Topic : 10/29 Gender Confused Children

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Created on : Friday, October 24, 2008, 02:51:47 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil tackles the sensitive topic of children who identify more with the opposite sex. What do you do if your son wants to wear dresses and play with dolls? Or if your daughter tells you she wants to be a boy? Should parents chock it up to being a phase that their children will grow out of, or should they intervene right away? Meet Melissa and Tim, whose 8-year-old son declared himself to be a girl when he was just 3 years old. Now, they allow their child to live as a girl and wonder if and when they should begin hormone therapy. Then, when Mary’s son was 8, he told her he felt like a girl, and Mary allowed him to experiment with dressing as a female. Now a teenager, her son is more comfortable living as a male -- but Mary wonders if she caused his confusion. Joining the discussion are experts with differing points of view: Dr. Dan Siegel, professor and clinical psychiatrist at UCLA School of Medicine, and Glenn Stanton, author and research fellow with the organization Focus on the Family. Is gender identity something we’re born with, or is it influenced by parents and environment? Don’t miss this heated discussion, then talk about the show here..

Find out what happened on the show.

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January 13, 2009, 9:37 am PST

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: freakycat125

I find so many aspects of this subject absolutely confusing and illogical. I really have to admit I do not understand... despite the fact I have read about, and even know homosexual and transgender people. I hope no one will be offended if I ask a few questions.

 

1. What do clothes have to do with Gender? I mean clothing is cultural, and it varies in different countries and through out history. The early Roman men wore short skirt like garments... and sometimes the Greeks wore nothing at all... I am certain Jesus didn't own a pair of pants, because they weren't invented yet in his day. Bras, Pants, and underwear are basically modern inventions. Therefore it could not be a biological, instinctive or inborn need for someone male or female to wear women's underwear. Fruther natural born women do not wear dresses very often at all, Most women don't wear nearly as much make-up, or worry about their hair and clothing as much as trans gender people. Honestly most women don't dress that differently from men. So why is clothing so much of an issue with these confused gender people?

 

2. What difference does it make really what gender you are? I mean sexual preference sure, people like what they like I guess. I am a woman who is attracted to men, It would not occur to me to even think of being with a woman, so I suppose that if a man felt the same way for some reason, then it would be hard to change.... but gender for the sake of gender only... like wanting to be the opposite sex just because you feel like a man or a woman? What is the point of that? For example why would a man change his gender to female, and then be a lesbian? Why would he bother to change his gender... and apart from sexual preference, what difference does it make if you are male or female? WEll other than the difference in economic opportunities. It seems to me a man getting a sex change cuts his paycheck in half, and volunteers to recieve condesending attitudes, and descrimination... even if he successfully convinced people he was a real woman. Why would anyone want to be a woman if they were not born one?

 

3. Why do interests, toys and hobbies have to be gender specific? Plenty of little girls like to climb trees, and play with toy trucks. I remember in kindergarten they made the little girls play with dolls and the boys play with trucks. I used to take trucks away from little boys every time the teacher left the room, cause dolls got boring after a while. I don't think that made me a guy... I think assuming gender is based in toy preference makes any sense at all. Fruther I still think trading recipies, and a lot of other feme activities are boring. I don't think that makes me a guy either, just a woman who would rather be in a room full of men listening to them talk, than in a room full of women listening to them talk. On the other hand, some men like being around mostly women, and listening to them talk about clothes, and hair. Some men like to cook. That doesn't make them gay, or women... it might just  mean they like women a lot? Could I be right on this? How are toys and hobbies gender related anyway? People enjoy what they enjoy. Why can't people do whatever they want to do regardless of gender?  

 

4. What is wrong with just letting people wear what they want, and play with whatever toys they want, and just not attaching a gender to it? Trying to pass for the opposite sex is another matter, but if men just think our clothing is more intersting, why not make silk shirts in pastel colors for men, Women already enjoy the right to wear jeans, and slacks. Why not just have clothes, instead of women's clothes and men's clothes?

