Mother and you, and your children will become a whole from you and their Father's love...LOVE WILL WIN in the long run, and you will see that when they're all past the high school and middle school ages..when they're adults :)
So know you have much support from many people!

Please, stop being so overly sensitive.  I am so tired of PC types that have to read into every tiny word to try to extract some additional meaning...and usually looking for something to prove their point that they or someone else is being harmed in some way...its so martyr.  So what if Dr. Phil says "this" or "that" or his or her?  If I say I'm here to pick up my child, and the daycare worker says "this one?" to clarify my child over another, has my child somehow been victimized?  Please!  Get a life already.

 
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January 13, 2009, 8:36 am PST

surprised

So if my child has the desire to be a bully, or maybe they don't want to wear clothes. They may just want to eat all the time or maybe they want to be selfish all the time. I guess your saying we should let them be who they are. I think this is one of the few times I have to disagree with  Dr Phil. As parents we are to do whats best and moral for our children. And I'll be the first to tell you, it is not easy. I have always felt as a parent, I was to raise resposible adults, and as most parents know, kids cannot see past the moment.. I can't help but worry for these children who are being allowed to continue in their confusion. (not to mention the siblings of these kids). We need to help these boys be boys after all they were designed that way.
 
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January 13, 2009, 8:38 am PST

this is really gross

I have 2 sons and I am really close to them as well as their father. I would have never let them turn into girls. And the mom on there was really a turn off and rude to your other guests. And of course the lesbian on the show is going to agree ....that that is way they were born. And where are the all the dads when this stuff happens. It seems it is always divorced moms this happens to. And it really bothered me that she said over and over that she wasnt close to her child. Maybe she should have been and this might not have happend.
chrisvalk@nc.rr.com
 
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January 13, 2009, 8:38 am PST

this is really gross

I have 2 sons and I am really close to them as well as their father. I would have never let them turn into girls. And the mom on there was really a turn off and rude to your other guests. And of course the lesbian on the show is going to agree ....that that is way they were born. And where are the all the dads when this stuff happens. It seems it is always divorced moms this happens to. And it really bothered me that she said over and over that she wasnt close to her child. Maybe she should have been and this might not have happend.
chrisvalk@nc.rr.com
 
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January 13, 2009, 8:39 am PST

omg

Quote From: garthfan

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the boy that wants to be a woman, or a woman who wants to be a man. I think that a person is who they want to be no matter what age. At 11, they are starting to find themselves and realize what and who they are. I have a friend who is Trans-sexual, she was once a boy and I don't treat her like the boy she used to be but yet I treat her like a woman that she wants to be. It should make no difference whether they are homosexual, trans, bi or straight, they should be treated like people and not like dirt. They are people who are born like they are its all about chemicals and how the mindset is as a baby in the womb of the mother. They do not have a disease that will kill you, and are perfectly fine people.
every thing is wrong with this
 

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January 13, 2009, 8:59 am PST

Biologically-- what does this mean?

It seems that we have not backed off from this emotionally charged issue to look at the "big picture."

Looking at the big picture is not always thought of as a positive thing because it might not fit with what we

want right now.

What we want right now is to take away the hurt and confusion these kids and adults are feeling, and the

hurt that others inflict on them. That is human and compassionate. That says good things about us.

However, biologically speaking, what does it mean for a race or culture to embrace this direction?

I know there are people who are very offended by the use of the word "natural," however, if we look at nature, we would be worried about the health and well-being of a species if we were to see a situation

happening that would decrease the gene pool. If we increasingly saw a lack of interest of the male for

for the female of that species, biologists would be concerned about the general health of the continuation

of the species.

Why are we seeing this shift in gender identification? What is happening that the male baby is increasingly  rejecting the hormone that helps them identify themselves with the chromosomes

and genitals they are formed with? Is anyone interested in these questions or just the politically correct response?

 
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January 13, 2009, 9:03 am PST

Gender Identity in Children

I was upset about the way that the mother was feeling.  Sehe had mad a choice after prevous efforts and lengthy time of trying to decide how to handle the concern she had that her son was not comfortable with his identity and wanted to be a girl.  The mother apparently had struggled with this and made a decision based on the apparent desperation of her son. Now that the decision was made and supported by the mother (and apparently the father at the time), to be the person she really wanted to be, the mother seemed to have to defend her decision to the physicians who felt that their way was the "natural" and accepted way that all children should should be "encouraged to develop".  I felt so sorry for that mother.  I am a single mother with three adult children, 1-43 yr son and a daughter - 40 and another daughter 38.  At times members of my family  thought that my son was more feminine than masculine.  I did encourage him to be a boy, because he reallly did not act like he wanted to be anything else.  He did have counseling as he had difficulty with "who he was" relative to what other contemporary boys were doing, etc.  He wore a Milwaukee Brace and had not played sports of any kind and he was very studious.  I supported his studies and interst in Greek Mythology, etc.  I tried not to make him feel like his interests were "pipe dreams".  The worst thing in the world, I think is to make a person, especially a young person feel as though there is something wrong with themselves.  At most we all have trouble at sme point in our ives, feeling that what we are doing is right and we try very hard not to be influenced by what others think. 

