Message Boards

Topic : 08/02 Brainwashed Brides

Number of Replies: 85
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Thursday, July 28, 2005, 03:30:32 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original air date 05/03/05) Imagine growing up in a family with 56 siblings and a father who keeps dozens of wives. It's happening in an unusual religious sect in Arizona and Utah, where girls as young as 14 are forced to marry men three times their age and have as many children as possible. Meet two teens who escaped this world of polygamy and alleged abuse a year ago. Fearing that they'll be damned to hell for running away, they're even considering going back. Can Dr. Phil help them leave their past behind? Talk about the show here.

 

Find out what happened on the show.

 

Read previous messages in the archived discussion.


As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

August 4, 2005, 6:20 am CDT

08/02 Brainwashed Brides

Quote From: senoni

how could you grow up in the mormon church and have such a little understanding about Joseph smith and the man he was.  And how could you also know so little about what really happened in the early days of the church and why polygamy was practiced.  I can tell you turned your back on the church and that is really sad.  I hope and pray that you will be able to remember the truth you were hopefully taught about the church.  I feel really bad for you.  There were divine purposes for polygamy in the early days of the church, there were more women than men joining the church and they needed someone to take care of them.  And if you did grow up Mormon you would also understand the Temple and the sacredness of certain principles.  As humans we do not understand why things happen But if you think with your spirit you can see that as soon as polygamy was no longer needed to help support those women who didnt have help, it was abolished.  Anyways I am sure that this wont change your opinion, I just wanted to say that if you turned your back on the church because of a bad experience I hope you can seperate that from the gospel, which is true and you should know that deep down.  I will not judge you but your words against the church will be remebered by the Lord when Judgement day comes. 
Main stream Mormons are not really taught much about the real past of Joseph Smith, I have spent the past few years reading every document I could find on the subject to find the truth. you say "There were divine purposes for polygamy in the early days of the church, there were more women than men joining the church and they needed someone to take care of them." Joseph Smith had 33 documented wives, and 8 more possable wives. I could name all of them if you want, but, 11 of the documented wives were all ready married, there names are, Lucida Pendleton (Morgan Harris), Zina Diantha Huntington (Jacobs), Presendia Lathrop Huntington (Buell), Sylvia Sessions (Lyons), Mary Elizabeth Rollins (Lightner), Patty Bartlett (Sessions), Marinda Nancy Johnson (Hyde), Elizabeth Davis (Goldsmith Brackenbury Durfee), Sarah Kingsley (Howe Cleveland), Ruth Vose (Sayers), Elvira Annie Cowles (Holmes). You also said "But if you think with your spirit you can see that as soon as polygamy was no longer needed to help support those women who didnt have help, it was abolished." I think these women already had help, they also continued to live with there first husbands. check it out these are facts..
 
August 4, 2005, 2:11 pm CDT

08/02 Brainwashed Brides

Quote From: psursa

Main stream Mormons are not really taught much about the real past of Joseph Smith, I have spent the past few years reading every document I could find on the subject to find the truth. you say "There were divine purposes for polygamy in the early days of the church, there were more women than men joining the church and they needed someone to take care of them." Joseph Smith had 33 documented wives, and 8 more possable wives. I could name all of them if you want, but, 11 of the documented wives were all ready married, there names are, Lucida Pendleton (Morgan Harris), Zina Diantha Huntington (Jacobs), Presendia Lathrop Huntington (Buell), Sylvia Sessions (Lyons), Mary Elizabeth Rollins (Lightner), Patty Bartlett (Sessions), Marinda Nancy Johnson (Hyde), Elizabeth Davis (Goldsmith Brackenbury Durfee), Sarah Kingsley (Howe Cleveland), Ruth Vose (Sayers), Elvira Annie Cowles (Holmes). You also said "But if you think with your spirit you can see that as soon as polygamy was no longer needed to help support those women who didnt have help, it was abolished." I think these women already had help, they also continued to live with there first husbands. check it out these are facts..
That isnt true at all -- where do you get your info from?  Anti Mormon Liturature I am sure-- anyways I am done -- i will not defend the church to you -- You will see what the truth is in the end and then you probably will say-- oops!!  I guess I should have left well enough alone and just trusted in the Lord and this wonderful church.  I feel hypocritical bashing with you over facts that you think are true,  So God bless you and your hard heart and i am done talking about this with you. 
 
