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Topic : 01/07 Omaha Mall Shooting: A Mother’s Guilt

Number of Replies: 87
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Created on : Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 05:12:36 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
On December 5, 2007, Robert Hawkins walked into the Von Maur Mall in Omaha, Nebraska carrying an AK-47 rifle and 30 rounds of ammunition. The troubled 19-year-old gunned down eight people and wounded two others before taking his own life in what's been called the deadliest mall shooting in U.S. history. Robert’s mother, Molly, says she can't get over the guilt. Could this massacre have been averted? Did the grieving mom miss warning signs that would have foretold her son’s shooting spree? Dr. Phil asks the tough questions and takes a brutally candid look into this tragedy. Then, he speaks with Debora, a woman who says she took Robert in after he fell out with his parents. Find out what Debora says she witnessed just days before the teen’s murderous rampage. And, Jeff, a survivor of the Omaha mall shooting, faces off with Molly for the first time on Dr. Phil's stage. Plus, don’t miss the warning signs that your child is headed down a dangerous path. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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January 13, 2009, 6:38 pm CST

he was glamorized

Quote From: kjforce

I spent this afternoon in more tears, than the mother on the show did.  I live 2 miles away from where the murderer resided.  Maybe this is all too close to home for myself.  However I could not believe that she sat that close to one of the victims and did not shed a tear for any of the lost lives that her son took.  I know most people would cringe to hear me say this however I feel pain for the murderer.  He was a lost soul looking just to be accepted and loved.  The people who were suppose to be there abandoned him.  This in my opinion is all a result of child neglect, and that in itself is one of the largest forms of abuse.  After saying that I may seem like a hypocrit, but why are we glamorizing him, he has now accomplished his goal, by becoming famous, he has not only glamorized himself but has also glamorized his failure family.  I am absolutely livid that we bother to show his face or say his name or even worse yet to show his mother's face on national television.  If I was in her shoes and I was asked to leave the stage and I was listening to what that victim was saying I would have fell to my knees in tears from the guilt of my failures as a mother.  I watch Dr. Phil all the time, and today's show it seemed as those there was a huge black cloud hanging over the stage it seemed so dim, and dull.  Like I said maybe the reason for that is because it is all to close to home for all of us who live here in Omaha.  I think we would like for our City to have been shown on national television in a more positive spot light.  So please if anyone agree's with me let's not give that family the satisfaction of granting there son's last wish by making him famous.
This is exactly what I don't understand.  Why didn't dr.phil do a show about the problem the media is causing by showing so many images and talking about the people who take other lives when they take their own just to get recognition.  After my friends and I lost a friend in this tragedy we talked about how we could get the media to change their angle on these shootings.  We all need to tell the media and Dr. Phil enough is enough we don't need to hear about these killers if it's going to lead to more of the same!
 
January 15, 2009, 1:25 pm CST

Guns and ignorant/ ill-informed people

First off, I could only stand to read the first 3 pages of responses on this topic. In those 3 pages, I am very happy and also very surprised to see so many people speaking up for their 2nd Amendment rights. It seems like just a few months ago there would only be one or two people out there doing this, but for one reason or another, things are starting to look up on this issue.

 

That being said, there were also numerous people speaking out against guns and speaking up for harsher gun laws. To put it plainly, this makes no Fing sense whatsoever. Now, I won't say that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" because that's been said more ways than one, and for some reason the anti-gun advocates still don't get it. What I will say in place of this has also been said, but I think if you hear it enough, it may start to sink in a little. If you place a ban on "assault weapons" or any guns for that matter, or if you want harsher gun laws, it will only make it harder for the law abiding citizens to get them, and will put more guns in the hands of the criminals. Criminals DO NOT obey laws. Criminals DO NOT obey GUN laws. Therefore, if you tighten GUN laws, you are giving the bad guy a major advantage, and you're taking rights and inevitably lives, away from law abiding citizens.