 

5. I've heard gender confused men say they felt like women... but how do they know what it feels like to be a woman in the first place. I actually asked a few, who described that feeling to me, and I can honestly say, I never felt that way in my life. I asked around to my female friends, and they don't feel that way either. It seems to me that women take their gender for granted, They don't go around singing, "I feel pretty." If  someone was to ask me how it feels to be a woman, I'd probably describe the pain of minstral cramps,  cause I figure that is the only thing I or any other woman feels that is any different from what a man feels.

 

6. If a person had a transgender operation, what are the odds of a straight, normal, hetherosexual person wanting to date them or marry them? How could they tell people they date that they are transexual without getting gay bashed? Is it really fair for them to try to pass as women, and pick up men, when in fact most men will only be repulsed when they find out, and it might even cause them to doubt their own masculinity?

 

7. Don't you think that all this talk about gay and transgender on TV causes more and more people to become gender confused? I have heard people say that young people need to consider their sexual preference... in my day we didnt' consider anything of the sort. It was just assumed, but a small precentage of people were still gay. I think if someone is gay they would know it without thought or discussion.

 

8. Being molested or raped brings on a lot of confusing, self loathing, and general distress. Is there any link between having gay sex, whether willingly or unwillingly before the age of concent, and being gender confused? Couldn't being forced or coerced into gay sex make a man think he is gay or transgender?

 

Again I am not trying to be offensive, these are just things I wonder about, and am afraid to ask people I know...could anyone explain any of this to me? 

"What difference does it make really what gender you are? I mean sexual preference sure, people like what they like I guess. I am a woman who is attracted to men, It would not occur to me to even think of being with a woman, so I suppose that if a man felt the same way for some reason, then it would be hard to change.... but gender for the sake of gender only... like wanting to be the opposite sex just because you feel like a man or a woman? What is the point of that? For example why would a man change his gender to female, and then be a lesbian? Why would he bother to change his gender... and apart from sexual preference, what difference does it make if you are male or female? WEll other than the difference in economic opportunities. It seems to me a man getting a sex change cuts his paycheck in half, and volunteers to recieve condesending attitudes, and descrimination... even if he successfully convinced people he was a real woman. Why would anyone want to be a woman if they were not born one"

 
I couldn't even force myself to finish reading your post after this last "question". I understand if you have some confusion, its understandable.  But to say that you KNOW transgendered people, and to not have any idea how CHANGING YOUR SEX could make a dfference inhow they FEEL?

My boyfriend is a woman with GID, and I refer to him ONLY as a male. I am not a lesbian, I have never been attracted to a woman, not that I feel there would be anything wrong with this if  i WAS.   He will be havinng the surgery to become a man, and I support him 110%.  His family has a hard time accepting this though. But try to put yourself in the shoes of a transgendered person.  Transgendered people, who feel and relate to the opposite sex as being THEIR sex, are usually DISGUTED with their genitals. They don't feel like they belong there. Now imagine, you are a woman, and INSIDE, you are a man. Simple things to us, like shopping for clothes, Doctors appointments, or USING A PUBLIC WASHROOM... can you imagine how much harder those things BECOME? 

So for these men and women who are placed in the wrong bodies at birth, and YES i believe that it IS possible for this to happen, a sex change will make ALL the difference in the world. YOu said yourself, that you are attracted to who you are attracted to. So My b/f is attracted to women....  that can't be changed. But he doesn't and has NEVER felt complete in the body he has been given. So what?...  to you, the answer would be "just be a lesbian?" Sometimes things aren;t that simple. People are who they are. Why would it be so bad for someone to have a sex change to feel WHOLE and be happy with their lives, probably for the first TIME in thier lives... but it is acceptable for people to go around getting breast implants and nose jobs and plastic surgeries just to feel a BIT better about themselves?
 
