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Topic : 12/30 Extreme Discipline?

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Created on : Friday, October 24, 2008, 02:58:01 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 10/31/08) Grounding for two months, withholding dinner, making a child stand at attention for hours or collect rocks in the hot sun … is this basic discipline, or is it too extreme? Trisha fears her husband, Rafael, is destroying their 13-year-old daughter with punishments that are too severe. Rafael says his wife forces him to be “the hammer” because she’s too lenient. Their opposing views on child discipline are putting a strain on their marriage, but what is it doing to their daughter? Hear her heartbreaking diary entries. Plus, what happened in this household that’s been swept under the carpet for far too long? Dr. Phil has a heart-to-heart chat with the teen. Have you ever wondered if your discipline tactics will have a lifelong effect on your child? Are you inadvertently crossing the line into abuse? Grade your own parenting skills with today’s show. Plus, learn discipline guidelines that will keep your children healthy and thriving. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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December 30, 2008, 3:41 pm PST

What's Wrong with Mom?? So Apathetic??

Mom - you SHOULD have taken that girl to a therapist IMMEDIATELY when she told you that she had been raped - what the heck is wrong with you?

 

Mom seems much more afraid of giving up the 'generous' provisions of her husband and the cost of that is the well-being of at least one if not all of her children.  For shame mom, for shame.

 

Dad, you know you are wrong - there may be way too much wrong with your wife and she's certainly not much of a mom to be honest as she's not really taking care of  her kids so much as making sure you continue to be 'generous' and she's either doped up or emotionally withdrawn and apathetic - but Dad, come on -- you know that this 'over-correction' by you is simply wrong. How on earth do you expect a daughter to come to you for emotionally help and support from a guy who thinks so little of her??  You aren't raising a daughter to go out and be successful - you are raising a very hurt fearful, fear-filled desperate girl.  Your wife is teaching her to acquise to the pain, to the humiliation and anger and fear she feels cause mom doesn't want to lose your 'generosity'.

 

Mom, what the heck is wrong with you that you expected the school to take care of your daughter after being raped by a family friend - that was and is YOUR responsibility - get off your duff and take care of your daughter by getting her some professional help - yes even if it means  twice a week you have to drive her to therapy sessions --- and when you do drive her do it without complaining or asking for her thanks or appreciation that you finally got her some badly needed help.  You didn't need your husband to go and find therapy for your daughter - you could and should have done that yourself and immediately.  Children who are sexually abused are very damaged and you are just both going to have to put her first for as long as it takes for her to get back on the right track.

 
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December 30, 2008, 3:42 pm PST

what seems more likely

Quote From: barney0968

what is going to happen to this country as the children take it over?  For all those bleeding hearts out there in America please think where this country is going by allowing a child to control his or her parents. That is what is slowly happening.  There is no justice for parents, what a child say goes.

 In this incident there was two seperate situations in this topic -  the  alleged sexual abuse of the daughter and the father;s discipline practice. This country was built on the family and the children listening to the parents. the father in this topic gave his daughter a choice on sitting on the couch or doing what he wanted - it was her choice to stay there and miss supper. but, maybe we should really be looking behind the scene could it be that the daughter is stubborn towards the father in some type of sub-conscience way because of the sexual abuse. Parent are open to neglect and abuse charges at every turn, so much that America gave Child Protective Services the same immunity as the District Attorneys.( they can use innuendos,fragments of statements, and push a child into making a statement that he is afraid or cried

to make a case. This is getting to be big business.  We need to make our child respondible for their actions, .

One sugestion: that there's a Freudian slip in this message: It's the dad who has the "sub-conscience way" involved. Perhaps, or, more likely, on his conscious level, he does not mean to be cruel. But his conscience has failed him.

 

The choices he offered this child offered no choice. She could stay on the couch -- or what? Move out, and live on the streets? At 13? If that's your idea of raising a child, please don't have one. In this day and time, people can have full lives without having children they don't want to nurture.

 

 Yes, children can be and often are, stubborn, irritatng and difficult. But you probably were, too, and I hope your parents did not subject you to such drastic measures. If they did, that may help explain why your vision is what it is. And I beg you to get help to find kinder ways to raise any children who may be in your care. There really are better ways to find reconciliation of differences..