    It must be very hard for this young girl, her brothers and her mother to adapt to the changes.  It appeared from some of the clips that the girl is very excited about her identity.  I think that the family should do all that is necessary to accept ( with professional help if necessary) to see that this sister, and daughter is the same person, with the same "links" that you spoke of Dr. Phil - things in their ives that they can remember to link them together.  At some point, I can imagine that they may be able to laugh about some of the tricks they used to play on each other and get away with it, and now how the sister knows what her brothers are about since she might have shared some of those thoughts and behaviors at one time and now whe has "one up on them".  As for the brothers in school, they will probably get a lot of slack from friends about their sister.  With expressing feelings and thoughts through counseling, hopefully they can learn to defend, or at best ignore the comments of others.  Sometimes it is better to disregard, sometimes it's better to defend, whatever is the best course of action.  This may need some professional help for all of them.  I do empathize with this family.  No one should feel less than a human being because of the color of their skin, their ethnic orientation or their personal preferences re: gender or selection of friends, hobbies, etc. 

   I happen to be an African American and because of my light complexion, I caught heck from black and white people, peers and adults.  It is not a comfortable feeling as you are growing up.....not to feel a part of anything...... trying to excel in ways to make your own place in the world.  Once I came to grips with the fact that I was who I was and I had nothing to do with my "hue", I began to feel much better about myself.  I was an adult with 2 children and was trying to help them feel good about themselves.  You have to set the example, I thought, or they will be like me, unsure of themselves.  It took some counseling, and after a divorce, it ws even harder.  But I am 69.5 and going strong.  I am doing things that I did not do earlier like ballet and dancing classes - just becaus I want to.  Everyone has to have their day to be all that they can be!  I strongly believe in that.  You only pass through this life one time.  You might as well be as happy as you can and pass your love of life on to others!  I am a Christian and prayers and believing in God and His power made a great difference.

 

I love your show Dr. Phil and you have a very talented way of handling and diffusing emotional situations on our show.

 
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January 13, 2009, 9:37 am PST

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: freakycat125

I find so many aspects of this subject absolutely confusing and illogical. I really have to admit I do not understand... despite the fact I have read about, and even know homosexual and transgender people. I hope no one will be offended if I ask a few questions.

 

1. What do clothes have to do with Gender? I mean clothing is cultural, and it varies in different countries and through out history. The early Roman men wore short skirt like garments... and sometimes the Greeks wore nothing at all... I am certain Jesus didn't own a pair of pants, because they weren't invented yet in his day. Bras, Pants, and underwear are basically modern inventions. Therefore it could not be a biological, instinctive or inborn need for someone male or female to wear women's underwear. Fruther natural born women do not wear dresses very often at all, Most women don't wear nearly as much make-up, or worry about their hair and clothing as much as trans gender people. Honestly most women don't dress that differently from men. So why is clothing so much of an issue with these confused gender people?

 

2. What difference does it make really what gender you are? I mean sexual preference sure, people like what they like I guess. I am a woman who is attracted to men, It would not occur to me to even think of being with a woman, so I suppose that if a man felt the same way for some reason, then it would be hard to change.... but gender for the sake of gender only... like wanting to be the opposite sex just because you feel like a man or a woman? What is the point of that? For example why would a man change his gender to female, and then be a lesbian? Why would he bother to change his gender... and apart from sexual preference, what difference does it make if you are male or female? WEll other than the difference in economic opportunities. It seems to me a man getting a sex change cuts his paycheck in half, and volunteers to recieve condesending attitudes, and descrimination... even if he successfully convinced people he was a real woman. Why would anyone want to be a woman if they were not born one?