August 5, 2005, 5:05 am CDT

08/02 Brainwashed Brides

Quote From: senoni

That isnt true at all -- where do you get your info from?  Anti Mormon Liturature I am sure-- anyways I am done -- i will not defend the church to you -- You will see what the truth is in the end and then you probably will say-- oops!!  I guess I should have left well enough alone and just trusted in the Lord and this wonderful church.  I feel hypocritical bashing with you over facts that you think are true,  So God bless you and your hard heart and i am done talking about this with you. 
I know that this makes you angry, it did me also when I first started reading this. No this is not Anit-Mormon liturature, this comes from the Church history. There is more, a lot more, I wont mention anymore to you since it has struck a nerve, seeking the truth is for my own peace of mind, your peace of mine it totally up to you. I feel very comfortable going before the Lord, he knows I follow him and him only, I follow his teachings and his teachings only. I have never been closer to the Lord than I am right now.
 
August 8, 2005, 1:44 pm CDT

cgetch

"I admit that my comment was off topic; however, the posting stated that white people would be happy if they could turn dark just by shaking someone's hand, because then they would save money on tanning products.  What isn't racist about that?" i read this part of your statement what do you think is racist about this .to me when i read that i didn't dee anything racists .i think its a complement by shaking someones hand and turning black ."black is beautiful "and i see nothing wrong with that statement what so ever. Yoou are just grasping at straws ans controversy that aren't there,
 
August 8, 2005, 1:57 pm CDT

demeter

Quote From: demeter

I couldn't help but think just how brave both Fawns are, to have walked away from their families (run actually) and everything they have ever known.  I sat watching the program thinking how it's not that much different "out here."  Women still aren't free out here either.  I pray that they will find help to claim their voices, their bodies and desires, to learn who they are and identify their own needs and be able to move about freely and fearlessly.  I pray it so for all women.

what ERA do you live in ?not this one for sure.we are alot more free then been told to wear or dress a certain way or not to have to stay at home and help raise someone elses kids that your husband has with another woman .i feel women that are taking over high power corporations are better then a woman who is trapped in a world who can only speak to women or people in her own little world.there are alot of successful women look at Oprah Whimprey,how strong she is all she has done for this world.Yes there women thatt aren't free and its cults like this that stops them from being free .Yes there women out inn the congo and are being beating to death or raped but we have that all over the world .but to deny any wrong doing is what is wrong with our soceity and we as a world should be able to step up and help people not just women but babies and men also .I say men not cowards that use women to use to feed their sexual needs or hide behind these women to spread their garbage of what the word of god is .We let this go on thats why this is the way it is.
 
August 9, 2005, 2:24 pm CDT

reply

Quote From: christian8

WOW! I am so sorry for the mess that you have had to deal with. Do you really want to spend eternity in Hell? I, as a believer, don't want you to spend eternity in hell. God is a loving God and he doesn't want anyone to go to hell but it is a punishment for our sin. We are all sinners but if we believe that Jesus Christ died for those sins, that he was buried, and that he rose the third day. I don't know what kind of church your grew up in but someone has not given you a lot of information.
Here is my problem.  I have a hard time believing in the bible.  I try, but it seems like a way to manipulate people.  Every verse I would read, and deap down inside I thought it was a lie, but I would just ignore my gut feelings because I thought if I didn't believe it, I would go to hell.  All I'm saying is that repressing your true feelings is worse than hell.  My true feelings are that the bible is a lie and christianity is a lie.  Along with all other religions.  Now if god comes along and tells me other wise, then I'd be more than happy to accept jesus, but until then, I gotta go with my gut.
 
