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Topic : 07/03 School Discipline: Out of Control?

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Created on : Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 07:29:46 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 12/05/08) When you send your children to school, you expect them to be taught in a nurturing environment. But what should you do if you learn your child has experienced extreme discipline by those entrusted to teach him or her? Eva and Doug's autistic daughter, Isabel, was 8 years old when her teachers claimed her behavior became too difficult to handle, so they sent her to the time-out room. Cameras captured Isabel's time spent in isolation, which her parents say lasted for over three hours. Her parents say they had worked with the teachers regarding disciplining Isabel and were panicked and horrified when they saw the footage. Next, Martha says her 12-year-old daughter was in a classroom when $42 went missing. In an effort to find the money, a group of girls were strip-searched. You won't believe who reportedly ordered the investigation. Martha says her daughter is devastated and will never be the same. Then, when 5-year-old Gabriel constantly complained that his teacher was mean and yelled at him, his mom, Tabitha, sent him to school with a tape recorder in his pocket. Hear the audio recordings and find out the shocking information Tabitha discovered. Psychologist Ken Merrell, special education teacher Kathy Riley and civil litigation attorney Areva Martin weigh in on these cases. And, after years of being relentlessly bullied by fellow students, Jeremiah brought the torment to a tragic end. His father, Jeff, joins Dr. Phil and Jay McGraw to speak for the first time on television. Plus, if you're a teen and want to talk about what's happening at your school, join the Teen Talk message boards.

Find out what happened on the show.

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December 5, 2008, 8:07 pm PST

Thank you

Quote From: goodteacher

As a special education teacher in Monroe Michigan, I am appalled that a school would allow strip searches.  Since when is it okay for ANYONE to tell a child to remove their clothes without parental knowledge or permission?  I don't know if Martha's daughter was found to be guilty of stealing the money, but I do know a police officer wouldn't subject a child to that for $42.  If she was responsible, then yes, there should have been discipline; but a strip search?  NO WAY!  If anyone else had told a child to take of his or her clothes, wouldn't someone be filing sexual charges or molestation?  The school in question seems to have taken on the power of God to whom they serve. 

 

As for special needs children being locked away, I feel that is SOOOO wrong on so many levels.  Did these special education teachers miss the lesson during college that sometimes the best way to change a behavior is to engage the child in a new task?  Did they miss the part about the child needing special services?  I can't imagine a general education child would have been put through that as they are able to vocalize their concerns and tell people.  If there was a camera in the "time out room", isn't someone supposed to monitor this?  I am ashamed that a special education teacher would not take a time herself seeing as she was out of control!

Thank God there are teachers like you.  People like you give the rest of us hope.
 
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December 5, 2008, 8:14 pm PST

Been on both sides.. what a roller coaster!

Oh my goodness, this show SO underlines the experiences my special needs son went through.  Thank goodness I was able to move him to a school (surprisingly, in the same district) that provides all of the appropriate supports, rather than the humiliating and blaming environment I kept him in for 2+ years.  I wish I had thought to send a tape recorder with my son!

 

In my son's case, the school culture set by the principal (i.e. leadership traits& values) is what made the difference in his success vs. failure.  By failure, I refer to overall mental health... he was suicidal in 4th grade.  That school identified his problems with ADHD in 2nd grade & he was subsequently diagnosed with Tourette's syndrome in 3rd grade.  Yet after the problem was identified, they refused to admit that this was an academic issue, nor would they provide any services related to the diagnosis and learning problems. ("We don't see a problem." was the principal's statement.)  Ultimately, the principal wrote that they saw no issues and I 'needed' my son to have a problem.  (Do any parents of special needs children ask for this challenge?  No, we simply work towards acceptance and try to help our children.)