 

 

 
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December 30, 2008, 3:50 pm PST

Extreme Discipline?!

  This story could have been about my life.  Growing up with an abusive mother and being sexually molested; I truly feel for this young girl.  I heard my own words spoken back to me as Dr. Phil read her diary pages.  I am glad for what seems to be her faith in God and pray for her safety and deliverence.  God will turn all of this for good in His time and His way.  Several years ago, I had to turn my own cousins in for abuse.  If I had not had the abuse in my past I don't think (even with all my medical training) that I would have recognized what I saw in those children's eyes and later in their behaviors.  When my personal help was eventually pushed away I knew what I had to do and again because of my past I did what had to be done--I cannot stand by and allow someone else to be abused.  I pray this father and mother take the help offerred by Dr Phil and change their ways.  I pray this child uses that phone number if nothing changes or things get worse.  I pray for overall healing within this family which I fully believe can happen.  Thanks for this opportunity to share my thoughts.  FL Abuse Hotline  1-800-962-2873 (voice) / 1-800-453-5145 (TTY)

 
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December 30, 2008, 3:52 pm PST

Not cold

Quote From: mckoehn

Dad obviously has some emotional problems.  He left me cold, and frankly, I think he needs a lot of therapy to overcome his problems.  He talks about how he was raised with some bitterness, but seems all to happy to pass that cold, non-loving, abusive way he was raised ON to his own children.  How emtionally backwards is that? 

 

And Mom, what a ton of denial going on in that head.  She doesn't want to leave her husband, so she rationalizes his abusive behaior in order to live her safe life.  She is equally to blame for the problems, and I find her equally repulsive.

The papa does not leave me cold, at all. I just think he needs some help to learn how to be a better parent. I have no patience with his treatment of the older daughter -- but  I do not think he understands his role in making her probems, nor how to help her get through the earlier disasters she has experienced.

 

Mama also has made some grievous errors -- who among us has not? But the whole family, including younger ones, neds some help from therapists and counselors, methinks. That anyone wouldn't recognize that sexual abuse of child isa reason for medical and emotional care just amazes me, in this day and time.

 

 

 
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December 30, 2008, 3:59 pm PST

Scared

I remember going through a lot with my dad from when I was 12 until about 15.  He would yell at me and degrade me while he was beating me.  It is 20 years later and I still don't know why I was treated so harshly.  At the time I remember asking over and over what I had done, but that only made it worse.  I was too afraid to tell anyone.  I am still scared of my dad at 35.  I also happen to be living with my parents right now because I got injured at work and didn't get paid for a year at one point.  That is a whole other story, but it's been hard.  Then about 19 months ago I went into complete liver and kidney failure.  My liver is better, but my kidneys work at about 30%.  That is a great improvement from 0% and dialysis, but I still get tired so easily and I am unable to work.  Sometimes my dad still yells at me.  He doesn't hit me anymore, but there have been several times when I thought he was going to and he raised his fist at me.  I feel worthless because of my injury and my health, and then he says things like I am defective and stuff like that.  I don't have anywhere else to go or else I would move.  I am afraid to live alone because of my health, and I dont know anyone that could be a roommate.  I feel trapped.  I don't really want to move, but I don't want to live in fear either.  I am very scared.
 
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December 30, 2008, 4:00 pm PST

12/30 Extreme Discipline?

on watching your show today. december 30th. i really felt sorry for the 13 yr old. i know that it's wrong to judge someone on doing something when you don't have the evedence especially when your talking about a 13 yr old being raped.  why can't the authorities jump in and take the 13 yr old out. i can't help but think that father did touch her daughter in a wrong manner. i just hope and pray she get's the help and council she needs.

 
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December 30, 2008, 4:26 pm PST

This makes me angry

This makes me so angry that everyone is so against Rafael and that he is being made to feel that his punishments are "too extreme."  Rafael - YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR YOUR DAUGHTER! 