 

I really don't understand how or why you people think that banning guns will just make them disappear. This is not how it works. Do you know how many guns are illegally manufactured? Do you have any idea how many guns are already in the hands of the public? A ban does not mean that someone comes to my house and takes my guns. A ban means, you can no longer buy these guns at gun stores. A ban on guns will not stop individual sales of firearms, and it sure as hell won't stop criminals from getting their hands on them. You know, I could be wrong, but aren't DRUGS banned? I believe they are, and wouldn't you know it, somehow people still get them. Weird, I know.

 

I know, it's a hard truth for you anti-gunners to wrap your minds around, but it is the truth weather you like it or not.

 

I guarantee you 100%, if someone in the mall had been carrying at the time of this shooting, the results would have been completely different, and the odds would have weighed a lot better for the good guys.

 

Alright, I'm done. I know this won't get through your thick heads anyway.

 

 
January 16, 2009, 7:02 pm CST

01/07 Omaha Mall Shooting: A Mother’s Guilt

Quote From: afken04

First off, I could only stand to read the first 3 pages of responses on this topic. In those 3 pages, I am very happy and also very surprised to see so many people speaking up for their 2nd Amendment rights. It seems like just a few months ago there would only be one or two people out there doing this, but for one reason or another, things are starting to look up on this issue.

 

That being said, there were also numerous people speaking out against guns and speaking up for harsher gun laws. To put it plainly, this makes no Fing sense whatsoever. Now, I won't say that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" because that's been said more ways than one, and for some reason the anti-gun advocates still don't get it. What I will say in place of this has also been said, but I think if you hear it enough, it may start to sink in a little. If you place a ban on "assault weapons" or any guns for that matter, or if you want harsher gun laws, it will only make it harder for the law abiding citizens to get them, and will put more guns in the hands of the criminals. Criminals DO NOT obey laws. Criminals DO NOT obey GUN laws. Therefore, if you tighten GUN laws, you are giving the bad guy a major advantage, and you're taking rights and inevitably lives, away from law abiding citizens.

 

I really don't understand how or why you people think that banning guns will just make them disappear. This is not how it works. Do you know how many guns are illegally manufactured? Do you have any idea how many guns are already in the hands of the public? A ban does not mean that someone comes to my house and takes my guns. A ban means, you can no longer buy these guns at gun stores. A ban on guns will not stop individual sales of firearms, and it sure as hell won't stop criminals from getting their hands on them. You know, I could be wrong, but aren't DRUGS banned? I believe they are, and wouldn't you know it, somehow people still get them. Weird, I know.

 

I know, it's a hard truth for you anti-gunners to wrap your minds around, but it is the truth weather you like it or not.

 

I guarantee you 100%, if someone in the mall had been carrying at the time of this shooting, the results would have been completely different, and the odds would have weighed a lot better for the good guys.

 

Alright, I'm done. I know this won't get through your thick heads anyway.

 

Well said, I couldn't agree more!   
 
January 16, 2009, 7:05 pm CST

01/07 Omaha Mall Shooting: A Mother’s Guilt

Quote From: onlyvictims

This is exactly what I don't understand.  Why didn't dr.phil do a show about the problem the media is causing by showing so many images and talking about the people who take other lives when they take their own just to get recognition.  After my friends and I lost a friend in this tragedy we talked about how we could get the media to change their angle on these shootings.  We all need to tell the media and Dr. Phil enough is enough we don't need to hear about these killers if it's going to lead to more of the same!
I know what you're saying, but honestly I can't even remember this kids first name.  Let alone his last.  Few will, thankfully.
 
January 20, 2009, 5:25 pm CST

Never Give up....