 

3. Why do interests, toys and hobbies have to be gender specific? Plenty of little girls like to climb trees, and play with toy trucks. I remember in kindergarten they made the little girls play with dolls and the boys play with trucks. I used to take trucks away from little boys every time the teacher left the room, cause dolls got boring after a while. I don't think that made me a guy... I think assuming gender is based in toy preference makes any sense at all. Fruther I still think trading recipies, and a lot of other feme activities are boring. I don't think that makes me a guy either, just a woman who would rather be in a room full of men listening to them talk, than in a room full of women listening to them talk. On the other hand, some men like being around mostly women, and listening to them talk about clothes, and hair. Some men like to cook. That doesn't make them gay, or women... it might just  mean they like women a lot? Could I be right on this? How are toys and hobbies gender related anyway? People enjoy what they enjoy. Why can't people do whatever they want to do regardless of gender?  

 

4. What is wrong with just letting people wear what they want, and play with whatever toys they want, and just not attaching a gender to it? Trying to pass for the opposite sex is another matter, but if men just think our clothing is more intersting, why not make silk shirts in pastel colors for men, Women already enjoy the right to wear jeans, and slacks. Why not just have clothes, instead of women's clothes and men's clothes?

 

5. I've heard gender confused men say they felt like women... but how do they know what it feels like to be a woman in the first place. I actually asked a few, who described that feeling to me, and I can honestly say, I never felt that way in my life. I asked around to my female friends, and they don't feel that way either. It seems to me that women take their gender for granted, They don't go around singing, "I feel pretty." If  someone was to ask me how it feels to be a woman, I'd probably describe the pain of minstral cramps,  cause I figure that is the only thing I or any other woman feels that is any different from what a man feels.

 

6. If a person had a transgender operation, what are the odds of a straight, normal, hetherosexual person wanting to date them or marry them? How could they tell people they date that they are transexual without getting gay bashed? Is it really fair for them to try to pass as women, and pick up men, when in fact most men will only be repulsed when they find out, and it might even cause them to doubt their own masculinity?

 

7. Don't you think that all this talk about gay and transgender on TV causes more and more people to become gender confused? I have heard people say that young people need to consider their sexual preference... in my day we didnt' consider anything of the sort. It was just assumed, but a small precentage of people were still gay. I think if someone is gay they would know it without thought or discussion.

 

8. Being molested or raped brings on a lot of confusing, self loathing, and general distress. Is there any link between having gay sex, whether willingly or unwillingly before the age of concent, and being gender confused? Couldn't being forced or coerced into gay sex make a man think he is gay or transgender?

 

Again I am not trying to be offensive, these are just things I wonder about, and am afraid to ask people I know...could anyone explain any of this to me? 

"What difference does it make really what gender you are? I mean sexual preference sure, people like what they like I guess. I am a woman who is attracted to men, It would not occur to me to even think of being with a woman, so I suppose that if a man felt the same way for some reason, then it would be hard to change.... but gender for the sake of gender only... like wanting to be the opposite sex just because you feel like a man or a woman? What is the point of that? For example why would a man change his gender to female, and then be a lesbian? Why would he bother to change his gender... and apart from sexual preference, what difference does it make if you are male or female? WEll other than the difference in economic opportunities. It seems to me a man getting a sex change cuts his paycheck in half, and volunteers to recieve condesending attitudes, and descrimination... even if he successfully convinced people he was a real woman. Why would anyone want to be a woman if they were not born one"

 
I couldn't even force myself to finish reading your post after this last "question". I understand if you have some confusion, its understandable.  But to say that you KNOW transgendered people, and to not have any idea how CHANGING YOUR SEX could make a dfference inhow they FEEL?

My boyfriend is a woman with GID, and I refer to him ONLY as a male. I am not a lesbian, I have never been attracted to a woman, not that I feel there would be anything wrong with this if  i WAS.   He will be havinng the surgery to become a man, and I support him 110%.  His family has a hard time accepting this though. But try to put yourself in the shoes of a transgendered person.  Transgendered people, who feel and relate to the opposite sex as being THEIR sex, are usually DISGUTED with their genitals. They don't feel like they belong there. Now imagine, you are a woman, and INSIDE, you are a man. Simple things to us, like shopping for clothes, Doctors appointments, or USING A PUBLIC WASHROOM... can you imagine how much harder those things BECOME? 

So for these men and women who are placed in the wrong bodies at birth, and YES i believe that it IS possible for this to happen, a sex change will make ALL the difference in the world. YOu said yourself, that you are attracted to who you are attracted to. So My b/f is attracted to women....  that can't be changed. But he doesn't and has NEVER felt complete in the body he has been given. So what?...  to you, the answer would be "just be a lesbian?" Sometimes things aren;t that simple. People are who they are. Why would it be so bad for someone to have a sex change to feel WHOLE and be happy with their lives, probably for the first TIME in thier lives... but it is acceptable for people to go around getting breast implants and nose jobs and plastic surgeries just to feel a BIT better about themselves?
 
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