August 9, 2005, 4:32 pm CDT

Thank You Dr Phil

I want to give Dr Phil a great big hug and THANK YOU!!!  for making sure to clearify that this cult was in no way connected to the Mormons!!  It is sad the this message board is still commenting on this issue, more than about the girls and the cult itself.  I am so proud of Dr Phil for his advice to these young ladies.  I loved what he said about a just and loving God.  I was also happy to hear him let them know, not to replace him as there 'all and knowing male figure'.  THANKS AGAIN
 
August 10, 2005, 12:49 am CDT

Law treats children as property

Quote From: artsydawn

 Why has our society allowed this to continue? How do these people get away with doing this to children? Everything these people are doing is ILLEGAL!! The question was asked on the show, however I dont believe there was a sufficient answer. Where are the police, children services,or our government??

This, along with other forms of child abuse,  is allowed to continue because the government essentially treats children as property and does not give CPS enough power. If you read your own state's laws regarding children, you will be suprised as to how limited their rights are. I am a resident of Florida, and I must say that the state of FL does not do a good job of protecting children against abuse and treats children as property of their parents. I know this from experience. I was abused as a child and I was shuffled through the system. For example, when I was 17, I badly needed medical care for my hand, but my parents would not provide it even though they could financially afford to(they felt I should pay for it), so my doctor called DCF(Department of Children and Families, aka Child Protective Services), because in the state of FL, children cannot receive any medical care without the consent of parents. DCF told me they couldn't do anything because I was 17, even though the state statute makes it clear that they are supposed to protect all children until they are 18 and represent them. Further, medical neglect and other forms of child abuse are felonies. There are state laws dictating that if there is medical neglect, the DA(district attorney) must be notified and charges must be brought against the parents. Did this happen? No. I imagine a fax was sent along with hundreds of other children's cases to the DA, but DCF said they had no real power, and my caseworker said that their job was to "scare parents". She said there was nothing they could do legally, and told me to make a police report, because I was worried about my younger brother. They also did a house visit to make sure my brother was ok, but that is a procedure dictated by state law.

You'll here people say,"CPS just wants to reunite families", but this is not necessarily true. They make is very hard to get children the help they need. If someone calls a hotline to make a child abuse report, a caseworker is sent to the child's home. Unless the child either A. admits to being abused or B. has bruises on his/her face and arms, nothing happens further and the case is dropped. Further, the depth of the investigation is dependent on the individual caseworker. Yes, I believe some of the caseworkers really want to help, but the law limits their power way too much, to that point that DCF/CPS cannot do anything for a child unless that child is in a life or death situation. Plus, it is frightening to know that what happens to a child's future could be influenced by that ONE caseworker having a bad day. As harsh as this seems, it is what truly happens.  Abuse happens every day, in every city, and every neighborhood, and I strongly believe that our society/government just turns away from the abuse the children in our country face.
 
August 10, 2005, 8:04 am CDT

08/02 Brainwashed Brides

Quote From: hollyufpsy

This, along with other forms of child abuse,  is allowed to continue because the government essentially treats children as property and does not give CPS enough power. If you read your own state's laws regarding children, you will be suprised as to how limited their rights are. I am a resident of Florida, and I must say that the state of FL does not do a good job of protecting children against abuse and treats children as property of their parents. I know this from experience. I was abused as a child and I was shuffled through the system. For example, when I was 17, I badly needed medical care for my hand, but my parents would not provide it even though they could financially afford to(they felt I should pay for it), so my doctor called DCF(Department of Children and Families, aka Child Protective Services), because in the state of FL, children cannot receive any medical care without the consent of parents. DCF told me they couldn't do anything because I was 17, even though the state statute makes it clear that they are supposed to protect all children until they are 18 and represent them. Further, medical neglect and other forms of child abuse are felonies. There are state laws dictating that if there is medical neglect, the DA(district attorney) must be notified and charges must be brought against the parents. Did this happen? No. I imagine a fax was sent along with hundreds of other children's cases to the DA, but DCF said they had no real power, and my caseworker said that their job was to "scare parents". She said there was nothing they could do legally, and told me to make a police report, because I was worried about my younger brother. They also did a house visit to make sure my brother was ok, but that is a procedure dictated by state law.