 

Luckily, the school district supported my request to move him to another school.  Talk about culture shock!  I entered the new school somewhat skeptical and defensive as to how they would work with my son's issues (and me, knowing that the previous school had identified me as the primary problem!)  Now I must sing the praises of the 2nd school...  they have restored my faith in how a school can 'do-it-right'.  The principal set the stage for a culture of mutual respect and holds all parties accountable (staff, faculty, students and parents).  With the basic belief system & expectations communicated to all parties from the outset, everyone feels comfortable and safe in voicing their concerns.  Those responding are always respectful of the other person's position... at least in my experience!)

 

Here is the difference in my son's personal experience: 

(Student: DM; 1st school: CC; 2nd school: WF)

DM in 4th grade at CC:  Progression of psychosomatic illnesses and exacerbation of Tourette's symptoms; expressions of distress related to teacher's behaviors and the classroom enviroment.  Expressions of suicidal desires and declining grades. Principal refused to change his classroom. 

Subsequent meeting with 'Student-Study / 504 accommodation team who refused to acknowledge any problem.

DM in 4th grade at WF: expression of suicidal ideation (via pictures/writings... denied verbally) in 5th grade @ WF:  Teachers, nurse and counselor worked with me to support his needs.  By springtime, I requested an IEP and they accepted request without argument (compared to previous school).  By 6th grade, with supportive mechanisms in place, his academic performance continues to be up and down, but I am immensely grateful that his self-esteem remains intact.  The challenges now seem to be in-line with his disorder, without being complicated by the bullying of the teacher / school admin!  That being said, he gets bullied and he now has been bully-ing other peers. The difference is that the school addresses the problem and my son can manage / cope with these challenges that do face our children in their daily lives. 

 

Has my son been disruptive?  Yes!  Any more so than other children? - No (He generally retreats rather than acting out.)   My lesson? (no political statement intended):  It does take a village to raise a child (in these times!!) 

Can we not all learn a lesson from the progress in the medical, educational and behavioral sciences?  And should we hold our educators accountible to these standards?  In my case, I chose not to report to the Board of Education because it was too much time & energy when all I wanted was some relief for my sick child.  I only have enough energy to address my own child's challenges and cannot work to hold the responsible parties accountable.  It takes a power larger than myself to change the educational system!

 

 
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December 5, 2008, 8:15 pm PST

True Believer

Quote From: shetypes

In the 60's I watched swearing, throwing objects and cigaretes, rolled pot and sleeping often in school.  I smelled teaches of alcohol, knew of teachers flirting with girls, girls sitting in front legs apart to get good grades, it was not all that good as so many want to think it was.  Fighting went on daily, rarely was it stopped, controlled or monitored. I am no fool, I always believed my children, until they proved me wrong.  No adult was going to come before my child.  That so many did not believe a child is why so many abusers got away with doing harm to those who now adults won't believe them adults and do not want you touching our children.

 The Schools do and can have alternate education for the disruptive and those who cannot behave in normal classrooms.  If the teachers do thier job and show that is needed, it can accomplish much.

There should be no reason to fear a law suit, we have legal systems, police to call and courts.

If no one takes the law into thier own hands, anothers childs rearing as thier place, they won't have to fear it?  Class rooms have been out of control since the mid 60's steady increases has not caused the changes needed.

Teachers are not babysiters, replacements for parents nor police or social workers, they are educators.

    I am happy to here someone else say some of the things that I have said so many times before. All parents should believe their children, especially the young ones. No one should come before your child. My child has told me the truth even if it meant he would be in trouble himself. It has to do with how we raise our own children!!

 
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December 5, 2008, 8:36 pm PST

OK???

Quote From: trayninja

After watching this show today I was extremely angry!!!

ALL you seemed to care about was how the teachers were treating the students!

BUT WHAT ABOUT HOW THE KIDS TREAT THE TEACHERS!!! We take SOOOO much crap for it's it's not even funny!!! Days and days would go by when I'd come home in tears or even have to leave the room becasue of how these children act! The parents shouldn't be mad at the teachers, they should RAISE BETTER CHILDREN!!!

I agree teaching has changed... and children need to be raised better... but having a teacher abuse his/her students as punishment is WRONG.... THE TEACHER IS A GROWN UP!
 