Quote From: alexa929904

I watched this show...in disgust and disbelief.  I have a 16 (almost 17) year old son who is Bi polar with psychotic tendencies. I never use to believe mental illness was real till i saw it first hand.  I knew Ty had problems back in 2nd grade... I tried everything I could to get him help.  When a 2nd grader is self harming and talking about suicide you stand by them, try everything in your power to help them. No one could give the same explanation for Tyler's behavior. It was either he was depressed or he had ADHD.  No one could agree. Tyler's dad and step mom made accusations about me and caused me so much grief, but as  mother you know what the truth is you fight for your children.  I had custody of my son, and he had weekend visitation with his father.  They blamed me for all of Tyler's problems. But as time went on, his father walked away and hasn't seen Tyler since he was 8.  You don't give up and walk away.  I never did.  I have fought to get my son help.  When Tyler was 13 my father passed away.  He was the only father Tyler truly knew.  He was a grandpas boy to the core, and between puberty and his death Tyler's downward spiral began.  He was cutting, and acting out.  He drew the most gruesome violent pictures, and poems that frightened you to read them. Finally I had him EPC'd. They ruled then that Tyler was Bi Polar with psychotic tendencies. I didn't know what else to do.Tyler has been in group homes and treatment facilities since February of 2006. He went from one to another stating he needed a higher level of care, but nobody wanted to fund it. He would do good finally after a few months of pushing every limit he could... and they would say he was ready to come home.  I wasn't ready, and I didn't think he was either, but we tried again.  In a 2 month period Tyler had caused so much grief it was insane.  He was expelled from school for writing a poem about killing a teacher and eating her. He was removed from my home for drawing pictures of myself and his sisters dead on the ground.  He was placed with my brother till he threatened my 7 year old nephew . He was kicked out of Vacation Bible school and Church for harassing a girl he was *friends* with.  So they moved him to a treatment center in Missouri.  Ironically I've been told its the same treatment center Robert went to.  For 6 months Tyler had all kinds of problems we were working on.  He went from hurting himself to lashing out at others. Family therapy was going good, but Tyler was still self harming and having so many issues. He was doing okay for 4 weeks, and once again Magellan says he's ready to go home. Magellan is the insurance part of Medicaid.  I have had quite a few therapists tell me that Tyler can not live out of a secure structured setting, and he is like a time bomb waiting to explode. They tell me Tyler has no impulse control, and that he doesn't understand cause and effect. No one wanted to pay for Tyler's treatment they all want me to take him back home.  But the thing Tyler needed the most was to remain at the treatment center, he was finally on a path to doing better. Instead they weren't going to fund any kind of placement.  They stated he should return home. When Tyler lived with me he set my garage on fire, he tried on a couple occasions to try and burn my house down while the girls and I were in it and he was at school.  I found numerous weapons in my ceiling tiles, door jams, hidden anywhere throughout my house.  When he was home the last time he would choke and try to smother his little sister who still loves him, but like me is afraid of him. Well.... they place him in a group home in Omaha first since I refused to take him home.  I have to protect my little girls. It was a dive.  The ceiling leaked on his bed. He slept on a mattress on the floor.  There were prostitutes on the corner, and a staff member would smoke pot with some of the boys.  State went in and shut them down, so once again Tyler was moved.  Now hes at a group home in a small town, and all his problems have been getting worse.  He is getting more and more violent, and doing some strange things (sleeping under his mattress etc..) Social Service has the goal for Tyler of independent living... and I think they are absolutely crazy. He is on so many medications, and no one thinks hes getting the help he needs.  The scarier part is no one is helping.  My caseworkers hands seem to be tied by funding. The judge actually told me that Tyler seemed to just have a few *quirky* things about him. His therapist believes hes in the wrong placement, but what can you do without funding???  I then find out staff has forgotten on 5 occasions in the past 6 weeks to give him his Bi Polar medication.  The remember all of his other meads, just forget the most important one. I spent Christmas with my son, and it was nice.  Then things changed for the worse.  There is a boy who is in Ty's group home that he doesn't get along with.  For some reason they were placed together last weekend doing chores.  An argument began, and so to my understanding a supervisor tried to intervene... next thing they new Tyler swung his broom in a Axe chopping motion at the back of the boys head, and staff tried to jump between.  The broom hit the staff's hand instead.  Now his hand is broken.  So... once again they are looking for a new placement for my son.  I have fought and fought for my son, but i don't know what else to do.  Hes almost 17. He's a sweet boy, who can be gentle and loving.  He is so super smart, and funny but he has a very dark side to him. The hardest part for me is watching stories like the Omaha Mall and Virgina Tech knowing that could be my son.  No one seems to want to help him.  Its like all the warning signs a red flags are screaming at everyone, and nothing is done.  He broke a mans hand with a broom because he heard voices in his head taunting him.  What more is it going to take??  I don't want to be a mother apologizing to a family because my son destroyed their lives.  Molly should be ashamed of herself... that's her son You never give up on your children!
I have a 19 year old that won't take his meds and his aggression is getting worst.  I have to evict him by law and have a restraining order put out on him for my daughter and my safety.  His medicaid psych doctor and therapist both tell me I should just give up and let him pay the consequence.  I don't want to give up but for the safety of it I have to do this.  Inside I pray that he will see the light and get the help he needs.  I feel for you because  your situation sounds worst than his did when he was put in La Junta CO.  However, he used to tell me of partying with the staff members!  I think he is acting out because he is upset over the fact that I put him in a boys home for 6 years of his life.  I know how you feel about seeing stories that make you think that it could be your son someday.  I cried to my son one day and told him that and he doesn't want to hurt me my feelings one day and the next day he will rip my heart out without a thought.  No matter if he has a chemical imbalance or not, it still saddens me that I am powerless in his decisions.  My 21 year old daughter is what keeps me going because she is totally opposite and has been there for me when I get upset over things he does.  I will always keep hoping that things for him will get better and I will always have hope for a better life for him.  I guess that is all we can do until the government or anyone comes to their senses and helps the Tyler's and the Josh's of todays world.
 