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January 13, 2009, 9:42 am PST

10/29 Gender Confused Children

Quote From: plexi22

I have 2 sons and I am really close to them as well as their father. I would have never let them turn into girls. And the mom on there was really a turn off and rude to your other guests. And of course the lesbian on the show is going to agree ....that that is way they were born. And where are the all the dads when this stuff happens. It seems it is always divorced moms this happens to. And it really bothered me that she said over and over that she wasnt close to her child. Maybe she should have been and this might not have happend.
chrisvalk@nc.rr.com
OK.... so you have 2 sons and one day. one of your sons, who you are "really close to" approaches you and says he is unhappy with his life, and is on the verge of suicide. The only way your son can feel happy with himself and his life, is to become a female.

Can you HONESTLY say "no I can't let you". Somtimes it IS a matter of life and death.
 
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January 13, 2009, 9:44 am PST

therapists are the problem

Quote From: plexi22

I have 2 sons and I am really close to them as well as their father. I would have never let them turn into girls. And the mom on there was really a turn off and rude to your other guests. And of course the lesbian on the show is going to agree ....that that is way they were born. And where are the all the dads when this stuff happens. It seems it is always divorced moms this happens to. And it really bothered me that she said over and over that she wasnt close to her child. Maybe she should have been and this might not have happend.
chrisvalk@nc.rr.com

These therapists are part of the indoctrination of our children that has been going on for a long time . T hey want them to believe it is ok to be homosexual :so the first time that a child displays some natural curiosity the parent goes all balistic and takes their child to one of hese quacks. They are then told that their child is really hiding the desire to be the gender other than what  he or she is. And we are to halt all rationality and believe that a 3 year old can decide this type of thing. Give me a big old break. A child that age is hardly aware of what they are. They just want to be left alone to play and grow up to be nornal paople.

 
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January 13, 2009, 10:30 am PST

10/29 Gender Confused Children

I think that the way Toni acted on the show was wrong. To disrespect the others was not the way to get her story out there. I wish the other Doctor would have had more of a chance to speak so we could understand their points and not just Toni's
 
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January 13, 2009, 11:18 am PST

Unbelievable

I am a married woman with one child, and I find it absolutely hilarious that anyone could possibly think that getting one of these types of children to play with "boy toys" is going to make them want to be a boy.  I am even more amazed that more time with the father is going to change anything.  Wow, less time with the mother huh?  I wonder what other issues that would cause.  What this boils down to even though no one wants to admit it in an obvious way, is that people have issues with homosexuality due to religious beliefs or whatever.  I am not gender confused nor am I homosexual or bisexual.  I don't have any friends who live their lives that way.  I don't have any family who live their lives that way.  My child is only 5 months old.  I would hope that I wouldn't push absolutely anything on him that would make him miserable.  I would hope that I would be just as "EMOTIONAL" as the mom on the show if people were telling me I was wrong and that my son should spend more time with his father and less time with me.  I would hope that people would not be so ignorant as to think that they understand my child more than his father and I.  It is an absolute outrage for these people that bring homosexuality into this as a choice.  Would you just CHOOSE to be homosexual?  If someone told you that you were suppose to choose to be with any type of person that you could not have feelings for do you think you could do it?  The bottom line is that it is her child and she makes the best decisions for her own.  I'm sure absolutely anyone here does something with their children that any of us could disagree with from something small to something drastic.  How do you feel about people making parenting decisions for you?  For the people that have religious beliefs that decide their feelings on this, I respect you.  We all have the right to believe what we want, but do understand that when you push your views others have just as much right to push back.  Please people,  if you want to be heard listen first.
 
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January 13, 2009, 11:41 am PST

About the brain

I appreciate the Dr. Phil show for attempting to get both sides together to discuss this HOT TOPIC! Whatever you believe, I have a comment about Dr. Seigel. It concerns me that he and his colleagues are encouraging these hurting and confused families to start hormone treatments for the confused children so young. The brain is not developed in children until they are older. He himself clarified that the jury is still out on the "science" of everything (I forget his exact comment about it), so why would any doctor or therapist encourage such a drastic solution at such a young age when science is not even 100% that a person is "born that way".