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December 5, 2008, 8:42 pm PST

Frustrating!

As a 2nd grade teacher, it's so frustrating to watch and witness what other teachers are doing in their classrooms!  I can admit, teaching is very difficult and it takes a LOT of patience.  It is my goal to make the environment in my classroom comfortable for a student to learn effectively.  A student WILL NOT learn in an envirnoment in which he or she does not feel safe.  The BEST way to get students to behave in a manner in which you desire, is to PRAISE students acting the way expected.  That praise will motivate the student who is acting inappropriately to change their OWN behavior to get your attention.  Let's face it, children are VERY" SIMILAR to adults.  Let's think about it, what do we do to motivate adult employees in the sales business?  Companies provide INCENTIVES.  Do we call these "incentives" BRIBES? NO! I worked for a fortune 500 company which motivated its employees by offering bonuses, commision increases, private dinners, special recognitions, awards, and even paid vacation packages simply to reward employees for behaviors that the company EXPECTED.  When we look at children, most adults expect them to "do what they are supposed to do" without any rewards.  Don't you work more proficently when you have a goal or reward within grasp? Why would a child be any different?  Too many teachers want to just SIMPLY teach curriculum.  What people need to realize is that teaching is not just teaching curriculum.  In fact, I believe teaching is 90% classroom management.  You CANNOT effectively teach if you do not have effective classroom manangement and expectations set up in your classroom.  For every negative comment you give a child, you just give 5 praises to that same child.  It's so frustrating to know there are teachers out there who treat their students this way!  My goal as a teacher is to create a safe and inviting learning environment in which students are WILLING to make predictions and guesses and feel like they won't be critcized if they are "wrong."  Students are responsible for their own behaviors, and if you put the responsibility back on the student and make THEM tell you if they are making a good decision, your students will learn more, and you will have less work as a teacher.

 
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December 5, 2008, 8:54 pm PST

I'm sorry you had to go through this

Quote From: connorsmommy

This also happened to my son who is Diagnosed with Autism and had very little communicaton skills and was only 5 at the time.  I  found out he was secluded sometimes 6 times a day with nearly 90 seclusion in just the first 10 weeks of school in a wooden closet that looked like an outhouse,. (hard walls, no seperate lighting, nothing.....only a peep hole fot the staff to see in.  All this happened without my knowledge and nearly ruined my family.  This is an outrage.  If  I did this at home my son would be removed from my custody.....things need to change now.   I know that if I didn't recue my son he would be in an institution by now.  The sad part is it been nearly 4 years and now I know of another family having devistating effects from the same classroom and are in the middle of due process and have spent tens if not hundred of thousands of dollars and thier son is only in the 1st grade. This is more common that some might think.  This district needs to be stopped.

 

To 'Connorsmom' and all other families that have gone through the fear, uncertainty and anxiety of having your child mistreated at school, I really feel for you since I'm Isabel's dad.  I wouldn't wish what happened to us or others like us on anyone in the world.  I appreciate your story about finding out that this is happening to other families.  After we learned about what was happening to our daughter and started t speaking to other parents we learned that other parents had had similar experiences.  Many of them had not fought this but had simply moved.  This was the right thing for them to do.  For us,  we decided the right thing for us was to do was to get to the bottom of this.   We fought to clear our daughter Isabel's name and keep this from happening to other families.  If it hadn't been for the tape we would have continued to believe that Isabel was the problem, not the school. 

 

Its nice in a sense that this topic is getting so much debate.  It really reveals the fears that many parents have that their child's education will be disrupted by 'special needs' kids.  I understand that.  My younger daughter is not handicapped and I have no desire to disrupt or hurt her education.  But it is an interesting fact that despite all of the pain that my younger daughter has suffered  along us, I am convinced that she is a better child and will be a better adult because of the relationship she has with her 'special' sister and the lessons she has learned from it.

 

I would like to 'set the record straight' in a couple of aspects that make most of the comments pretty far off base.