January 29, 2009, 7:45 pm CST

Omaha mall shooting

Who puts their 4 year old in a mental institution? He didn't ask to be born, and he DESERVED parents who wanted the job. I would have had more respect for this so called :mother: (remember, even alley cats can reproduce) if she had given her baby up for adoption, realizing she couldn't give him what he needed, then by being selfish, and deciding she'd give it a whack. This child couldn't have been screaming any louder than if he'd stood on top of a mountain! EVERYONE needs and deserves respect, a parent who puts them first, and gives them proper guidance. Isn't that why we have parents? If not that, then what are we here for?
 
January 29, 2009, 8:04 pm CST

01/07 Omaha Mall Shooting: A Mother’s Guilt

Quote From: gaileckert

As a parent I've always thought how horrible it must be to have a child commit such an act--a school shooting, killing a celebity, or what happened in this case.  I'll never forget the 911  from the shooter's father when Columbine occurred, stating he thought his son was involved.  I'm so glad Dr. Phil decided to take a look at this issue; however, I wish he could have spoken to other parents/relatives of children involved in some of these crimes because one of the first things I noticed when all the school shootings where happening was that almost all these kids came from middle-to-uppermiddle class families in rural (non-intercity) areas.  This tragedy in Omaha was almost the opposite of most of the cases we've seen in terms of location and family background.  That's not to say that uppermiddle class families don't have divorice, drug problems, or mental illness, but on the surface, with the except of VA, kids in these other shootings didn't appear to fit that profile.  This case almost appears to be exactly the history of someone who you could expect to act out in this way.

I hope if Dr. Phil has the chance to look at this again he can get some input from the families of Little Rock, Springfield, and Columbine so we can get a better understanding of the "hidden" time bombs and what we can to do to help stop them.

Thank you.

Good luck with getting the Columbine shooters (Kliebolds and Harris's) parents to speak. I also live in Littleton, CO and they have NEVER said a word to the media. Their kids were making bombs in their garages, but they won't help society try to understand what happened by speaking to anyone; not the police, not doctors, not researchers, and not the media. If we do nothing, nothing will change!
 
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