 

When dealing with our children, I would think the ethical route would be to wait to make long-term changes, no matter what you personally believe about the subject. We barely let our 16 year old sons drive, and some states are even re-considering changing the age until 18 to drive!! The car insurance people mention in some of their ads that a 16 year old's brain is not fully developed yet and lacks proper judgement and decision-making skills. Why would we allow them to decide to change their gender without serious, serious long-term research and soul-searching?? A decision like that should be reserved for AFTER they mature physically and emotionally. We would all go crazy if our 12-16 year olds announced to us that they just got married . We ALL know they lack the proper emotional and physical maturity--right?? I'm confused why a doctor that writes books about the brain would not mention this very important aspect of the children's development!! 

 

Any of us with pre-teens and teens know that this is the absolute WORST time in their lives for decision-making! I'm concerned that when these children grow up, they will charge these well-meaning doctors like Dr. Seigel with medical negligence. As Dr. Seigel also admitted, the entire family seems to have worse problems when the child changes gender at such a young age. It seems to make an already confusing and painful situation even worse.  I feel for these parents, but the one parent on Dr. Phil was not open-minded and that concerned me. When dealing with our children, we need to take time and get all the advice we can gather instead of just trying to "fix" the problem quickly.(I'm a parent to five kids...I KNOW how hard that can be!) I feel the caring and well-meaning Dr. Siegel enables these families in their lack of patience, even making the situation worse. Any thoughts??

 
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January 13, 2009, 12:19 pm PST

they're not confused

these kids arent confused. Tony hasent lost a son or gained a duagter, she still has her child and she should be happy to have him.  the kids who are "comfused" arent comfused they're not greedy they're not asking for attention they just want to be what they feel. just let  them be the'yre selves.
 
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January 13, 2009, 12:23 pm PST

we need to be careful

I am a feeling very upset that there are people out there who believe that we really can judge anyone especially children.the children that are confused I do believe need more support and love than even those who know what they are. I just hope people who have to deal with this kind of thing will be blessed with some understanding and compassion with the children who are in this situation. I do believe that i would surly love my children and support them no matter what. i know it would be a struggle but i know that i could survive and help my children at least fit into my family because i  see how others would treat them.
LIsa
 
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January 13, 2009, 12:26 pm PST

what is wrong with the world today

Look i am for the first time sitting here watching this Dr. phil show and i must say,,, what is up with people in the world... Is it that huge of a deal if your child wants to be a boy or a girl... I love my kids and regardless what ever they decide i will love them... How can people feel likethey lost thier child... come on now they are still here today...you should be happy to be able to hold them and love them unlike many who have lost thier child.. they would love to have it this way then not to have them.. My girl who actually are genitically males where born with a genitic disorder.. Its called Anfrogen insensity syndrom (AIS) and  when they where born they said chose a name that is for a male and  female... Well ya know what  i decided when we found out everything that i would raise them as girls,,, and what they decide in life i will love them no matter,,, i have a sister that has the same problom and she is all female acting and looking.. I mean i guess when you are one raising a child or two with a actual child that is transgender i have learned to accept everything... i don't judge gays and i don't judge people who are or want to be different... And this doc on here that says it's all what the parents embrace then tell me what i should do... cause i have been raising them as girls but let me tell you they are tomboys and i don't care,,, i love them for them.. i love them and god made them this way and he makes no mistakes... so please those parents out thier feel lucky to have your child and have them there to love and hold.. cause god gave them to you regardless what sex they want to be or if they want to be gay ... god makes no acc... so they will be what he wants them to be.... I feel people look to much at the bs side of crap and not the omg i am blessed to even have this child let alone feel like i lost him or her cause they feel transgender....

this is my oppion on this subject and i am allow to voice it.. you may not agree with me but until you live in our situation no one can judge us...

 

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January 13, 2009, 12:29 pm PST

10/29 Gender Confused Children

what does this have to do with helping anybody but the person on the stage, God made him in one way and not the other. THAT IS THE WAY IT IS!!!
 
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