 

1.  Isabel was successfully educated in Colorado for four years-- no physical restraints, no seclusion, no severe problems.  She spent the vast majority of her day in general education classes and was thriving.

 

2.  When we moved to Iowa the school had a very different schedule, she was only with regular kids for lunch, PE, specials, and a bit in the morning.  Whenever she was in the regular education classes she had an aide.  She wasn't a burden to the general education teacher.  Almost all of her education was ONLY with other handicapped kids.  A FEDERAL COURT HAS RULED THAT THIS CHANGE IN PLACEMENT WAS ILLEGAL; THE SCHOOL'S DEFINITION OF 'INCLUSION' WAS SO OUTDATED THAT IT VIOLATED IOWA AND FEDERAL EDUCATION LAWS.

 

3.  Without our knowledge and contrary to Isabel's educational plan, the school started using physical restraint from SEVERAL STAFF MEMBERS to hold Isabel while she was coloring worksheets.  This wasn't an education, it was a punishment for huge crimes like "Refusing to take a break".  These episodes of restraint lasted on and off for over 1 hour on several occasions.

 

4.  When the timeout video was filmed, the timeout room ACTUALLY WAS ISABEL'S CLASSROOM. When the desk was there she would do her work.  If she refused a command they would take out the desk and she was in timeout.  There were several different tasks she had to do to be let out of timeout.  Non-handicapped children did not have to do these tasks.  She had to sit perfectly still on the floor for 5 minutes CONTINUOUSLY.  Even moving a hand or making a face made them reset the timer.  She then had to pull apart socks. She then had to finish work there.

 

5.  Before this video, the school had physically taken Isabel to the same room for similar timeouts, even though timeout was not in her plan at that time.  She had the same 5 minute sit perfectly still demand.  She wet herself almost immediately each time.  She slipped in her own urine, asked to change her clothes since her shirt was wet, but was told, "No, your job is to finish timeout."

 

6.  The school staff were trained in a very good program (Mandt System) to train them to avoid the need for restraint and to do 'safe' restraints only if necessary.  We were told in writing that the school was using this.  The CEO of the Mandt Training company told me that NOTHING that the school did was actually supported by his company's training.  Literally not a single thing.

 

7. As we were trying to figure out what was going on we took Isabel to not one or two but three full evaluations at the best hospital in Iowa. 

 

8.  An administrative law judge ruled that Isabel's education plan was illegal and wasn't even followed.  A FEDERAL COURT UPHELD THIS RULING AND THE SCHOOL HAS NOT APPEALED. The school did not give Isabel a legally appropriate education.

 

9.  My wife had to homeschool Isabel for 1 1/2 years as we tried to rehabilitate her.  She was diagnosed with PTSD and would initially become violent almost anytime we tried to get her to do something that looked like education.

 

10.  We successfully reintegrated Isabel in a California school last year.  She is now in her second year of school here.  Believe it or not, NOT A SINGLE MOMENT OF PHYSICAL RESRAINT OR SECLUSION. 

 

You figure it out.  Four successful years in Colorado.  Two successful years in California.  Two years of hell in Iowa. 

 

What all of us can do is to support education and our educators.  Congress has given them more responsibilities but hasn't provided the money to fund it.  I'm sure schools 'lose money' educating Isabel.  That isn't fair to other kids. 

 

If you want to learn more about the dangers of resraint in schools I urge you to check out the APRAIS website.  It gives you some information about the dangers of restraints, discusses positive alternatives, and provides resources to parents who are concerned about what may be happening to their child.

 

www.aprais.tash.org

 

If your child has an educational plan (IEP) and you have questions or concerns about this and/or are looking for someone to advocate for you, you might try the website www.copaa.org  This is the Council of Parent Advocates and Attornies and it focuses on special ed issues. 

 

If the publicity from the Dr. Phil Show helps only one other child in the country it will be worth it. 

 

Thanks,

 

Doug Loeffler

 

 

 

 

 

 
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December 5, 2008, 9:01 pm PST

What about the teachers?