I was EXACTLY like Rafael and Trisha's 13-year-old daughter, and my father was exactly like Rafael.  Her story mirrors mine almost exactly.  I can't even count how many times I was sent to bed without dinner.  How many times I was called stupid, fat, etc.  How many times I had to go out in our front yard in the summer to pick every dandelion out, and then get pulled around the yard by my hair to every dandelion I missed.  How many times I was grounded for A-'s (in honors classes)!  I even got a B+ in gym one time and was grounded for a month.  I have been hit, slapped, have had things thrown at me by my father, etc.
He also always said of my mother, that she "let us kids walk all over her."

And hearing their daughter's words and thoughts brings back all of the feelings I remember having at the time as well.  I hated myself, I hated my father, I wished I was dead, etc.  I also was the oldest of 3 (I have 2 younger brothers), and he always seemed to be hardest on me.

However, looking back now that I am 30, my father did absolutely everything right.  In the end, he raised a very straight, honorable, honest, and intelligent daughter.  That is what it is all about.  After witnessing how I (and my brothers) have turned out, I I have learned that parenting through fear WORKS.  I graduated with straight A's from high school, and with straight A's magna cum laude from a very prestigious university.  I was always on honor roll, and was well-rounded, very involved with sports and music.  I have NEVER even tried drugs, smoking, or alcohol.  I never slept around or even had pre-marital sex.  Now I have a great job and own a house with my loving husband. 

Rafael - keep it up.  Even though your daughter may not realize it now, you are doing the best thing for her.  I wish I could take back the feelings of hatred I had for my father when I was Rafael's daughter's age.  I just wasn't old enough to realize at the time that he was doing the absolute right thing to raise a great daughter.  If your child is terrified of you, you are probably raising a great kid.  Unless you want your kid getting terrible grades, drinking, smoking, on drugs, and sleeping around, discipline and fear are key.  I only wish all parents understood what Rafael and my father did.
 
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December 30, 2008, 4:45 pm PST

12/30 Extreme Discipline?

i've been where she has been except with my mom. i'm 22 now. not a day that goes by that i still don't think about the physical and emotional abuse. there wasn't a day that i didn't ask God to take me now...take me away from this pain that i endure every single day. i still live at home....doesn't mean that i haven't left home. my ex got me out of my home life...i bounce around his family's homes...then back to mom. i think for once a few weeks ago that i'm going on prozac i saw a concerned look....sure there has been other things in life that has gotten me down especially these past 6months....but my depression all boils down to...my mom's treatment of me. and she watched the show....tears in her eyes....i think she understands a little more that she has hurt me.
 
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December 30, 2008, 4:51 pm PST

Cold father and mother

These parents are both abusers.  I was shocked to see the look on their faces during the show.  The father looked arrogant and the mother just kept looking at her husband when asked for a response.  I'm so sorry for their daughter.  I thought maybe she might be taken away from the parents.  They didn't show emotion when their daughter talked about her possible suicide.  I'm not sure but these people don't look like they are

I was emotionally, physically, and sexually abused from the time I was about two until 17 from BOTH MY PARENTS!  If anyone even imagined this was going on nothing was done about it.  I realize that many years ago  abuse was hidden more than it is today.  I disociated all the abuse and didn't get help until I was 55 years old.  I found a Christian therapist and spent a long time in therapy to be the healthy woman I am today.  Yes, I was physically hurt, too much to describe.  The sexual abuse went on for years.  I eventually met a man who I married and made me feel protected and secure.  I pray that this girl can get help, even if she has to leave her home and live with someone who will love her unconditionally.  Her parents don't seem well emotionally.

 
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December 30, 2008, 5:10 pm PST

Parents Should be ashamed

Not only is this dad guilty of abuse but the mom is just as guilty for not taking steps to do something about it.  I am appaulled that they did nothing when she told them she was raped.  It should have been reported to the authorities right away and she should have had counseling.  When our daughter was in her teens (she is now 26) and told us of something similar happening to her we called the police and she also received counseling.  She knew we were there for her and if she needed to talk it out she could tell us freely.  If this child doesn't get the help she needs now she will be forever scared by what has and what is happening to her.  I aplaude you Dr. Phil and the experts you had on your show for helping this family get the help they need to nip this in the bud.
 
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