You'll here people say,"CPS just wants to reunite families", but this is not necessarily true. They make is very hard to get children the help they need. If someone calls a hotline to make a child abuse report, a caseworker is sent to the child's home. Unless the child either A. admits to being abused or B. has bruises on his/her face and arms, nothing happens further and the case is dropped. Further, the depth of the investigation is dependent on the individual caseworker. Yes, I believe some of the caseworkers really want to help, but the law limits their power way too much, to that point that DCF/CPS cannot do anything for a child unless that child is in a life or death situation. Plus, it is frightening to know that what happens to a child's future could be influenced by that ONE caseworker having a bad day. As harsh as this seems, it is what truly happens.  Abuse happens every day, in every city, and every neighborhood, and I strongly believe that our society/government just turns away from the abuse the children in our country face.
I am not exactly sure what the laws are but I will testify to the fact that cps is certainly a warped system that needs ALOT of work done on it. They can go after a family who spanks their children or a family that has false accusations against them without an investigation but they can't go after the real abusers such as those in this cult and many other cases around the world. Too many children have fallen through the system because of the lack of committment on cps. and yes, there are good workers in the system just as there are good teachers in the school system but it doesn't mean that the organization does their job effectively. and yes, I was a victim of abuse and the worse of my abuse happened in the home that I was placed in as a child, I spent 10 years of my childhood in this home which the last 5 was hell. The whole abuse was done in secret but there were others that suspected(I know because I overheard conversations) only oncedid some one ask about it and being the shy littel one that I was, I said nothing but the person that asked me, could have caught this person in action if they would have walked up the stairs the night before I was approached. The system also were given hints about this but did absolutely nothing, I remember these things just as if they happened yesterday. I personally would have been better off with my bio family as I was taken away because they were alcoholics but they never once laid a hand on me in any way shape or form. I was a littel neglected but I wasn't starving, I was a littel dirty but I wasn't harmed in the way that I was in the foster home, and this was years ago, I would of thought there would have been some changes by now. Any way, our system definetly needs a lot moe improvement and start going after the real abusers instead of their own little agendas. There are innocent lives at stake here, I think it is about time for some action................
 
August 10, 2005, 9:44 pm CDT

jettav

Quote From: jettav

I am not exactly sure what the laws are but I will testify to the fact that cps is certainly a warped system that needs ALOT of work done on it. They can go after a family who spanks their children or a family that has false accusations against them without an investigation but they can't go after the real abusers such as those in this cult and many other cases around the world. Too many children have fallen through the system because of the lack of committment on cps. and yes, there are good workers in the system just as there are good teachers in the school system but it doesn't mean that the organization does their job effectively. and yes, I was a victim of abuse and the worse of my abuse happened in the home that I was placed in as a child, I spent 10 years of my childhood in this home which the last 5 was hell. The whole abuse was done in secret but there were others that suspected(I know because I overheard conversations) only oncedid some one ask about it and being the shy littel one that I was, I said nothing but the person that asked me, could have caught this person in action if they would have walked up the stairs the night before I was approached. The system also were given hints about this but did absolutely nothing, I remember these things just as if they happened yesterday. I personally would have been better off with my bio family as I was taken away because they were alcoholics but they never once laid a hand on me in any way shape or form. I was a littel neglected but I wasn't starving, I was a littel dirty but I wasn't harmed in the way that I was in the foster home, and this was years ago, I would of thought there would have been some changes by now. Any way, our system definetly needs a lot moe improvement and start going after the real abusers instead of their own little agendas. There are innocent lives at stake here, I think it is about time for some action................
Hi there sweetie,how are you doing ?read your post and am so sorry for what you were put through as a child.And i agree what the heck is wrong with the authorities anyhow?they need to step up here and take control of these men and take them and put them all together on one island to fend for themselves.there just a bunch of pervs all these cults and they all not just the polygamists that say we have all the freedom we want .well is just delutional .where is a babys right to be baptized not to the point that if they are a girl more so the a boy they stick their little heads under water till they cry thats abuse i don't care what others think.And the man now when he was riding on roller blades was taken in and took the blades from him and his father i blieve he said ,just for roller blading with a friend.these sick people should be put away for life .If the authorities would get off their lazt butts.take care.cathy
 
First | Prev | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | Next | Last