Let me begin by saying my heart goes out to those children who have been placed in these extreme situations. I would never do that to a child. As a teacher, the discipline situations in the classrooms have gotten out of hand. Children disrespect us everyday and we have to more or less take it. Teachers are cursed out, yelled at, and even punched for trying to offer a child an education. I will speak for myself, I am a teacher because I want to make a difference in this world, but what are we really teaching these children when they have no consequences for their actions?

 

 
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December 5, 2008, 9:08 pm PST

12/05 School Discipline: Out of Control?

seriously can you imagine having a class of 25 kids 2 have adhd, 1 is gifted, a few have never been taught how to act, there are 3 that speak 3 differant languages and then you have the one the is austic. this 1 "lead" teacher as a differant IEP for 7 differant kids need to challenge the gifted while making sure the slowest is also getting individual attention, needs to give each ESOL student a differant individual assement  according to their level of english speaking. all these children are thrown into a class and the ones who suffer are the children with no "special" diagnosis. and i understand that kids ave a right to an education but an austic kid learns differant from normal kids so doesnt that mean that they should be in a special classroom with someone thats gonna teach them special.

 
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December 5, 2008, 9:11 pm PST

12/05 School Discipline: Out of Control?

Parents need to actually parent and discipline their kids and teachers need to actually teach instead of just handing out busy work and expecting the kids to teach themselves.
 
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December 5, 2008, 9:16 pm PST

This is why I homeschool!

Quote From: skenski

I have taught for over 8 years in an inner city school district located in the mid-west. Although I have heard stories  and seen news reports even locally similar to this show's examples, I have never experienced anything like that in the two schools I have taught at. What I have experienced is so out of control children and such little support from the district or parents I find it very difficult to teach the curriculum outlined by the district and the state. Currently I have 24 students and 3 of them are on specific behavior plans. These plans include tracking sheets that I must stay on top of and record each student's behavior sometimes as often as every 20 minutes! I must also reward behavior that simply complies to school and classroom standards sometimes as often as three times a day. Each student's behavior must be logged daily to document successess and failures. Each student has an agenda and behavior tracking sheets that must be completed with detailed descripitons of behavior for parents to read, sign and have returned daily. I am required to meet monthly with the parents and the team which help to set up these behavior plans. Now on top of this...I have 21 other children I am trying to teach, assess, grade papers, file, complete lesson plans, tutor, prepare for formal observations, and keep up parent contacts with. I do all this with no additional help. We have no aids or PARA's. I work from 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, come in and work work for 5 hours every Saturday, and of course take work home with me every night. Yes, some teacher's and schools are NOT doing what is right by our children. Sometimes that is through poor disciplanary procedures, but most often its because of too much paperwork and too little time actually caring and teaching the children we are given the responsiblility to teach each year.
I am totally sympathetic with the hard job that school teachers have. It is a well known fact that all neurological disorders are on the rise (AS, ADD/ADHD and so on) and it is increasingly common that public school classrooms can have as much as one third special needs. No doubt that teachers are overwhelmed which is why we homeschool our special needs son. Our son was in the special needs preschool run by the district and on a IEP and we were told "off the record" that if we had any resources what so ever to NOT enroll our child in public because as the head of the school disctrict informed us - they knew they couldn't met the needs of these students. Other than preschool our son has never been in public school but at the age of 9 reads at a 6th grade level, math at a 4.5 level in fact when we last tested him his lowest score was spelling which I don't even teach and that was a whole grade level above what he would be in public school. I can testisfy that school discipline is most definately out of control. When our son was in the school runned preschool we were told that they regularly tie the children into the chairs. I asked what does the child do - their response: "They eventually stop struggling." Disgusting that they think its okay to tie special needs 3 and 4 year olds into chairs and consider that good education. My husband hear on almost a weekly basis of special needs children that are molested, bullied and assault and we look at each other and say,"Thank God we homeschool."
Ada
Homeschool Mom for the last 4 years
 
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